Who Are The 144,000?

144,000 witnesses revealed The Gospel to Israel After the Rapture Prophecy explained

Scripture reveals the identity of the 144,000 witnesses of Revelation chapter 7.

– Who are the 144,000 Witnesses of Revelation Chapter 7? A Biblical Study –

They are one of the most mysterious groups mentioned in the Bible. Many sects and cults have claimed to literally be them. But who are the 144,000 witnesses mentioned in Revelation chapter 7? Are these the only people who make it to Heaven? Are these supernatural beings who will descend to Earth in the end times? This article will identify the 144,000 based on Bible Scripture and their very important role in God restoring the nation of Israel and the world in the final days before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.

The 144,000

And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Of the tribe of Judah were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand. – Revelation 7:1-8.

The most important aspect of interpreting Bible Scripture is to examine the verses in context. In our article The Red Moon Rapture – Biblical Timing of The Rapture, we detailed the events of the 6th seal of Revelation chapter 6. The Rapture of the church takes place at its opening and is immediately followed by a massive, global earthquake that sends the most powerful, wealthiest people on Earth literally running for the hills. The entire sinful world, who rejected God, will realize that the wrath of God has begun. Chapter 6 ends with the exclamation:

And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? – Revelation 6:15-17.

This is important to understand the context as we head into chapter 7. The Apostle John, the author of the book of Revelation was called up to Heaven in the spirit to record the events of the end of the world. From his heavenly perspective he was shown events on both Earth and Heaven. And clearly, the events of the 6th seal (a massive global earthquake, people running and hiding in caves and holes in fear for their lives, etc) are taking place on Earth. So it is critical to understand that as chapter 7 begins, we are still in the events of the 6th seal. The 7th seal has not been opened yet. [B&E: as a side note, this should give the reader of the Rapture series more confirmation that the 6th seal is the time of the Rapture and the start of the end times Day of The Lord. Each of the preceding 5 seals in Revelation 6 were given about 3-4 verses of description. On the other hand, the Apostle John devotes one and a half chapters worth of Scripture to detail all the events of the Sixth Seal].

Now that the Rapture has taken place and all born again Christian have been removed from Earth, God returns His attention to the nation of Israel. As detailed in our article The Day of The Lord – The Event That Starts The End of The World, this is one of the primary purposes of the end times: The Lord’s plan to reconcile the nation of Israel to believing faith in Jesus Christ the Messiah. From the time Christ was rejected by Israel during His ministry on earth, He prophesied to the nation of Israel that they would walk in spiritual blindness:

And when he was come near, he beheld the city [Jerusalem], and wept over it, Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes. For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation. – Luke 19:40-44.

The Lord Jesus was informing the Israelites that had they known the prophetic signs detailed in the Old Testament, all of which Jesus had fulfilled, they would not have missed the time of “their visitation.” But because they had rejected the Messiah, they were going to suffer spiritual blindness. This is confirmed in Romans Chapter 11:

What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded. (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day. And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them: Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway… For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. – Romans 11:7-11, 25-27.

This is a very important passage to understand the ultimate plan of God in the end times. Paul calls it a “mystery” – meaning this is divine revelation that had not been disclosed prior to the writing of these verses. The Apostle Paul makes it very clear: the nation of Israel, the actual lineage of the same Israelites alive at the time of Christ, were walking in “blindness in part.” There would be a lack of understanding and belief in the Gospel of Jesus Christ among the Israelite people. And of course this is seen in Israeli culture as the overwhelming majority of people today still do not believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God or Messiah. And they are still awaiting their Messiah to come.

But the passage goes on to say that this blindness would last “until the fullness of the Gentiles is come in.” The fullness of the Gentiles is the full amount of members of the Church – the believers in Jesus Christ who put their faith in the Biblical Gospel. The church reaches its fullness at the Rapture, when it is supernaturally removed from the Earth, to the clouds to meet Jesus Christ in the air and go to Heaven. The Greek for the phrase “come in” is eiserchomai and it means “to enter.” It is the same phrase used by Jesus in Matthew 5:20 when He said: “For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter [eiserchomai] into the kingdom of heaven.”  It is at this time that The Lord returns his attention to the nation of Israel and pours out the spirit of “grace and supplication” to start the process of their redemption to saving faith. The prophet Ezekiel prophesied of this end times revival among the people of Israel:

Prophesy therefore concerning the land of Israel, and say unto the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I have spoken in my jealousy and in my fury, because ye have borne the shame of the heathen: Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I have lifted up mine hand, Surely the heathen that are about you, they shall bear their shame. But ye, O mountains of Israel, ye shall shoot forth your branches, and yield your fruit to my people of Israel; for they are at hand to come. For, behold, I am for you, and I will turn unto you, and ye shall be tilled and sown:

Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name’s sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. – Ezekiel 36.

God is going to work unilaterally to call Israel to repentance and faith in Jesus Christ. Jesus confirmed the same when He said:

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. – Luke 13:34-35.


Am I one of the 144,000? | The identiy of the 144,000 revealed.

“Study to show thyself approved..” We must look to Scripture alone to find answers to prophetic questions.

And thus this is why right after the opening of the 6th seal, when the Church has been removed from Earth, we see God preparing the 144,000 Israelite witnesses to share the Gospel with the Israelites and the world at large. We will now go directly to the verses from the passage to show God’s plan at work:

“And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.”

The four angels are positioned around the earth holding the four winds of the Earth. As we explained in our article “Who Are The Four Horsemen Of The Apocalypse”, the first four seals opened in Revelation 6 released spiritual beings in the form of horses and riders. In Zechariah 6, we are given the interpretation of who these beings are:

In the Septuagint, the oldest version of the Old Testament (translated from the original paleo-Hebrew which the ancient copies of the Old Testament were written in) the verse reads that they are “four winds that stand before the throne of God.” In Revelation Chapter 6, as Jesus Christ open the first four seals of the Book handed to Him from The Lord God, these four spirits or winds are sent into Earth during the Church Age to bring various forms of judgment all over the planet in the form of religious deception, wars and rumors of wars, famine and death through pestilence and disease.

Once the Church Age ends with the Rapture at the end of Chapter 6, these four winds are then reassigned. In Chapter 7 they are held by four high-ranking angels who are preparing to unleash them once again to destroy the land, sea and trees of the earth as a part of the judgments of the Day of The Lord. So we see a complete consistent transition from chapter 6 to chapter 7.

It is also important to note here that the events the Apostle John is viewing here are still on Earth. The four angels are on Earth. The four winds they are holding are on Earth.

“And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.”

A fifth angel now appears on the scene telling the first four angels who were sent to bring forth judgment against the earth, trees and sea, to wait. They are to hold off on unleashing the judgments of the four winds until the servants of the God have been sealed in their foreheads. Here we see the special distinction of the 144,000. They are a chosen group, who will fulfill a specific task for The Lord during the end times.

“And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.”

Scripture clearly identifies the 144,000: they are children of Israel. It is important to note that when Scripture uses the term “children of Israel” it is referring to the lineage of Abraham. It is not a reference to the Church. The Church, in their spiritual connection to Abraham through faith are referred to as “Jews” and the “seed of Abraham” in Scripture, adopted into the family of God through faith in Christ. However the term “children of Israel” refers to national Israel. In the New Testament, the phrase “children of Israel” is only used 14 times, and each is a reference to the descendants of the twelve sons of Jacob (who was renamed Israel by The Lord). The 144,000 are actual ethnic Israelite descendants. Scripture goes on to make this very clear by specifying each tribe:

Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

The Mission of The 144,000

Am I one of the 144,000? | The identiy of the 144,000 revealed.

The 144,000 are sealed and then sent out to preach the Gospel.


“A true witness delivereth souls..” – Proverbs 14:25.

The 144,000 along with 2 witnesses of Revelation 11 (who will be covered in our study on that chapter) are primary witnesses of the Gospel on Earth. Jesus Christ prophesied that the Gospel of the Kingdom would be preached in the final days before His Second Coming. The Gospel of the Kingdom was what Jesus, John the Baptist and disciples preached at the beginning of their ministries. It was an announcement that “the kingdom is at hand” meaning the Messiah is about to arrive! This was John the Baptist’s message in the early days of Jesus’ ministry:

In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. – Matthew 3:1-3.


The Gospel of the Kingdom is what Jesus commanded His disciples to share with the people of Israel in the beginning of their ministry. Luke chapter 10 details a special group of seventy witnesses, selected by Jesus, to go out with the twelve disciples to witness the Gospel of the Kingdom:

After these things the LORD appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come. Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest. Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves. Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way. And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house.
And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again. And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house. And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you: And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you. – Luke 10:1-9.

This special envoy of witnesses were instructed specifically to preach that the “kingdom of God is nigh unto you.” It was a bold proclamation that the prophesied Messiah was preparing His arrival and Scripture is about to be fulfilled, so the people were to repent of their sins and prepare their hearts by believing in faith in Him. After the Rapture, when Israel will once again be the focus of God’s plans, the same Gospel message will be preached as it will only be a matter of years until the Second Coming of The Lord at Armageddon. Jesus confirmed this when teaching on the end times in Matthew 24.

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. – Matthew 24:14.

The Gospel of the Kingdom will be preached and Jesus Christ will have His specially assigned witnesses deliver the messages.

Foreshadow Of The 144,000

Ezekiel chapter 9 contains a foreshadow of the designation of the 144,000. In Ezekiel chapter 8, God gave the prophet a special insight into how far into spiritual idolatry, satanic witchcraft and the occult, Israel had fallen. God took Ezekiel to a place to look inside the temple, the most sacred location for the entire nation. There Ezekiel saw that the priests of the temple, who were appointed to carry out all of the duties to maintain the temple and carry out the ritual sacrifices of atonement, were secretly adepts in the occult:

And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD’s house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east. Then he said unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? Is it a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here? for they have filled the land with violence, and have returned to provoke me to anger: and, lo, they put the branch to their nose. Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them. – Ezekiel 8:16-18.

The priests working in the Holy temple were secretly worshiping the sun and engaging in occult practices. This is how far gone Israel was from God. In Chapter 9, God prepared His righteous judgment to punish Israel for their worship of other gods.

He cried also in mine ears with a loud voice, saying, Cause them that have charge over the city to draw near, even every man with his destroying weapon in his hand. And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer’s inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar. And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer’s inkhorn by his side;
And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof. And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house. And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city. – Ezekiel 9:1-7.

All the men who still believed and worshiped The Lord were given a mark in their foreheads to signify their faith. So before the avenging angel carried out his punishment to kill the idolaters, they were designated. This is a type and shadow of what will happen to the 144,000. The world will be in a complete state of spiritual confusion after all born again Christians have been raptured at the opening of the sixth seal. The Antichrist will be emerging on the world scene but not yet the global ruler he will become. It is at this time God will call out the 144,000 to be His servants on Earth to share the Gospel.

Their Supernatural Protection

Just as the faithful men in Ezekiel 9 were protected from judgment, so will the 144,000. At the sounding of the 5th trumpet judgment in Revelation 9, a supernatural demonic army will be released from the bottomless pit (also known as the abyss), a prison of demons and fallen angels:

And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.  And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.– Revelation 9:1-5.

This supernatural, demonic army from the abyss will invade the world openly. And they will torment all people on the Earth for five months. They will cause so much pain and suffering that people will wish they could die rather than suffer the torment from these beings. And the 144,000 will be protected from their attacks. Like the Israelites in Goshen in the days of the Exodus, who were protected from the plagues sent by God while the Egyptians suffered, this supernatural protection of the 144,000 will serve as a clear sign that God is truly with these men. Thus giving more evidence that they were truly sent from God. In the Gospels, Jesus, during the time of His earthly ministry, told His selected 70 witnesses they would also have supernatural ability to show the world as a sign of their being sent by Him:

 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. – Luke 10:17-20.

Just as the 70 witnesses were given power over serpents, demonic forces, referred to as “serpents and scorpions”, so too will the 144,000 witnesses of the Great Tribulation have power over the demonic army from the pit, whose power is like scorpions.

The End Of Their Ministry

And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father’s name written in their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the first fruits unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God. – Revelation 14:1-5.

In Revelation 14, we see the 144,000 in Heaven, on Mt. Sion, the heavenly mountain of God (the identification of Mount Sion as a Heavenly mountain and not the earthly Mount Zion is confirmed in Hebrews chapter 12). It is clear at this point that the 144,000 are dead and thus “redeemed from the Earth”. It is this author’s contention that the 144,000 will be some of the first victims of the Great Persecution carried out by the Antichrist that commences in Revelation 13. The Antichrist once he has received the Beast spirit that emerges from the bottomless pit, will assume full global control as God-King. And one of his first acts will be to persecute all people on Earth who proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ. And the 144,000 along with the 2 witnesses will be killed in his persecution. [B&E: The Great Persecution of The Antichrist will be explored in more detail in our studies on chapters 13 and 14 of Revelation].

This is why the 144,000 will be considered “first fruits” unto God. They are the first of the “harvest” of end times Israelite and Gentile believers who will return to God through faith in Jesus Christ. Revelation 14 is a chapter that chronicles the persecution and murder of believers by the Antichrist – but it is from the Heavenly perspective. John is seeing events in Heaven and this is a Divine Harvest. While the death of the 144,000 may seem sad on Earth, their martyrdom is a glorious event in Heaven as these chosen servants have finally united with Christ their Savior in Heaven.

From this passage the Bible confirms that these witnesses will also be men who have not had intimate relations with women (they are called “virgins”). And for their service in the Great Tribulation, they are given the honor of singing a song of praise to The Lord that no angel or human in Heaven has ever sung before. Now in Heaven, they are redeemed and forgiven of any sins before God and remain in the presence of Jesus Christ forever.

This is the full Biblical analysis of the 144,000 in Scripture. But the story does not end here because in modern day theology, there is so much controversy about this group. So the next section will attempt to address some of the most common questions raised about the 144,00.


Revelation 7 | Jehovah's Witness doctrine exposed | Seventh Day Adventist False Teachings on 144,000

There are many false teachings about the 144,000 of Revelation chapter 7.

How do the 144,000 witnesses know what tribe of Israel they are from?

Although some people in Israel today can identify their lineage all the way back to the days of Jesus Christ, there are many Israelis who cannot. So how will the 144,000 know their tribal origin? Looking at Scripture, they do not need to know. The 144,000 are not volunteers – they are divinely selected and marked by angels who seal them with the sign of God. The angels who seal the 144,000 know who they are and will identify them at the appointed time. This is a supernatural process. God is now actively working, via divine power and agency to bring salvation to Israel. And since God knows everyone’s lineage, the angels he sends will have no problem identifying the 144,000.

Where is the tribe of Dan?

In the list of twelve tribes in Revelation 7, the tribe of Dan is not included. In most lists of the twelve tribes in Scripture, the tribes of Levi was not there (because their inheritance was The Lord) and neither was Joseph (because Jospeh’s sons, Ephraim and Manasseh were adopted by Jacob and they were counted as part of the 12 tribes in place of Joseph).  Dan is always listed until the end times list in Revelation 7.  So why is Dan not there? That answer can be found in the book of Judges:

And when they were a good way from the house of Micah, the men that were in the houses near to Micah’s house were gathered together, and overtook the children of Dan. And they cried unto the children of Dan. And they turned their faces, and said unto Micah, What aileth thee, that thou comest with such a company? And he said, Ye have taken away my gods which I made, and the priest, and ye are gone away: and what have I more? and what is this that ye say unto me, What aileth thee? And the children of Dan said unto him, Let not thy voice be heard among us, lest angry fellows run upon thee, and thou lose thy life, with the lives of thy household. And the children of Dan went their way: and when Micah saw that they were too strong for him, he turned and went back unto his house.


And they took the things which Micah had made, and the priest which he had, and came unto Laish, unto a people that were at quiet and secure: and they smote them with the edge of the sword, and burnt the city with fire. And there was no deliverer, because it was far from Zidon, and they had no business with any man; and it was in the valley that lieth by Bethrehob. And they built a city, and dwelt therein. And they called the name of the city Dan, after the name of Dan their father, who was born unto Israel: howbeit the name of the city was Laish at the first. And the children of Dan set up the graven image: and Jonathan, the son of Gershom, the son of Manasseh, he and his sons were priests to the tribe of Dan until the day of the captivity of the land. And they set them up Micah’s graven image, which he made, all the time that the house of God was in Shiloh.

Rather than take their part of the Promised Land as Joshua had commanded them to do years earlier, Dan continued as nomads, traveling for land they preferred. When they finally decided to enter their designated area, they robbed the home of a man named Micah who was a worshiper of false gods. Micah also hired a corrupt Levite priest to work for him in leading his demonic worship. The Danites forced the priest to come with them and serve them once and their nation was established they fell into spiritual idolatry, setting up a new religion centered on the stolen idols and graven images. This flagrant rebellion against God was reminiscent of when the Israelites worshiped the golden calf while Moses was on Mt. Sinai receiving the Ten Commandments from God. This sin was so severe that thousands of men were executed as a result. Now decades later, in the Promised Land, the tribe of Dan was taking their sin to the next level. Scripture states that the graven images of false gods were set up in Dan until the time of the Assyrian captivity. So for centuries, the nation of Dan was a center of pagan worship and a rejection of God right in the Promised Land.

Further confirming that they were most likely disqualified from being a part of the end times revival of Israel were two prophecies made about this tribe. In Genesis, when Jacob was blessing his twelve sons who were the patriarchs of the twelve tribes, he said of Dan:

Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel. Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward. – Genesis 49:16-17.

Dan would one day judge Israel but not in righteousness as a godly judge, but as a “serpent by the way, an adder in the path.” This immediately brings up a connection to Satan who in Revelation is called “that old Serpent.” In describing evil, sinful people, Psalm 58 says:

The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies. Their poison is like the poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ear;

Psalm 91, which contains a Messianic prophecy says of Jesus Christ in verse 13:

Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: the young lion and the dragon shalt thou trample under feet. – Psalm 91:13.

The designation of being a “serpent” and “adder” appears to be prophetic of Dan’s decision to enter into rebellion against God for as long as they existed as a nation.

Another association with devil is the prediction that the tribe of Dan will “biteth the horse heels.” In Genesis 3, God told Satan that he would “bruise the heel” of the Messiah, which was fulfilled in the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. Could Dan be connected to the end times Antichrist? Could the Antichrist be a descendant of the tribe of Dan?

A second prophecy seems to further confirm this possibility. When Moses was on his deathbed and was blessing the twelve tribes, he said of Dan:

And of Dan he said, Dan is a lion’s whelp: he shall leap from Bashan. – Deuteronomy 33:22.

In this fascinating prophecy, Moses quotes from Genesis 49. Jacob used the term lion’s whelp in reference to the tribe of Judah:

Judah is a lion’s whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up?

The tribe of Judah was the tribe from which the Messiah would be born. And in other Scriptures the Messiah is referred to as “the Lion of the tribe of Judah.” In also calling Dan a lion’s whelp, was Moses making an allusion to the false Messiah? It certainly seems to be the case. Additionally, Moses prophesied that Dan will “leap from Bashan.” Bashan was one of the locations of the Nephilim giants and in particular, King Og, who Moses himself fought against and slew. The Nephilim were the fiercest enemies of Israel and absolute enemies standing in opposition of God’s plans. The Antichrist will be the embodiment of opposition to The Lord and will seek to defy God and destroy all who believe in Jesus Christ. So again the connection between Dan and the Antichrist seems to be strong. And this would be a very plausible reason for why Dan is not included in the 144,000.


Where Is The Tribe of Ephraim?

Am I one of the 144,000? | Revelation 14 one hundred forty four thousand

Like the sinful tribe of Ephraim, many in the New Age and occult have twisted God’s Word to form their own false religion.

Similarly, the tribe of Ephraim is excluded from the list of  tribes in the 144,000. And it is for the same reason – a rejection of God in favor leading the nation of Israel into satanic worship. This offense was done no more blatantly than by King Jeroboam, who ruled the Northern Kingdom of Israel after the nation split following the reign of King Solomon. [B&E: Please note that this was a very critical time in Biblical history. It is strongly recommended to study this section of Scripture as there are many profound and powerful lessons and insights to be learned].

And the man Jeroboam was a mighty man of valour: and Solomon seeing the young man that he was industrious, he made him ruler over all the charge of the house of Joseph. And it came to pass at that time when Jeroboam went out of Jerusalem, that the prophet Ahijah the Shilonite found him in the way; and he had clad himself with a new garment; and they two were alone in the field: And Ahijah caught the new garment that was on him, and rent it in twelve pieces: And he said to Jeroboam, Take thee ten pieces: for thus saith the Lord, the God of Israel, Behold, I will rend the kingdom out of the hand of Solomon, and will give ten tribes to thee: (But he shall have one tribe for my servant David’s sake, and for Jerusalem’s sake, the city which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel:)

Because that they have forsaken me, and have worshipped Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, Chemosh the god of the Moabites, and Milcom the god of the children of Ammon, and have not walked in my ways, to do that which is right in mine eyes, and to keep my statutes and my judgments, as did David his father. Howbeit I will not take the whole kingdom out of his hand: but I will make him prince all the days of his life for David my servant’s sake, whom I chose, because he kept my commandments and my statutes: But I will take the kingdom out of his son’s hand, and will give it unto thee, even ten tribes. And unto his son will I give one tribe, that David my servant may have a light alway before me in Jerusalem, the city which I have chosen me to put my name there. And I will take thee, and thou shalt reign according to all that thy soul desireth, and shalt be king over Israel. And it shall be, if thou wilt hearken unto all that I command thee, and wilt walk in my ways, and do that is right in my sight, to keep my statutes and my commandments, as David my servant did; that I will be with thee, and build thee a sure house, as I built for David, and will give Israel unto thee. – 1 Kings 11:28-38.

Because of Solomon’s idolatry and worship of false gods and demons, the Kingdom of Israel was split, with the ten tribes forming the Northern Kingdom (called “Israel”) and the tribes of Benjamin, Judah and Levi comprising the southern Kingdom (called “Judah”). Jeroboam, who of the tribe of Ephraim, was given rulership over the Northern Kingdom. So his tribe was selected to lead the 9 other tribes with them in this time. But Jeroboam’s and the Northern Kingdom’s prosperity was conditioned on the King obeying God and putting faith and trust in His Word.

At this time of his Divine appointment to be King, Jeroboam fled to Egypt in fear for his life that Solomon, who was still ruling at the time, would kill him. After Solomon’s death, he returned and the people of the Northern Kingdom embraced him as their king. In the southern kingdom, Rehoboam, the son of Solomon, now ruler, prepared to wage war against Jeroboam and unite the kingdom once again. But before he launched his attack, God sent a prophet to tell Rehoboam not to fight but honor God’s plan of a divided Kingdom. Rehoboam obeyed and God proved He was truly protecting Jeroboam’s throne.

Despite this Jeroboam still had no faith in God’s Word. Jerusalem, the Holy City of the children of Israel, was in the Southern Kingdom. This meant that the temple of Solomon, where the ark of the covenant was located and where all worship and sacrifices to God were to take place, was there as well. Even though the Kingdom was divided, God’s law still required sacrifice and offering to take place in Jerusalem at the temple. Fearful, that the people of his kingdom would go worship in Jerusalem (and perhaps want to live there permanently or give their allegiance to the kingdom of Judah), Jeroboam doubted God and fell into sin:

And Jeroboam said in his heart, Now shall the kingdom return to the house of David: If this people go up to do sacrifice in the house of the Lord at Jerusalem, then shall the heart of this people turn again unto their lord, even unto Rehoboam king of Judah, and they shall kill me, and go again to Rehoboam king of Judah. Whereupon the king took counsel, and made two calves of gold, and said unto them, It is too much for you to go up to Jerusalem: behold thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. And he set the one in Bethel, and the other put he in Dan. And this thing became a sin: for the people went to worship before the one, even unto Dan.

And he made an house of high places, and made priests of the lowest of the people, which were not of the sons of Levi. And Jeroboam ordained a feast in the eighth month, on the fifteenth day of the month, like unto the feast that is in Judah, and he offered upon the altar. So did he in Bethel, sacrificing unto the calves that he had made: and he placed in Bethel the priests of the high places which he had made. So he offered upon the altar which he had made in Bethel the fifteenth day of the eighth month, even in the month which he had devised of his own heart; and ordained a feast unto the children of Israel: and he offered upon the altar, and burnt incense. – 1 Kings 12:26-33.

This time of testing revealed the wickedness of Jeroboam. Rather than trust in God for protection, Jeroboam turned from the Lord and set up his own pagan false religion in the Northern Kingdom. He had golden calves made for the people to worship and make offerings to, copying one of the worst sins in the Old Testament when Aaron made the same sinful error in the book of Exodus. Jeroboam appointed the “lowest people” to be priests, when God specifically commanded that only members of the tribe of Levi could serve as priests. And note that the golden calves were set up in Bethel and Dan. The pagan, demonic worship of Dan continued and Jeroboam made it special location for altars to the false gods he set up. This evil king even went as far as to declare his own date for the feast of tabernacles. And he led the entire Northern Kingdom into rebellion against God.

Jeroboam’s sin was so offensive and so grievous that throughout Scripture “the sins of Jeroboam” are used time and time again as a standard of evil when other later kings were being described. The Northern Kingdom was so rebellious that almost all of its kings were pagans who worshiped false gods and demons. And it was all started by Jeroboam. In 1 Kings 13, the judgment of this sinful king of the tribe of Ephraim was pronounced: “And this thing became sin unto the house of Jeroboam, even to cut it off, and to destroy it from off the face of the earth.”

So like the tribe of Dan, Ephraim’s rampant idolatry and rejection of faith in God disqualified it from the 144,000.

What about groups like the Jehovah’s Witnesses or 7th Day Adventists who claim to be members of the 144,000?


Charles Taze Russell Grave Pyramid Occult All Seeing Eye of Lucifer | Jehovahs Witness Satanic cult

The grave of Jehovah’s Witness founder Charles Taze Russell. The occult influence seems pretty clear.

The Jehovah’s Witness religion has little in common with Biblical Christianity. They first teach a false gospel of works-based salvation. They also use teachings that are not from the Bible (their Watchtower magazines are used to teach in the place of the Bible). With respect to the 144,000, they erroneously believe that their members and leadership comprise the 144,000. The following is directly from the official website of the Jehovah’s Witnesses:

Who are those 144,000? John himself tells us: “These are the ones that keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes. These were bought from among mankind as first fruits to God and to the Lamb.” (Revelation 14:1, 4) Yes, they are faithful followers of Jesus Christ specially chosen to rule in heaven with him. After being raised out of death to heavenly life, “they are to rule as kings over the earth” along with Jesus. (Revelation 5:10) Since the days of the apostles, God has been selecting faithful Christians in order to complete the number 144,000.
To arrange for Jesus and the 144,000 to rule mankind is very loving. For one thing, Jesus knows what it is like to be a human and to suffer. Paul said that Jesus is “not one who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has been tested in all respects like ourselves, but without sin.” (Hebrews 4:15; 5:8) His corulers too have suffered and endured as humans. In addition, they have struggled with imperfection and coped with all kinds of sickness. Surely, they will understand the problems that humans face!

“This ‘little flock’ of 144,000 Kingdom heirs, then, are those ones from among mankind who are ‘born again.'”  (source).


As we can see, this interpretation contradicts Scripture on its face. Revelation 7 is clear that after the opening of the 6th Seal, a future event that has not taken place yet, the 144,000 are sealed. Yet by Jehovah’s Witness’ false doctrine, they have been selected on an ongoing basis “since the days of the Apostles.” In terms of their mission, there is no mention of them witnessing the Gospel to Israel or the world. Instead the Jehovah’s Witness doctrine jumps back to Revelation Chapter 5 to somehow assert that the 144,000 are special rulers over mankind. None of this is ever stated in Scripture. This bizarre interpretation continues with their belief that the 144,000 are the only people who go to Heaven, living in “spirit bodies” while the rest of the Jehovah’s Witnesses remain on Earth in physical, resurrected bodies waiting to be ruled by the 144,000.

Again, this interpretation should be rejected along with all Jehovah’s Witness doctrine. Among the many heresies they teach are that there is no trinity, Jesus was a created being. Jesus was the archangel Michael, transformed into a man, Jesus did not resurrect to a physical body and Jesus returned to Earth in 1914 (one of their many failed prophecies). Charles Taze Russell, who founded the Jehovah’s Witness cult, false prophesied the Rapture and end of the world on 5 different occasions.


Seventh Day Adventists

The Seventh Day Adventist Church is also an unbiblical cult that has no part with Biblical Christianity. Like the Jehovah’s Witnesses, they have an extra-Biblical source. They view the writings of their prophetess, Ellen G. White, on par with the Bible, in particular her book The Great Controversy. Additionally, they believe in works-based salvation primarily based on “keeping Sabbath”, which in their doctrine equals going to church service on Saturday. Here are a sampling of White’s writings on the 144,000:

Strive to Be Among the 144,000
“Let us strive with all the power that God has given us to be among the hundred and forty-four thousand. And let us do all that we can to help others to gain heaven.” -Review and Herald; March 9, 1905.

Mrs. White and the 144,000
“The Lord has given me a view of other worlds. Wings were given me, and an angel attended me from the city to a place that was bright and glorious. The grass of the place was living green, and the birds there warbled a sweet song. The inhabitants of the place were of all sizes; they were noble, majestic, and lovely. They bore the express image of Jesus, and their countenances beamed with holy joy, expressive of the freedom and happiness of the place. . . . I begged of my attending angel to let me remain in that place. I could not bear the thought of coming back to this dark world again. Then the angel said, ‘You must go back, and if you are faithful, you, with the 144,000,* shall have the privilege of visiting all the worlds and viewing the handiwork of God.”-Early Writings, pp. 39, 40.

Mrs. Hastings to Be With the 144,000
“I saw that she [Mrs. Hastings, who had just died] was sealed and would come up at the voice of God and stand upon the earth, and would be with the 144,000. I saw we need not mourn for her; she would rest in the time of trouble.”-Letter 10, 1850 (2SM 263). (source).


First notice there is no attempt to even quote the Bible in any of these “teachings.” White simply gives her own thoughts and it is to be accepted as the Word of God. By their false doctrine, the 144,00 are the “worthy” Seventh Day Adventists who have performed enough works to earn their way into this prestigious group. They also apparently are able to travel through space and visit various planets. This is outrageous, unbiblical heresy and no further analysis is necessary.
Trust God’s Word

Am I one of the 144,000? | Revelation 14 one hundred forty four thousand | Jehovahs Witness exposed | Seventh day adventists heresy exposed

“Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.”Jeremiah 33:3.

The Bible is the sole source of Christian doctrine and prophecy. And the 144,000 as described in Scripture are a very specific group of people, with a specific mission, that will be fulfilled at the start of the Great Tribulation. While the Church is brought up to Heaven at the Rapture, the 144,000 are on Earth, preparing to proclaim the Gospel to those people left behind. They will announce to Israel and the world that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the prophesied Messiah, the Alpha and Omega is indeed on His way back to Earth. And Lord willing, many people in the midst of the Great Tribulation will hear their message and believe.

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  1. Thank you so much for posting this article, it is so well written and explained and backed up with Scripture. Thank you!


  2. I haven’t read the whole article yet as I’m busy with something else right now, but two things jump out at me. First we believers go through the GT and rapture happens on the same day Jesus returns we don’t go to heaven we will rule with Jesus here on earth, He tells us several times in several places to stand to the end, also why does it say God has prepared a place for believers to be safe, and fed for 3 1/2 years, the woman who gave birth to the male child in Rev. Why do this if we go to heaven before wormwood passes by? Also 144,000 are sealed they go out after all hell breaks loose to be a witness against the nations, as in hear the true gospel you now have no excuse for your unbelief they are sealed so no one can harm them including the elements, wind, fire, eartgquake, volcanic ash and dust, etc…bitter waters looters all these things. I will come back and read whole article later, thanks for your website. God Bless


    • Where does it say that we’ll be going through the Tribulation? Everything I’ve read so far seems to indicate that we’ll be removed. I mean, 1 Thes. 5-9 “For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.”

      Now the Great Tribulation is associated with God pouring out His wrath upon the Earth. There are also many types and shadows that indicate that Jesus will take his bride before the coming disasters.

      With the archetype of Noah, we see that a type of the church (Enoch) is taken up bodily to be with the Lord. Noah (the cast of the Jews) are made to go through the Tribulation.

      With Daniel, Daniel is type cast of the Bride being removed from danger before the Jews Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego are placed in the 7x hotter furnace.

      There’s lots of types and shadows going on to indicate that Jesus will indeed come back from his bride and pull us to Him.. otherwise how else are we going to encourage each other with these words?

      It is my thought that the believers converted after the Rapture occurs will be provided with that safe place in Petra (I think that’s it) from the Antichrist’s eye. However those who are killed for Christ’s sake during this time period (who do not denounce Him) will be the “tribulation saints”. We are all saints in the Body, why make the specification about being a tribulation saint?



      • “I’m just curious to hear your response.” is the follow up I wanted to end that with. May the Lord bless you!


        • i really hope you’re right, but people assume Enoch was taken to heaven and is with God, but all it says is God took him, doesn’t say where, maybe Enoch was about to die you know he was old maybe God took him and buried him in a place no one knows? Also when the rapture happens the dead in christ are ressurrected at the same time, as matter of fact they get resurrected first, then those alive are changed, to meet in the air. Believe me I hope we aren’t here but from what I read we are, just protected, the resurrection happens at Christs second coming, this is why I believe we are here just protected and feed like in the Exodus, there were no sick, their shoes didn’t wear out, clothes etc… they were fed and had water etc… I guess well see soon, the middle east war is next big thing to happen then Israel will start to build the third temple they can’t do that until they possess the temple mount again, can’t do that until etc…and so on…thanks for replying, teri


    • Hi CLT,

      Thanks for your comments. I think we have to be very careful about who the “we” is when it comes to prophetic Scripture. Revelation 13 is quite clear that the Antichrist will defeat and kill the saints.

      ” And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.” – Revelation 13:7.

      The Antichrist will kill the Christians who are saved during the Great Tribulation (all other Christians will have been raptured before then). He will wage war against them and win. He will also behead those who refuse the Mark of The Beast. There is no safe haven for Christians in the Great Tribulation.

      If you are referring to Revelation 12, the group that is given protection from satan is Israel, not the Church. These are two distinct groups all through Scripture.

      As for the 144,000 being protected from all sorts of natural disasters and afflictions, I do not see the Scriptural support for that. So I am not sure where you are getting that from. but please feel free to clarify or provide any more commentary you have. Thanks and God bless.


  3. clt:
    i really hope you’re right, but people assume Enoch was taken to heaven and is with God,but all it says is God took him,doesn’t say where, maybe Enoch was about to die you know he was old maybe God took him and buried him in a place no one knows? Also when the rapture happens the dead in christ are ressurrected at the same time, as matter of fact they get resurrected first, then those alive are changed,to meet in the air.Believe me I hope we aren’t here but from what I read we are, just protected,the resurrection happens at Christs second coming,this is why I believe we are here just protected and fed like in the Exodus, there were no sick, their shoes didn’t wear out, clothes etc… they were fed and had water etc… I guess well see soon,the middle east war is next big thing to happen then Israel will start to build the third temple they can’t do that until they possess the temple mount again, can’t do that until etc…and so on…thanks for replying,teri


  4. my bad I forgot Hebrews 11:5. Never mind, maybe Enoch will be one of the two witnesses?



    • I’m thinking that he will be, along with Elijah. I guess we won’t know until they show, right?

      If you would like a good, detailed Biblical study about the Rapture and the signs thereof, there’s a good series on Youtube from pastor JD Farag. He does a weekly Bible prophecy update that’s lined up with current facts and backed up with Scripture. So far he’s doing a series that gives 19 reasons why the Rapture occurs before the Tribulation. If you really want to be encouraged that we won’t suffer through it, check that out. I’d love to know what you think!

      If I remember hearing correctly, the Jews already have their preparations in place to begin rebuilding, they’re just waiting for the “okay”. Perhaps that’s something that will be negotiated in the so-called peace treaty that’s being discussed? All the end-time players are lined up against Israel, to make her a nation no more. There has been no time in history before that this has occurred. I’m excited to see the prophetic time table laid out.


  5. the two witnesses cant be a returning resurrected being. the witnesses get killed after making war with the beast of the bottomless pit.

    these two have to new prophets that appear at some point. they have to be killable.


  6. also good post. i dont know much about this topic but some interesting observations.


  7. B&E – Great post. I wanted to comment specifically on the JW section. I was raised into the JW cult for 16 years before I was able to break free and I wanted to validate that everything you wrote regarding the 144,000 and other doctrines is absolutely true. Unfortunately, I still know a lot of good people who were unable to escape this cult.

    Keep up the good work!


  8. Your assessment on Seventh Day Adventists is WRONG. Why don’t you do real reasearch before you mislead people with your lies? SDA’s are purely Bible based. No we do not travel on planets and other worlds. Honeslty its so sad that people make up whatever they want with no regard for lives you could be leading down the wrong path.It’s just so wrong. For anyone who really wants to know who and what Seventh Day Adventists stand for go to amazingfacts.org


    • Hi Toni,

      Thank you for your comments. I have researched SDA theology in addition to attending several SDA services.

      If you would like to have a Biblical discussion to correct me on SDA doctrine, I would love to. I would start simply by going to the points you raise:

      1) Do you view Ellen G. White as a prophet of God?

      2) What is the significance of Saturday worship with respect to salvation?

      3 I also wonder why you are directing people to amazingfacts.org and not the official website of the Seventh Day Adventist church? Wouldn’t that be the best place to learn what SDA’s believe? There you will find numerous documents that give credit to Ellen G. White for the church’s doctrine. Even the offical church manual which is for ALL SDA churches worldwide was based on the urging of Ellen G. White (and it’s a 213 page document). Whereas amazingfacts goes out of its way to mask the SDA teachings that conflict with Scripture (i.e., Whites false prophecies, the belief that going to church on Sunday is taking the Mark of the Beast which biblically means you are damned with no chance of redemption, etc.).

      I look forward to your thoughts on these issues.


      • Seventh-day Adventists accept the Bible as their only creed and hold certain fundamental beliefs to be the teaching of the Holy Scriptures. These beliefs, as set forth here, constitute the church’s current understanding and expression of the teaching of Scripture.I will address your points as follows:

        Ellen G White was a prophet just like the prophets in the Bible that received visions from God. I’m not sure why this is so perplexing to you but if you would like to know more about her, here is a link http://www.whiteestate.org/about/egwbio.asp#who
        Ellen G White did nothing but quote scriptures and write about her visions. Not once did she contradict scripture. Amazingfacts.org does not hide Ellen G White. Simply search her name in their searcg engine and you will find plenty on her and her writings.

        Regarding Sabbath worship read scriptures: Psalms 95:6-7,Exodus 20:8-11,Deuteronomy 5:15,
        Hebrews 10:26 Just to name a few.
        The sabbath is God’s will as well as the day that he blessed. So are you telling me that you pick and choose which commandments to obey? The sabbath is the seventh day. Jesus said “if you love me keep my commandments.” Period. It’s that simple.
        Here is a link that will help people who truly want to learn about the sabbath http://www.amazingfacts.org/news-and-features/inside-report/id/459/7-facts-about-the-seventh-day.aspx
        You can also go on the search ending and type in “Sabbath” and you will find the answers and see why you need to keep the sabbath as well as all the commandments.

        I referred you to amazingfacts.org because it is a great tool for anyone searching on what Seventh Day Adventism is all about and more importantly their search for God. It has helped many answer their questions.

        *Here is the official Seventh Day Adventist website:http://www.adventist.org/

        I only responded to you because of your accusations regarding SDA’s flying to other planets, saying we don’t follow scriptures and your confusing dislike of Ellen G White. All of your above statements have been rebuffed and anyone who searches for the truth on these two websites I provided below and more importantly the Bible will see that you are wrong. Just look on our official website and you will find that we go only by the Bible and Ellen G White was also someone who went by the Bible.

        http://www.adventist.org/ AND amazingfacts.org

        I am confident that your questions will be answered after praying and then searching for the truth. God bless you.


        • Hi Toni,

          Thanks for your response. I will now respond to your points:

          1) Ellen G. White

          “Ellen G White was a prophet just like the prophets in the Bible that received visions from God”

          So now you have confirmed my statement that the SDA church sees Ellen G. White as a prophet. As thus, her teachings on doctrine are on par with Scripture. Your own belief confirms this very thing as you have just equated her to Isaiah, Ezekiel, Moses and all the prophets of the Bible. Thus whether you agree with her statements or not, her doctrine on the 144,000 is what the SDA church adheres to and it has nothing to do with Bible Scripture. It’s White’s own testimony about traveling to other planets, visiting Heaven etc., so either you believe her words as Scripture or you are calling her a false prophet.

          2) The Sabbath

          As you may have guessed I am in major disagreement with you over this doctrine. First off, a born again Christian is not subject to the Mosaic covenant. Jesus Christ established a new covenant based on faith in His sacrifice on the cross. But more on that later. I will now address the verses you cite in support of keeping Sabbath as a part of one’s salvation:

          O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the Lord our maker. 7 For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice, 8 Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness: 9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work. 10 Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways: 11 Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.” – Psalm 95:6-11.

          This passage has nothing to do with the Sabbath but is a reference to Numbers 13, when the Israelites sent 12 spies to scout the land of canaan and 10 said they could not take the land because the Nephilim were there. And the entire generation of Israelite adults, save Joshua and Caleb, the two faithful spies, died in the wilderness as a result of their doubting of God’s promises. This event is called “the provocation” in Scripture. It’s so ironic that you picked this passage because in Hebrews chapter 3 it is quoted to explain salvation:

          “Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, 8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: 9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. 10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. 11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.) 12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.” – Hebrews 3:7-12.

          What the Scriptures are saying is that episode in Numbers 13 was a picture of salvation: God promised the Israelites the Promised Land, but because of what their eyes saw they did not BELIEVE. Notice it was not works that led to their punishment, it was a lack of faith and belief in God’s Word. This passage is underscoring the fact that it is faith that saves a person and not any work, much less Sabbath-keeping.

          Let’s go to the next one:

          8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. – Exodus 20:9-11

          OK, so again, you are trying to assert that Christians are subject to the Mosaic covenant. God specifically said this covenant was broken and would be replaced:

          Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

          – Jeremiah 31:31-33.

          So already we see that God, millennia ago, announced that the Mosaic covenant, which was the covenant given upon the exodus from Egypt, was broken and would be replaced.

          The “new covenant” is through faith in Jesus Christ. Jesus confirmed this numerous times by declaring that faith or belief in Him is the way to salvation.

          John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
          18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

          John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

          John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life

          The Apostles confirmed the same:

          Acts 16:29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

          In all these passages the means of salvation is clear: it is faith in Christ that saves, not works. No mention of sabbath keeping or the law of Moses whatsoever.

          The epistles confirm the same as well:

          19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. – Galatians 2.

          This passage is clear – is salvation could come by the law, then Jesus died in vain.

          The Apostle Paul continues:

          “O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. 5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.” – Galatians 3:1-7.

          So here again, the Scriptures continue to expain that it was faith that saved us, not the law. So no law-keeping achieves salvation. Paul compares the idea to believing the law can save you to WITCHCRAFT. He then calls them “foolish” for being saved by faith but then later claiming their works justified them. Finally he goes back to Abraham, who was made righteous by FAITH, and thus those who are of the seed of Abraham, must also be justified by faith as well. So the Bible unequivocally refutes SDA doctrine.

          Your next verse:

          Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,”

          You have taken this verse out of context. But suffice to say it has nothing to do with sabbath keeping. And a born again Christian still keeps Sabbath. How, by resting in Christ:

          “Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
          2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
          5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. 6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: 7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

          8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
          11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.” – Hebrews 4:1-11.

          This passage directly explains that the basis of Sabbath rest for a Christian is BELIEF. It is ceasing from works. The Old Testament sabbath was a type and shadow of the true Sabbath of the New Covenant, which is putting full trust and faith in Christ and not works, for salvation. So what day is the Sabbath for a Christian? EVERY DAY. Because a true born again Christian puts her trust in Christ every day for salvation. This passage again, in very clear language refutes SDA doctrine which preaches works and the law for salvation.

          Lastly you said:

          Jesus said “if you love me keep my commandments.” Period. It’s that simple.

          No, it’s actually not that simple. Why? Because you have once again taken that verse out of context. You are assuming that Jesus is referring to the 10 commandments, but is He? We can find out when someone asked Jesus about His commandments:

          “28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
          32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
          33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. 34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.

          So we see the commandments of Christ are two love God and love your neighbor. And that’s it.

          Jesus says the same thing in Matthew 22:

          “6 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
          40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

          So again, we see he Lord Jesus Christ give His commandments. And He specifies that ALL of the law and ALL of the writings of the prophets come down to following these 2 commandments.

          Here is one final example directly from Jesus that again clearly makes this point:

          “As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love. 11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
          12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. 13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
          14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. 15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. 16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
          17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.“- John 15.

          What is Jesus’ commandment? LOVE. As born again Christians we are to love God and love one another. This is how Christians are to be identified in this world, by the love we have for God and each other. And mind you this is John 15, which is a continuation of chapter 14 where Jesus says, “if you love me keep my commandments.” So you have clearly used that verse out of context to try and apply it to the ten commandments, which Jesus never mentions, much less Sabbath keeping, which Jesus also never mentions.

          Trying to preach works is a false Gospel and the SDA church is based on this. It has also made wildly unbiblical doctrines like the Mark of the Beast being “going to church on Sunday” which clearly does not align with Scripture at all. So I stand by assertion that Seventh Day Adventist doctrine has very little to do with Biblical Christianity. Ellen White is not a prophet of God and if you believe so you have to stand by all her prophecies, including the ones about traveling to other planets and her prediction that Jesus has already returned to Earth (in 1914). My hope is that you will just let the BIBLE and nothing else be your guide on what to believe. Because the SDA’s are not preaching the Biblical Gospel.


          • “Trying to preach works is a false Gospel and the SDA church is based on this. It has also made wildly unbiblical doctrines like the Mark of the Beast being “going to church on Sunday” which clearly does not align with Scripture at all. So I stand by assertion that Seventh Day Adventist doctrine has very little to do with Biblical Christianity. Ellen White is not a prophet of God and if you believe so you have to stand by all her prophecies, including the ones about traveling to other planets and her prediction that Jesus has already returned to Earth (in 1914). My hope is that you will just let the BIBLE and nothing else be your guide on what to believe. Because the SDA’s are not preaching the Biblical Gospel.”

            while you are right about WoF religions. and while im not convinced White is worth anything(although i admit its possible its also possible she received evil visions as well) that aside.

            in your entire faith is all that is needed to be saved(and this is something i fail to see how any christian and partake in) you ignore the fundamental fact…..i can have faith in Christ all freakin day but if I am an evil rotten scum bag that persecutes the poor and disobeys the 10 commandments…heaven is not where i am going.

            so the correct doctrine is first have faith and then through faith do good works not this faith alone nonsense.


            • “.i can have faith in Christ all freakin day but if I am an evil rotten scum bag that persecutes the poor and disobeys the 10 commandments…heaven is not where i am going.”

              How many times have you sinned in thought, word or deed in the past month?


            • Kayne, are you kidding me??

              If we are not in Christ, our works are in vain. And most likely, anyone being a “scumbag” is not in Christ, because the power of Christ compells us to righteousness. Without Christ, we have ZERO righteousness.


            • MrsRobbins52 says:

              I have done some study in psychology and Ellen White’s name comes up in case studies of temporal lobe epilepsy. Many believe her visions were born from TLE hallucinations which commonly give people false visions of God.
              What fascinates me about the 144000 or 12000 of each of the 12 tribes. What happens to all the billions of good, faithful Christians that have already departed this world?
              Will we ever be able to find our departed love ones in such a sea of billions?
              One statistician friend calculates that we only have a chance of meeting 2% of our departed loved ones and family in Heaven.
              We will likely find 98% of our loved ones and family in Hell.
              Frankly I don’t like those odds.


          • Maranatha George says:

            Dear B&E,

            (It seems our discussions never end!)

            I have nothing to do with Ellen G White. I am not an SDA; neither am I a JW.

            However, I am curious as to why you have so much aversion to works! If work has nothing to do with salvation, then what has? Idleness?

            “But Jesus answered them, My Father WORKS until now, and I WORK.” (John 5:17).

            See, Jesus’ attitude towards work. He was not an idle Person!

            The Bible is full of advice to do “good works”. It says “indeed the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and just and GOOD” (Rom 7:12). What is holy and good cannot be against salvation!

            Besides, you misunderstand between a “covenant” and a “law”. Let us re-read and understand Jeremiah 31:31-33:

            “Only the old covenant was abolished. The law is not abolished. In the old covenant the law was written on the stone. God will make a new covenant with the same people; Israel. In the new covenant the SAME LAW (that was on the stone) will be written “in their inward parts, in their hearts”. God will be the same God and the people will be the same people”.

            I have always wondered how Christian people immediately reject works and law when they talk about salvation.

            And that too when and in spite we have such serious warnings from Jesus Himself:

            “And then I will declare to them, I never knew you; “depart from Me, those working LAWlessness!” (Mat 7:23).

            “The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all the offenses, and those who practice LAWlessness.” (Mat 13:41).

            It is time to heed Him seriously and check whether we are propagating lawlessness!


            • Hi Maranatha George,

              Thanks for your comments. we have indeed moved on to a new topic! Unfortunately the subject of how one goes to Heaven is indeed a foundational, fundamental issue of the faith (unlike the issue of the Nephilim). I believe in only one Gospel, based on faith in Christ alone.

              I will be glad to discuss the law and covenants but why don’t we get right to the point – please tell me which of your works have contributed to your salvation? I would love to know the specific deeds you have performed to earn your salvation. Thanks.


              • I think there’s always some confusion when it comes to salvation through Christ, with this notion that just because you’re saved (permanently) that you have a sort of hall pass to be wicked or idle. But we are told that our salvation will be evident by our works, fruits of the Spirit. If the fruits are not present, then the seed didn’t give birth. We do good works through the love and power of the Holy Spirit which we allow to possess us. Otherwise, we are told that our efforts amount to “filthy rags.”


          • Maranatha George says:

            Dear B&E,

            (Frankly I do not know how to start the discussion. Let me try.)

            //”please tell me which of your works have contributed to your salvation?” – B&E//

            We shouldn’t talk about my works. That won’t take us anywhere. We need to discuss on the Biblically prescribed “good works” a person who have faith in Jesus need to do empowered by the Holy Spirit.

            “So let your light shine before men, so that they may see your GOOD WORKS, and may glorify your Father in Heaven.” (Mat 5:16).

            “He “will give to each according to his WORKS:” everlasting life truly to those who with patience in GOOD WORK seeking glory and honor and incorruptibility” (Rom 2:6-7).

            “for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto GOOD WORKS” (Eph 2:10).

            “so that the man of God may be perfected, being fully furnished for every GOOD WORK” (2 Tim 3:17).

            “They profess to know God, but by their WORKS they deny Him, being abominable and disobedient, and worthless to every GOOD WORK” (Tit 1:16).

            “who gave Himself on our behalf, “that He might redeem us from all LAWLESSNESS and purify a special people for Himself,” zealous of GOOD WORKS.” (Tit 2:14).

            “Faithful is the Word, and concerning these things I desire you strongly to affirm that the ones believing God should take thought to MAINTAIN GOOD WORKS. These things are good and ***profitable*** to men.” (Tit 3:8).

            “Watch yourselves, that we may not lose the things we WORKED OUT, but that we may receive a full reward” (2 John 1:8).

            “And, behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to each as his WORK is” (Rev 22:12).

            (These are only a few samples. Also please note that majority of the above quotes are from Paul himself).

            How can we say that Salvation is Unrelated to Work??!!!

            //”I would love to know the specific deeds you have performed to earn your salvation. Thanks.” – B&E//

            Please bear with me, B&E, we need to *sharply* understand certain things without confusion.


            Even Science says the same thing!

            The Law of Biogenesis says: “Life can come ONLY from PRE-EXISTING life”!

            So no amount of good works or law keeping will “produce” any life! This is very fundamental and sensible.

            BUT …………….

            We may LOSE life unless we are careful to maintain it.

            Let me give an analogy:

            There is an electric fence with a warning instruction thereon. Now the warning does not “produce” life but it “sustains” life. If you obey the warning you keep your life to receive the free gift. If you break the warning you lose your life before receiving the free gift!

            So with God’s law and good works. These help us maintain our life to receive the free gift of eternal life!

            “But the one who **endures** to the end will be saved” (Mat 10:22).

            Let us take the case of Paul’s own life. When God confronted Saul to elect him as an apostle he was a persecuter and an accomplice to the murder of the Church!!! So Paul never “earned” his salvation. On the contrary he worked against it!!!

            Yet, God, out of abundant grace, elected him to receive the free gift of eternal life. And once Paul came to know about this “grace” he “worked harder than others” (1 Cor 15:10) to maintain his election!

            “Therefore, my beloved, …………………………, WORK OUT YOUR OWN SALVATION with fear and trembling” (Philip 2:12).

            (Can you believe this is from Paul himself??!!!)

            So, no, you cannot “EARN” your salvation but, yes, you can “work out” your salvation once you are elected by God’s grace to receive the free gift of eternal life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            Hope I have clarified the issue.

            //”the subject of how one goes to Heaven is indeed a foundational, fundamental issue of the faith” – B&E//

            (I am curious to know where in the Bible it says we are going to heaven. Aren’t the meek supposed to inherit the earth rather than heaven?!)


            • Hi Maranatha George,

              Thanks for your reply. Mine will be a short one. I will simply address your first point:

              //”please tell me which of your works have contributed to your salvation?” – B&E//

              We shouldn’t talk about my works. That won’t take us anywhere. We need to discuss on the Biblically prescribed “good works” a person who have faith in Jesus need to do empowered by the Holy Spirit.

              If your works have earned or are preserving your salvation for you then you should be boldly proclaiming those works. Don’t you want others to know what we need to do in order to maintain our salvation? If there are certain works that we must do so we do not LOSE OUR SALVATION (which is clearly the Gospel that you seem to be preaching), then please – let us all know, what works have you done in order to maintain it – lest one of miss out and end up in damnation??

              You claim to believe salvation is a GIFT (which means it’s free), but we have to earn the right to keep the gift. Guess what? Then it’s not a gift.

              Every time a “you must do works” false Gospel is being preached, the preacher never wants to discuss their own works or their own sin. Kayne said a similar thing to you and I am still waiting for his answer on how many sins he’s committed in thought, word or deed the past month. Are you willing to share the amount of sins you commit in thought word or deed on a regular basis, while you are “preserving your salvation”?

              As I said before, unlike the Nephilim issue, this is a very serious one. You are changing the Biblical Gospel. And I am still waiting to hear what exactly your Gospel is once you share the works you have done to preserve your salvation.


          • Maranatha George says:

            Oh, B&E, you sound offended.

            //”If there are certain works that we must do so we do not LOSE OUR SALVATION (which is clearly the Gospel that you seem to be preaching)” – B&E//

            I am surprised that you believe nobody LOSES a free gift!!!

            When we all receive FREE gifts from our loved ones, we carefully keep those gifts without losing them. Our care shows that we CAN lose those gifts which were FREE unless we take effort!!!

            Losing salvation is NOT my gospel; it is there very much in the Bible:

            “For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly ***GIFT***, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have FALLEN away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. For land that has drunk the rain that often falls on it, and produces a crop useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed, and its end is to be burned.” (Heb 6:4-8).

            No, I am not proof texting. The above is a very plain verse from the Scripture!

            If the above is not enough, then read the following instruction from Paul:

            GUARD the good Deposit given through the Holy Spirit indwelling in us.” (2 Tim 1:14).

            Yes, Paul is cautioning against LOSING the FREE Deposit!

            “And DO NOT GRIEVE the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption” (Eph 4:30).

            “how shall we escape if we NEGLECT such a great salvation?” (Heb 2:3).

            Please tell me, how do you understand the Scripture that asks us to “WORK OUT our own SALVATION” (Philip 2:12).

            //”You claim to believe salvation is a GIFT (which means it’s free), but we have to earn the right to keep the gift. Guess what? Then it’s not a gift.” – B&E//

            I never said “we have to *earn* the right to keep the gift”!

            I said on the contrary!

            And I gave the example of Paul. When God selected Saul to be the Apostle of Jesus Christ, Saul was a persecutor and an accomplice to the murder of God’s saints. So Paul never “earned” anything from God. God selected him freely and gave him gifts freely! But once Paul came to know about this unconditional grace from God, he was always careful not to lose it! He “worked harder than others”!!!

            To begin with, I am a sinner and as good as dead (Eph 2:1). I cannot make myself alive.

            Then God “rich in mercy” (Eph 2:4) selects me FREELY for salvation from my death (Eph 2:5). This is FREE by God’s grace (same verse). This is through the hearing of the Gospel (Eph 1:13).

            Then I am FREELY “justified” through faith in Jesus Christ (Rom 3:24). I confess my faith with my mouth and believe in my heart (Rom 10:9). This free justification is through the death and blood of my Savior Jesus (Rom 5:9-10).

            Then God gives me the FREE gift of the Holy Spirit which is a SEAL and “GUARANTEE/PLEDGE” or advance of eternal life that I am GOING TO possess later (Eph 1:13-14)!!!

            What is interesting is that until this free justification, I have done nothing worthwhile. No efforts from me. All the action was done FREELY by God and Jesus Christ. I only believed and confessed my faith in Jesus!

            Now begins a journey for me of holy life in hardships and sufferings close to God believing that I “SHALL BE SAVED” (Rom 5:9-10).

            I may falter but I need to complete my journey, my “race”, my “good fight” till the end. Then shall I receive the eternal life at Christ’s second coming (2 Tim 4:7-8).

            (Remember, the “race” and “good fight” are WORK we do!!!)

            My journey must be one of OBEDIENCE to God (1 Peter 1:14, 22)!

            Please tell me, is there anything wrong in the above?

            (God’s gift, though it is free, is NOT cheap and so we need to be very careful!)

            //”Don’t you want others to know what we need to do in order to maintain our salvation? If there are certain works that we must do so we do not LOSE OUR SALVATION (which is clearly the Gospel that you seem to be preaching), then please – let us all know” – B&E//

            Wow, you sound same like the young and rich Jewish man who came to Jesus and asked the same question!!!!!!!!!!

            Rich man: “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have ETERNAL LIFE?” (Mat 19:16).

            Jesus: “But if you desire to enter into LIFE, keep the commandments.” (verse 17).

            Rich man: Excuse me, Sir, but which commandments? (verse 18).

            Jesus: Why, of course, the Ten Commandments! (verses 18-19).

            So, B&E, you got your answer from Jesus Himself!!!


            • Hi George,

              I am taking no offense. If you are going to proclaim that a person can lose their salvation, simply state what works you have personally done to preserve your salvation. Like Kayne, you are just being evasive. If your interpretation is correct, then you should happily share what your works are so others know and do not go to hell.

              Similarly, like Kayne, you have ignored the question about how many times you have sinned in thought, word or deed in the past month to show the rest of us the right way to live and perform for God. You two share the same Gospel, but for some reason refuse to provide a personal testimony.


            • Hi George,

              I do have one other question: can you name one person in the entire Bible who lost their salvation?


          • Maranatha George says:

            //”If you are going to proclaim that a person can lose their salvation, simply state what works you have personally done to preserve your salvation.” – B&E//

            It would be a foolish act (a folly) if someone wants to follow “me”. I may become like another “Demas”, who “fell in love with this present world and has deserted” the apostle (2 Tim 4:10).

            “for One is your Leader, the Christ” (Mat 23:10). Listen to Him and **follow** Him.

            And He says clearly, if anyone wants to enter life, then keep the ten commandments!

            //”you have ignored the question about how many times you have sinned in thought, word or deed in the past month to show the rest of us the right way to live and perform for God.” – B&E//

            B&E, you are asking questions like a kid!

            Any body’s sins and righteousness are personal affairs between him and God. It is not for “the rest of us” to know that.

            If “the rest of us” want to know “the right way to live and perform for God”, then the rest of us must study the Scripture that shows the Way!!!

            This is elementary knowledge.

            (You have devoted a large part of this site to reveal the true colors of ‘Prosperity Gospel’ preachers. How do they get followers? Of course because many people try to follow these ‘idols’ instead of following Jesus Christ, the Perfect Role Model. So let us stop following any tom, dick and harry. Our goal is only Jesus!)

            //”but for some reason refuse to provide a personal testimony.” – B&E//

            It is not wise to go after personal testimonies. We have the Bible to learn correct things. The Scriptures have enough personal testimonies “set as examples” we need to know.

            //”Like Kayne, you are just being evasive.” – B&E//

            Why do you evade my question: “Please tell me, how do you understand the Scripture that asks us to “WORK OUT our own SALVATION” (Philip 2:12).”

            //”can you name one person in the entire Bible who lost their salvation?” – B&E//

            I do not like to point at some one and judge.

            However, see Ananias and Saphira in Acts 5:1. They were clearly members of the first Church who received the Holy Spirit and knew the truth fully well.

            Yet they lied to the Holy Spirit (Acts 5:3). Is that an unpardonable sin (Mat 12:32)? I don’t know. I don’t dare to say anything about their end. But for the time being it seems they have fallen.


  9. I hate reading revelations! It scares me and even though I have faith in Jesus Christ and try NOT to sin, I still feel VERY unworthy!


    • Hi Kristen,

      Thanks for your comments. They are much appreciated. The end times are indeed scary. But they are a time that God will pour out His wrath on unbelievers, not believers. So rejoice. I’ll give you 2 reasons not to be scare of Revelation and to read it:

      1. We know the ending –

      And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. – Revelation 21:1-5

      We will once again live in paradise, openly seeing God and living in righteousness. It will be the world as The Lord always intended. And all the pain, struggle, trials and death in this world will be gone, forever.

      2. You will be blessed

      Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. – Revelation 1:3.

      And re: feeling unworthy. If you feel unworthy of the blessings of the eternal kingdom and being a co-heir in Christ, that is GREAT! That is evidence of the Spirit of God in you. The Spirit is what serves to convict us and remind us of our sin nature that still exists in our Earthly flesh. Only a believer in Christ’s salvation can so readily recognize her sin and inadequacy before The perfect, just and righteous God. So you are right – we are not worthy. But Christ IS WORTHY. Christ did all the work and paid all the cost to earn our salvation for us. That’s why Ephesians 2 says that salvation is “the GIFT of God.” if you have to work for a gift, it’s not a gift! It was done out of love for you, by The Lord, Our Father in Heaven.

      So rejoice, repent and read! God bless you abundantly.


  10. Jesus is the only answer people it is his blood by his blood we get forgiveness of sin. it is by staying in him by the continual refilling of his holy ghost that gives us the believers the power to overcome sin. I say again it is in him and him(Jesus) alone least any one should boast. It is keeping this faith alone and showing this faith by how we live are lives and not turning from such that will allow us to inter into the rest of Jesus and stay there. Now how to get there? you must be born again you must have that new spirit inside which causes one to have a right relationship with the lord and causes you to walk in this life with power to overcome sin in that when you sin and we are all sinners, you can boldly go before the throne of grace and ask for forgiveness because when God looks at those in Christ all he see’s is……the blood for that is what washes away all say it with me all ……..sin!


  11. When you receive the holy ghost and one starts to walk in the spirit that spirit will cause you to know all truth what truth you say? every word in the holy bible which is the word God because we believers should know by now who is the word of God in fullness you know the one who said ” behold I come in the volume of the book” and all so said ” man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeded out of the mouth of the living God “. So you see if one would give his life over to Christ and let him live through you (the temple of the holy ghost) he will give you power to over come sin and obtain life eternal for that life is in him and in him alone there is no other way no other method no other saving grace he Jesus is the only way and if one would seek him you will find him. the Gospel is simple and yet foolish to most but it pleased God to use foolishness to confound the wisdom of man. God said his foolishness is wiser than all men and God said his weakness is stronger than all men! what a God! So where dose that leave man? you had better get to know Jesus for your self and let him change your life for in him there is no condemnation however with out him you are condemned already why people keep missing this point is beyond me but it takes the power of the holy ghost to show it to the people Jesus called for many are called but few chosen meaning that we man are all called but very few will chose him over car house wife money children lust all of which are…the pride of life and it will take many to hell that serve it just that simple except Christ and live knowing you do not deserve it because of sin or reject him and die in you sins and be lost for all eternity for however which a tree is cut that is how it will fall.


  12. Nephesh roi says:

    Beginning and End,

    This is a good attempt at studying the Biblical prophecy. However, I find the following descepancies in the article:

    1. You have said the tribe of Ephraim is not mentioned – Actually the tribe of Ephraim is mentioned in the 144000 as tribe of Joseph. So both Manasseh and Ephraim (as Joseph) are represented in the 144000.

    Now why Ephraim is called as Joseph here?

    “And take another stick and write on it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim” (Ezek 37:16).

    “So says the Lord Jehovah: Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim” (verse 19).

    2. You have said the Rapture occurs at the opening of the 6th seal – I checked the description of the sixth seal opening. I was unable to see anything that may denote any rapture there. Wondering how you have got that idea.

    3. You have stated that the Great Tribulation is interchangeable with the Day of the Lord – I see these two are separate events. The great Tribulation occurs at the fifth seal and the DoL occurs at the sixth seal. Don’t you see that?

    4. You have mentioned about “demonic beings torturing the human beings” – I see them as the modern war machinery like fighter planes (locusts) firing missiles, “the sound made by their wings was like the noise of many horse-drawn chariots rushing into BATTLE” (Rv 9:9). The horses out of whose mouth came fire, smoke and brimstone (Rv 9:17) could very well be the tanks used in war by “ARMY” (Rv 9:16).

    After all, the Beast is worshipped as a war making entity. Isn’t it?


    • Hi Nephesh roi,

      Thanks very much for your comments and questions. I will try my best to address your points.

      1. Ephraim – Well, the name Ephraim does not appear there. I believe we agree on that. You raise a very good point, Ephraim is counted back into Jospeh in Ezekiel 37. However, it this author’s contention that what is being depicted in Ezekiel is the end times spiritual revival of Israel to come during the Day of The Lord. So could it be that this reunion takes place at the time of the sealing of the 144,000? It’s plausible, but I lean toward it happening later as the remnant comes to a believing faith in Jesus Christ. This is a very good point.

      2. 6th Seal Rapture – The Sixth Seal rapture is explained in detail in our article The Red Moon Rapture: The Biblical Timing of The Rapture.

      3. The Day of The Lord and Great Tribulation - “Great Tribulation” is a term used to describe the Day of The Lord on 2 occasions in the New testament by The Lord Jesus Christ. The Day of The Lord is by far and away the most frequent Biblical term for the end times in Scripture. In our modern eschatology studies, the terms “tribulation” and “7 year tribulation” have been used to the point that much confusion arises (since the former is not a proper noun and the latter is not in the Bible at all). For a detailed explanation of the Day of The Lord as described in Scripture please see the article The Day Of The Lord – The Event That Starts The End of The World.

      As for the 5th seal, it is an account of the souls Christian martyrs throughout the era of the church under the altar of The Lord. It takes place entirely in Heaven, so it cannot be the Day of The Lord, which are judgments poured out on the Earth. However, as shown in the text of the 5th Seal, it directly precedes God rising to judge the world, to avenge the blood of His murdered saints, which takes place at the 6th seal and the subsequent trumpet and vial judgments.

      4. Military vehicles in Revelation 9 – I very, very strongly disagree with you here. The notion that the spirit beings who emerge from the abyss are somehow helicopters, fighter jets, tanks, etc., has no Biblical support in this author’s view. We have to approach Scripture with a healthy respect for what is very clearly says. At the 5th trumpet, an angel is given the key to the bottomless pit. The bottomless pit is a real place. It is the abyss – a prison where demonic spirits and fallen angels reside at present (Jude, 2 Peter 3). It is also referred to as “the deep.” And the beings who emerge from it are not human. They are spirit beings from the spirit realm. I believe they look just how John described them. These beings are going to be unleashed on the unbelieving world to torment it.

      To interject that somehow these were not coming from the pit, the angel with the key was say, a President authorizing war or things like that, is adding a lot of person-made ideas to Scripture. Furthermore we are told that no one dies from the attacks of these beings from the pit If all this were military fighting for five straight months, how could it be that not one person dies? That does not follow logically.

      The end times world will be one of a mix of humans and spirit beings who can physically manifest before people. Remember, the Antichrist is not a “normal man” himself. He comes back from the dead. He performs miracles. The False prophet will be able to literally call fire from Heaven. These are not allegories. These are factual statements given for our admonition.

      I am very familiar with various ideas that make the Antichrist “a nation” and all of these spectacular descriptions in Revelation as allegory but am not in agreement with them. Thanks again for your comments as you raised many thought-provoking questions. God bless you abundantly. -B&E.


  13. Nephesh roi says:

    Beginning and End,

    Good response and thanks. (These discussions help in deeper studies of the Scripture).

    1. Ephraim – I do agree that Ephraim is not mentioned in 144000. But then the question remains: who/which tribe is represented by Joseph here? Joseph had two sons. One, Manasseh, is mentioned already. Then who Joseph represents ……. unless it is Ephraim?!

    2. After reading “Red Moon” article I am a little confused. Quoting 1 Cor 15:51-53 you say that the Rapture occurs at the last Trumpet. Yet none of the 6 trumpets and the seventh and last Trumpet occur in the opening of the Sixth seal.

    Trumpets including the last (seventh) trumpet all occur at or after the opening of the seventh seal. The dead rise at this last trump and so the true rapture should occur at this point. Yet you write the rapture occur at the sixth seal when none of the trumpets occur. I do not know how to reconcile this.

    3. Initially I too thought the Great Tribulation and the DoL are the same. But I found Jesus saying something different.

    “for then shall be GREAT TRIBULATION, such as has not been since the beginning of the world to this time; no, nor ever shall be.” (Mat 24:21).

    From the above, it is very clear that this Great Tribulation (Megaley Thlipsis) is a unique event; one only of its kind because Jesus emphasises that such has never happened before and such will not happen afterwards!

    (You are very much right that general tribulations are always there for the true believers. But this great tribulation is unique)

    Then Jesus says:

    “And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened …………………….” (Mat 24:29).

    So the Day of the Lord happens after the Great Tribulation. I do not know how you will look at this.

    4. Military vehicles – I acknowledge your disagreement here. However, look at the following points, for a possibility:

    The star that fell on earth is not a good angel. The Bible never talks about good angels as falling to earth. It is always the fallen angels especially Satan who are depicted as falling to earth. Besides, the Rev 9:11 identifies this angel as Abaddon/Apollyon, ie, Satan!

    It is Satan who gives his power and authority to the Beast in Revelation: “And the dragon gave him its power and its seat and great authority” (Rev 13:2) and “And they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast” (Rev 13:4).

    So I see in Rev 9, the falling star/dragon giving authority to the Beast who start to win over the political world with the war machinery. Remember, “the whole earth will be marveled at the beast” (Rev 13:3) saying “who could make WAR with the beast” (verse 4).

    Now, regarding why no one dies for 5 months; it could mean that the beast will use yet to be invented chemical /biological warfare that do not kill anyone but tortures only!

    Is the bottomless pit a real place? I doubt!

    The beast is shown as coming out of the bottomless pit in Rev 11:7. Yet, the beast comes out of the sea in Rev 13:1. So bottomless pit is symbolic; it need not be a real place.

    And what is most amazing is this beast is NOT a new thing to occur at the end of the world!!! THE BEAST WAS IN THE WORLD BEFORE!!! The beast continued in the Middle Ages. But it is not there now or today. But people are familiar or aware of this beast through the study of history. That is why when the beast comes up AGAIN, the Bible says that people will marvel at it because they are familiar with it through history.

    “That beast was once alive, but lives no longer; it is about to come up from the abyss and will go off to be destroyed. The people living on earth whose names have not been written before the creation of the world in the book of the living, will all be amazed as they look at the beast. It was once alive; now it no longer lives, but it will reappear.” (Rev 17:8)

    It was during the reign of this Beast that Jesus Christ came to stay on earth in the first coming! Again it will be during the reign of this same Beast that Jesus will come again to stay for ever the second time!

    Daniel identifies this (fourth) beast:

    Yes, it is the ROMAN EMPIRE that comes after Babylonian, Medo-Persian and the Alexandrian Greek empires (Dan 2:39-40)!!!!!!!!!!

    The great Image Nebuchadnezar saw was standing on two legs of iron. No wonder, in history, Roman Empire stood on two capitals; one in Rome and the other in Byzantium/Constantinople!

    Yet the Second Coming of Jesus (“the Stone cut out with no hands”) will be at the time of “ten toes” of this same Roman Empire. These “ten toes” are identified as the “ten horns” of Revelation that stand for “ten kings, who have received no kingdom yet, but will receive authority as kings one hour with the beast” (Rev 17:12).

    The whole earth will be amazed at the spectacular rise of the old Roman Empire from Europe in new attire in the future for “forty two months” (Rev 13:5)! (No wonder both the world wars originated from Europe, the seat of the Beast!).

    So the Bible says this Roman Empire with a great Dictator will rise from “the bottomless pit” showing clearly that the bottomless pit is not a real place!

    I would like to see your views on this.


    • Hey Nephesh Roi,

      Okay, let’s continue:

      1. Ephraim – I think this point is debatable. It’s just a matter of perspective and timing. Perspective in the sense that I hold to the belief that one of the main purposes of the Day of The Lord is the reconciliation of Israel to The Lord Jesus Christ. So that would be the reason for sealing the 144,000 right at the beginning and they prepare to witness to Israel and the world at large. Timing because I agree that Ephraim is indeed reconciled back into right standing with The Lord. It’s just matter of does it take place at the time of the sealing of the 144,000 or does it take place during the Day of The Lord. I lean to it taking place later on and at this time they are still not in good standing. But I completely see your point as valid and you could be right.

      2. The Rapture – Remember, 1 Corinthians was written decades before the book of Revelation. So I do not believe that Paul saw the Revelation given to John before John Himself did. That being said, I do not believe that the 7th trumpet of Revelation is “the last trump.” I believe the last trump is an idiom for the Feast of Trumpets, the feast in which God ordained a gathering of all the people. I believe that feast is a type and shadow of the Rapture and this is what Paul was referring to. The Jewish marriage (as described in Scripture) and the Feast of trumpets are both used as typologies of the Rapture. I hope that clarifies my position.

      3. Matthew 24:19-21 – These verse have become the foundation of entire end times viewpoints in the past few years. Megas thlipsis is also used by The Lord Jesus Christ in Revelation 2:

      19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation (megas thlipsis), except they repent of their deeds. – Revelation 2:19-21.

      So rather than being a unique event (i,e, one day or one hour), Jesus is describing a period of time. And this time period is the Day of The Lord. In fact, I believe that in the verse you cite from Matthew, The Lord is quoting Joel chapter 2:

      1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the Lord cometh, for it is nigh at hand; 2 A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations. – Joel 2:1-2.

      This is the time period being discussed. Again, it is critical to understand the Day of The Lord and its MANY description in Scripture to grasp the end times timeline. Jesus is just making a reference to the Day of The Lord in Mathew 24.

      As for Matthew 24:19 (“immediately after the tribulation of those days…”) it is my contention that “the tribulation of those days” is the Church Age. The Church age goes through “tribulation.” The unbelieving world in the end times experiences “Great Tribulation.” Matthew 24 is a very complex chapter but I believe this is the distinction being made here. We are told very clearly that the events of the first 4 seals are not the end times. Luke 21 also adds to the understanding of this. The 5th seal is persecution and martyrdom of Christians which takes place right up to the opening of the 6th Seal. These events are the “tribulation of those days.” And this is why we see the four signs from the 6th Seal described by The Lord in that verse. I hope that makes sense.

      If I did not already suggest it, please read our article on the Day of The Lord and also our article on the First Four Seals, Who Are The Four Horsemen of The Apocalypse for more detail on this.

      another thing to consider – At the 7th trumpet, where is the Rapture church? Where are they located? We don’t see them anywhere in the text. Yet after the opening of the 6th seal and BEFORE the opening of the 7th Seal we see the multitude that no man can number, of all races and ethnicities, just pop up out of nowhere and suddenly appear in Heaven. This is the Raptured church.

      4. The Beast/ Military Vehicles – We are still in major disagreement here. Like, very major. lol. Satan and his fallen angels still have access to Heaven (this is confirmed in Job 1 and 2). They are still operating in the air and exercising limited authority over human affairs (Daniel 10). So the angel who falls in Revelation 9 could very be an evil one. Could this angel be Satan? It’s very possible. But certainly it is most likely an evil angel who opens the bottomless pit.

      You say you do not believe the bottomless pit (or abboussos in Greek) is real. Scripture shows us the exact opposite:

      26 And they arrived at the country of the Gadarenes, which is over against Galilee. 27 And when he went forth to land, there met him out of the city a certain man, which had devils long time, and ware no clothes, neither abode in any house, but in the tombs. 28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not. 29 (For he had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For oftentimes it had caught him: and he was kept bound with chains and in fetters; and he brake the bands, and was driven of the devil into the wilderness.) 30 And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him. 31 And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep.(abboussos) – Luke 8:26-30

      The demons were very aware of the abyss, referred to as “the deep” here (and it is called “the deep” no less than 20 times in the Old Testament). It is clearly a specific location, which they were frightened. On top of this, The Lord Jesus Christ acknowledges their request and grants it, casting the demons into pigs instead: “32 And there was there an herd of many swine feeding on the mountain: and they besought him that he would suffer them to enter into them. And he suffered them.”

      This place is a prison for evil angelic and demonic beings. It is referenced in both Jude and 2 Peter 3.

      And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. – Jude 1:6

      These angels are literally bound in chains in a prison. And that is the abyss – also known as the bottomless pit and the deep.

      The Lord Himself went there:

      18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. – 1 Peter 3:18-20.

      So again, these beings are released at the 5th trumpet. This is not a conventional army. It is a supernatural army from the spirit dimension. The angels who once showed themselves openly in the pre-flood world are now being unleashed as a tool of God’s judgment. Read the description of these beings and then read Joel Chapter 2 (about Joel’s army, which many pastors have very erroneously taught is a “good” army of super Christians). It is the same group of beings that are described. A locust-like army with superhuman ability.

      This of course is a MAJOR issue in end times prophecy today. The predominate view is one of military machines being described. Whereas I hold to the view that the end times final kingdom will be a hyrbid – human-angelic kingdom. Hence Jesus saying “as it was in the days of Noah…” In the days of Noah, the b’nai ha elohim, fallen angels, were openly interacting with humans, marrying women and having hybrid offspring. Jesus references this specific time period as what the world will be like at the time of His Coming.

      5. The Roman Empire – Daniel chapter never identifies the Roman Empire as the final kingdom. I do not believe in a “Revived Roman Empire.” The fact of the matter is that Rome was added to Daniel chapter 2. The name just does not occur. In later chapters the Medo-Persians and Greeks are confirmed but never Rome. Again, this is because the final kingdom before the Coming of The Lord is not Roman. It’s a hybrid Kingdom. Hence the “mingling themselves with the seed of men”, the precise sinful activity that took place in the days of Noah.

      I could say much more on this, but knowing we are so far apart on this topic, I will just close here. I just want to share my perspective so you know where I am coming from. This has been a great discussion and I welcome any further response you have. God bless.


  14. Nephesh roi says:

    Beginning and End,

    1. Ephraim – Thanks for seeing my point.

    2. I do not think Paul needs to see the Revelation written by John to learn things. Paul says that he did not learn anything from any of the apostles, Jesus Christ teaching him directly (Gal 1:12).

    I also wonder how you got the idea that “the last trump” is an idiom for the Feat of Trumpets!

    Then what about this?:

    “Because the Lord Himself shall come down from Heaven with a commanding shout of an archangel’s voice, and with God’s trumpet. And the dead in Christ will rise again first.” (1 Thessa 4:16)

    I don’t think Paul is talking about the trumpet of the Feast of Trumpets here.

    I believe Paul refers to the seventh (last) trump at which time, the Son of Man on the clouds comes down on earth (Rev 14:14) to reap the harvest (rapture?).

    As I said before, this occurs after the seventh seal. But according to you the rapture occurs at the fifth seal.

    Still this is a problem for reconciliation.

    3. No I did not mean that the Great Tribulation is for one day or hour. The GT is for precisely “forty two months” (3 1/2 years) when the Beast ‘will make war and overcome the saints’ (Rev 13:5-7).

    (The 42 months of GT is still in the future because the Beast which was in the world before is not there today. But it will come for a short period (indeed 42 months is a very short period for any political system) and will go into perdition – Rev 17:8).

    So GT is a period of time distinct from DoL as per Jesus Christ. This GT time period is a unique time in the sense that this will be the Tribulation of all tribulations; a culmination of all troubles at the end. (Yes, DoL is also unique).

    So when Jesus says “immediately after the tribulation of those days” He means the days of these forty two months. This is my understanding.

    Yes, I asked myself; where is the rapture mentioned at the seventh trumpet. Here it is:

    (The seventh trumpet occurs towards the last part of 11th chapter whose time flow continues in the 14th chapter. Chapters 12 and 13 are insets)

    “…… and the time of the judging of the dead, and to give the reward to Your servants the prophets, and to the saints, and to the ones fearing Your name, to the small and to the great, and to destroy those destroying the earth.” (Rev 11:18)

    “And I looked, and behold, a white cloud. And on the cloud sat one like the Son of man, having a golden crown on His head, and a sharp sickle in His hand.” (Rev 14:14).

    “And He sitting on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.” (Rev 14:16)

    “And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire. And those who had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.” (Rev 15:2)

    Isn’t this the real rapture?

    4. Yes, we are in disagreement over the locusts as military machinery.

    5. It again is true that Rome is not mentioned in Daniel. However Daniel tells that a fourth kingdom will come after the Babylonian empire (Dan 2:39-40). He identified the second and third as Media-Persia and Alexander’s Greek empire respectively as you said. History shows that what followed was the Roman empire!

    The first, second and third empires (beasts) were not hybrid kingdoms. Hence the fourth empire also will not be any hybrid kingdom.

    The Bible identifies the Roman empire in Revelation 13:2:

    “And the beast which I saw was like a leopard (area and characteristics of Alexander’s empire), and its feet as of a bear (area and characteristics of Media – Persia) , and its mouth as a lion‘s mouth (area and characteristics of Babylonian empire)”.

    Only Rome had these areas or parts of these areas and their characteristics.

    The “mingling themselves with the seed of men” – this could mean the democratic set up of the government when men will elect these ten kings into powerful positions.

    Until the end of Second World War, kings and queens ruled Europe (Roman Empire). But now they have democratic governments.

    These democratically elected ten kings/Presidents will hand over their power to a real fascist Dictator (17:12-13) who will push the world into the final World War!!


  15. They are the first fruits of the lamb, the remnant seed of the Woman , The Elect of God. During the Advent of Pentecost St.Peter quoted Joels Prophecy, into the Army of God to the Invincible ones, Rank & File, come in the Post Advent of Pentecost. For they care not for their own lives but keep the commandments of God & have the testimony of Jesus , they follow the lamb whereever He goes.


  16. stacy sullivan says:

    It was really interesting to watch that debate on works and salvation. It was like watching two puddles of water argue over which ones wetter…lol.. what i get from scripture is that you cant get to heaven by just faith or just works. You could be a person who has strong faith in god but treat others as trash. You could be a person who does good deeds all the time but does not believe in God. So i believe through faith you aresaved and through works you keep it! Repent and sin no more is a work i would think. God bless


    • Im a Believer says:

      It seems that your premise is incorrect: if you were a person of strong faith, you would not treat others as trash. if you believe in Jesus, you would hold onto both of his commands – Love the Lord your God, and love your neighbor as yourself. I certainly hope a true believer, someone with strong faith, would not treat themselves, or others, as trash!

      If you have real Faith, if you LOVE God, if you truly believe in carrying your cross and Following Jesus, then you will naturally WANT to do God’s will (which may be doing works in the power of His grace).

      However, it is definitely the TRUE faith that saves us, and the works are the evidence of that faith. Faith without works is dead. In other words, if you truly believe, you will truly be doing good works because you believe.

      Its possible that one might do “good works”, but only for selfish reasons (for example, a politician who is NOT a true believer feeds the homeless Turkey dinner with all the accompaniments on Thanksgiving, but does so for the photo op, or good publicity, or votes. He could do it all year long, every election year, till the cows come home…he won’t be saved.

      If he thinks he believes,goes to church every week, studies his Bible because he finds it interesting, but doesn’t have a heart to love others…and do good to them, to serve others…he will not be saved. This is an empty, worthless, false faith, not a real faith.


  17. If the old testament is to the coming of Christ the New testament is to the eagerly awaited Manifest Sons of God ( Rom -8:19). They who are the 140000 ones called The Israel of God (Gal:6:16) off the Covenant(Gal 3:16) these are the first fruits of the Lamb, following Him where ever He goes, The remnant seed of the Woman, the Lamb itself being the first, arisen out of the Enmity put by God between the serpent & the Woman & by their seeds at Eden, for it concerns the salvation of man- They who are redeemed among men, all males not defiled by women meaning averse to any sort of sexual corruptions, The Elect of God- sealed with His Name, The Brethren of the Elohim(Sons of God in heaven) is but to remember one of whom (Archangel Michael) wrestled with the Patriarch Jacob to introduce the name Israel meaning The Inheritance of God -the trainers of the Manifest Sons, Spiritual in character, for the Spirit is the basis of Life, They who Reign with Christ for the 1000 years called the Millenium & the fruit of their work are the uncountable nos. in Revelations standing before the Throne of God in white garments . Again they who keep the commandments of God & have the Testimony of Jesus, for the testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of Prophecy. A visitation from them reveals the words of Jesus in the fullfillment “The many that I Love I rebuke & Chastise; “My Yoke is easy & my burden Light “, against Sin hence no appeasings contrary to the Appeasings & the Ear pleasings of this world even by its Prophets, all in all “Err nor for the Son of Man comes not to condemn but to save”. They who detect & track His Sheep , For unto St. Peter was said “Feed my Sheep’. They test the Sheep by the Two Commandments , first by the Second & then by the First , For as is written of the manner “If you cannot love your Brethren whom you can see how then can you love God whom you cannot see”. The invinsible Army of God, rank & file to the Prophecy of Joel come in the latter rain called the Post Advent
    of Pentecost filled with the Holy Spirit led by the Lamb. An Army is also to war , for against Him the nations gather to war, to the Prophecy . O Egypt , Egypt thy days are numbered, for the war of King Josiah has to be fulfilled in the Spirit & truth of it & Lo who can stand against the Lord of Hosts.


  18. Aervinn Almira says:


    im one of your avid readers though silent and my first time writing. i have question regarding the about “The great multitude” and the “Raptured Church”.

    you said in this article that ” Church Age ends with the Rapture ” where “all born again Christians / Church [have been] will be removed from Earth” and then comes the “judgments of the Day of The Lord
    ” which is also called the Great Tribulation.

    Now, why is that on your other article (Who are the Multitude of Rev. 7…) says that the multitude who got caught up to meet with Jesus during the Day of The Lord/Great Tribulation are the Raptured Church?

    I guess I’m just confuse with the sequence here, If the Rapture of The Church would take place before the Tribulation, how come that The Church would be on the same group which is The multitude of The Great Tribulation?


    • Hi Aervinn,

      Thanks for asking a very good question. What I meant to convey in this article is that the Great Multitude are indeed raptured before the Day of The Lord/Great Tribulation and are in Heaven during it- as in the entire time. I will update the article to make this clearer. Thanks again and we hope that you continue to visit the site! May God bless you abundantly.


      • Aervinn Almira says:

        Thank you for your prompt reply.
        however i had this impression that the Great Multitude are the people who will be saved during the tribulation times and that is because i read it from here


        where it says that the people left behind who come to faith in Jesus Christ as Lord after the rapture will to be known as Tribulation Saints and that in Rev 7:9 describes the number as a “great multitude, which no man could number.”

        i was at the impression then that these “Great Multitude” are the results of the effort made by The 144,000

        I think what i want to know is when did this “Great Multitude” suppose to appear before God,

        is it right after the Rapture as they are the Raptured Church


        during/ending of Tribulation as the AntiChrist will persecute all people on Earth who proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ which i supposed Christians will be martyred.


  19. YHWHisKing says:

    This is to B&E u guys are a constant BIBLICAL blessing. I am a born again believer and i must stay your faithfulness to the Word GOD and Christ Jesus is an inspiration. And by there way that comment you made in response to Toni the SDA was amazing. You utterly destroyed her with scripture!!!. Keep up the work GOD bless.


  20. I believe the rapture is before the trumpet but why and help me understand a lot of people believe it’s in the 19 chapter


    • Hi Joey,

      A lot of people think it’s in Revelation 19 because of the many articles and videos on the “post-tribulation” rapture model. The belief is basically that the Church will endure the entire Great Tribulation, get raptured just before the Second Coming and come right back down in an instant with The Lord at Armageddon. Of course the problems with this model are numerous, but most notably, we don’t see the church being raptured in chapter 19. Where on the other hand we clearly see the Raptured Church in Revelation 7.


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  22. To the 1.44 k- All that Jesus said Mary kept in her heart. In Rev. the crown of 12 stars worn by the Woman clothed in Glory denotes the remnant seed/first fruits of the lamb, the redeemed from among men-. All males, not defiled by women meaning averse to any form of sexual corruption the core of which is Sodom – The Spiritual Israel, the crown itself , the very heart of Jesus, denotes her Glory from the rising of the sun to its setting.
    Now at Cana He said “Woman, what is there between you & me, My time has not yet come” For Mary spoke in the flesh, but Jesus replied in the spirit. For when that time came, on the cross, the fruit of his words became a gift unto her “Woman, behold thy Son” a star on her crown- The beginning of redemption & in the fulness of time unto the Prophecy of the marriage supper of the Lamb


  23. monty cline says:

    amill is what i believe, to me it is the only one that makes sense. Jesus kingdom cannot never be associated with civil government. Just one more coming of Christ, not two or three. Heb. 9;26,28


  24. Paul the Benjimite says:

    Hi B&E
    Can you explain to me please why Rev chap 20 v 4 says “I saw the souls of those that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the word of God and which had not worshipped the beast neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their forheads, or in their hands {this is the point i want you to clarify) and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Now if the church has already been raptured ie: the dead and those alive will be caught up (Thess 4 v 7 Pre trib) and DONT get to the point of taking the mark of the beast and so forth, how comes those of rev 20 v4, after the church has gone, when the timeof Jacobs trouble begins and the week of Daniel chap 9 comes into play for the Israelites marked by God in their forheads, get to be resurrected and reign with Christ for a thousand years, is this ANOTHER ressurection of the dead for it says they came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Please clarify your position. Thank you…In Christ.


    • Hi Paul,

      The end times will have some very distinct groups. The Church will have been raptured at the opening of the 6th seal which starts the Day of The Lord – so right away we are gone from the Earth. Israel will be divided among the believing 1/3 remnant and the 2/3 who will remain apostate. And then among the Gentile world there will be the minority of new believers in Christ who come to saving faith during the end times and live under the reign of the Antichrist as outlaws and the rest of of the sinful, rebellious world who will comprise the majority of the global population.

      The believers among the Gentiles will face the death penalty for their faith. No questions asked. Scripture makes this abundatly clear. Refusing the mark of the beast (which can be taken in the right hand or forehead) is a capital offense. So there will be a number of new Christians, living in the Great Tribulation, who are martyred for their faith. And this only makes sense as God is providing a great deal of Gospel witness during the end times. The 144,000, the 2 witnesses who witness and torment the entire world for the first half of the 70th week, angels flying around proclaiming the Gospel and The Lord Himself speaking from Heaven are just some of the means by which witness of the faith will be made in the end times (all detailed in Revelation). So there will be new believers and they will indeed die for their faith.

      Revelation 20 is after the Second Coming, so by by any Rapture model, the Rapture has already past. And Jesus will now resurrect the Tribulation believers who were martyred. This is called “the first resurrection” because it is the first resurrection in the Manifest Kingdom of God on Earth. From a divine perspective, Revelation 20:1-4 is a very big deal (even though it gets little attention in prophecy articles and books), the Earth is literally being ruled by The Lord and Satan is now in chains. This is a new world and the Millenial Kingdom. And the Great Tribulation martyrs are the first being resurrected in this new Kingdom.

      The Second Resurrection is the resurrection of the unbelievers and occurs at the end of the Millennium. Clearly, this could not be referring to a literal “first and second” resurrections because there were many resurrections in Scripture before these (the resurrection of The Lord being one of them). What the first and second signify is their being the first two resurrections in the Kingdom of Christ on Earth. Hope that helps. God bless. -B&E


  25. Paul the benjamite says:

    Hi B&E
    In chap 24 of Matthew right at the start thedisciples ask Jesus 3 things…1, tell us, when shall these things be…2, what will be the SIGN of thy coming (greek parousia meaning presence)..3, and of the end of the world (age). I would like your thoughts about my thoughts.
    It is interesting that they asked Jesus for a SIGN of His coming (presence) because if you couple up v 30 with this particular question it says “then shall appear the SIGN of the son of man in heaven” now could (which I think is feasable) the SIGN that they (the 144,000, those sealed) see… be the rapture?, for they (the 144,000) SEE Him coming on the clouds (they dont go to MEET Him in the clouds as the church does), this would tie in with the angels words to the followers of Jesus (the fledgeling church) in Acts chap 1 v 9-11.
    These chosen 144,000 israelites, not jews, Israelites, will experience an immediate blinding flash, somewhat like the apostle Paul (theres a story there too) and they will automatically know who they are. Then as it says in v 31 ” and He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet (yom terruah, beginning of the next 3 fall feasts) and they shall gather His elect (144.000) from the four winds. Then next for the Israelites comes the “days of awe” a time to contemplate where they are in relation to God and look at themselves, there past sins and to put there house in order. Then atonement when there sins are placed upon the scape goat “The Lord Jesus Christ” its then that Romans 11 v 27 comes to full effect. After this the feast of Tabernacles, Succoth, The 1,000 year reign of Christ. Rather condensed but I think with your understanding of the scriptures you can fill in the blanks.There are also conotations for the church regarding the 3 fall feast, but for us, the church, this takes place in Heaven, but mostly brothers I’d like your thoughts on the first part of this post.
    Thanks brothers…In Christ.


    • Hi Paul,

      Thank you very much for your comments. You wanted my thoughts on the first point you make which I believe is this:

      “”In chap 24 of Matthew right at the start thedisciples ask Jesus 3 things…1, tell us, when shall these things be…2, what will be the SIGN of thy coming (greek parousia meaning presence)..3, and of the end of the world (age). I would like your thoughts about my thoughts.
      It is interesting that they asked Jesus for a SIGN of His coming (presence) because if you couple up v 30 with this particular question it says “then shall appear the SIGN of the son of man in heaven” now could (which I think is feasable) the SIGN that they (the 144,000, those sealed) see… be the rapture?, for they (the 144,000) SEE Him coming on the clouds (they dont go to MEET Him in the clouds as the church does), this would tie in with the angels words to the followers of Jesus (the fledgeling church) in Acts chap 1 v 9-11.”

      My thought is that you are absolutely correct. The Sign of the Son of Man is the Rapture. And yes the use of the Hebrew word for sign, semeion, in the singular, both times, is a grammatical indication that Jesus is addressing the question from verse 3. Additionally, contextually, we can know from other Scripture that the mourning on Earth is at the beginning of the Day Of The Lord. By the time the Second Coming is approaching, humanity is now angry, unrepentant and looking to fight The Lord.

      You also make an excellent point by referencing Acts 1:9-11. This verses is very rarely mentioned in any Rapture discussion, yet is a confirmation that Jesus makes two different, distinct, “returns” in the end time.

      And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
      10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
      11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. – Acts 1:9-11.

      The text could not be more clear. Jesus is going to return in a cloud in the future, just as He left. In Acts, He ascended (Rapture-style) into a cloud. At the 6th Seal He is going to DESCEND in a cloud. This cannot be a reference to Revelation 19 where Jesus very clearly comes to Earth on a horse destroying and conquering all evil.

      verse 31 is describing the end of the Day of The Lord/70th week when the believing remnant of Jews will be supernaturally gathered to Jerusalem, something prophesied dozens of times in Old Testament scripture.

      And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea. 12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. – Isaiah 11:11-12.

      For example.

      Again, we can see very distinctly that this is not the rapture as it differs greatly from the description of the rapture given in 1 Thessalonians 4.

      The fall feasts will all be fulfilled by the Second Coming of Christ and the events afterwards. And they will be fulfilled on their exact days, just as Christ did with the spring feasts (dying on Passover, rising on the Feast of Firstfruits, the Holy Spirit coming on Pentecost, etc.). And Even Hannukah will be acknowledged, which we can know from the time sequence given in Daniel 12 when the angel is asked “how many days…” Not to mention that our Lord validated Hannukah when he attended its feast in John 10.

      So in short, very well done. You have been able to grasp a number of complex Biblical concepts. Matthew 24 is an extremely difficult passage to interpret because of the style it is written in (which is actually consistent with lots of other chapters in Matthew but 24 stands out because it has such rich end times content). So to come to these conclusions shows you have been putting in some study time.

      Keep up the good work and may God bless you abundantly. -B&E.


  26. Paul the benjamite says:

    Hi B&E
    Its Paul here once again…I feel like I’m on a bit of a roll at the mo…. so please bare with me.
    Have you ever thought about the link with the apostle Paul, the time of the end and the Israelites conversion and the fact that he’s a Benjamite. If you go back to the mother of BOTH Joseph AND benjamin ( true blood brothers) as you know, I’m very sure, is Rachel…the one Jacob loved, his SECOND wife ( pictureing the new covenant). Well we know that Joseph pictures Jesus in this story and that he (Joseph) too was loved by Jacob…He had a dream about the sun, moon and the stars bowing down to him. The brothers did not like this one bit and plotted his demise…Joseph had a coat made of many colours…which to me is important in the story…..as i said, please bare with me, the coat, when Joseph was discarded by his brothers, was smeared with blood…a covering for his brothers sin not known or understood at the time…Now if you look to the standards of the brothers…. “jewish” tradition has it that Benjamins flag or standard was all the colours of the OTHER brothers…so God was covering ALL of the brothers with blood to sanctify them, knowing that God was sending Joseph ahead to save them as a peoples Gen chap 45 v7 and Gen 50 v 18-20. God always covers for the outworking of His purposes. Now this (Joseph and Benjamin/ his brothers lives) pictures Jesus with the whole of Israel being covered. Now shoot forward to Jesus’s trial and what happened there, once again there is blood involved with a covering taking place. The crowd are asked by Pilate who would they want to SAVE, Jesus or (Jesus) Barabbas ( meaning son of the Father) who do they cry out for…Barabbas…This brutish wicked sinner of the worst kind, “release him” they cry, let His blood be upon our heads and upon the heads of our children and the heads of our childrens children. Now when you break this down what you get is….son of the father (Jesus)……release the most wicked of sinners (us for rejecting you)….and His BLOOD DE UPON US AND our children, ( let a covering take place). I believe God was covering His elect who would have the direct line through the Benjamite class, who are a composite of the Israelite nation (All, I beleive of the apostles were Benjamites from Galilee) Now spring forward to The elects day (yet to come). I believe that Pauls conversion, remember he specifically in scripture tells us he’s a Benjamite, equates to the elects conversion. In Matt 24 v 27 it says “for as the lightening cometh out of the east and shineth even unto the west, so shall the coming (Parousia, presence) of the son of man be”, They (the elect/144.000/Benjamine class) see a flash of light that is all around them This is the miraculous conversion of this benjamin class, equal to Paul the Benjamites conversion when he too saw a blinding light…and then what does he (Paul) immediatley do after 3 days when his sight returns…he goes and preaches to the nations, exactly what this newly converted class of 144,000 will do as they have already been sanctified by the covering called out by there relatives at passover 2,000 years ago
    Also I would like to say that the woman spoken of in Rev 12, I beleive, equates to this dream of Joseph in Gen 37 v 9,10. Jacob tells him “shall I and THY mother (Rachel, the second wife/covenant) and your brethren, (all Israel) INDEED come and bow down to ourselves to thee to the earth….It happened in Joseph’s day but now the true Joseph, our Lord Jesus, and His brethren, the nation of Israel, the elect at the time of the end, truly will bow down to Him and owe there lives to Him….He went on ahead to first save the gentiles (Egypt) then His own. This woman is the very essence of the nation/144,000 giving birth to the Messiah, Rev 12 v 1,2 says “And there appeared a great wonder in heaven, a woman clother with the sun (Jacob) and the moon (Rachel) under her feet and upon her head a crown of twelve stars (Nation of Israel) a composite picture of the new covenanted nation aboout to give “birth” (a knowing of who there |Lord is) and she being WITH CHILD cried, travailing IN birth, and pained to be delivered” satan does not want this to happen at all, but she is delivered v 5 “and she brought forth a male child (Jesus being birthed in there hearts) who was to rule the nations with a rod of iron, and her child (Jesus just having been born in there hearts) was caught up unto God and to His throne, (never to be rejected again as He was caught up to heaven) v 6 ” and the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, and THEY (2 witnesses?) should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days” Now are these witness really people or are these witness the law and the prophets that “feed” these ones and nothing can hurt them while there “feeding” and “being fed” as they (2 witness and the woman) have Gods protection. I would like your thought s once again. I am sorry my thought s maybe jump here and there but I KNOW you have enough understaning of scripture and the Holy Spirits guidence to fill in my inabillity to explain….Thanks brothers…In Christ.


  27. im worried about the error that this writer is advocating , the fact that you put the trumpets in the future is clear that your understanding of the 140000 is not biblical. i would request next time dont post error cause you will mislead many peolpe and their blood will be on your hands


    • Hi Bevuya,

      Thanks for your comments. Seeing that you believe my interpretation is grave error, why not simply post the relevant passages and rightly divide them for myself and the other readers to see. Disagreement is welcome on this site. However, I do not always understand telling someone they are in serious Biblical error without actually showing the proper interpretation. I am always open to Biblical correction. So if you would care to post the portions of Scripture that you believe are relevant and then rightly divide them I would be more than happy to read it. -B&E


  28. this rapture fable is not biblical , from genesis to revelation you do not have rapture its a fallacy and human theory that cannot be substatiated by the word . 1 thessalonians 4:13. is clear it does not talk about rapture it talks about the second coming .


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