Katy Perry’s Dad: “Katy Is A Child Of The Devil”

Katy perry Illuminati | Satanic influence in music

Katy Perry’s father, Pastor Keith Hudson, is now speaking out against his daughter’s sinful career.

Pastor Keith Hudson, the father of pop music mega-star Katy Perry, recently preached several sermons in which he has shown regret over the sinful and satanic influence of his daughter’s music on the young people of the world. The UK Sun obtained footage of a recent sermon in which Hudson called Perry a “devil child” and showed footage of her negative influence, exposing the sinful rebellion her music promotes.

“They ask how can I preach if I produce a girl who sang about kissing another girl?” said Hudson of Keith Hudson Ministries, who admitted attending the singer’s sell-out concerts are a source of contention for him and his wife, fellow religious preacher, Mary Hudson. (source).

In our article Katy Perry’s “E.T.” Lyrics And Video — Alien Deception Strikes Again, Beginning and End analyzed the satanic message behind Perry’s hit song E.T. in which she makes references to having intimate relations with a being who “could be the devil.” The song was just one example of the satanic and sinful spirit of Perry’s music. After starting her career as a contemporary Christian artist under her real name, Katy Hudson, Perry then switched to pop music and its lure of fame, wealth and media power. Perry’s initial hit song, I Kissed A Girl was an ode to lesbian experimentation that became a smash hit among the teen and pre-teen set. For a woman who claims to be Christian to make a song that is so blatantly promoting sin is a sign of a person who does not fear God nor have any concern for his judgments. And few things can blind a person more from seeing God’s ways than the lure of money.

The Bible says: “But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.” (1 Timothy 6:9-10).

 

Perry clearly erred from the faith by promoting homosexuality to the world and in particular children. As the years went on, Perry rose to multi-platinum status, becoming one of the most successful singers of all-time. All the while her music continued to celebrate sexual promiscuity and rebellion against authority. Perry also became renowned for wearing skimpy outfits and even appearing in naked in a video. Rather than sharing her “Christian upbringing” with the world, she instead chose to lead it into more sinful rebellion against The Lord. Her are some lyrics from her hit song: “Teenage Dream”:
No regrets, just love
We can dance until we die
You and I, we’ll be young forever

(Chorus)
You make me
Feel like I’m living a
Teenage dream
The way you turn me on
I can’t sleep
Let’s run away and
Don’t ever look back
Don’t ever look back
I’ma get your heart racing
In my skin-tight jeans
Be your teenage dream tonight
Let you put your hands on me
In my skin-tight jeans
Be your teenage dream tonight (source).

 

A song clearly targeted at teenagers and children, Perry sings of turning guys on and sexual sin. And in it she preaches a message of “no regrets” – emphasizing that there is no need for repentance or feeling bad about one’s behavior. The Bible says of sex outside of marriage:

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. — 1 Corinthians 6:9-10.

Katy perry Illuminati | Satanic influence in music

Perry, here arriving at the Nickelodeon Kid’s Choice Awards, has made sexual promiscuity and skimpy outfits her trademark.

 

 

Note that Scripture lists fornication, which is sex outside of marriage, first. Sexual lust is one of the strongest forces of temptation society faces. Having celebrities sing about it in their music while dressing in provocative fashion only further engrained it in the mind of the audience. This is why the Bible says: ”flee fornication.” But thanks to stars like Perry, pop culture has made fleeing harder than ever as entertainers happily promote sexual sin in exchange for the promises of wealth.

As we noticed before, Perry even referenced selling her soul to the devil in an interview:

Perhaps this is why Pastor Hudson now feels regret over his daughter’s career:

“I was at a concert of Katy’s where there were 20,000. I’m watching this generation, and they were going at it. It was almost like church,” Keith said. “I stood there and wept and kept on weeping and weeping. They’re loving and worshipping the wrong thing.” (source).

Hudson and his wife have run Keith Hudson Ministries for 32 years. According to their Statement of Faith they preach a a brand of charismatic Christianity with a host of unbiblical practices like speaking in tongues (intelligible, gibberish tongues, not the speaking of actual foreign languages as done in the Bible), faith healing, prophecy and “working miracles.” When a pastor takes the position that he is a “modern day prophet” he is proclaiming to receive new revelations from God that are not in the Bible. This opens the door for all sorts of heretical beliefs and activities because the pastor can simply claim, “God just told me to say this.” Of course Scripture makes it clear that there are no more prophets today:

“God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;” – Hebrews 1:1-2.

 

Prior to the birth of Jesus Christ on Earth, God chose prophets to take His Word to the world. But today God speaks to us through Jesus Christ, The Word of God. So the Bible contains the full revelation from The Lord. Hudson’s doctrine adds to this with what is often called “fresh revelation.” So Perry with a foundation that was part Biblical, part man-made doctrine.

This would not be the first time a celebrity dad has voiced concern about the satanic influence over their child. Billy Ray Cyrus, father of Disney Channel TV star and singer Miley Cyrus, aka Hannah Montana, conducted an interview in which he said his family was under attack by Satan and blamed his daughter’s handlers for leading her career down a sinful path.

Pray for Hudson to continue to take a stand against the career path of his daughter and to turn to Biblical Christianity and repentance. And pray for Perry and her Christian walk, or for her salvation if she is unsaved. Lord willing, hearing from the singer’s own parents may wake up parents all over the world to start exerting their own spiritual leadership in their homes to lead their children to know God instead of being so familiar with Satan’s way and the music and entertainment of his minions.

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Comments

  1. tentimes better says:

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    • James Curtis says:

      This entire article has completely taking things out of context. The song and video ET has nothing to do with having sex with Satan. It speaks about sex between Extra Terrestrials, its a supposition of how that would be like. In the interview hen she says she sold her soul to devil, obviously she is being sarcastic. Sarcastic humor anyone?

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      • You are blinded….Her actions speak clearly…….Young girls are being brainwashed and led to sin……

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      • there is nothing humorous about the devil.

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      • Well obviously you missed the lyric in the song that says “maybe you’re the devil” would that change you’re mind?

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      • Mr Curtis,
        You need to get educated. ETs are derived from the works of Aleicester Crowley who contacted a demon named Lam. His drawing of this entity is what the form of Hollywood’s Aliens and ETs are based on. Crowley (who called himself The Great Beast and was idolized by pop music industry as their muse/god- Sgt Pepper album cover among many) was also famed for trying to conjure the Antichrist into the physical realm. You may not believe in any of it- but those in power do,

        Perry’s video promotes sex with deomons- formerly called incubus/succubus and at one point in her ET vid, some graphic editor photoshopped the slit of a serpent into her eye. Which she probably had no idea was done- she is being used by Illuminati. But having free will- she does agree.
        Fear mongering and ‘exaggeration’ are not the problem. Ignorance is. You dont even know how very little you know. And that is NOT bliss when our society is in the state it is, due to such willful blindness. Katy’s demon ditty is just the very tip of the spear.

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      • Mr Curtis,
        You need to get educated. ETs are derived from the works of Aleicester Crowley who contacted a demon named Lam. His drawing of this entity is what the form of Hollywood’s Aliens and ETs are based on. Crowley (who called himself The Great Beast and was idolized by pop music industry as their muse/god- Sgt Pepper album cover among many) was also famed for trying to conjure the Antichrist into the physical realm. You may not believe in any of it- but those in power do,

        Perry’s video promotes sex with deomons- formerly called incubus/succubus and at one point in her ET vid, some graphic editor photoshopped the slit of a serpent into her eye. Which she probably had no idea was done- she is being used by Illuminati. But having free will- she does agree.
        Fear mongering and ‘exaggeration’ are not the problem. Ignorance is. You dont even know how very little you know. And that is NOT bliss when our society is in the state it is, due to such willful blindness. Katy’s demon ditty is just the very tip of the spear.

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      • Stuck In Cali says:

        And just what do you think ET’s are?? They are none other than “fallen angels”.

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      • Hurray! Someone has sense and is reasonable.

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  2. Although 90% of what this article says is true.. 10% is not true. I know from personal experience that prophets do exist! The Lord is still doing miracles and working thru people. This is the ony complaint i have of the article and that i will say is completely false. Your either.given a revolation from God, the devil or somethimg.u made.up

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    • Hi Vic,

      Thanks for your comments. I 100% believe in miracles and that God can speak to us. If you are a born again Christian and feel convicted about sin, that is God, The Holy Spirit speaking to you. When you read Scripture and gain understanding, you are receiving the The Word of God. Thus God is speaking to you. That is different from being a prophet of God in the Biblical sense. A prophet speaks to God directly and audibly with a message for all humanity for all time. The words of a prophet are equivalent to the Bible itself because they are directly delivering the very Word of God. That is the type of “prophet” I am speaking of.

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      • I apologize if this has been addressed already.

        Ephesians 4:11-12

        And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers, For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

        I think we’re all just thinking different things when we think of the term “prophet”, but it DOES use the term in the above verse. It does not seem to be controversial that teachers still exist, for some reason–that nobody is arguing about THAT implies that we are simply making inferences.

        Here is one quote:

        <>

        With all due respect (we are all enjoying the fruit of your work, so please believe that the LAST thing any of us want is to offend you–we’re just trying to learn, Sir), what you consider to be a prophet and what Ephesians and the Bible does may or may not be the same thing. Your other comment is below.

        This is your other comment:

        ****

        Please note that I do not want to confuse this with someone receiving a revelation from God about Scripture, a pastor being inspired by God to preach a certain sermonhaving a dream about Jesus and getting saved, encountering an angel who appeared as a human who gave them a special witness to believe or things of that nature. These things Biblically, can all still happen. Similarly with miraculous healing. But being a Biblical prophet from Scripture no longer still appears to take place.

        Why is every prophecy equivalent to scripture? Are there some prophecies that are not in scripture (think of the prophets who didn’t bow the knee to Baal and their prophecies which we know nothing about). That those are not scripture would appear to at least partially contradict your point. It is not as though every prophecy necessarily adds to (or removes from) the Book of Revelation (as you yourself noted in the above quote). That also sounds like an inference or at least an assumption. Perhaps some more detail would help.

        I am learning a lot from your website and thank you for all your hard work. All we’re trying to do, really, in all these comments, is return the favor, I think. Before you reply please think of our comments in that way.

        Again, the verse above would imply that prophets still exist (as do teachers, pastors, etc), since the saints are still being perfected. Which is an assumption of my own.

        That they used past tense in the scriptures you mention seems to indicate that the OT prophets had performed their function in the past. This is straightforward since centuries separated some of the OT prophets from the Book of Acts. But the extra step that there are no more today sounds like an assumption that does not necessarily follow (to me).

        Which is why I appreciate your sentence the message “seems to be”, which implies the acknowledgment of an assumption. All I’m saying is that, maybe you are right, but maybe you are not.

        But why would we need teachers but not prophets (assuming that the former are still necessary)?

        And why is the latter more controversial?

        It is a compliment that we’re all focusing more on scripture (than what these pop singers are doing), which is what I imagine the Editor wants to help us do more of.

        In closing, I think what the Editor is getting at is that Jesus is our High Priest, so prophets are now different from, say, Old Testament prophets. That’s what it sounds like to me, at least. I apologize if I am misreading.

        But what the many commentators are saying (and what the verse in Ephesians says) is that that does not remove the fact that they are BOTH prophets.

        Or else, it is not clear from Ephesians 4:11 why pastors and teachers must persist (I’m assuming they do) but not prophets.

        Personally, my thoughts (from reading the website) is that a lot of fakery is going on in the name of God, which is unfortunate. But God’s real prophets are still out there, I’m sure of it!

        Blessings to all.

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        • Just saw this…

          But Scripture acknowledges these prophets as coming to an end and serving as the “foundation” of the church of which all born again Christians become members:

          “18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.”- Ephesians 18:21

          The scripture notes the church built on the foundation of apostles and prophets, but not that the prophets have come to an end. It does not actually say that. Otherwise it sounds as though everyone (including you and me) was already saved at that point…

          The key word to me is “groweth”, which implies present tense…

          God bless you Sir. I realize I’m commenting a lot, but you must realize it’s only because you’re inspiring us all to discuss the Word more.

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          • Hi io,

            Since prophets exist today, who are they? This is another question I keep asking, because I have yet to encounter one. Although I have encountered people who claim to be. if you could provide examples of who they are and some of their prophecies it would be much appreciated because I do not want to make assumptions about who/what you believe in.

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            • If God no longer speaks to his people, why even pray or ask for guidance? God didnt disappear 2000 yrs ago. His Holy Spirit is still with us.

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              • Hi Bint,

                This is a great question. The Lord indeed speaks to us through His Word and His Spirit.

                What I am referring to are audible conversations with God where He is audibly speaking to you from Heaven. That is how prophets in Scripture spoke to God. Do you know anyone who does this today? Many people claim to. Benny Hinn claims to have had hundreds of literal, audible conversations with God. Do you believe him? Todd Bentley claims to have gone to Heaven. Do you believe him?

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                • believer of Jesus Christ says:

                  Yes.. there is still a prophet. Prophet sudha who prophecies the yolanda in the philippines and the tsunami in Japan. You cannot say that God is not giving any visions to forsee in the future for it is God, you cannot measure how He thinks. What can He do.

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            • davidnrobyn says:

              Prophets are not only “foretellers” of events; that is only a small part of the prophet’s ministry. They are also “forth-tellers” of the Word, which is their primary ministry. Their function in the Body is to call people to repentance and righteousness. Read through all the prophets, particularly the minor prophets. You’ll see that their major theme is: Repent! The prophetic gift is relatively uncommon compared with such as ministry, helps, mercy, giving, etc. They’re like a little spice or seasoning in a dish. A little goes a long way. They are frequently very uncomfortable people to be around. They don’t cut sin or sinners any slack. They don’t “go along to get along”. I’ve known a few prophets, definitely. None have foretold the future, except mine if I don’t change my ways! :-) Blessings to you.

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              • Hi Davidnrobyn,

                As I already said, I completely believe in the gift of prophesy in the sense of being lead by the Holy Spirit to rightly divide and teach Scripture. And it exists today. Absolutely. But as for people who have audible conversations with God speaking from Heaven, I do not believe in it, and I still have yet to hear any names of these people or their specific prophecies (since we should all be learning them as God’s Word spoken from Heaven is clearly equivalent with the Holy Bible).

                Although with respect to the minor prophets I will disagree in one area – their books are packed with end time prophecies. Haggai, Zephaniah and Joel are just a few examples of minor prophets who indeed prophesied a lot of events to come. God bless.

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        • Hi io,

          Thanks for your comments. You are correct, I am trying to make a distinction with the New Testament term “prophet” because it does gave more than one meaning. Technically, a prophet can be someone, by inspiration of the Holy Spirit, who explains and rightly divides scripture to teach others. Of course this type of person still exists today.

          But as I have tried to make clear the prophet I do NOT believe exists today is the person who audibly hears from God and has real, audible conversations with The Lord, just like the prophets of the Old testament. I absolutely do not believe that this person/people exists today.

          As for Ephesians 4:11

          And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

          I believe that is talking about what The Lord Jesus Christ did at the time of His Ascension into Heaven in the first century. Remember, Ephesians chapters 2 and 3 reference the foundation and start of the first century church. And I acknowledged that there were real prophets of God in the New testament (Agabus being an example). But we soon see them fade away and no longer mentioned. The reason why pastors and teachers still exist today is because their work is not based on supernatural impartation of the Holy Spirit. Whereas a prophet is.

          We also have the issue that whatever interpretation we make of a passage must harmonize with other Scripture. So I will ask how does your belief reconcile with Hebrews 1?

          God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; -Hebrews 1:1-2.

          The clear reading of this Scirpture seems to to state that God no longer uses prophets to communicate His message to the people. He speaks to us by His Son, The Prophet, Jesus Christ. What do you read here?

          Thanks again for your comments. These types of discussion that make us dig deeper into Scripture and try to gain better understanding is what edifying the body is all about. God bless.

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      • KATY IS A MEDIOCRE PHONEY MEDIOCRE IN EVERY WAY LOOKS TALENT MUSIC .
        SHE IS A SELL OUT WHO CAN BE BOUGHT FOR 5 MIN OF “ADORATION” FROM A BUNCH OF
        IDIOTS – THESE SAME IDIOTS WILL KICK HER TO THE CURB IN A YR OR TWO WHEN SHE GETS OLDER AND A NEW PHONEY SELL OUT COMES ALONG TO TAKE HER PLACE.
        I CANT STAND HER AND I AM REALLY SURPRISED THAT SHE MADE IT BIG AS SHE IS JUST
        A BIG NOTHIN.

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      • You can’t pick and chose scripture…that is what the church has done for so long and that is why we don’t see the Lord’s mighty works as the 1st century did. Also be very very careful about what you speak against the Holy Spirit….I use to say what your saying until I experienced it and God removes the self righteous and pride from my life. I found out that God is much wiser and bigger than I am and when I received the baptism of Holy Spirit there was a boldness for God that I never had and could not stop witnessing to people…just like Acts . I heard of services where tongues were spoken and other nationalities were there…it was a sign for them. I believe there are 2 different tongues…the one on Pentecost where everyone heard in their tongue and also the evidence of the Holy Spirit…God Bless and I am glad you wrote this on Katy, Just wish you would leave your doctrine and comments about a godly father out of it..

        http://www.charismamag.com/spirit/supernatural/1877-the-miracle-spiritual-language

        Ephesians 4:11-16

        King James Version (KJV)

        11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

        12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

        13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

        14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

        15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

        16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

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    • There are generally two types of prophecy: fore-telling and forth-telling and the prophets of the Old Testament did both. Fore-telling is exactly what it says it is…it is a predictive prophecy that usually warned the people of Israel that their recalcitrant behavior was not pleasing to God and that they would be punished in some way or another. Forth-telling on the other hand, is and was, not necessarily anything other than speaking the truth of the Word of God into one’s contemporary culture. A website like this can be the manifestation of prophecy because it speaks forth the truth of God’s Word into the lives of those who are reading it.

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    • God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;” – Hebrews 1:1-2.

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    • Prophecy is a gift from the Holy spirit spoken of in the Book of Acts…so obviously prophecy as not ended with Jesus….you are confusing NEW revelation with prophecy….Revelation was fulfilled in Jesus Christ but the gift of prophecy and being a prophet are still valid roles in the Church…..also you mention “gibberish” tongues – different from the tongues in the Book of Acts which were actual languages…however St. Paul speaks about tongues and says, “though I speak with he tongues of men and of ANGELS….” in Corinthians…obviously there is another gift of tongues that is angelic, not human, and this is what you often hear when you attend a spirit-filled church…tongues of angels is usually a Praising of God and many times of word of knowledge, healing, or scripture will be given after a time of worshipping tongues which builds up and edifies the church…Please get your information correct before writing things that are inaccurate! Thank you!

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      • Paul was, wait for it…

        REBUKING the Corinthians, not validating gibberistic nonsense.

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        • I respectfully disagree with you Billsey…..explain what St. Paul meant when he said that he “speaks with the tongues of men and of angels…?” there are two different types of tongues…it is not gibberish but a heavenly language…..there is always an interpretation of a scripture that is given….people hearing Russian, or Chinese, or German might think it “gibberish” if they didn’t understand it…same with the angelic language.

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          • Hi Angela,

            The answer to your question is found in Scripture. All throughout the Bible is demonstrated that angels speak real, ethnic languages (I.e., Hebrew). You will not find any instance where an angel speaks to a human and the human cannot understand. So from a purely Biblical standpoint, this verse does not support the idea of speaking gibberish or noises as “tongues.”

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            • Perhaps when angels come on the earth sent by God they will speak our human language but there is indeed an angelic tongue that St. Paul very specifically speaks about…also praying in tongues is a way of worshipping God beyond the confines of our human mind….it is an authentic gift of the Holy Spirit….I was praying in tongues with a woman who was a Jewish believer in Jesus and afterwards she began to cry and asked where I had learned to speak Hebrew since she had heard me pray, in Hebrew, the Shamah….”the Lord our God,the Lord is one”…..I do not speak or have any knowledge of Hebrew…another friend did not believe in the gift of tongues and while at a charismatic prayer meeting he heard a Spanish woman standing next to him, praying in perfect Gaelic which he spoke….so the question is, was I prayng in Hebrew or was this woman “hearing” me in Hebrew as an interpretation of the angelic tongues I was praying in? You can’t just throw this out as it is one of the gifts of the Holy spirit specifically talked about in the New Testament and a sign of the Baptism with he Holy Spirit, not just for 2000 years ago but for today a well.

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    • Prophecy is a gift from the Holy spirit spoken of in the Book of Acts…so obviously prophecy as not ended with Jesus….you are confusing NEW revelation with prophecy….Revelation was fulfilled in Jesus Christ but the gift of prophecy and being a prophet are still valid roles in the Church…..also you mention “gibberish” tongues – different from the tongues in the Book of Acts which were actual languages…however St. Paul speaks about tongues and says, “though I speak with he tongues of men and of ANGELS….” in Corinthians…obviously there is another gift of tongues that is angelic, not human, and this is what you often hear when you attend a spirit-filled church…tongues of angels is usually a Praising of God and many times of word of knowledge, healing, or scripture will be given after a time of worshipping tongues which builds up and edifies the church…Please get your information correct before writing things that are inaccurate! Thank you!

        (Quote)

    • Prophecy is a gift from the Holy spirit spoken of in the Book of Acts…so obviously prophecy as not ended with Jesus….you are confusing NEW revelation with prophecy….Revelation was fulfilled in Jesus Christ but the gift of prophecy and being a prophet are still valid roles in the Church…..also you mention “gibberish” tongues – different from the tongues in the Book of Acts which were actual languages…however St. Paul speaks about tongues and says, “though I speak with he tongues of men and of ANGELS….” in Corinthians…obviously there is another gift of tongues that is angelic, not human, and this is what you often hear when you attend a spirit-filled church…tongues of angels is usually a Praising of God and many times of word of knowledge, healing, or scripture will be given after a time of worshipping tongues which builds up and edifies the church…Please get your information correct before writing things that are inaccurate! Thank you!

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  3. Hi, I would like to thank you for all the articles you are writing, it is very helpful but there are some mistakes.

    The Word of God says:

    (1 Corinthians 12:8-10) “For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; {9} To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; {10} To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:”

    (Romans 12:5-6) “So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. {6} Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;”

    (Jeremiah 33:3) “Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.”

    (Acts 2:17-18) “And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: {18} And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:”

    God gives us the gift of prophecy, and God reveals hidden things in dreams or visions.

    Blessings in Jesus’ name.

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    • Hi AF,

      Thanks for your comments. I think this is a very good discussion to have. Let’s look at the scriptures you cited:

      “(1 Corinthians 12:8-10) “For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; {9} To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; {10} To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:””

      Yes the gift of prophecy existed at the time of the writing of this epistle and in the first century church, for example, Agabus. These were real prophets, who spoke directly to God and delivered a message of revelation never heard before (i.e., predicting future events). But Scripture acknowledges these prophets as coming to an end and serving as the “foundation” of the church of which all born again Christians become members:

      “18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.”- Ephesians 18:21

      The Apostle Peter continues this theme of prophets being a “past tense” part of the church in 2 Peter 3:

      This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: 2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour: 2 Peter 3:1-2.

      Jude continues the same theme in his epistle:

      Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. – Jude 1:3.

      The message seems to be that we have now received the revelation of the faith and there will be no new revelations coming from prophets in the future. In the book of Revelation, The Lord Jesus Himself gives a very stern warning not to add to “the prophecy of this book.” As I said in an earlier comment, the words of a Biblical prophet are on par and equal to the bible itself. This is how serious claiming to be a prophet is.

      Please note that I do not want to confuse this with someone receiving a revelation from God about Scripture, a pastor being inspired by God to preach a certain sermonhaving a dream about Jesus and getting saved, encountering an angel who appeared as a human who gave them a special witness to believe or things of that nature. These things Biblically, can all still happen. Similarly with miraculous healing. But being a Biblical prophet from Scripture no longer still appears to take place.


      (Romans 12:5-6) “So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. {6} Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;”

      I believe there there is a “prophecy” that is the preaching of the word. Being able to open the Scriptures and righlty divide and proclaim them. This gift still exists today.


      (Jeremiah 33:3) “Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.”

      Let’s look at the verse in context, because it highlights what I mean when I say “Biblical prophet”:

      “33 Moreover the word of the Lord came unto Jeremiah the second time, while he was yet shut up in the court of the prison, saying, 2 Thus saith the Lord the maker thereof, the Lord that formed it, to establish it; the Lord is his name;3 Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.”

      Jeremiah is the perfect example of a prophet for this discussion. God audibly spoke to Him. He had literal, audible conversations directly with God. We see this in his very first conversation with The Lord:

      “Then the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, 5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. 6 Then said I, Ah, Lord God! behold, I cannot speak: for I am a child. 7 But the Lord said unto me, Say not, I am a child: for thou shalt go to all that I shall send thee, and whatsoever I command thee thou shalt speak.”

      Biblical prophets had actual conversations with God where they could hear him. They were given specific missions and their words were used as our Holy Scripture. I do not now of anyone who fulfills these characteristics today. I believe as Scriptures state, the apostles and prophets serves as the foundation of the church we have today.

      (Acts 2:17-18) “And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: {18} And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:”


      Ironically, you are quoting some of my favorite passages in the Bible. Praise The Lord. We have to remember Peter’s introduction to this phenomenal sermon:

      But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: 15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. 16 But THIS is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

      That specific speaking of tongues at Pentecost on that very day was the fulfillment of the prophecy in Joel chapter 2. Peter proclaims that clearly. And then he goes on to preach that the Crucified Jesus was in fact the Son of God and Messiah. Which is what the apostles repeatedly did as their part in establishing the foundation of the church.

      The prophets pointed ahead to Jesus. The Apostles pointed back to Jesus. But now, with the full revelation of God with us, The Lord speaks to us through His Son:

      ” God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;” – Hebrews 1:1-2.

      God bless and I truly welcome your thoughts on this topic.

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      • From what I’ve seen with my own eyes and from what I’ve heard with my own ears… Prophecy still exists. God is the same as He was yeaterday. My dad is a pastor and he has the gift of interpreting dreams. The Lord also speaks to Him and me. God also gave me the spirit of descernment. Ive been around 3 pastors that have prophesized to me and i have seen it come to pass.. Also the over seer of my church speaks to the Lord as if God was in the room in the flesh. God has revealed things unto him that no man or demon would know about me.. just thoughts ive had. Just God and God alone would know this type of info (Last time i rmbrd lol demons cant read minds) .. God is still working miracles and using people. I have seen these things with my own eyes. God bless

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        • You should consider comparing your experiences with Scripture not the other way around. I actually am a member at a Charismatic church. Unfortunately I do not agree with what is being preached. It involves twisting scripture and misinterpretation. I have experienced all the same things you have and I was blinded. Then one day I actually read the Word for what it plainly says; for example, “tongues” in Greek is glossalalia. A specific language of a specific dialect, eg southern English.

          Now I assume your church practices these tongues. Is it just gibberish or do you understand them?

          Acts 2:8-11 Clearly shows them as a specific language that is spoken but not known to the speaker. “Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language? Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!”

          Now if your church claims the Holy Spirit is allowing them to speak in these tongues without interpretation and they are not in a specific language and only 2 or 3 speakers at a time, those are false tongues. Then obviously if they claim the same spirit is allowing them to prophesy, it could not be the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit would never contradict scripture.

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          • Nah.. I think you have me misunderstood.. I’m not defending Katy Perrys dad in any way shape or form. If he was a real Christian , he wouldve told her she was wrong from the very beginning. Going to her shows is literally supporting and encouraging her to continue to do wrong. As far as his church goes. Thats wrong too. How can you teach people to speak in tongues?!?!?!?!?!?!? To answer your statement.. My church is non denominational. We dont take anything from the bible and we also dont add anything to it. We speak the true word of God. You said I should compare my experiences with scripture.. not the other way around?? Honestly, that threw me waaay off because I never did switch things up. Prophets still exist today whether people believe they do or not. Also false prophets exist. The bible even warns about false prophets during these last times. Last time i checked satan works backwards. Why would there be a fake and God not provide a real?? Ya Christ is real and the Lord still speaks threw people. Like I said.. I’ve seen this things spoken to me with my own eyes and ears. The Pastor who is head over my parents (my parents are pastors) Speaks to God like I’ve never seen before. The Lord speaks to him instantly. He is so close with God that its amazing. Last time I checked demons cant read minds. They cant read or know my thoughts! I checked him out for myself to see if what i heard was true and how the Lord revealed Himself threw that pastor was with out a doubt real. I was going threw things that I never spoke of. and God revealed Himself threw the Pastor in ways that u cant doubt the Lord is real. There is noo pleace in the bible that says PROPHETS DO NOT EXIST. I think you are misunderstanding the scriptures. Pray and rebuke the devil when you read it. lol I have a personal relationship with Christ and Im no “babe” the Lord has blessed me with a discerning spirit. I can see whats going on. Rebuke the devil, his attacks and retaliations in Jesus name and ask God to give you knowledge wisdom and understanding when you read

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        • I’m sorry to have offended you but I never said prophets do not exist. You need to examine the definition you are using for a prophet. Today a “prophet” is anyone declaring God’s word. Literally declaring what the Bible says is “prophesying”. 1 Corinthians 12:10 and Romans 12:6 the Greek words used in these passages for “prophesying” literally mean to “speak forth the divine will.”
          In the Bible God always had a purpose for these gifts, not to just make us feel good. Why did He use the gift of prophecy? He used it to deliver messages of truth yet known to the listeners. The gift of proclaiming new revelation passed away when the Lord Jesus had the last word in Revelation.

          The gift of prophecy in the sense of declaring God’s already known truth is still alive and well. Plus if someone claims to have a prophecy from God, if they fail to deliver a 100% not missing a SINGLE SOLITARY detail. If they did in the Old Testament that was punishable by DEATH. So God takes it so seriously.

          I forgot to mention my church is non-denominational as well but it is still Charismatic which is from the Greek word Kharisma which means gifts.

          It is dangerous to rely on a mans words to gain faith in a personal prophecy.
          Which the concept of personal prophecy is really unbiblical. It resembles so much of today’s mediums and fortunetellers or psychics.

          Does God use people to deliver messages, yes, I will never doubt God does that but we should never place our faith in what a man says. I have the Holy Spirit and the Bible, I need not a prophet to give any guidance or revelation to me.

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          • Lol its cool… Im noy offended. I just think we are misunderstood. I thiught a prophet was also some1 that the Lord uses to warn or to tell abiut something to come. Other than that tho.. lol I think we are on the same page

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        • Hi Vic,

          Thanks for your response. I want to point out that you are basing your belief on personal experience and feelings. This is not the basis of Christian belief. Our eyes, ears and hearts can certainly deceive us. The basis of all Christian belief is the Word of God, as in The Holy Bible. And Scripture tells us that Satan masquerades as an angel of light. Scripture tells us that our hearts are deceitful “above all things” and desperately wicked. This means that our hearts lie us to us more than anything in this world. Again, this is not from, but from the Word of our Lord.

          But I will now address some of your specific comments:

          ” Prophecy still exists. God is the same as He was yesterday.”

          God has interacted with humanity in different ways all throughout the course of history. And He does this at His will and pleasure. We have once needed a temple and a high priest to access God. Now the veil is rent and we can approach the throne boldly with our prayers and supplications. Has God changed? Not in His nature, but certainly in the way He has chosen to interact with humanity thanks to the work of Jesus Christ on the cross.

          Similarly God in the past used prophets but now speaks to us by Jesus Christ:

          “God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;” – Hebrews 1:1-2.

          How do you interpret this clear Scripture?

          “My dad is a pastor and he has the gift of interpreting dreams. The Lord also speaks to Him and me.”

          Again, as I said earlier, when I am talking about a prophet, I mean someone who is having audible conversations with God. Is this what you claim you are doing??

          Ive been around 3 pastors that have prophesized to me and i have seen it come to pass.

          Divination, or telling the future, is something that those in the occult have the power to do. Again, I will go to Scripture. Let’s go to the example of Joseph in Genesis 44. Joseph had the gift of dream interpetation and made it absolutely clear that God actually told him the meaning of the dreams. Additionally, he was able to communicate with The Lord on other occasion giving contributing to his great fame in Egypt. Notice what his Egyptian servant said after Jospeh arranged to have his cup stolen by his brothers:

          “And he commanded the steward of his house, saying, Fill the men’s sacks with food, as much as they can carry, and put every man’s money in his sack’s mouth. 2 And put my cup, the silver cup, in the sack’s mouth of the youngest, and his corn money. And he did according to the word that Joseph had spoken.
          3 As soon as the morning was light, the men were sent away, they and their asses. 4 And when they were gone out of the city, and not yet far off, Joseph said unto his steward, Up, follow after the men; and when thou dost overtake them, say unto them, Wherefore have ye rewarded evil for good? 5 Is not this it in which my lord drinketh, and whereby indeed he divineth? ye have done evil in so doing.” – Genesis 44:1-5.

          Joseph, who was disguising himself from his brothers, wanted them to think he was Egyptian. And notice he referred to his cup as a tool for divination. Egyptian magicians were able to put a liquid in a cup, stare at it and see images of the future (a process also known as scrying). So we know in Scripture this can happen. (and of course we see Egyptian magicians performing actual supernatural acts in the Exodus – no doubt by help of demonic forces).

          “Also the over seer of my church speaks to the Lord as if God was in the room in the flesh. God has revealed things unto him that no man or demon would know about me.. just thoughts ive had. Just God and God alone would know this type of info (Last time i rmbrd lol demons cant read minds)”

          Again, we can just go to Scripture. And we can see that not only can demons enter a mind – they can put thoughts and words in the minds of others:

          And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left. 20 And the Lord said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. 21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the Lord, and said, I will persuade him. 22 And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so. 23 Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.1 Kings 22-19-23.

          Here we have a demon volunteering to go into the minds of not one person, but a group of men and put thoughts into their heads to make them say something. So demons can certainly enter the mind or body of a person. We also know of “familiar spirits” in Scripture which can known facts about a person by following them and relay the information to an occult medium who then appears to “know personal details about uncle frank no one else knew” or something of that sort.

          The main point that I am trying to emphasize is that we cannot trust our physical senses to form our theology. We must only trust The Bible. Why? Because that is the power of God. That is His Wisdom, Spirit and Life. And you are not basing your belief on Scripture but what you personally think is “holy” even though Scripture says that you and I can both be deceived in our experiences. So I encourage strong caution in declaring all these things to be of God.

          I do absolutely believe God is working miracles today. I believe God uses people. I believe in supernatural occurrences in 2013, not just ancient times. But in terms of prophets having audible conversations with The Lord, I do not believe they exist anymore. I hope this clarifies my position more and of course I welcome your response. God bless.

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      • Hi B&E, thanks for commenting.

        • ABOUT PROPHETS:

        Ephesians 4: 11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:

        Verse 11 indicates clearly that God called to serve in different capacity for the edifying of the body.
        This letter was written to Ephesians well after the early churches began in the days of Pentecost when they experienced it. So these ministries are given by God unto His people to build up His church and it goes well beyond the setting of the foundations by early fathers.

        • ABOUT PROPHETS TALKING DIRECTLY TO GOD:

        We should know that every minister of God in whichever ministry he is, talks directly to God, as is also the case of all born again Christians.

        (2 Corinthians 5:18-20) “And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; {19} To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. {20} Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.”

        Indeed after being reconciled to God through Jesus Christ, we all have this specific status of being children of God and hence have the privilege of enjoying a personal relationship with God.
        As any intimate personal relationship, the notion of talking directly to the person in a personal relationship is included. At this point I’m wondering if it is your belief that only prophets of the
        Old Testament can talk directly to God.

        And if the God you believe in is a Living God, how do you conceive praying to God and not expecting Him to talk to you?

        Rather the belief that only prophets of Old Testament or early church could communicate with God appears to rejoin the point of views of traditional religious people who believe that God keeps at a distance from His people.

        • ABOUT MODERN PROPHECIES BEING AN ADDITION TO THE WORD:

        (1 John 4:1) “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.”

        Why do you assume when someone says he got revelation from God it is necessarily an addition to the Word of God? The Word of God says to test all spirits and the Word is precisely used to test whether a prophecy is from the Lord or not, for we believe that prophecies confirm the Word of God, and do not add to it or bring any element that would differ from it.

        • ABOUT SPEAKING IN TONGUES:

        (1 Corinthians 13:1) “Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.”

        (1 Corinthians 14:1-6) “Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. {2} For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him;howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. {3} But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. {4} He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.{5} I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.{6} Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?”

        (Romans 8:26) “Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.”

        There are so many languages and dialects spoken across the globe. Why do you assume that the tongues we speak are gibberish?

        But also, I do not understand why you said that speaking in tongues is not biblical. Paul said that he spoke with the tongues of men and of angels. It was not only foreign tongues from Earth but of Angels as well. And nowadays many Christians have the gift of speaking in tongues.

        Thank you B&E, God bless you.

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        • Agreed

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        • Hi AF,

          Thanks for your response. You seem to have skipped over my responses to your earlier verses, but I will address these new ones:

          • ABOUT PROPHETS:

          Ephesians 4: 11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:

          Verse 11 indicates clearly that God called to serve in different capacity for the edifying of the body.
          This letter was written to Ephesians well after the early churches began in the days of Pentecost when they experienced it. So these ministries are given by God unto His people to build up His church and it goes well beyond the setting of the foundations by early fathers.

          Once again Paul writes of these things being given in the past tense. These apostles and prophets being spoken of were specific people Paul was referencing, (i.e., Matthew, Mark, Peter, etc.). These men received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost and set about spreading the Gospel in supernatural fashion. And the verse you cited from Joel, which Peter declared fulfilled at pentecost, showed that this was a special dispensation of the Holy Spirit power for the purpose of establishing the church throughout the world. So many pastors quote that verse from Joel and apply it to modern times even though its fulfillment is clearly stated in the Bible.

          There were prophets like Agabus, who I referenced who heard directly from God with a prophecy for an entire land. And we obviously had evangelists like Timothy and Appolos. These men formed the foundation of the Christian church, which Paul says explicitly chapters later in the same book (the passage I cited in my first response to you).

          To show that Paul was not just using the past tense in verse 11 casually, we only have to go back to verse 7:

          7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

          Notice this admonition for all Christians is in present tense. We are all given grace. That is something universal, for all time, for born again Christians. And that’s why it has a different tense than verse 11.

          “• ABOUT PROPHETS TALKING DIRECTLY TO GOD:

          We should know that every minister of God in whichever ministry he is, talks directly to God, as is also the case of all born again Christians.

          (2 Corinthians 5:18-20) “And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; {19} To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. {20} Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.”

          Indeed after being reconciled to God through Jesus Christ, we all have this specific status of being children of God and hence have the privilege of enjoying a personal relationship with God.
          As any intimate personal relationship, the notion of talking directly to the person in a personal relationship is included. At this point I’m wondering if it is your belief that only prophets of the
          Old Testament can talk directly to God.

          And if the God you believe in is a Living God, how do you conceive praying to God and not expecting Him to talk to you?

          Rather the belief that only prophets of Old Testament or early church could communicate with God appears to rejoin the point of views of traditional religious people who believe that God keeps at a distance from His people.”

          As I said before, I did not say that God does not communicate with people and i never said that God is not close to His children. These are not accurate representations of the argument I put forth in my initial comment to you. To clarify, I am talking about audible, back and forth conversations with God, where He is audibly speaking from Heaven to you. And anyone in ear shot can hear Him too. So being reconciled to God and having a relationship with Him through prayer and supplication is not really relevant to this discussion. As I have said, we can all hear from The Lord in different ways. When you feel guilty about your sin, you are hearing from God. It is the Spirit of God in you communicating to you with that conviction. I believe when that happens, yes, God is actually speaking to you. But that is something that takes place internally. The prophets of Scripture had open conversations with The Lord and He sometimes even appeared to them or brought them into His presence. And the words they heard are Holy Scripture. Is this what you do? Are you claiming that this is the type of experience you have as a born again Christian?

          ” • ABOUT MODERN PROPHECIES BEING AN ADDITION TO THE WORD:

          (1 John 4:1) “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.”

          Why do you assume when someone says he got revelation from God it is necessarily an addition to the Word of God? The Word of God says to test all spirits and the Word is precisely used to test whether a prophecy is from the Lord or not, for we believe that prophecies confirm the Word of God, and do not add to it or bring any element that would differ from it.”

          I’m not sure what this verse means here. You are the person saying that prophets exist today, so that means they have passed your personal test of discernment, correct? And my point is that if someone is a true prophet of God then what God told them is literally Holy Scripture. Just go through the prophets of The Old Testament. Do a search of a phrase “the word of The Lord” and you’ll see hundreds of occasions where God spoke to them. And every conversation became our Bible, because it is divinely inspired Word. So if that is what you or your pastor are receiving, it should be published to the entire body of believers and the world because it is literally The Word of God. So yes, it is 100% on par with Scripture. What would make it any different? And again I ask, are you claiming that you have received this type of prophecy or that your pastor has? This is a major declaration to make.

          • ABOUT SPEAKING IN TONGUES:

          (1 Corinthians 13:1) “Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.”

          What does this verse mean? I often see this verse used as a “proof” of unintelligible tongues. But I don’t understand why. Where do you interpret in this verse that angels speak like people do in tongues-speaking churches? We hear angels speak on many occasions in the Bible. Jacob, Abraham, Moses, Manoah, Joshua and Mary are just a few example of the many people who spoke directly to angels, who were standing right before them visibly. And they had no problem understanding them at all. So I do not believe this verse has any bearing on this issue and is instead being misapplied.

          (1 Corinthians 14:1-6) “Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. {2} For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him;howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. {3} But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. {4} He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.{5} I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.{6} Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?”

          This passage is actually an argument against speaking in tongues. But the tongues here (in greek, the word glossa), does not refer to random utterances, but to actual languages spoken around the world. An “unknown tongue” refers to a language that is unknown to the audience. this is what Paul is trying to clarify. Thus if we are in a church of people who speak English only, and I start preaching in Russian, no one will understand. No one is edified. No one receives any Biblical revelation. And only God can understand me, because God knows every language.

          We can know this is true from verse 27 where Paul says: “If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. 28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

          So clearly, the tongues in question, have to be actual languages of different nations, that other people are able to interpret. So Scripture sets a cleat standard for what tongues are and how they should be spoken. Is this how you speak in tongues? In real, ethnic languages? Does your church use two interpreters who know the language being spoken and can thus intepret for everyone else? because I can assure you from personal experience and watching numerous videos, there are tens of thousands of churches all over the world where everyone is just speaking gibberish at the same time at a very loud volume with no interpretation whatsoever taking place and no real language being spoken. It is completely out of line with every clear scriptural guideline. So how is it taking place in your church?

          Interestingly, Paul says in the next verse: “Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.” Again, is this how prophecy being done in your church? With a committee of 3 prophets, with 2 who judge if the prophecy is Holy??

          (Romans 8:26) “Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.”

          There are so many languages and dialects spoken across the globe. Why do you assume that the tongues we speak are gibberish?

          Romans 8:26 is another verse that I think is being misapplied in this discussion. It is referencing the groanings of The Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God. Are you claiming that you can speak in the same groanings as The Lord? Even though Scripture says in that very same verse that these groanings “cannot be uttered.”?? I honestly am confused as why those who support speaking in tongues cite this verse. It’s actually saying that these groanings are things we as humans are incapable of even uttering.

          Speaking in tongues in the Bible was always the utterance of actual foreign languages. In every instance. And it was done as a sign to unbelievers (which Paul emphasizes in 1 Corinthians 14). That was its sole purpose. It was not a form of worship, or reaching a higher level of connection with The Lord or anything of that sort. It was a supernatural sign to serve as part of a witness of the Gospel to unbelievers. But even in the times of the Apostles, it was becoming used in many unintended ways. And despite the guidelines listed in Scripture it seems that the church today has gotten away from that into its own version of it altogether. Maybe you think I am off in this so again, I welcome your thoughts.

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        • Amen! ^_^

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      • Humility Does NOT Come Easily says:

        Hebrews 13:8 “Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.” If there were prophets then, there can be prophets now and there can be prophets tomorrow.

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    • Did you notice the speaking in the video DIDNT match her lips, SHE SUNG A SONG CALLED BY THE GRACE OF GOD IN OCTOBER AND SHE IS CHRISTIAN (Me 2 :) So dont fake any thing. ARTICLE INFO:
      50% of this is Real (The Bible Verses)
      60% of this is Not Real (The Katy Stories that are Fake)

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      • Decepticon says:

        So.. this woman, who had a hindu wedding ceremony in India and babbles about how awesome transcendental meditation is Christian? You do know that the God of this world isn’t exactly the one spoken of in the Bible, correct?

        Just because someone says they believe in God, don’t mean it’s YHWH they’re talking about. I mean Kim Kardashian says she’s a Christian but promotes idolatry, greed, and promiscuity.

        Judge by the fruits.

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    • Nothing says it better than Scripture…..

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  4. While I agree that Katy Perry has been a bad influence on the world and needs to turn to Jesus, I have wondered if it’s really her parents fault. For the way they raised her daughter and the rules they put on her growing up such as:

    No watching the Smurfs cartoon allowed.

    Deviled Eggs must be called Angel Eggs.

    Dirt Devil vacuum cleaners not allowed in the house because of the world Devil on them.

    No music allowed in the house, except for gospel.

    No use of the word “Lucky”.

    No sugar allowed.

    No reading of books other than the Bible.

    And I am sure she was raised on other rules that are really legalistic, nitpicky, nonsense that doesn’t affect a Christian’s walk have been put on her. Wouldn’t a lifestyle of being raised by these kinds of rules make just about anyone run away from Christianity and go into the world because it looks a lot better? Because there are Christian parents out there who are so afraid of the world that anything that is harmless and doesn’t have a hint of bad influence is not allowed. Most Christians I have seen growing up never had to be raised with rules such as these and yet they turn out to be fine. Other former Christians I’ve seen or read about being raised with similar rules turn agnostic or to atheism and many become bitter towards Christianity.

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  5. That guy should NOT be a Pastor, if his church wasn’t an apostate church they would have demoted him for having an unruly rebellious child:

    See especially verses 4 and 5:
    1Ti 3:1 ¶ This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
    1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
    1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
    1Ti 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
    1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
    1Ti 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
    1Ti 3:7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

    He failed in his own home so he’s unqualified to lead a church, so clearly his entire church is apostate, they probably even kicked out any people that raised this up to have that man demoted from Pastor.

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    • Aundria Premo says:

      First, you are way off base. My mother was adamant about Christianity in our home. My grandparents were married for 68 years, until Papa passed away the day after Christmas in 2008, at age 98. My grandmother, his wife, just turned 102 in April 2013. I was baptized faithfully at age 10, and I loved the Lord, my church, the Bible… I was genuine in my Christian walk. When I was 14, something changed, and I ran away to Hollywood. I was raped. I started to drink, and had sex with a boy when I was 16, by choice, and got pregnant from that one encounter. My son is now 20, and I raised him, with the help of the church and my mother, after his father died when our baby was just 5 months old. You want to tell me that my MOTHER did something wrong? That my UNRULINESS had ANYTHING to do with her or my grandparents, whom I spent most of my childhood around?…. their marriage and their faith are my inspiration, my proof of how faithful my Savior is always, forever. My mother never “failed” in her own home. I FAILED. “Train up a child in the way he should go…. ” I was raised that way. I backslid. I sinned. I rebelled. Yes, I DID. But I came back…. all because my mother succeeded. I’m now dedicated to raising my family in that same way I was raised. My husband and I have been married 8 years now. We are expecting our third son together. He’s raised my oldest son from the age of 12. We are truly blessed. If one of our sons ever strays, he will return to the flock, because we trained him up that way. Just as I believe Katy Perry will do someday….

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      • Aundria Premo:
        First, you are way off base. My mother was adamant about Christianity in our home. My grandparents were married for 68 years, until Papa passed away the day after Christmas in 2008, at age 98. My grandmother, his wife, just turned 102 in April 2013. I was baptized faithfully at age 10, and I loved the Lord, my church, the Bible… I was genuine in my Christian walk. When I was 14, something changed, and I ran away to Hollywood. I was raped. I started to drink, and had sex with a boy when I was 16, by choice, and got pregnant from that one encounter. My son is now 20, and I raised him, with the help of the church and my mother, after his father died when our baby was just 5 months old. You want to tell me that my MOTHER did something wrong? That my UNRULINESS had ANYTHING to do with her or my grandparents, whom I spent most of my childhood around?…. their marriage and their faith are my inspiration, my proof of how faithful my Savior is always, forever. My mother never “failed” in her own home. I FAILED. “Train up a child in the way he should go…. ” I was raised that way. I backslid. I sinned. I rebelled. Yes, I DID. But I came back…. all because my mother succeeded. I’m now dedicated to raising my family in that same way I was raised. My husband and I have been married 8 years now. We are expecting our third son together. He’s raised my oldest son from the age of 12. We are truly blessed. If one of our sons ever strays, he will return to the flock, because we trained him up that way. Just as I believe Katy Perry will do someday….

        Well if your mom is a “pastor” then sure, but I’m talking about this man, this apostate Pastor.
        His entire theology is wrong, his unability to raise children speaks volumes, his child went into the world, the Bible is clear:
        Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

        Obviously this apostate Pastor totally failed with that and I’m certain it has much to with his theology, just look at his own homepage who he strangely named after himself, very sensual and devilish in itself to name a ministry in his own name:
        http://www.keithhudson.org/

        Why would he name this ministry after himself if he serves the LORD? See I think this is the root of the apostasy and it stems from him, his daughter learning his way of self glorification and what is pop stars? They’re self glorifying idols.

        So what your sad state of affairs have to do with this I don’t know because women are not allowed to be pastors, the text says that there are hard special requirements for even being a pastor and because these requirements have not been follow all sorts of wolves, hirelings and false teachers have crept in and slaughtered large parts of the flock. And then there’s people like you that will run to the defense of these creatures, it almost always is a unruly woman running to their defense as well, you really should have let your husband taken this fight.

        As I said if your mom was a pastor then she was in severe rebellion, if she was not this has nothing to do with the requirements of Hudson as a pastor. So why would you even bring that up here as some form of defense of an apostate Pastor? You know there’s much more information about Katy Perry out there than just this article, especially her videos are very revealing as of who owns her, even the apostate Pastor can see that.

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        • Aundria Premo says:

          First of all, the judgment in your response is unbelievable. Second, I never said my mother was a preacher, though if the Lord were to call her, or myself, or any female, to do so, then it’s not for you or any man to say otherwise. You are not GOD. As per the women not speaking in the church, you are leaving out the entire context of that statement, and the condition of gossips in the church at that time. So ,to you, women are good enough to do missionary work, but not to lead a church. That is hypocrisy. Also, I don’t need my husband to speak for me. I am a free woman in Christ Jesus. And I am NOT defending Katy Perry, nor her actions. Not at all. I AM saying that if she was raised in Christ, as I was, and has backslidden, she will always be welcomed back into the loving arms of her savior when she realizes the depths of her sin. I will not be debating any of this with you, as you are clearly not interested in hearing from anyone not willing to be outspoken for her faith. But I will not be silent when it comes to my salvation and the power of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

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  6. You really drag in the crazies don’t you B&E. Charismaniacs and Plenty-cost-alls.

    Remember what was said about them:
    G. Campbell Morgan described the Azusa Street activities as “the last vomit of Satan”

    R.A. Torrey declared that this new Pentecostal movement was “emphatically not of God, and founded by a Sodomite.”

    H.A. Ironside said in 1912 both the holiness and Pentecostal movements were “disgusting. . .delusions and insanities.” . . . “pandemonium’s where exhebitions worthy of a madhouse or a collection of howling dervishes,” were causing a “heavy toll of lunacy and infidelity.”

    W.B. Godbey said of Azusa Street participants and he claimed the movement was the result of spiritualism “Satan’s preachers, jugglers, necromancers, enchanters, magicians, and all sorts of mendicants.”

    Clarence Larkin had this to say “But the conduct of those possessed, in which they fall to the ground and writhe in contortions, causing disarrangement’s of the clothing and disgraceful scenes, is more a characteristic of demon possession, than a work of the Holy Spirit. From what has been said we see that we are living in “Perilous Times,” and that all about us are “Seducing Spirits,” and that they will become more active as the Dispensation draws to its close, and that we must exert the greatest care lest we be lead astray.”

    they’re the same today:

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  7. B&E. Although I enjoy some of your articles, I have to respectfully disagree with you regarding the speaking in tongues & prophets. I’ve read many other articles where you have taken the same stance as this one. It has bothered me enough that it has warranted me writing this response.

    Let me first say that I totally agree with AF’s post and believe he showed legitimate scripture to support his claims. Therefore, I won’t debate with you as this has already been done by others to no avail. The scripture you use (Heb. 1:1-2) to claim prophets are longer in existence is a total misinterpretation in my opinion and can be compared to the likes of Church of Christ claiming we should have no music or Baptist claiming dancing is wrong scripturally.

    This all said, I understand that there is a school of theology that believes that the prophets & spiritual gifts did die when Jesus did and they no longer are in existence today. Although I personally disagree, not only from personal experience, as well as my interpretation of scripture, I still respect your opinion to believe as you do. I realize that some things in the Bible can be interpreted differently by different people. I think what bothers me the most is you have this great opportunity to use this forum to warn people about the dangers of rock music and the pop culture that is having this negative demonic influence over our youth & culture today. By exposing these celebrities you should be taking the opportunity to share the love of God and bringing lost people to know the love and grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and showing them salvation by confessing Jesus as their Lord and Savior. Instead you’ve chosen to attack other christian brothers and sisters telling them “speaking in tongues” is wrong and prophets no longer exist. We both could debate this tell we are exhausted using scriptures to support our claims and at the end of the day nothing would change. My point is that it doesn’t matter. If one believes Jesus is the son of God and accepts him into his/her heart and believes they are saved by his grace that is good enough. So, instead of attacking fellow Christians with your personal beliefs of scripture which is debated by many theologicans on these subject matters why don’t you focus on sharing salavation? I don’t think anyone is gonna go to hell for believing they can speak in tongues. Let’s leave the deeper scriptural debates for another place and focus on winning over lost souls to Jesus.

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    • I couldnt havr said it better myself. Well said and well put my friend. Despite the truth in your comment, saying what u said with love is what stands out the most

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      • Thanks Vic. I was hoping I would get a response from B&E but i’ve noticed when someone has a valid point or valid scripture that B&E can’t refute he usually won’t respond. Other than any follow up comments to these current msgs I think i’ve paid my last visit to this website. God bless!

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        • Noo dont leave. Pray for our bros and sisters in Christ. The Lord will open up B and E eyes in due time. Dont be ofgended and give up. Thats what the devil wants. Your words inspire others and what u say is true. You inspired and reminded me to have love for others even when u dnt agree. Just reading ur msg i can see ur in tune with Christ.. stay and pray. We as brothers and sisters need to sharpen each other

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          • Vic, I will definately keep B&E in prayer that the Lord will give him revelation. I, among others, have planted the seeds and whether B&E chooses to examine and pray more to God to receive true revelation in this area or simply chooses to ignore it is entirely up to him. Sometimes we are just called to plant the seed and someone else may sow it at a later time or sometimes the devil may come and snatch that seed and it will never get nurtured at all. I’m not offended at all. By B&E’s lack of response i’m thinking that he isn’t open or he would’ve responded in some way.

            I’m choosing to leave this site b/c this isn’t the only issue i’ve come across that I disagree with personally or scripturally. There are other items i’ve seen, which I will not take the time to discuss, I don’t necessarily agree with B&E. There are other websites available that have similar content where the Pastor/author believes in the gifts of the spirit, etc. This is one that is particularly good. http://www.goodfight.org Stay strong in Christ and God Bless brother!

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        • Hi JJ,

          Thanks for your post. I apologize for the delay in my response but I was actually away on a much-needed vacation with no connection to the internet. So for the past week I have been in “the dark” so to speak. If there are other discussions where you would like me to respond, please let me know. In general, I do not always jump into message board discussion because we like to encourage the free exchange of ideas. This ministry does not want reads to think that if they post something that we happen to disagree with we are always going to respond immediately to it. Additionally, sometimes there are discussions that are going really well on their own and don’t warrant our interjection. but certainly, if you ask a specific question, I’m glad to answer. God bless.

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    • Hi JJ,

      Thanks again for your comments. I did respond to AF so I hope you check out that post. I will try to address your comments here the best that I can.

      “The scripture you use (Heb. 1:1-2) to claim prophets are longer in existence is a total misinterpretation in my opinion and can be compared to the likes of Church of Christ claiming we should have no music or Baptist claiming dancing is wrong scripturally.”

      Here is the passage in question:

      God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
      – Hebrews 1:1-2.

      How is my interpretation, that God at once time spoke to us through the prophets, but has now chosen, in this age (the last days) to speak to us by Jesus Christ, incorrect? How is what I said a “misrepresentation” of the passage? I honestly have no idea what music or dancing have to do with this issue. What is your intepretation of the passage?

      This all said, I understand that there is a school of theology that believes that the prophets & spiritual gifts did die when Jesus did and they no longer are in existence today. Although I personally disagree, not only from personal experience, as well as my interpretation of scripture, I still respect your opinion to believe as you do. I realize that some things in the Bible can be interpreted differently by different people. I think what bothers me the most is you have this great opportunity to use this forum to warn people about the dangers of rock music and the pop culture that is having this negative demonic influence over our youth & culture today. By exposing these celebrities you should be taking the opportunity to share the love of God and bringing lost people to know the love and grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and showing them salvation by confessing Jesus as their Lord and Savior. Instead you’ve chosen to attack other christian brothers and sisters telling them “speaking in tongues” is wrong and prophets no longer exist.

      Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? (Galatians 4:16). Sharing the Gospel is far and away the no. 1 mission of this website. And in every article we direct the reader to the Gospel or just explain it right in the article itself. That being said, there is no reason to compromise Biblical truth. Jesus Christ The Lord shared the Gospel but that was not all He had to say. He repeatedly exposed incorrect teachings. So while we can focus on the milk of the simple Gospel of grace through faith in Jesus Christ alone, we also have to focus on the meat of Scripture and other issues in the Bible. I respect your disagreement as I know many people believe in tongues speaking today but my disagreement should not be taken as a “lack of love” or disrespect. At the end of the day, Scripture is our judge , and we should be able to look into the text and share our thoughts respectfully and in LOVE.

      “I don’t think anyone is gonna go to hell for believing they can speak in tongues”

      The problem with this line of thinking is that it is the exact opposite of what our Lord taught. On 5 occasions in the Gospels Jesus Christ told His disciples: “beware of the leaven of the pharisees.” Just a tiny portion of false doctrine can lead to greater spiritual error. In Galatians 5 we are told to “purge” the old leaven and that “A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.” it takes just a pinch of leaven in a bowl of bread dough to permeate the whole loaf and make it rise. Thus our Lord’s point is clear: we should not permit spiritual error because it lead to greater error. So I pose the question to you: are you speaking in tongues in accordance with Scripture? Does your church follow the guidelines for speaking in tongues as stated in Scripture? Are you and your church speaking real languages, or making noises? If you are not following the Bible knowingly and overlook it, then you are succumbing to person-made doctrine. This is a very serious spiritual issue so the critique of it in the article was not done casually. The church is reaching a real tipping point between adhering to Scripture and no longer regarding the Word of God as our absolute authority. This is going to be the dividing line of hte next decade in Christianity. And this ministry is devoted to contending for the faith once given to the saints and trying our best as flawed, filthy-minded, wretched sinners saved by grace, to rightly divide it and obey. God bless.

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      • Aundria Premo says:

        The Lord teaches that all one needs to avoid hell is a belief and acceptance of Jesus Christ as one’s Lord & Savior. The Lord does NOT teach that believing one can speak in tongues will send anyone to hell.

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        • Hi Aundria,

          Thanks for your comment. I never said otherwise. But we also have to heed Jesus’ direct warnings of “leaven” in our doctrine. The danger is this: if we accept non-biblical doctrine, then we can also be open to non-biblical spirits and gospels. Jesus Our Lord warned us that MANY would come in His name, claiming to be Him, in the last days (the time we are living in). So we have to be on guard to make sure that the Spirit and the Jesus we are believing in are the ones from the Holy Scriptures.

          So again, I ask to you and everyone who speaks in tongues today: are you and your church speaking in tongues in the manner clearly outlined in Scripture?

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          • Aundria Premo says:

            My comment was directly in response to this:

            (“I don’t think anyone is gonna go to hell for believing they can speak in tongues”

            The problem with this line of thinking is that it is the exact opposite of what our Lord taught. )

            Those weren’t my words, but yours. I was replying to the INFERENCE that the Lord taught one could go to hell for believing they can speak in tongues. For the record, I am NOT a member of a charismatic church. I’ve never spoken in tongues, nor attended a church where people claim to do so, or do so in fact.

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            • Hi Aundria,

              Well you left out the Bible verses where I quote our Lord Jesus. As I said, He warned 5 times:

              ” How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.” – Matthew 16:11-12.

              Additionally, in Galatians 5 we read: “A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.” re-amphasizing the same idea that our Lord stated: namely, that a tiny bit of false doctrine can pervade and corrupt an entire belief system. Why else would Jesus say “beware”?

              The danger of following a false teaching is that you are being led by a false spirit. And that deception can lead one to worship a false Christ. In 2 Corinthians 11 this is confirmed:

              But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. – 2 Corinthians 11:3-4.

              So by Scripture we can know that Satan is going to seek to deceive people with a false spirit, a false Gospel and a false Jesus Christ. These are very serous spiritual matters. And how will Satan do it? By ANY MEANS. We should be shaken to the core by these warnings and guard our hearts with the grace of God and His Holy Word. If a man or woman today claims to be a prophet of the same ilk as Elijah, Moses, Daniel and all Biblical prophets, then what they say is the very Word of God and disagreement with them is sin. This is how prophets are treated Biblically. This is why I said that this is an extremely bold claim to make. But we are in an age where many, many people are claiming this very thing. And if someone is a prophet than they can claim new revelations and doctrines with no way of verification. So well-meaning churchgoers are following person-made doctrine and not the Word of God. When The Lord Jesus says many will call Him “Lord” and He does not know them, how does that happen? By them clearly believing in a doctrine that used the name of Jesus but was not based on the Biblical Gospel. This is the danger I am trying to warn of.

              So any inference you saw from me is based on the Word of God and not my own opinions. I am not trying to say that speaking in tongues means one is going to hell. I am saying that actively practicing a false doctrine runs the risk of greater spiritual deception as stated in Scripture. If you have thoughts to share on these verses I cite or a different interpretation, I’m more than happy to discuss it. This is a very important subject in the church today and I think it certainly warrants Biblical examination on all of our parts. God bless you abundantly and thanks for raising these questions.

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        • Aundria, that was my point exactly! Thank you!

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      • Hello B&E, thanks for your reponse. If you will read in my original post I stated “Let me first say that I totally agree with AF’s post and believe he showed legitimate scripture to support his claims. Therefore, I won’t debate with you as this has already been done by others to no avail”. So, I will go against my original stmt and debate with you even though at the end of this I think we will both still disagree but I think its important for the other readers to hear this b/c I believe your interpretation of scripture is wrong and you could be misleading someone who is a babe or even more mature in Christ with false information.

        Let me start by addressing some claims in your response. In your follow up to me you stated “I did respond to AF so I hope you check out that post. I will try to address your comments here the best that I can”. Yes, you did respond to AF’s original post but not his 2nd post (As of the date of my original post-I did notice you responded on the 17th but I have not read yet) which is the one to which I was referencing as him showing legitmate scripture to support speaking in tongues and prophecy. I could repeat those scriptures but its not necessary as it as already been done by AF.

        You state in your response “How is my interpretation, that God at once time spoke to us through the prophets, but has now chosen, in this age (the last days) to speak to us by Jesus Christ, incorrect? How is what I said a “misrepresentation” of the passage? I honestly have no idea what music or dancing have to do with this issue. What is your intepretation of the passage?” Let me address this by saying your interpretation is “legalistic” in nature because by using this 1 verse alone you are trumping the rest of the entire bible much in the same way the Church of Christ or Baptist do so with the claim of no music and dancing. One has to take the Bible as a whole and there are many more biblical scriptures that show contradictory to your claim. AF pointed many of these out in his response so once again i direct you back to his 2nd post. Anyone can take one scripture and twist it out of context or misuse it to make it something it isn’t. Even Satan himself used scripture to tempt Jesus in the wilderness by taking it out of context and manipulating it to something it wasn’t.

        In response to your next point in which you state “Sharing the Gospel is far and away the no. 1 mission of this website. And in every article we direct the reader to the Gospel or just explain it right in the article itself. That being said, there is no reason to compromise Biblical truth. Jesus Christ The Lord shared the Gospel but that was not all He had to say. He repeatedly exposed incorrect teachings.” I’m glad to hear that your focus is on salvation as this is the most important concept to non believers who make their way to this site. However, in several blogs including this one its as if you almost go out of your way to point out that “speaking in tongues” and “prophecy” is biblically uncorrect. I wouldn’t have such a issue with this if you would present it in a manner stating that there is a belief that these are still in existence today and their is a belief that these are biblically wrong. I personally belief the latter and here is the scripture(s) I belief that supports my belief. What if your interpretation of scripture is wrong?? Do you want to stand before God and answer for misleading people?? No one, no matter how smart they are knows everything in the Bible. For example, pre,mid,post tribulation. There is evidence that leads to different theories. No one kows for sure until the Lord returns. You do seem very intelligent and well versed in most scriptures. I would like to know if you attended seminary and if this belief was taught to you there or if it’s one you developed personally? I know your belief is definately a minority of the church and not many Pastors, theolgians, etc. agree with the interpretation you have on these subject matters.

        Lastly, in respose to your quote of my original quote (I don’t think anyone is gonna go to hell for believing they can speak in tongues)

        “The problem with this line of thinking is that it is the exact opposite of what our Lord taught. On 5 occasions in the Gospels Jesus Christ told His disciples: “beware of the leaven of the pharisees.” Just a tiny portion of false doctrine can lead to greater spiritual error”.

        Speaking in tongues is NOT biblical incorrect!! It is listed as one of the nine spiritual gifts in Corinthians. I Cor 12:1-11 So, how you can claim that this is “leaven from the pharisees”? That is ludicrous & absolutely ridiculous. There is more support to show that “speaking in tongues” and “prophecy” is more biblical than your theory about the nephilim giants. Although your theory is interesting there is no biblical evidence to support your claims of these 20-30 ft giants every existed.

        In closing, I would like to say that my personal belief per scripture is that the “gift” of tongues is to be used in the church ONLY WITH someone who can interpret so that the church can be edified and as a prayer language to God in which the Holy Spirit prays for you. And I know you will jump all over this but I also believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit. At the end of the day scripture is all about faith. To a atheist/agnostic they might think we both are crazy b/c we believe in the Bible and that its all a bunch of hogwash. But as true Christians, not only do we know its real b/c of scriptures and the Bible but we also have the experience of letting Jesus into our hearts and a personal relationship with him. In that same way, I know that speaking in tongues is real and prophecy is real. I’ve had words spoken over me that have come to fruition. When I speak in tongues the power of the Holy Spirit comes over me. As a seasoned Christian I know the difference between the Holy Spirit and an evil spirit. If this is biblically uncorrect, how could any of these experiences happen?? See I Cor 12:3. “Also, a house divided against itself cannot stand.”
        In the old testament they had God, in the times Jesus was on earth they had Jesus. After Jesus died he sent us the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is what makes all the gifts possible and the baptism of the Spirit. Food for thought, all of the men at Pentecost were already Christians. They were baptized with “fire” as Jesus told them they would be by the Holy Spirit. This was a separate event that took place after salvation. So the notion that your baptized with the Spirit at salvation is biblically incorrect.

        I hope you will re-examine your theology and pray that God will soften your heart to a deeper more intimate relationship with the Holy Spirit who will reveal the truth about these issues. God bless!

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  8. That video is hilarious of the people in the charismatic church. Vic, AF and JJ just got taken to school! They are incapable of answering any of B & E’s questions. Instead they beat around the bush and refuse to acknowledge that speaking in gibberish and prophecy is a bunch of hogwash!!

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    • Peter,

      I’m not sure which video you are referring too. I haven’t watched any videos nor endorse whatever practice may be going on in the video. I would suggest you reread all of my posts. I answered all of B&E’s points. Also, the only thing I said about prophecy is that I do believe that the spiritual gift of prophecy does still exist today per scripture. (1 Cor 12:10) B&E is under the impression that these gifts are no longer in existence today and were only for the disciples and that time period. There is a theory taught in the school of theolgy that shares this point of view but the majority of theologians don’t share this same view.

      I do think there are many false pastors out there practicing false teachings (Benny HInn being one of them, among others). But just b/c there are some bad apples doing things wrong doesn’t mean they don’t exist. Corinthians gives the outline for the correct way to use these gifts in the church.

      FYI, i don’t attend a charasmatic church. I belong to a non-denominational church. None of my believes come from any church but only scripture.

      If you believe these things to be hogwash then you are calling the Bible hogwash b/c it specifically tells us that we are to seek these spiritual gifts to help edify the church. Show scriptures to support your claims. However, I don’t think you will find any that aren’t misinterpreted. God bless!

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      • Hi JJ,

        Thanks for your comments. You cited 1 Corinthians 12:10. Paul’s message on spiritual gifts runs from chapters 12-14. How do you interpret this passage?

        “13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. 4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. 8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.” 1 Corinthians 13.

        And since you said you believe there are prophets today, who hear directly from God in audible conversation, who are these people? Who are some of the modern day prophets you know of? I think this is a very important issue of discussion because many in the church believe in prophecy but rarely do we hear the names of the prophets whose words are equivalent to the Bible itself. So if you care to, please share your thoughts. God bless.

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        • B&E, thanks for your reply. How come you never replied back to my last msg that raised a lot of questions regarding your interpretation of scripture? It seems that when someone has biblical evidence that doesn’t support your theory then you don’t respond or dance around with other scriptures you continue to misinterpret. Even so I will reply to your current msg to me and then copy and paste an article for you to read that will more deeply answer your belief of “cessationism” and three common theories you guys use to support your claims. One being 1Cor 13 that you use above in the article that i’m replying to now.

          First of all, you listed as your argument part of the book of 1 Cor 13 or the “Love” chapter. I’m glad you used this chapter as I think it is a very important chapter regarding the use of spiritual gifts. I will address 2 verses specifically as it would be very time consuming to address every single verse. I will start with verse 1. “Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.” The apostle Paul was writing this to the Corinthian church to show them a more excellent way than they were proceeding. They were so distracted with contentions, divided by parties, and envious of each other’s gifts, that unity was nearly destroyed. This was full proof that love to God and man was wanting; and without this, their numerous gifts and other graces were nothing in the eyes of God; for it was evident that they did not love one another, which is a proof they did not love God; and consequently, that they had not true religion. This is the point and purpose of this chapter to show them how to walk and please God and the correct use of spiritual gifts. In other words, if the had not love then what they were doing was wrong.

          Secondly, I will address the verse you put in bold letters in the above reply (verse 8). “Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.” To fully understand this verse you have to read the verses that follow it to the end of the chapter which you conveniently left off.

          “9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.”

          Verse 9 talks about “prophesying in part” and verse 10 clears it up by telling us that which is in part will be done away with when Jesus returns. Jesus is the “perfect” and upon his return there will be no need for the church to have spiritual gifts any longer as we will now be perfect in Christ. You will say that Paul uses “perfect” to mean the end of the Bible or perhaps when the last apostle John died. However, that is incorrect as in verse 12 it tells us “For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face”. The same greek word used here for face to face is used throughout the Bible and always means a personal face to face encounter with a real person. Additional verses to support this will be listed as reference in my attached article I will paste below shortly.

          As far as you stmt regarding the Prophets speaking to God directly. I never once made that stmt in any of my posts. All I stated was that I believed the “gift” of prophecy is still in existence today as in 1 of the 9 spiritual gifts listed in 1 Cor 12. Therefore I will not address anymore of this comment from you.

          Before I paste that article, I must ask you? When do you think the gifts stopped existing? So, when the last word of the Bible was written or John died at Patmos do you think the next morning all those who had gifts woke up and couldn’t use them anymore?? Oh how confused they must have been! C’mon B&E, you seem like an intelligent person. Do you really think that the 10% who believe what you do are right and the 90% who believe the gifts are still in existence are wrong?? Really?? I asked you before and I’ll ask again since you didn’t answer the first time. Where you taught this view from a teacher or in seminary or did you come up with this belief on your own from your interpretation of scripture?

          Here is a great article from another site pointing out the flaws of “cessationism”. Specifically 1 Cor 13. Enjoy and God bless!

          http://carm.org/questions/about-doctrine/have-charismatic-gifts-ceased

          Here is the link pasted below.

          Have the Charismatic Gifts Ceased?
          The issue of the whether or not the charismatic spiritual gifts are for today has caused much debate and division in the body of Christ. The extremes are amazing. There are groups that say that if you do speak in tongues, then you are under demonic control and are not saved. On the other hand, some say that if you do not speak in tongues then you are not saved. What’s more, both extremes use scripture to support their positions.

          Fortunately for the Christian church, whether or not the spiritual gifts are for today is not a salvation issue. Therefore, we need to be gracious. Romans 14:5 says, “One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind” (All Bible quotes are from the NASB). As you can see, the Bible leaves room for debate and differences of opinion on non-essential doctrines. The issue of whether or not the charismatic gifts are still around is a debatable issue and charity needs to be granted from both sides of the argument. This is not an issue to divide over as many, unfortunately, have chosen to do.1

          It is my opinion that the charismatic spiritual gifts are still in effect. I do not believe they ceased with the apostles or with the completion of the Bible. If you disagree, that is fine. But let me give you my reasons here.

          For simplicity’s sake, I will state a standard objection to the continuance of the spiritual gifts and then I will give what I believe is a basic but sufficient refutation for that argument. All the verses quoted are listed in full at the end of this paper.

          Argument 1: Since we have the Bible we do not need spiritual gifts. 1 Cor. 13:8-13 is usually quoted as scriptural support for the position:

          Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. 9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part; 10but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. 11When I was a child, I used to speak as a child, think as a child, reason as a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. 12For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I shall know fully just as I also have been fully known. 13But now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.”
          Some vigorously maintain that the “perfect” is the completed Bible and, therefore, the extraordinary gifts are no longer needed. But I do not think these verses can be used to support cessationism. This is why.

          Verse 12 says, “…then we shall see face to face.” The word “then” refers back to the phrase “when the perfect comes.” Since the only infallible interpreter of Scripture is Scripture, a quick examination of the way God uses the term “face to face” should help us understand this passage better.

          The phrase is used throughout the Bible and always means an encounter with a person. When God uses it in reference to Himself, it means a visual, personal encounter with Him (Gen. 32:30; Ex. 33:11; Num. 12:8; Deut. 5:4; and Jer. 32:4). Likewise in the New Testament it is also used in speaking of personal encounter (2 Cor. 10:1; 2 John 1:12; 3 John 1:14, etc.). “When the perfect comes… then we shall see face to face” seems, most logically, to refer a personal encounter; at least, that seems to be how God uses the phrase.

          If the position is taken that the “perfect” is the completed Bible, how then do we encounter God in the manner as the phrase suggests: an encounter with a person? Seeing Christ face to face occurs when He returns.

          Another “then” is mentioned in verse 12: “then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.” The word “then” again refers back to the phrase “when the perfect comes.” Again, we need to look at how the Bible uses words. This time we’ll look at the word “know.” Scripture says that eternal life is to know God (John 17:3). Only the believer is known by Jesus (John 10:27; Gal. 4:8-9; Rom. 8:29). The unbeliever is not known by Jesus (Matt. 7:21-23). In every verse except for one, God says He only knows believers.2 This is a salvific knowing; that is, it is a kind of knowing that God does of the Christians. He knows them and they are saved. The unbelievers are not known and are, therefore, not saved.3

          It would seem most consistent with scripture to say that “…as I am fully known” would refer to a salvation relationship between Jesus and the Christian. At the return of Christ we (the ones known) shall know fully; we shall see face to face the One who is our Savior.

          Also, we don’t “know” Jesus through the Scripture; we know about Him from the Scripture (John 5:39). Instead, we know Him by personal encounter (John 1:12; 1 Cor. 1:9) through the Holy Spirit’s indwelling. We don’t know in a full sense right now, even though we have the Bible, because we are still corrupted by our sin nature. In our fallen state we can only see Christ through sin-clouded eyes. We see a reflection of Christ in the Word. When Jesus returns the reflection of the truth will pass to clear understanding (the way childish thoughts give way to mature ones) when we receive our resurrected bodies, no longer have to battle sinful flesh, and can see Him face to face because “we shall be like Him” (1 John 3:2) and then, “…we shall know fully.” The context of 1 Cor. 13:8-13 seems, in my opinion, to show that the spiritual gifts will cease when Jesus returns.

          Interestingly, 1 Cor. 1:7 may be consulted here as well. It says, “so that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our lord Jesus Christ.” The Greek word here for “revealed” is apokalupsis. It means the apocalypse, the return of Jesus. In both this verse and 1 Cor. 13:8-13 the gifts, which aren’t differentiated as to kind, are connected to the return of Christ, not the completion of the Bible. One more thing, the word gift in the Greek is charisma. This is where we get the word ‘charismatic.’

          Argument 2: Present day tongues are further revelation and must then be equal to Scripture and should be included in the Bible. But since the Bible is not to have anything added to it, the gift of tongues (and therefore, the rest of the spiritual gifts) must no longer be valid.

          This is a faulty argument because the Scripture itself recognizes inspired revelation that is not to be added to the Bible: “What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church” (1 Cor. 14:26). Here, in the Corinthian church, revelations were given that were not made part of the Bible. This shows that there were, for a lack of a better word, “different” kinds of revelation: one from the prophets and apostles meant for canonization and another through the Spirit to be used in the church for edification — not canonization. So, in my opinion, for someone to maintain that revelation today is a threat to the Canon does not consider 1 Cor. 14:26, and is not applying scripture properly.

          Argument 3: There is such misuse of the gifts that they couldn’t possibly be real.

          First of all, misuse of the gifts implies their existence. They couldn’t be misused if they did not exist. The only real position to be taken here would be that the use of the gifts really is no use, but is only fakery and self-deception.

          I do not deny that the gifts are misused. I have heard manifestations of tongues, interpretations of tongues, and prophecy that, in my opinion, were not genuine. But I do not discredit the gifts based upon those experiences anymore than I would say that the gift of preaching is gone because I have seen it misused. Experience does not make doctrine, the Bible does.

          Second, it is not a sick child that needs discipline and correction, it is the active, energetic, exploring child that needs to be guided. This was so with the Corinthian church. They were using the gifts greatly but improperly and needed to be corrected on their proper use.

          1 Cor. 13 is the main place where the cessationists (those who believe the gifts have ceased) go for their position. However, upon looking at the context, I believe 1 Cor. 13 teaches that the gifts will cease when Jesus returns.

          1. In fact, the truth that we have these differences of opinion should unite us instead of divide us. The reason is simple. When we see that we have differences of opinion, it should humble us because it should bring to light the reality of our sinfulness and limited nature as Christians to fully understand God’s word. Instead of maintaining an attitude of pride where one side condemns the other, we should be more gracious. We should acknowledge the possibility of the other side being right, even though we don’t think so. We need to admit that our sinfulness is the problem, and not the other’s lack of judgment.
          2. There is a single verse where Jesus says to the Jews, “I know you that you do not have the love of God in yourselves” (John 5:42). But it is referring to knowing them as being evil.
          3. However, this is not to say that God is not all knowing. It means that God uses the words “I know you”, “I know them”, etc. as a description of people being in a salvation relationship with God.

            (Quote)

          • Hi JJ,

            Thanks for your response. Please note that there have been many well-written comments in this thread aside from yours and I have responded to them. I make my best efforts to get to things in due time, but as I have already stated, I do not respond to everything and sometimes my schedule does not permit. But I will again address your points. I also ask that you read my post carefully because I think you may have misunderstood some of the things from my most recent post to you.

            1. Your earlier post – Here is Hebrews 1:1-2:

            “God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;”

            I submitted to you that this verse is a clear statement in Scripture that God does not speak to the world through prophets anymore. And in our last back and forth this was your statement:

            “You state in your response “How is my interpretation, that God at once time spoke to us through the prophets, but has now chosen, in this age (the last days) to speak to us by Jesus Christ, incorrect? How is what I said a “misrepresentation” of the passage? I honestly have no idea what music or dancing have to do with this issue. What is your intepretation of the passage?” Let me address this by saying your interpretation is “legalistic” in nature because by using this 1 verse alone you are trumping the rest of the entire bible much in the same way the Church of Christ or Baptist do so with the claim of no music and dancing. One has to take the Bible as a whole and there are many more biblical scriptures that show contradictory to your claim. AF pointed many of these out in his response so once again i direct you back to his 2nd post. Anyone can take one scripture and twist it out of context or misuse it to make it something it isn’t. Even Satan himself used scripture to tempt Jesus in the wilderness by taking it out of context and manipulating it to something it wasn’t.”

            So once again you are accusing me of taking this verse out of context. But you are not explaining what these verses mean. if you are not going to provide your actual explanation of these verses, then we are not having a compelling discussion. What does this passage mean? I don’t know any way else to read it then for what it plainly says: God speaks to the entire world through His Son, not the prophets, who He used “in time past.”

            2. Speaking in tongues –

            Here is your statement on tongues:

            “Speaking in tongues is NOT biblical incorrect!! It is listed as one of the nine spiritual gifts in Corinthians. I Cor 12:1-11 So, how you can claim that this is “leaven from the pharisees”? That is ludicrous & absolutely ridiculous. There is more support to show that “speaking in tongues” and “prophecy” is more biblical than your theory about the nephilim giants. Although your theory is interesting there is no biblical evidence to support your claims of these 20-30 ft giants every existed.”

            I did not say that speaking in tongues, the Biblical way is “leaven from the Pharisees.” I said speaking in tongues in the fashion it is done today, is “leaven from the Pharisees.” Biblical tongues was the speaking of real, foreign languages. Today it is just gibberish being spoken and yelled by a room full of people in a matter that is completely against Scripture.

            As for the Nephilim, simply go to Genesis 6 or Numbers 13 and you will see being referred to as “giants.” And they inspire unprecedented fear in people. Numbers goes out of its way to say these people were so big, they made the Israelites look like grasshoppers in comparison. The grapes that were growing in this area required two men to carry them. Again, what else could this mean except that these men were of superhuman size? Especially when we know that their parentage was supernatural? I know this is a sidepoint but the Biblical evidence for the Nephilim is clear and does not require any reinterpretation of the plain meaning of Scripture.

            Now to your next point on tongues:

            In closing, I would like to say that my personal belief per scripture is that the “gift” of tongues is to be used in the church ONLY WITH someone who can interpret so that the church can be edified and as a prayer language to God in which the Holy Spirit prays for you. And I know you will jump all over this but I also believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit. At the end of the day scripture is all about faith. To a atheist/agnostic they might think we both are crazy b/c we believe in the Bible and that its all a bunch of hogwash. But as true Christians, not only do we know its real b/c of scriptures and the Bible but we also have the experience of letting Jesus into our hearts and a personal relationship with him. In that same way, I know that speaking in tongues is real and prophecy is real. I’ve had words spoken over me that have come to fruition. When I speak in tongues the power of the Holy Spirit comes over me. As a seasoned Christian I know the difference between the Holy Spirit and an evil spirit. If this is biblically uncorrect, how could any of these experiences happen??

            Ok please read this next part of my response carefully. You have just stated your explanation of what speaking in tongues is and I am going to show how it is completely out of line with Scripture.

            The purpose of tongues:

            21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
            22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. – 1 Corinthians 14:21-22.

            This is the purpose of tongues. It is stated with absolute clarity. Tongues are a sign to UNBELIEVERS, and specifically, unbelieving Israel. How can I know this, because Paul is quoting the Old testament in verse 21. Specifically, he is quoting Isaiah 28: Here is that passage:

            7 But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment. 8 For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean. 9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
            11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. 12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. 13 But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken. 14 Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.

            15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves: 16 Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste. 17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place. 18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

            I am not going to go into a detailed analysis of this passage because if understand tongues you should be very familiar with it. But in short, the people of Israel rejected Isaiah’s call to repentance and worship of the True and Living God. They mocked Isaiah instead and ridiculed him, which was by extension rejecting God’s message. This is the patter we see through Scripture: God calls His people to repent and turn back to Him, they reject Him, God pronounces a coming judgment, the people ignore it and fall into calamity. In this instance the judgment was pronounced as coming from “other tongues”, meaning a foreign force would bring judgment upon Israel. This was fulfilled by Assyria destroying the Northern Kingdom. Paul in 1 Corinthians 14 quotes this passage to explain that the speaking of tongues in his time was yet ANOTHER warning of JUDGEMENT to come upon Israel. It was a sign of warning for those who rejected God in the flesh, Jesus Christ. The unbelelieving Jews, who rejected the message of the Gospel preached by The Lord, were now getting the sign of their coming judgment. And when did this judgment take place? what was this judgment? Jesus told us Himself:

            ” O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.” (Matthew 23).

            ” And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.” (Matthew 24).

            That was the judgment Jesus The Lord pronounced to the Jews and it was fulfilled in 70 AD when the temple was destroyed and the nation captured by the Romans. So Biblically we can know the purpose of tongues and you by your own statements are not using “tongues” in the manner and purpose clearly stated by Scripture. Tongues were never supposed to be used in church for preaching and teaching. They were a sign gift that warned UNBELIEVERS of a coming judgment (and by the way, obviously tongues could not just be gibberish and noises otherwise the unbelievers would have no understanding of what was being said or what was even going on – another point Paul emphasizes in 1 Corinthians 14). And that judgment took place. So it seems you have the issue of tongues very wrong here.

            And what compounds this error in so many churches is this false notion that tongues are “evidence of salvation.” This is never said in Scripture and Paul specifically says in 1 Corinthians 12 that different people have different gifts, so right there we know not every Christian would have the ability to speak in tongues. But many churches ignore this and just forge their own “proof of salvation” doctrine which is heretical and has deceived many well-meaning church goers.

            Regarding 1 Corinthians 14:10 – You said I misinterpreted this verse. However, in my comment to you, I did NOT offer an explanation. I merely asked how do YOU interpret that passage. And now you have shared it. So let’s look at it from view:

            “Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
            11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.”

            I never said anything about the completion of the Bible. Paul says prophecies will fail. It’s just that simple, which is why I asked your thoughts on it. And in Chapter 14, Paul elaborates on how prophecy should be done:

            “Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. 30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. 31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. 32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints”

            Is this how you do propecy? With a team of 3 prophets where one prophecies and the other judges the prophecy while everyone in church listens to it?? If not, then you are not following Scripture. And I contend that I know of no church anywhere in the world that does “prophecy” according to the clear Biblical instruction.

            As I said to AF, when I am talking about a “Biblical prophet”, I am talking about someone who has audible conversations with God and is given a message for the world that is equally on par with Scripture. So again I ask you, who are the prophets today? You said you have spoken to them and received prophecy from them? Who are they? You should be naming them because every Christian on Earth should be listening to what they have to say. That is how prophets of God work. There was no prophecy given that was just intended to be heard by one person. Every prophet spoke, under inspiration of God with a message for all people for all time. So why don’t you share some of the divine revelation you have received?

            Claiming to be a prophet is a very, very serious issue. You are literally claiming to have words from God and thus what you say is equivalent to the words of the Bible. So I’m very curious to know who these people are because I have yet to encounter any modern day prophet.

            And finally, I have never attended any seminary. Not to criticize them, but since you asked several times I wanted to respond.

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            • Brethren, the reason that Christians divide because we don’t have the same beliefs. When a matter is being pushed, we tend to answer in a way that we could win the argument. But if you know the heart of God, then you know that what He desire is that His children will be united. Both of you are speaking in a different language.

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              • Hi GodWept – Thanks for your comments. True Christian unity can only be founded upon the eternal truth of God Almighty. And that is found in the Bible. As Christians, the Bible should be our final authority. If we do not adhere to Biblical doctrine, we are not in God’s will. So that unity does not profit us. I am only trying to show, with the use of Scripture in context, what the bible says about modern day “prophets”. If we love God and believe the Bible is His Word, that should be a very easy to understand language.

                I hope I am being clear. I am for unity when we agree to let the Bible speak. But when we contradict it, there is no unity nor should there be.

                “Sanctify them with thy truth. Thy word is truth.” – John 17:17.

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                • B&E states “I hope I am being clear. I am for unity when we agree to let the Bible speak. But when we contradict it, there is no unity nor should there be”.

                  Translation: “I’m for unity when everyone believes the same way I do and interprets scripture the same way I do, otherwise i’m not for unity!!”

                  Since there aren’t too many Bible schoolers and/or Preachers, Priests, Pastors etc that hold the same view as yourself regarding Nephilim and Gen 6 does that mean would should alienate yourself based on your own stmt?

                  Again, i’ve asked for scripture specifically stating these so called “giants” were 20+ ft tall. You have yet to provide such.

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  9. Well, it’s pretty obvious that Katy Perry is a traitor to the Christian faith. The whole thing I find it to be pretty disgusting. If she is truly born-again, she needs to repent. And if not, she should accept Jesus as her Savior. If at any time you sing about Jesus, your life should reflect that. If not, you’re a hypocrite.

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  10. Beginning and End:
    Hi JJ,

    Thanks for your comments. You cited 1 Corinthians 12:10. Paul’s message on spiritual gifts runs from chapters 12-14. How do you interpret this passage?

    And since you said you believe there are prophets today, who hear directly from God in audible conversation, who are these people? Who are some of the modern day prophets you know of?I think this is a very important issue of discussion because many in the church believe in prophecy but rarely do we hear the names of the prophets whose words are equivalent to the Bible itself.So if you care to, please share your thoughts. God bless.

    Another point that must be made is the crazy start of these pentecostal churches, here’s a good article:
    http://wayoflife.org/database/strangehistory.html
    And Brother Cloud also has these free e-books to read on the subject, very enlightening:
    Charismatic Confusion
    http://www.wayoflife.org/free_ebooks/charismatic_confusion.php
    Is Healing in the Atonement?
    http://www.wayoflife.org/free_ebooks/is_healing_in_atonement.php
    The Judge Not Heresy
    http://www.wayoflife.org/free_ebooks/judge_not_heresy.php
    Tongues Speaking
    http://www.wayoflife.org/free_ebooks/tongues_speaking.php

    Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

    And this free e-book by Alfred H. Pohl:
    17 Reasons Why I Left the Tongues Movement
    http://www.wayoflife.org/free_ebooks/17_reasons.php

    it’s good materials to defeat those heresies.
    Another point is that they claim we need more than the Holy Bible but we do not, why would we need some contrary to the Bible “prophecies”? Because when you start looking at what they say it’s very often contrary to the Bible.

    I don’t trust these people, the pentecostals and charismatics was my main objection to Christianity for 20 years, they’re so false even when a person is lost they see through their lies, I used to say if that’s Christianity I want no part of it all, I’d rather go to hell than to have anything thing to do with that insane crowd, many of my friends will go to hell because of them I hate those heresies because of it they’re firm in their belief that that is Christianity, I always have to spend hours explaining how that is not Christianity just like I have to spend hours destroying Roman Catholicism, Orthodoxism and Protestantism because of all the massmurders those devils have done in the name of Christ.

    They brought much damage to the cause of Christ Jesus so nowadays you first have to till the ground and remove all the stones in the field before you can even plant the good seed.

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  11. Oh, shut up!
    I’m not even going to address all the claims in this article. This entire article is outrageous.
    “Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.”
    In regards to Katy Perry and prophecy-are you aware that when she was nine years old, before she even started singing, a prophecy was spoken over her that she would sing in front of kings and queens and presidents? That sure seems to have come true.
    And also-I would like to say, that my mother can speak French as her prayer language. French! She does not know French. How do you explain this?
    Not everybody who speaks in tongues are speaking gibberish. Read up on the Bible some more and you’ll realize how wrong you are, about spiritual gifts, about judging others, and about God’s mercy to sinners.
    I’ll be praying for you.

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  12. Caynon Love says:

    I come to this page confessing Jesus Christ has come in flesh from God. (1 John 4:1-4)

    I Encourage each reader and believer to read the below passages .

    2 Timothy 2: 23-26
    James 3:17-18
    Titus 3:9-11
    Psalm 49:13-20 (Katy perry thought)

    B&E, whomever you are, I thank God for His spirit in you. But I remind you not to let your wisdom cause you to make others trip. Share in Love, and keep your opinions and heart away from the matter. You remind me of Paul, so much, I just want to hug you and tell you good job.
    For you bear with the foolish gladly, being wise. (2 Corinthians 11:19)
    I’d love to have a real conversation with you one day if The Lord wills it. Until then be blessed be less even less talkative with your rebukes, or else your wisdom may become your foolishness .

    I love you all, in the of Jesus Christ I thank Him for your reading of this. May peace be on this site.

    Oh and guys be gentle with one another.

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    • Hi Canyon Love,

      Thanks very much for your kind words and spiritual encouragement. I will indeed keep working to guard my heart from ever being untoward on the site in discussions with others. God bless you abundantly. -B&E

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  13. Your quote of: Of course Scripture makes it clear that there are no more prophets today does not go with me. Yes their might not be prophets any more but 1 Corinthians 12 lists prophecy as one of the gifts of the spirit. The holy spirit can empower you to prophesy.

    Watch what you write as a lot of people come here and read your articles(whateva) and can be misled.

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  14. And I pray that you come to an understanding of the fullness of Chistian truth, which exists in the One Holy Apostolic Catholic Church. Jesus only founded ONE church, and said the gates of hell would not prevail against it, and it hasn’t.

    Gid bless and heal.

    Augusta

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  15. And I pray that you come to an understanding of the fullness of Chistian truth, which exists in the One Holy Apostolic Catholic Church. Jesus only founded ONE church, and said the gates of hell would not prevail against it, and it hasn’t.

    Gid bless and heal.

    Augusta

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  16. Phyllis Poole says:

    The bible really makes christianity a hard thing to follow and understand. It can be misinterpreted so many ways. It made an aethiest of one young man.
    Just remember there are 2 parts to a human: a body and a soul. The body will die in -usually- less than 100 yrs.- and ROT. The soul will live forever———-
    If you please the body in all it’s senses without thought to the soul, you will lose the soul to the devil. If you control the body and use it only to live on earth with the soul’s eventually life in heaven, you will save the soul for heaven. It’s worth it!!!!!
    AND it’s just that simple. Forget most of the bible. Read Moses and remember what God gave Moses:
    the 10 commandments! And the making of the altar -for HIM not us. Then the slaying of the lamb-JESUS took the place of the lamb and we have the consecration of the bread and wine. Forget all else and stay with this part. Make it simple and don’t forget to thank God for all you have…..he’ll give you more of what you need to come to Him someday.

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  17. Katy is mediocre in every way music , talent and especially her looks .
    SHES JUST A SELL OUT . SHE SOLD HER SOUL FOR A COUPLE OF BUCKS AND 5 MIN OF
    TEENAGE ADORATION WHICH WILL FADE SO FAST – THEN SHE WILL BE A HAS BEEN
    SHES A GREEDY SELL OUT WITH NO CLASS NO MORALS A COMPLETE PHONEY
    CANT STAND HER

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  18. tentimes better:
    This may help you .http://www.victorious.org/sprgifts.htm

    This article misunderstands the book of 1 Corinthians completely. The epistle was written to the church in Corinth as a rebuke, not an encouragement. This church was in short, off the rails and doing all manner if unbiblical behaviors. The Apostle Paul’s message is a loving correction to bring them back to proper Biblical doctrine.

    Thus the description of spiritual gifts were to properly identify their purpose and administration. Why? Because the Corinthian church had it wrong. Today many churches are making the exact same error by mislabeling and misusing gifts if the spirit. The discussion below highlights this.

    Furthermore, Katy Perry has said that she used to speak in tongues all the time. And now she has officially renounced the Christian faith. Are you suggesting that she truly had the Holy Spirit in her when she was uttering “tongues”, and now she has abandoned the faith altogether? I hope and pray that you consider this. His bless.

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  19. Thank you for having the courage to write about these issues. Even so, I rebuke you for denying the power of God, and I will be praying for you. Please consider studying exegesis and hermeneutics. Genuinely though, I appreciate your courage. You will need God’s manifest supernatural presence in these times.

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    • Hi John,

      Thanks for your comments. If you would like to show me, Biblically, where I am in error, please do. I am always open to Biblical correction and welcome it. Simply saying “I rebuke you. Go study…” Is not edifying to me or the body.

      So please know that you are by all means welcome to divide Scripture and show where me where I am incorrect. God bless you. -B&E

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      • Thanks B & E; and yes, I will do that this weekend. I’ll post it to this comment section and email it to you if I find the address. Isn’t your interpretation of what is said both reductionist in its intent and tact?

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        • Hey John,

          I don’t understand your question. What do you mean?

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        • Oh and the email is contact@beginningandend.com

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          • Hey thanks,

            Would it not be unedifying for me to rush a response to you when the stakes are so high? The question is this, because you are obviously someone who appreciates attention to detail:

            What I said, “Even so, I rebuke you for denying the power of God, and I will be praying for you. Please consider studying exegesis and hermeneutics.”

            What you said, ““I rebuke you. Go study…” Is not edifying to me or the body.”

            The difference here is between the denotative value of the sentences, and the connotative value. Have you not entirely removed the latter by means of reductionism, established a straw-man to represent the statement, and then attacked the straw man as unedifying?

            Meanwhile, I am interested in your interpretation of this verse, “But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people.” 2 timothy 3:1-5

            Also, I’m interested in your thoughts on the “Belief Disconfirmation Paradigm”

            Thanks

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            • Ah, I follow now. Thanks for clarifying. Yes, you have rebuked me for denying the power of God. Indeed. This is a rather strong charge. And one should be able to support that Biblically. I am not asking you to rush anything. You are the one who chose to levy that accusation at me with absolutely no support to it.

              My point with my answer to you was to promote a standard- that standard being the Bible. We have a responsibility to one another to support what we say with Scripture-especially when rebuking one another. By not doing so we are merely name-calling.

              So as the maxim goes: “he who asserts must prove.” You made the accusation and I am merely asking you to show with rightly divided Scripture where I am in error and where I denied the power of God. Before we move on to other questions or topics I would think the least you could do is provide proper Biblical teaching for us all to support your very strong rebuke. And as I said, I welcome it. God bless.

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              • Thanks,

                Yes, specifically the rhema. If I’ve called you a name, which one would that be?

                And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

                You indicated that this, as the verb “to give” was conjugated in the past tense and that this provided the implication that it therefor followed that this was no longer the case. Correct me if I’m wrong. Who gave these abilities and to whom did he give them?

                “And I acknowledged that there were real prophets of God in the New testament (Agabus being an example). But we soon see them fade away and no longer mentioned. The reason why pastors and teachers still exist today is because their work is not based on supernatural impartation of the Holy Spirit. Whereas a prophet is.”

                Who is the “we” that see these things “fade away.” I am not a part of that “we”. If you are referring to humanity in general, i would ask how you can posit an absolute in something which would require omniscience. You then go on to give reasons for the generalization fallacy. Would you please provide me with scriptural references as a basis for this? Please do not provide, the “will cease” scripture, as the contextual reference for that is at and following the second coming and therefore not experientially relevant to contemporary experience.

                Please explain why I should reject the words of The Christ when He said, “Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves.

                12 “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father. 13 Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask me[a] anything in my name, I will do it.” John 14:10-14

                Did Jesus prophecy? Was that a work that he referenced? Did he prophecy, not only regarding the accurate interpretation of Jewish scripture, but also with regard to future events? Was He able to heal people? Did Jesus hear from the Father? Did Jesus only hear from The Father by reading New Testament scripture (obviously absurd)?

                While I await your own response/support for the appeal to experience, can you explain to me, on that basis, why one should reject an experience to the opposite? Was Jesus accused of casting out devils by the power of Satan? Should one follow in line of reasoning, and even upon witnessing people speak unnatural wisdom; heal people of crippling illnesses, and make predictions years in advance that come to pass; should I say, indeed, only the working of Satan could produce such works?

                John

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                • 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

                  20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

                  21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

                  22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit. -Ephesians 2:19-22.

                  9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God’s husbandry, ye are God’s building.

                  10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

                  11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.- 1 Corinthians 3:9-11.

                  The foundation of the church has been laid (past tense). We are labourers building upon that foundation. The Lord gave Apostles and prophets to make the foundation. Himself being the cornerstone. And NO new foundation can be built.

                  Scripture is clear and consistent. The foundation was laid 2,000 years ago.

                  Regarding the Apostles doing greater things than Christ, we see it in Scripture. The Lord travelled roughly 30 miles in His Ministry. The apostles took the Gospel throughout Asia Minor and the Mediterranean. The Gospel has since spread globally. And they received an impartation of the Holy Spirit to perform supernatural feats to establish that they were sent of Hod – the same reason Jesus performed miracles. And eventually that ended with them. Why else would Paul instruct Timothy to drink wine for his ailing stomach? Why not just tell him “Timothy, heal thyself!”? Look at Paul’s testimony of being shipwrecked, beaten, jailed, starving and many more calamities. Why didn’t he just pray for rescue since he can receive “anything”?? Your interpretation of John 10 does not line up with Scripture.

                  If you truly believe that a Christian can pray for any miracle-working ability The Lord used on Earth, then I must assume that you have that ability, correct? Are you a prophet? Can you cure disease or raise the dead to life?

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                  • Again, my recommendation to study exegesis and hermeneutics. You have “read into the text.” That is, you impose your presuppositions. The “foundation” of your argument is literally a non-sequiter, and again, a straw man as well in that it takes what is written, formulates something foreign as its conceptual representative, and then proceeds to dry to deduce information from the straw man. I have personally heard many words from God, specific words in my spirit, confirmed over and over again. I have seen friend of mine who was in a car accident and had four cracked ribs be healed in the middle of a church service; I felt the ribs. I do not carry the office of a prophet, but I have been given words, yes, and I know others who have been given specific words about the future which have come to pass exactly as they spoke them. Whose workings are these? If these are the workings of Satan, by what measure do you condemn them?

                    Now, I have responded to your questions and statements, will you please respond specifically to the scripture and questions I’ve raised thus far?

                    Also: check out “Gift and Giver: The Holy Spirit for Today” by Craig S. Keener if you get a chance

                    Thank you

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                  • Hi John,

                    You still have not divided Scripture to show me how I am wrong. Why not just explain the verses in question and show Biblically, how other verses and portions on Scripture support your accusation. You accused me of denying the power of God and have only quoted 2 passages with no explanation of their meaning or application in this discussion. Hence me having to guess what you mean. With all due respect you’re talking around the issue (and you did not answer my questions regarding Paul and Timothy or whether YOU personally have the power to heal, raise the dead, etc). Just jump in the text and employ the exegesis and hermeneutics that you keep recommending I study.

                    And I have already said numerous times that a Biblical prophet has audible conversations with The Lord. So saying you hear from God in your spirit is not germane to this topic.

                    I know I am really holding you to specific points but again you have made a very, very serious accusation and have not supported it with rightly-divided Scripture.

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                  • All I can do for you at this point is pray. I also tell you that your pride will not allow you to consider alternative interpretations to your established doctrine. You do not respect what I’ve spoken, nor will you. Your mind is set, and that is that.

                    “To give truth to him who loves it not is to only give him more multiplied reasons for misinterpretation.” George McDonald

                    Which is exactly what you do. You redefine, and redefine prophet until it is so narrow that you can avoid your own cognitive dissonance.

                    In light of the last quote, this will be my last response.

                    Now, to what you’ve stated, I will do what you have not and respond in detail to the points you’ve raised.

                    You both limit God and profess unlimited knowledge with regard to His will when you state there are no more prophets-until you de-supernaturlized them to reduce the power of their office such that it stems from the power of the mind of man rather than the supernatural impartation of the Holy Spirit of God, that spirit which was in Christ and is now in every born again believer. You deny healing. These are just a few of the gifts given amongst the body, each serving a different function. Why did Paul not heal himself? Was Paul granted the gift of healing? We know he was granted the gifts of tongues, which are fine so long as they are again reduced to something fair more natural and palatable to the carnal mind. Does God permit tribulation during the process of sanctification? That could be, but is not necessarily the reason for Pauls suffering. God did not promise that because some of you have the ability to heal, that none of your will suffer. Or even that those with their gifts are yielded enough to the Spirit to use them. You will accept prophets of the first church, but not the gift of healing…the reason for that distinction is unclear. A prophet need not hear audible to deliver a word regarding that which will come to pass in the future; I’ve delivered such words and they have been true. The foundation of the church is the truth of Christ’s identity. That which follows is building on that truth. Consider also, that prophecy does not mean new revelation, it is easily testable against the back drop of scripture.

                    You are too prideful to consider apposing positions. Are you so sure you are right in this? Has God chosen to eliminate so many supernatural giftings in this time based entirely on your opinion which you derive from ignorance and the fervent embrace of logical fallacy.

                    We are in trouble brother; a house divided cannot stand. If you are a member of the body, you’ve put that dividing wall up built on the foundation of your own hubris.

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                  • Hi John,

                    Well I guess we will agree to disagree. If you look at your posts, they are mostly accusation. Where are the exegesis and hermeneutics? You say a prophet does not have to hear God audibly even though all of the Biblical prophets did. You say the Apostle Paul did not have the gift if healing even though he was bitten by a poisonous snake and shook it off with no injury at all.

                    You said we can do greater miracles that Jesus but you have not provided one example of this. And you cite John 10 to say we can ask for ANYTHING and when I ask if you personally can heal or raise the dead, you do not answer.

                    If wanting substantive support for your claims and accusations makes me “prideful” then I am guilty as charged. I apologize if I offended you but I was only being stern in light of your initial accusation. I believe in miracles. I believe in supernatural power. I believe Angels will one day be walking openly among humanity. I certainly believe in the supernatural aspects of Scripture. But I do not believe the impartation once given to the Apostles is in effect today. And I believe Scripture supports that.

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                  • Oh and I know I have said this to others many times- but if you are a prophet, what is your prophecy? You should be sharing it with the world. So what was it?

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  20. Dr. Louie Rossique says:

    This father and pastor is a very frank man in G-d to speak in such a way. This makes him a remarkable preacher and sincere believer. I believe that He will honor him by making Kate a showcase for the world to see. She is in a satanic roller- coaster ride that none can stop but G-d. May she find grace in time!

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  21. Billy Bones III says:

    My understanding in this is that we now have an advocate in heaven who speaks for us to the Father. We, as believers in His death, burial and resurrection, no longer need a prophet since He is our Saviour and High Priest and that is the Messiah Jesus, God in flesh.
    We must be very careful with context here because prophets spoke to Jews on behalf of God. In the NT prophets were referred to in connection with Jewish converts. (You must consult with a Bible scholar on this subject.)
    Prophets today are usually connected to an heretical sect such as Mormons(LDS). These prophets are elected by earthly individuals who themselves have been elected. We must be very careful here since God called His prophets and they were severely tested. Fakes were stoned.
    We must be clear in that a prophet who repeats something he’s read in the Bible is NOT a prophet. He’s a preacher or teacher. If that was the case we would/could all be prophets. Right?
    This poor girl is misguided and needs our prayers as does her misguided father. If he attends her concerts, he’s part of it.

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  22. Billy Bones III says:

    My understanding in this is that we now have an advocate in heaven who speaks for us to the Father. We, as believers in His death, burial and resurrection, no longer need a prophet since He is our Saviour and High Priest and that is the Messiah Jesus, God in flesh.
    We must be very careful with context here because prophets spoke to Jews on behalf of God. In the NT prophets were referred to in connection with Jewish converts. (You must consult with a Bible scholar on this subject.)
    Prophets today are usually connected to an heretical sect such as Mormons(LDS). These prophets are elected by earthly individuals who themselves have been elected. We must be very careful here since God called His prophets and they were severely tested. Fakes were stoned.
    We must be clear in that a prophet who repeats something he’s read in the Bible is NOT a prophet. He’s a preacher or teacher. If that was the case we would/could all be prophets. Right?
    This poor girl is misguided and needs our prayers as does her misguided father. If he attends her concerts, he’s part of it.

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  23. These particular ET’s are not nuts and bolts space travelers they are interdimensional beings plane and simple. Their actions are strange because of their origin and thats all there is to it. They were labeled by even more evil humans that started and ran religious organizations. Those have done way more harm to humans than interdimensional beings. We are simple life forms to them and they treat us generally better than we treat ourselves. Jacque Valle has probably along with others he worked with figured them completely out and we might not really be in charge of ourselves, they might actually be why we are miserable or maybe not. They could very well be proof that this is a simulation and they are simply the trixters. It probably is so incredible we simply can’t handle or fathom the reality of it all. I wouldn’t trust anything the catholics are pushing though and neither would all the dead and molested that have been left in their tracks.

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  24. Craig Furlong says:

    After reading most of the posts here, I stand by B&E. His Biblical views on (1) speaking in tongues and (2) prophecy match up almost exactly with John MacArthur’s new book, “Strange Fire”.

    I have MacArthur’s book, and it is a blessing to read. B&E’s detractors would profit from it if they read with open eyes (while praying for wisdom and understanding).

    Answers are always found by completely trusting in God and His Word.
    Remember, “Trust & obey, for there’s no other Way…”

    Again, please read “Strange Fire” by Pastor John MacArthur.
    Grace and peace to you in the Lord Jesus Christ.

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  25. I’m going to keep this short bc the scripture you continue to use is actually proof that because of Jesus we ALL have access to the voice of the Holy Spirit, not only the “prophets.” The veil was torn. We now have the honor of being filled with the Holy Spirit and receiving revelation of who God is..not new doctrine.
    And as far as Paul using scripture to attack tongues, he is the one who said “I thank my God I speak in tongues more than you all.” Bc he knew the benefit of it…it is a tool. The Holy Spirit speaking through and interceding for us when we don’t know what to pray. (Biblical)

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  26. I’m going to keep this short bc the scripture you continue to use is actually proof that because of Jesus we ALL have access to the voice of the Holy Spirit, not only the “prophets.” The veil was torn. We now have the honor of being filled with the Holy Spirit and receiving revelation of who God is..not new doctrine.
    And as far as Paul using scripture to attack tongues, he is the one who said “I thank my God I speak in tongues more than you all.” Bc he knew the benefit of it…it is a tool. The Holy Spirit speaking through and interceding for us when we don’t know what to pray. (Biblical)

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  27. can you delte that one i gona share another but not so messed up ty !

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  28. There prob both fallen angels ,,, deception thats there thing,,, how many souls they can take with them?

    and this is for all who fall into there trap ,,, 2Corinthians 4:4
    In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

    ” EnTer – Taining? ANGELs?? Un- Aware???

    as they steal ur soul !

    Jesus come to set the captives free, and whom the son sets free is free indeed

    Why He came to make a show of them and expose them openly, so you would not be decieved

    the world is soon to wake up with a rude awakening

    as the false prophet and anti christ rise revelation 13

    they all intwined !

    be not decievd was Jesus first warning in matthew to His disciples when they asked Jesus, when shall the end times be, and your returning

    Look Up cuz bible says when they sign the 7 year covenant that starts the 7 year tribulation

    and before the anti christ is revealed we not supose to be here

    but he will be the one confirming the isreal and palestine Peace Treaty wth many

    does that tell you how close we are ! It’s all in the bible ! http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation+13+&version=KJV

    that script shares what they gona do to them who believe them instead of God

    satan not only comes as wickedness but as a angel of Light

    and his dominion the fallen angels, that are ministering right now to us !

    Ministering to the World !

    bible says he is the god of this World

    he is playing the harp, as everyone falls apart and he decieves

    and they don’t evan know it

    think sin is in and cool ! he been doing this for a long time

    as i was just sharen on katy i found this page

    as he setting up the next generation to worship him

    maken him there god as they doing now

    hell was not a place created for us, but them !

    and why they doing what they doing cuz they messed up !

    bible says they come to steal, kill and destroy John 10:10

    and we wrestle not flesh and blood ephesians 6:10-18

    You do not have to worship satan or the beast, in a church setting, and/or synagogue https://www.facebook.com/notes/-how-to-survive-in-this-world-and-make-it-to-the-other-side-/chapter-four-s-u-r-v-v-i-n-g-ur-p-r-e-d-i-t-o-r-s-e-x-p-o-s-i-n-g-the-doctrines-/402591646509083

    ” EnTer – Taining? ANGELs?? Un- Aware???
    https://www.facebook.com/notes/idol-minds/-enter-taining-angels-un-aware-idol-minds/479591928794484

    Enemies of our soul is always trying to keep us in turmoil and division, hating God, by tryn to keep you bound to a chain and stealing your soul, and keep you doing nothing while we entertain them !

    GOOD ~Vs~ EVIL

    We in a war and not just a physical war you see but a spiritual one

    Hebrews 13:2
    King James Version (KJV)

    2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+13&version=KJV

    2 Corinthians 11:14

    King James Version (KJV)

    14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Corinthians+11&version=KJV

    2 Corinthians 11
    King James Version (KJV)

    13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

    14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

    15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Corinthians%2011&version=KJV

    1 Peter 5:8
    King James Version (KJV)

    8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Peter%205&version=KJV

    Matthew 10:16
    King James Version (KJV)

    16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2010&version=KJV

    2 Corinthians 11:3
    King James Version (KJV)

    3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Corinthians%2011&version=KJV

    Genesis 3
    King James Version (KJV)

    3 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

    2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

    3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

    4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

    5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+3&version=KJV

    Ephesians 6:10-18
    King James Version (KJV)

    10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

    11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

    12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

    13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

    14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

    15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

    16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

    17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

    18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints; http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=ephesians+6%3A10-18&version=KJV

    John 10:10
    King James Version (KJV)

    10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john+10&version=KJV

    1 John 4
    King James Version (KJV)

    4 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. https://www.facebook.com/note.php?saved&&note_id=495885333758055

    2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Verses-About-Powers-and-Principalities/

    3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Verses-About-Evil-Spirits/

    4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+john+4&version=KJV

    1 Peter 5:7-11
    King James Version (KJV)

    7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.

    8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

    9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

    10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

    11 To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Peter%205&version=KJV

    ♥✞♥ For God so Loved the World https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151020187063159&set=a.10151020187023159.438354.588723158&type=1&theater

    Luke 22:31-34
    King James Version (KJV

    And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2022&version=KJV But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

    ENTER – TAINING ~ANGELs~ UN – AWARE ???

    be not decieved; https://www.facebook.com/notes/truth-shall-set-you-fee/god-vs-satan/273253926114749

    James 2:19-20
    King James Version (KJV

    19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James%202&version=KJV

    Spiritual Warfare is Real, We Wrestle Not Flesh and Blood https://www.facebook.com/notes/-how-to-survive-in-this-world-and-make-it-to-the-other-side-/cover-chapter-title-survival-kit-7-how-to-survive-in-this-world-and-make-it-to-t/388752441226337

    Hell not a place Created for Us but them ! https://www.facebook.com/notes/hell-aka-eternal-damnation/hell-aka-eternal-damnation-click-here2/161238803980707

    1 John 4:1 -
    King James Version (KJV)

    Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God http://aletheiaministry.com/evil%20spirits%20list.html

    Colossians 2:6-15
    King James Version (KJV)

    15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Colossians+2%3A6-15&version=KJV

    WE WRESTLE NOT FLESH AND BLOOD; UR WEAPONS OF WARFARE; https://www.facebook.com/notes/-how-to-survive-in-this-world-and-make-it-to-the-other-side-/cover-chapter-title-survival-kit-7-how-to-survive-in-this-world-and-make-it-to-t/388752441226337

    ENTER – TAINING ~ANGELs~ UN – AWARE ???
    https://www.facebook.com/notes/gotz-funnies/-enter-taining-angels-un-aware-/383021091794851

    2 Corinthians 10:4 (KJV )

    http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/book.php?book=2+Corinthians&chapter=10&verse=4 (For the Weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;

    W E A P O N s of W A R F A R E !

    Ur W E A P O N s of W A R F A R E !

    http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Verses-About-Weapons-of-Warfare/

    ✞ C a n ‘t F i g h t A ” S p i r i t u a l ✞ W a r ” I n t h e F l e s h, M u s t b e I n t h e S p i r i t ✞

    No Weapon formed against, You ~ a.k.a ~ also known as ~ Us, shall Prosper ! Colossians 2:9-10 (KJV) 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Colossians%202&version=KJV

    Colossians 2:6-15
    King James Version (KJV)

    6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

    7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

    8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

    9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

    11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

    12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

    13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

    14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

    15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. https://www.facebook.com/notes/-how-to-survive-in-this-world-and-make-it-to-the-other-side-/chapter-two-s-u-r-v-i-v-a-l-k-i-t-7-what-is-our-s-u-r-v-i-v-a-l-k-i-t-our-s-u-r-/377308465704068

    It’s not what satan or them devil/s wait to do on the side lines, but what God is doing !

    Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand ♥✞♥ http://www.biblegateway.com/

    S A V E D ??? [Click Here:] https://www.facebook.com/notes/jcs-sheepiator/saved-click-here/463518190328103

    And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Colossians+2%3A6-15&version=KJV

    Psalm 91:11-16
    King James Version (KJV)

    11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.

    12 They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.

    13 Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: the young lion and the dragon shalt thou trample under feet.

    14 Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name.

    15 He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him.

    16 With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation.
    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm%2091&version=KJV

    http://noahsark.forumchitchat.com/

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