Publicity stunt? Or is this what Ke$ha has been promoting all along?
The internet is completely buzzing with Illuminati rumors about the video for pop star Ke$ha’s new single Die Young. The video, which features the singer as a satanic cult leader, heading an occult ritual inside of a church, is filled with anti-Christian, blasphemous imagery. As many sites race to decipher the meaning of the video (with most calling it a big publicity stunt), when looking at the career of Ke$ha, it becomes apparent that like many pop stars before her, she has been promoting a satanic message from the onset. And this blasphemous video is just the next step as an artist in rebellion against God and indoctrinating society into following the plans of Satan.
Do As Thou Wilt – Ke$ha Embraces Aleister Crowley’s Philosophy
Ke$ha’s music has promoted the main idea of Aleister Crowley.
“Do as thou wilt shalt be the whole of the law. Lust, enjoy all things of sense and rapture. Fear not that any God shall deny thee for this.” – Aleister Crowley
“I just want to have fun. I think across the board, with my music, my style, my makeup, and my sexuality in life, I don’t think it should be taken so seriously. The reason my record is called Animal is because I am an animal, we all are, and we have crazy instincts that maybe aren’t quote-unquote right or socially acceptable, but f— that. I think people should give in to what they feel like doing at the time and be a raw animal.” – Ke$ha (source)
Satanist, occultist and Freemason Aleister Crowley, one of the foremost black magic practitioner’s of the 20th century, and founder of the occult religion Thelema, made the above quote of “doing what thou wilt” as the foundation of his text, The Book of The Law. Crowley’s ideas and philosophies on engaging in any sexual, deviant or rebellious activity and entering the occult, have been embraced by musicians and pop stars for decades. Singer John Lennon of the Beatles, one of the most influential music groups of all time in the promotion of sinful rebellion, said:
“The whole Beatle idea was to do what you want, right? To take your own responsibility, do what you want and try not to harm other people, right? Do what thou wilst, as long as it doesn’t hurt somebody. . .” (“The Playboy Interviews with John Lennon and Yoko Ono”, by David Sheff and G. Barry Golson, p. 61)”
The Beatles revered Crowley so much they named their Sgt. Pepper album in his honor and released it on the anniversary of his death (he also pictured on the album cover). The “do what thou wilt” philosophy will always bring a person away from God and closer to Satan. The Bible says: “For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry.”(1 Samuel 15:23). The human heart, in its natural state, has a tendency towards sin, and giving int the desires of the heart will only start a process of evil. The Book of James Chapter 1 says: “But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.” Just giving into all manner of lust will lead to a path away from God and towards, witchcraft, idolatry and death.
Ke$ha’s message of sinful rebellion started with sin-promoting, former “Christian singer” Katy Perry.
From the start of her career, Ke$ha has promoted the message that everyone should act on every lust and desire they have with no regard for morals, rules or certainly God. She made her debut in pop music performing in Katy Perry’s I Kissed A Girl, an ode to lesbian experimentation that became a smash hit. Once Ke$ha’s own album came out, the theme of rebellion continued. The message of her song Animal embraces this concept:
I am in love with what we are
Not what we should be
And I am, I am starstruck
With every part of this whole story
So if it’s just tonight
The animal inside, let it live then die
Like it’s the end of time
Like everything inside
Let it live then die
Being in love with “what we are” is a rejection of any call to repentance or following the commandments of God. The Bible says that every person on the Earth has “sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” (Romans 3:23). According to her album, drinking, doing drugs and rampant sex are all acceptable acts and should be done in order to release ‘the animal’. And notice that living in sin should be done to the point of death. Ke$ha teaches a message that young people should do whatever they feel at all times. This is marketing a satanic message to the masses through the use of catchy music that is fun to dance to. There does not need to be a secret code used to spread the message of rebellion.
Here are some of the lyrics of her song Booty Call which is a celebration of having a strictly sexual relationship with a guy or female.
I like you
Don’t want to
Marry you
I really wanna
Really wanna
Do you
A favor
And let you know
That I really
Really really really
Don’t get attached
When I call you up
Trying to get some
A– all night oh oh oh
Don’t want a boyfriend
Just want to get some
Yeah yeah yeah
I really want
To get it
On with you
And from the
Very second
That I saw you
Knew you were gonna
Be my new
Booty call
Ke$ha regularly promotes raunchiness and promiscuity to her adoring fans.
Her sexual sin promotion continues on her song Blah Blah Blah.
Coming out your mouth with your blah, blah, blah
Zip your lips like a padlock
And meet me in the back With the jack and the jukebox
I don’t really care where you live at
Just turn around, boy, let me hit that
Don’t be a little bi— with your chit chat
Just show me where your d— at
The Bible is clear that fornication or sexual activity outside of marriage, is sin:
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred… Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. – Galatians 5:19-21.
Sexual sin is an easy avenue to fall into outright rebellion against God. Crowley premised much of his beliefs on sexual “freedom” and promiscuity. An admitted bisexual and pedophile, he encouraged open sexuality, not just for recreation but as a way to lash out at the Christian faith:
‘To me, every dirty act was simply a sacrament of sin, a passionately religious protest against Christianity, which was for me the symbol of all vileness, meanness, treachery, falsehood and oppression.’ (Aleister Crowley, Satanic Extracts)
Ke$ha is a champion of partying, drunkenness and rebellion.
The Bible explains that because of our sinful nature, humanity is at odds with God and will seek to oppose Him when the descent into sin goes far enough:
Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the LORD shall have them in derision. – Psalm 2:1-4.
The unbelieving world rages against God to remove the “bands and cords”, which are His Holy laws, off of themselves. Without Godly influence, a person will move closer to Satan. There is no middle ground. And pop culture has been instrumental in shifting society’s attitudes from following Biblical standards and pursuing righteousness, to a self-centered, morally ambiguous rebellion.
Ke$ha’s whose music is heavily marketed to teens and pre-teens reinforces the idea of doing whatever the heart desire. She has posted nude photos of herself, often hints that she is bisexual and brags about her sexual experience:
“I knew everything about sex before I was even seven. My mom left me at home when I was 14 with a credit card, and a box of condoms and the keys to the car and said, ‘Don’t get pregnant and don’t drink and drive’. “I had to be responsible for myself.” In the same interview Ke$ha spoke of wanting adult themes for her concerts, throwing condoms at her audience and “violating” them with her performance. (source).
The pop singer also revealed that not only did she not know her father growing up, her mother told her she was not sure who he was. Ke$ha has also featured transgendered dancers in her shows, been an outspoken advocate for homosexual rights and even officiated a gay marriage ceremony. Thus once the rebellion begins, it continues its downward spiral into every type of sexual sin possible. This again is line with the “do as thou wilt” philosophy and Satan’s agenda. Pop culture and the mass media want to pass off all these behaviors as exciting, cool and even empowering. But the Bible says otherwise:
now ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. — 1 Corinthians 6:9-10.
All the exciting, rebellious behavior puts a person at odds with God. If you are inviting sin into your life in these ways, it will only lead to God removing more of His Holy influence. And when that is removed, a person’s desires will be come even more sinister. And in Ke$ha’s case, that was quite apparent.
Cannibal
“But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.” – Proverbs 8:35-36.
Ke$ha’s first album also featured the song Cannibal, in which she sings about performing cannibalistic acts on a young man:
I eat boys up, breakfast and lunch
Then when I’m thirsty, I drink their blood
Carnivore animal, I am a cannibal
I eat boys up, you better run
I am cannibal (Cannibal, cannibal, I am)
I am cannibal (Cannibal, I am) (I’ll eat you up)
I am cannibal (Cannibal, cannibal, I am)
Whenever you tell me I’m pretty
That’s when the hunger really hits me
Your little heart goes pitter patter
I want you liver on a platter
Use your finger to stir my tea
And for dessert, I’ll suck you teeth
Be too sweet and you’ll be a goner
Yup, I’ll pull a Jeffrey Dahmer
The lyrics of this song are a celebration of gruesome murder of another person. Jeffrey Dahmer was a notorious serial killer who was sentenced to death for several murders in which he ate his victims. And this is the singer that parents today are letting their elementary students listen to (and even making their kids dance to it so they can post the videos on the internet).
Drinking blood has been a part of the occult and witchcraft since ancient times.
During her performance of the song in Australia on her Sleazy Tour, Ke$ha took what was meant to appear to be an animal heart and proceeded to drink ‘blood’ from it. Blood drinking is common in occult circles as a way to attain more power. At this point the question must be asked: what spirit is leading these performances and these lyrics? Is it a Spirit of God? No, it’s quite the contrary. Sin-promoting music is a reflection of the evil spiritual influences in one’s life. The Bible describes the state of those who are unsaved as being led by a similar spirit:
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. – Ephesians 2:2-3.
This is an artist being marketed to pre-teens and children.
The Apostle Paul, writing to the church in Ephesus explained that before they were believers in Jesus Christ, even those Christians lived their lives under the influence of the “prince of the power of the air”, another name for Satan. The Bible is clear that Satan has been given temporary authority in the Earth to set up a system of temptation to lead people away from The Lord and into sin. And the ultimate goal of the Devil is to lead as many people to hell as possible. And notice what Paul lists as the tell-tale signs of still living under this influence – pursuing whatever lusts and desires of the flesh that you have in your life – and living as if there is no consequence to sin. Precisely what Aleister Crowley, Ke$ha and so many other pop artists promote today. A person does not have to be in a secret society or cult group to be under the Devil’s influence. They just have to be far from God. Do not be deceived.
Playing the Devil
Once Ke$ha’s career was on the rise, she collaborated with death metal artist Alice Cooper.
As her career started to take off, Ke$ha of course was accepted among the music industry’s elite. The multi-platinum artist then sought out heavy metal rocker Alice Cooper for a collaboration. Their song, What Baby Wants again has the theme of destroying a person’s body and taking their soul as well. The lyrics feature Cooper and Ke$ha alternating each line, having a conversation about Cooper’s soul. And it does not hide its Satanic message:
She’ll take your bleeding heart and your soul, no regrets
Coz what baby wants (What baby wants wants wants)
Baby gets (She’s gonna gonna gonna get)
What baby wants (What baby wants wants wants)
Baby gets (She’s gonna gonna gonna get)
I gotta pretty face
Yeah but I’ve seen what’s hiding underneath
You like my pretty mouth
But you got razor blades instead of teeth
And now it’s too too late for you
Oh yeah tell me what you gonna do
I’m gonna drain your veins and bathe in your blood
Honey I seen worse then you
I’ll make you sit, beg, roll over, play dead
Ain’t gonna be your little pet
Oh really…
When asked about the idea behind the song, Cooper was very clear about its Satanic nature:
When I met [Ke$ha], I had an idea for a song,” Cooper continued. “I needed a character to play the devil. In the song, she finally has enough, and it’s time for Alice to pay her with his soul. We decided to call it ‘What Baby Wants Baby Gets’ because in the song he tries to say, ‘Hey, that wasn’t part of the deal’ and she says, ‘No, no, no, you don’t understand, what baby wants, baby gets!’ For me, it was a perfect line for her to say.” (source).
With songs about rampant fornication, homosexuality, cannibalism and bargains with Satan, it should be clear that Ke$ha’s music is promoting rebellion against God. Jesus Christ said: “A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.” (Luke 6:44-45). What is in the heart of an artist that would make this kind of music? And the listener would do well to consider what words they are singing when they listen to these songs thousands of times. Scripture explains that sin is a downward spiral that gets worse as a person is pulled farther from God. And pop culture has helped accelerate humanity’s move from The Lord. When a reprobate spirit that has no regard for moral issues, the next obvious step is embracing outright occultism. And thus making a song where you are portraying Satan taking someone’s soul is now embraced.
The Spirit Journey
Prior to releasing her new album, Ke$ha explained how she went on what she called a “spirit journey.”
Ke$ha has revealed that her new album Warrior was inspired by a spiritual journey she went on. The Supernatural singer traveled the world without any bodyguards or members of staff, stopping at various places for humanitarian work or experiences that helped her find herself.
“The theme of this record is magic. I went on a spirit journey by myself,” the 25-year-old told Ryan Seacrest on his KISS FM radio show. “No security guard. No managers. I just went around the world and lived on a boat. “I was in Africa rehabilitating baby lions,” Ke$ha shared. “I went diving with great white sharks, and just went on this crazy spirit quest. I got hypnotized, and I just really wanted this record to be really positive, really raw, really vulnerable and about the magic of life,” she explained. (source)
Once open sin has started, the transition into occultism is always the next step. Hypnosis is a very easy way of connecting with demonic forces and opening oneself to negative spiritual influence. Deuteronomy 18 is where The Lord specifically prohibits this practice:
There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch. Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee. – Deuteronomy 18:10-12.
Enchanters were known for putting people or animals into a trance-like state, very similar to what is called hypnotism today. The Bible is very stern about these practices because they invite the presence of demonic spirits. Acts 16 details the link between the occult world and demons:
And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying: The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation. And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour. – Acts 16:16-18.
The woman in this account was able to tell the future through the demon that possessed her. And she was so good that she made money for her handlers. And notice that her statement was actually true – Paul and his companions were believers in God. Yet Paul knew it was the demon speaking and not the actual woman. This shows the level of deception that can take place when one dabbles in the occult.
During Ke$ha’s journey she tweeted the following photo:
The “Spirit Journey” clearly took Ke$ha deeper into the occult.
As the Scripture quoted above said, “rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft.” Notice that in the photo from her Spirit Journey, Ke$ha is wearing a pentagram, Baphomet-style earring (the inverted pentagram in a circle, known as the Baphomet Sigil, is the official symbol of the church of Satan) as well as a lightning bolt symbol (also used as a symbol for the Devil) on the location of the pineal gland or “third eye”, the location of the path to godhood in many esoteric belief systems. Dabbling with the occult, playing ouija, hypnosis and similar activities make it much easier for demonic forces to influence the thoughts and feelings of a person. And Ke$ha did just that.
To no surprise, on this same trip Ke$ha claimed to have a sexual experience with a ghost. Beginning and End has detailed other artists – like Beyonce and Nikki Minaj, who both have stated openly that spirits overtake them during their musical performances. But in this instance a demonic entity overtook Ke$ha, for sexual purposes (interestingly, Katy Perry, who helped launch Ke$ha’s career made a song about having sexual relations with a demonic/alien entity). And rather than fear this experience, Ke$ha said she was “open to it” and made a song for her new album about it. Just as Aleister Crowley taught, once a person is steeped into occultism, it is easy to blatantly disrespect God and promote it to the world.
The ‘Die Young’ Video
The end result of rebellion is outright blasphemy and occultism.
“It’s about me being a cult leader at the end of the world,” Ke$ha said in an interview with Capital FM. “And everybody else is kind of being scared and hiding. We are running around like wild people, making out with each other and taking over a small border town in Mexico. The federals are after us because we’re so wild!” – Ke$ha on the meaning of the Die Young video. (source)
“Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh, when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them; While the sun, or the light, or the moon, or the stars, be not darkened, nor the clouds return after the rain [B&E: the darkened sun and stars are a prophetic reference to the end of world]: In the day when the keepers of the house shall tremble, and the strong men shall bow themselves, and the grinders cease because they are few, and those that look out of the windows be darkened, And the doors shall be shut in the streets, when the sound of the grinding is low, and he shall rise up at the voice of the bird, and all the daughters of musick shall be brought low..” – Ecclesiastes 12:1-5.
Here is the video for Die Young:
In light of everything detailed about Ke$ha, the video for Die Young begins to make much more sense. The video embraces everything Ke$ha has promoted through her career – sexual promiscuity, rebellion, recklessness and living fast to die at a young age. But what has thrown so many people for a loop is the open display of occult symbolism. As she stated above, the theme for her entire album is “magic.” Again, this is the path that sin will take a person on as they continue to deny God and rebel against Him. Just as Aleister Crowley’s life inevitably led him to “magick”, Ke$ha’s career has headed down the exact same road.
Ke$ha’s dancers destroy a church.
From the onset of the video the message is purely occultic. A hearse labeled “evil” drives Ke$ha and her followers to a town in Mexico. And the first place they go to is a church. Once Ke$ha kicks the door open, they proceed to destroy it, knocking over pews, breaking objects and spray painting the walls and floors with symbols. Al the while images of inverted crosses are flashing on the screen. The inverted, or upside-down cross is a symbol of Satanism and blasphemy against the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. This is very much fulfilling the prophetic words of Psalm 2: the video is truly raging against God and Jesus Christ. It is outright blasphemy and an expression of hatred for God and the divine rules and commandments of the Bible.
Inverted crosses flash on the screen repeatedly throughout the video.
The rest of the video features Ke$ha and her group gyrating, simulating fornication and dancing under a pentagram, another prominent symbol in magic and witchcraft. The pentagram symbolizes the union of the four elements – earth, wind, fire and air which any involved witchcraft believe can summon the “Fifth Element”, ether or the spirit realm, by which those in witchcraft can access demonic forces to gain powers and supernatural abilities.
A dancer invokes spirits in a black magic ritual circle.
All of these sinful ideas must be made normal and commonplace for society. And the forces of evil are certainly being successful on this front, from Harry Potter, Twilight and the hundreds of books and TV shows on witchcraft and the occult, as well the rampant sexual sin promoted on TV and the movies, society is indeed living as if it will “die young.” And this is all falling into the plan of the enemy. Artists like Ke$ha are being used to make all of this more acceptable, exciting and embraced in everyday life – to the point that even outright blasphemy and witchcraft is just fine for children to be practicing while their parents put it on Youtube.
Live or Die – The Decision Is Yours
Ke$ha pretends to die for her followers. Jesus Christ really did die for all people.
As the world falls deeper into sinful rebellion, God continues to call all people to repentance and faith in Jesus Christ. There truly is a good and evil. There is a right and wrong. And there is a Heaven and Hell. Despite what Ke$ha or any other artists promote, we are not animals. We are humans, who have souls, made in the image of God. The same God who will judge our souls once we die, young or old. The world system, headed by Satan, wants humanity to forget God in favor of whatever satisfies their lusts, and many in a desire for money and fame, have become willing servants in promoting evil for gain. Jesus Christ said: “No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.” (Matthew 6:24). Who do you serve?
Understanding occult symbols, and esoteric meanings is all good and well, but will do nothing for the state of your soul. You, the reader have to take an account of your life. Have you been living in rebellion against God? Have you been raging against Jesus Christ in your heart, words and actions? If so, then it is time to seek forgiveness. The Bible says: “the wages of sin is death.” Aleister Crowley died as a broken, heroine-addicted, diseased, frail man. And the ultimate reward for “doing what thou wilt” will be an eternity in hell for those who die without forgiveness of the sins they have committed all their lives. But unlike the character who Ke$ha plays in her video, Jesus Christ really did die – giving His life to be a sacrifice and take God’s wrath so that those who believe in Him can be forgiven and redeemed from this sinful, satanically-influenced world.
The marketing of a sinful life is reaching a fever pitch in culture today. But the good news is that God is will ready and waiting to forgive all those who come to Him. 1 John 1:9 says: “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” This is how peace is made from the war every person is at with God before believing in Him. We do not know when the end of the world will occur. But God does. And the time all people have today is a testament to God’s mercy. 2 Peter 3:9 says: “The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.” Rather than using one’s time to be in wild rebellion, Jesus Christ calls people to use their time to get right with God by putting faith in Him for the forgiveness of their sins. Lord willing, Ke$ha and her many fans will understand and believe it.
Out of curiosity, are you aware that Alice Cooper is born again? I realize that you have a personal issue with the style of music, so from that perspective I’m not surprised. However, I wasn’t sure if you knew this fact.
Aside from this point, I agree completely.
Hey RETS – I do know that Alice Cooper claims to be Christian. However I have not looked into his testimony or theology so I make no comment on his beliefs. But he is a death metal artist, which is how he is described in the article and assuming he is indeed a born again Christian, it is certainly not of God, or The Holy Spirit to make songs about the devil taking the soul of a person who made a deal with him.
Well, I’ve had the pleasure of meeting him on a couple of occasions, and he truly is a firm believer. I can tell you that he is not at all “Death Metal,” (nothing could be further, in point of fact), and that article got his genre seriously wrong.
Regardless, I recommend that you take the opportunity to learn more about him, my friend. Here are a couple of videos in which he talks about his faith to get you started. (PLEASE NOTE: I place these here as a part of my own comment, and do not in any way imply that BeginningAndEnd.com agrees, supports, or in any other way condones Alice Cooper.)
Interview:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HULrW0Zu2KE
Song- Salvation:
Well it’s not really fair for me to try and evaluate Cooper’s faith based on a short interview. I don’t know his church, doctrinal background, etc. I did watch it though and since you want my thoughts I will say that he made it clear that he does not witness the Gospel, made no mention of his sin or repentance, forgiveness, nor did he say one name in particular in that entire 8 minutes- Jesus Christ.
But again, I am not going to make any judgment on Cooper’s faith because I frankly don’t know much about it. That being said, whether he is a Christian or not is really not relevant to the point the article is making about him – he made a song about selling his soul to satan and wanted Ke$ha to play the role of the devil. It’s not a redeeming song. It’s not a warning. It’s just another rock song about Satan. There is absolutely nothing Christian about something like this it just falls in line with the spirit of rebellion against God that is so pervasive in pop culture today.
Much like certain works by C.S. Lewis, Paul Bunyan and other such Bible-believing, Christ centered, classic writers, his work since becoming a Christian has been allegorical. Frankly, from what you’ve stated here, he couldn’t have picked a better person to play the part of the devil, while his part remains that of the average seeker.
You emphatically state “It’s not a warning.” That is strictly your opinion, in this case, because countless people see it and understand it as such- Especially in the context of the album as a whole.
He and his family attend Camelback Bible Church in Paradise Valley, Arizona. The website can be found here: http://www.cbcaz.org/
Moreover, if we are to know them by their fruit, then I encourage you to look at the fruit. The fact that Vinnie shames many within his same generation within the Christian community with a 36 year marriage is only the beginning.
I don’t normally get this fired up regarding your writing, even when it’s about music; but in this case, since I know the man you’ve relegated to “Satanist,” know his heart, and know the God at work within him, I’m fired up now.
All I suggest, BaE, is that you look deeper into the man’s life from about 1997 on.
Otherwise, perhaps Darren Hirst, pastor of Ravenscourt Baptist Church, was 100% correct when he wrote:
“You don’t have to look too far on the internet to find some blog by some well-meaning Christian decrying Alice and his profession of faith. However, there can be no doubt that what he describes as ‘the truth’ [his statements that the Bible is true, and that God is the only way to go] is something that he clearly believes in and which he is living out in ways that are tangible and where his influence and musical success allow him to realise things that others of us would only dream of and which are changing lives in American inner cities. Alice won’t be fitting any time soon into the requirement of appearance and working life suitable for a Christian that might be offered by a typical conservative churchgoer in a fellowship somewhere near you. Nevertheless, others whose opinion may matter more said that the key things were to love God and to love your neighbour as you love yourself. On that scale, Mr Cooper is living out his faith pretty well.”
RETS — My brother, you are looking for an argument that’s not there. Once again, I am not passing or making any judgment on Cooper’s Christianity. You asked me to look at his video, so I did and shared my thoughts on it but again, I would never base any type of judgment on such a brief interview. So I am fine accepting his statement that he is a Christian. I also do not believe I called him a satanist. As for the song, I am definitely stating my opinion on it based on listening to it and the lyrics. Are you suggesting it’s a Christian song?
P.S. – not that this is related to Cooper but that quote you provided from Pastor Hirst – as for the key being “love God and to love your neighbor as yourself”, The Lord Jesus said those 2 commandments sum up the law and the prophets (the Old Testament). The law is not the Gospel (The New Testament). Just pointing that out not because people often quote that verse as if Jesus was explaining the Gospel when He was just trying to summarize the Mosaic law. God bless.
Am I the only one who is just wondering if it might be the case that she is not Anti Christian, but instead is actually Satanic? Satanism is a religion just a Christianity, Islam and Budhism is it, and it’s not about being evil.
Tobi, Satanism is not a true religion. “Religion” implies the trust in, and reliance upon, a deity of some kind. Contrary to popular opinion, Satanism does not; it is nothing more than Atheism with glitter and pyrotechnics.
Ke$ha may be Satanic; that is, she may subscribe to Satanism as her way of life; but to say it’s not about being evil is ignorant in the highest regard. Evil is literally the word used to describe living in a state of rebellion against God- So yes, Tobi, it is indeed about being evil; as is Islam; as is “Budhism [sic].”
Finally, Satanism, though being a strict mockery of religion and not a religion itself, is diametrically opposed to Christianity. Thus, if Ke$ha was “actually Satanic,” she would in fact be anti-Christian.
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A little research, my dear friend; next time, do a little research.
RETS, here you go again. You know not of what you preach. I will pray for you my son, I will pray for you.
For all the people who are so quick to say, “Do not judge!” – This argument is old and worn out. How are we to avoid end-time deception (or deception in general) without first judging???
We are commanded to judge in many places in the Bible. It is a shocking thought, but it is true. We are commanded to judge false prophets. How? We are to judge their fruit, which are their lifestyles. The rest of Matthew 7 says that they will come to us in sheep’s clothing.
Matt.7:16-19 says, “By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes, or grapes from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit and a bad tree cannot bear good fit.”
By their fruit…. In other words we are to judge these prophets by what they say and do.
2 Tim. 3:1 says, “This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.”
How are we to know who to turn away from if we are not to judge? We are not to have anything to do with people who claim to be Christians yet are still lovers of their own selves, covetous, blasphemers, and all of the rest of those things. In other words, people who claim to be Christians yet whose behavior proves that they do not have the power of Christianity. What is that power? The power of Jesus Christ living inside by the Holy Ghost which results in a HOLY LIFE.
The best kind of judgment and the most correct judgment is when one judges oneself, not according to what he feels in his heart but by the Word of God. There are many other scriptures about judging as well.
I realize that when one find a good article (or writes an example of such oneself), it’s sometimes difficult to limit one’s use of it in every situation one comes across.
However, in this case, Angie; while I agree with what you’re sharing, posting the same thing 4+ times not only engenders animosity towards the poster… It’s called spamming, and is by its very nature not something a follower of Christ ought to resort to.
There are obviously some very confused people on this board. I would have to disagree with you. Very few people preach the truth these days and it’s called warning the sheep. If I only post at the bottom of the board, it would probably get overlooked and me posting a strong warning numerous times will get the word out better than posting it once at the bottom. Is that what you believe about witnessing too…that you only yell it out once if it’s an urgent message because it is spamming otherwise??? I see people falling into deception and therefore hell!!! It is my duty as a Christian to do as God tells me and He wanted me to tell the message loud and clear on this particular board for whatever reason. I don’t normally do that kind of thing. Sorry if I offended you. Jesus did that often too. Furthermore, Jesus does not care about “spamming”. That is a man-made worldly term in which anyone, but a true Christian cares about. God bless you.
Allow me to bring it into perspective for you, then, as I see I was not clear enough.
How many times do we see Christ chasing after people who outright rejected Him? How many times was He pushing Himself into someone’s face while speaking?
The Christian community as a whole has got a very strange twist on the idea of just what sort of offense they are meant to bring to the world. Repetitious arguments without addressing a single real-life issue the other person has? Not the sort of offense Christ spoke of. Blocking doorways to abortion clinics? Not the sort of offense Christ practiced. Shoving those damn Chick Traks at people while telling them nothing except “you’re going to hell?” Again, not the same offense Christ is seen using.
Truth is, we personally do not need to try to be offensive: The Gospel is plenty offensive to a sinner just as it is.
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Now, with that being said, I used a “man-made worldly term” for your use of a man-made, worldly tactic. Your very first use of the material you employed was far from the “bottom” of the page. The majority of commenters read further than that just to get an idea of what’s being discussed. You chose to post the exact same material four or more times throughout the discussion- Adding nothing to them as a result of overuse. You invalidated and voided your contribution due to your repetition.
How, you may ask?
Because it shows the individuals that get notified of a response to their reply that you didn’t have anything really personal to say, regardless of how you may personally regard the message within that article. It wasn’t tailored to their specific reply; it wasn’t personal- It was cold, without real thought and without compassion. All three of these things are NOT found within Christ. Moreover, Yeshua is consistent in His personalize approach to everyone He spoke with, from those who followed Him to those who challenged Him.
So with this in mind, I have to ask: Just who was it, exactly, that told you to do what you did?
Matthew 7:6 says, “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.” It is apparent in your post, that you are a very arrogant person. I suggest you examine yourself to see if you are in the faith at this point (2 Cor. 13:5). Commenting on all of your irrelevant thoughts is a waste of my time. I posted God’s word to warn the sheep. My job here is done. May God reveal himself to you, someone who needs true discernment.
Angie, Finally someone else see RETS as the most arrogant and pretentious person on this blog site. RETS needs to check herself. Not only is she arrogogant, but she’s usually wrong on every facet of her retorts. However, the only intelligent comment she has made to date was about Alice Cooper not being in a “Death Metal” band. Alice Cooper is Rock and Roll.
The irony of this statement is blinding.
This is the biography webpage for Alice Cooper: http://alicecooper.com/master. Note that it is “/master”. Very interesting that he would choose that. There is only one master. Before you get all defensive and say that it doesn’t mean anything, ask yourself if you were a rock star, would you want your website to say “master” after your name??? That doesn’t sound like anything a true Christian would want.
Also, as you are looking at his site and watching his videos, can you honestly say that Cooper has the fear of God? Obviously not because he would be sharing the gospel to all of his fans instead of chopping of the heads of baby dolls. You would see a very visible change in him if he were truly born again. Paul said the fear of God made him want to share the gospel. Cooper seems to have anything but the fear of God. He may be like many other so-called “believers” and just believe it in his head (head knowledge only – Jesus said to believe in your heart, which results in outward behavior change). For “even the demons believe and tremble”.
I find it interesting that the same person who thinks Alice Cooper is operating from the spirit of God is now accusing me of not operating out of the spirit of God. I will give you a hint: The spirit of God loves His Word and loves His people. Someone who warns the sheep and uses Bible verses to do it, just might be operating out of the spirit of God. Versus, someone who calls himself “master” and uses no Bible verses and has no fruit, but many words: Alice Cooper. Alice Cooper is in a very special position in that he could actually influence people if he were truly a Christ follower. Christ followers promote Christ and never themselves and they do not do questionable things in the name of “entertainment”. The fear of God is severely lacking.
Um… I’m not sure why it actually posted the video itself. It’s never done that before…
Brother Rets being a born again believer is not just about speaking about your faith but rather living it. Alice Cooper can speak about his faith but is he living it? Because one who is a real born again believer would definitely disconnect himself from anything that is against his belief. A believer singing a song about satanic activities? Doesn’t sound genuine to me, don’t get me wrong am not judging anyone here but you have to becareful lest you be deceived. Beware of wolves in sheep skin, I may not have met this Cooper guy and I don’t desire to but one thing to me is clear; I don’t have to meet somebody for me to prove their faith, their lifestyle would prove it. If you are a believer live the life of a believer!
David, for a man who is not judging, you are judging a great deal.
“…being a born again believer is not just about speaking about your faith but rather living it. Alice Cooper can speak about his faith but is he living it?”
The man lives it. Meet him, and you would see for yourself. Prefer not to, and it would be far better to remain silent. “Even a fool is thought wise when he keeps his peace.”
“Because one who is a real born again believer would definitely disconnect himself from anything that is against his belief.”
Yeah, I tried that whole ‘so heavenly minded I’m of no earthly good’ approach, and then I grew up. You see, one could indeed disconnect oneself completely, were it not for one small problem: We’re told to be ‘In the world but not of it.’ Cooper proves in his everyday life that he is not of this world. My hat is off to him, however, because he remains ‘in’ the world.
“A believer singing a song about satanic activities? Doesn’t sound genuine to me…”
In all honesty, a believer espousing total disconnect sounds even less so, David. By their fruits ye shall know them. However, if one refuses to investigate the tree for fruit, one is in sin.
As for singing a song about satanic activities: May I remind you that far from being a new thing, crafting songs, plays, poems, and so forth about the perils Satan poses is millennia old?! I personally have about seven songs in my own repertoire that speak to my life prior to Christ; they detail my life while I served the forces of Hell. The ultimate message in every one of those songs is “Don’t do it. Don’t think about doing it. It’s a bad idea- Just stop.” So, you tell me, David- Am I a genuine believer?
“…you have to becareful [sic] lest you be deceived. Beware of wolves in sheep skin…”
I have always found it amazing that people can go so far afield in attempting not to be deceived that they deceive themselves about the deception that deceptively convinces them they are not deceived.
Let me step out on a branch here for one moment: You probably dislike rock music in general, am I right? I bring this up because anyone related to the genre will NEVER get a fair shake from someone such as yourself. So please do me a favor and spare me the “I’m not judging” bit.
“…I may not have met this Cooper guy and I don’t desire to…”
Then you have not studied to show yourself approved to speak about this subject.
“…but one thing to me is clear; I don’t have to meet somebody for me to prove their faith, their lifestyle would prove it.”
I very much doubt the clarity of that thought process, but that to the side: You’ve already admitted your lack of interest in the man, and his life. How then, if you are not looking, can you make the statement that “their lifestyle would prove it?” In truth, you cannot- Not without being a hypocrite.
“If you are a believer live the life of a believer!”
If you are the example of a believer; and if your post here is indicative of who you are as a believer in general; then I don’t believe I’ll be using you or your opinion as a yardstick to determine what the life of a believer truly looks like.
Now, personally, I’m willing to get to know you before I actually take that initial assessment and live accordingly. Such a shame there are those with so little faith in Christ’s redemptive work, and the Holy Spirit’s power, they they would deny that same opportunity to someone else; for any reason, at all.
What you have to love about certain Christians (and I use the term, christian, very loosely is the level of hypocrisy that abounds, esecially when ‘other’ Christians don’t come up to scratch. Is it any wonder there are a plethora of denominations worldwide? NIgh on 40,000 the most recent (christian) study shows.
For what it’s worth I believe ol’ Vincent Furnier should call ‘School’s Out’ on christianity. He was more fun when he had you all ‘Under his Wheels’.
Remember how ‘christians’ went after Elvis, The Beatles, Buddy Holly, Bill Haley, Little Richard, etc etc ad nauseum….and every artist whose music alluded to anything vaguely sexual or anti-establishment as it was bound to incite the youth and cause general mayhem all over the world.
Yawn….
To paraphrase the Rolling Stones. Y’all a bunch of Honky Tonk Women. Can I please get a bit of ‘Sympathy for The Devil?’ 😉
RETS, you can write up books to defends and try to prove that Alice cooper is a born again but it will not be useful because we don’t need all that to show people around you that you’re a christian. You will agree with me that Someone behaving like Jesus Christ and spreading the good gospel is surely named Christian, Someone behaving like Satan and spreading the bad gospel which is against the good one will be surely named Satanist. Don’t look for someone with PhD in Christianity to tell you that my statements are right or wrong, ask the holy spirit within your soul and heart.
Alice cooper does not need a lawyer to prove that he’s a christian, but you’re behaving now more like his lawyer. Let him behave like Jesus Christ and you’ll spare your time worshiping the Lord.
Call my comments judgements or whatever, I will accept and will not change them.
A shame, really, that you condemn from afar….met Alice, his wife and his grown kids at his brother-in-law’s (and former bass player) funeral in Santa Barbara, and he is the kindest, most down-to-earth gentleman in every sense of the word, who spoke very movingly of his B-i-L. He SEEMS certainly Christian to me – we spoke at length and his warmth and gentleness were apparent…so, maybe, just maaaybe Alice is the real deal…
For all the people who are so quick to say, “Do not judge!” – This argument is old and worn out. How are we to avoid end-time deception (or deception in general) without first judging???
We are commanded to judge in many places in the Bible. It is a shocking thought, but it is true. We are commanded to judge false prophets. How? We are to judge their fruit, which are their lifestyles. The rest of Matthew 7 says that they will come to us in sheep’s clothing.
Matt.7:16-19 says, “By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes, or grapes from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit and a bad tree cannot bear good fit.”
By their fruit…. In other words we are to judge these prophets by what they say and do.
2 Tim. 3:1 says, “This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.”
How are we to know who to turn away from if we are not to judge? We are not to have anything to do with people who claim to be Christians yet are still lovers of their own selves, covetous, blasphemers, and all of the rest of those things. In other words, people who claim to be Christians yet whose behavior proves that they do not have the power of Christianity. What is that power? The power of Jesus Christ living inside by the Holy Ghost which results in a HOLY LIFE.
The best kind of judgment and the most correct judgment is when one judges oneself, not according to what he feels in his heart but by the Word of God. There are many other scriptures about judging as well.
Ret is a complete dumb ass. If any person decides to be”Born again” u cant be making songs about evil even if its just art, u cant be with GOD or with lucifer. How can people be so stupid and not understand something so simple. Im glad you met him but unless u live and share in his everyday life you truly dont know him. This religious stuff is black and white and by that i mean either your with GOD or lucifer theres no in between, both these spirits have made it clear what there about,so only a confused nut job would be claiming one camp and acting like his with another…
Hmmm… Shall we get into your use of curse/swear/cuss words and the Bible? It would certainly fit your portrayed view of the Bible…
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No? What sets a song apart from spoken word, Temo? I’m waiting to find this out!
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I’m not sure, Timo- You couldn’t understand a thing I said, so…
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I’m sorry… “Religious STUFF?!”
I’m now truly looking to find out just what you actually believe, because if it’s just “religious stuff,” I doubt you’ve got much life to your faith.
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Once again… What the heck DO you actually believe? Which spirits- Are you relegating God to common spirit? Are you inferring equality between God and Lucifer?
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Uh-huh… Reminder-
Now it happened, as Jesus sat at the table in the house, that behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and sat down with Him and His disciples. And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to His disciples, “Why does your Teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”
When Jesus heard that, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’ For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.” Matt. 9:10-13
And when the scribes and[a] Pharisees saw Him eating with the tax collectors and sinners, they said to His disciples, “How is it that He eats and drinks with tax collectors and sinners?”
When Jesus heard it, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.” Mark 2:16-17
Then Levi gave Him a great feast in his own house. And there were a great number of tax collectors and others who sat down with them. And their scribes and the Pharisees[a] complained against His disciples, saying, “Why do You eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?”
Jesus answered and said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.” Luke 5:29-32
Yes indeed, I’m very glad to be accused of sitting with sinners… Makes me feel that much closer to Christ.
3 Cheers for RETS! RETS, YOU ARE AWESOME and YOU ARE RIGHT ON about Mostly Everything YOU SAY 🙂 ! WAY TO GO, RETS! HI, RETS I AM Noelle 🙂 ! Rets, YOUR REALLY GOOD and NICE for Standing Up for Alice Cooper! YES, YES, YES, and YES, Alice Copper is a Christian! and NO, NO, NO JUST because SOMEONE Sings and Plays Death Metal or Heavey Metal DOES NOT MAKE THEM EVIL or of The DEVIL! YES Now some Death Metal Singers are BAD and Worship The Devil but NOT ALL of Them! Some of them LOVE and Believe in God and SAME DON’T Believe in God or Satan! Everyone is Different, SO STOP JUDGING EVERYONE the SAMEWAY! ONE Person CAN have Tattoos and Piercings and They Can BE A LOVING Christian and then Another Person CAN have Tattoos and Piercings and THAT Person can be an Atheist or a Satan Worshipper! So FYI, NO NOT ALL People with TATTOOS and PIERCINGS are EVIL, BAD and Worship the Devil because Some of them are God LOVING Christians and they would give YOU the Shirt of there Back, if YOU NEEDED IT! MY Grandpa was a God LOVING Christian MAN! My Grandpa Lived HIS LIFE UP to the Day HE DIED, HE LIVED HIS LIFE for Jesus! He READ His Bible ALL the Time, He Prayed Morning, Noon, and Night, and He Talked about God’s LOVE! My Grandpa would Help ANYONE Out, if they NEED Help! My Grandpa Fought in the Army WAY, WAY Before I was EVEN Born! While My Grandpa was in the Army He got 2 Small Tattoos! One on His Arm and One on His Chest! So My Grandpa had 2 Tattoos! SO NO, NO, and NO, NOT Everyone with Tattoos and Piercings are EVIL and BAD! STOP, STOP, STOP IT! STOP JUDGING EVERYONE The SAMEWAY!
@RETS
please tell me what being Born again means.
because Bible specifically lays out the fact and pointers of Being Born again, or traits of a born again believer.
if you are a Born Again, you wouldn’t do blasphemy or do anything with occult or promotes evil.
Illuminatee’s motive is to make “evil look good”.
and bible does says “woe to people who make evil look good”
I like how “beginning and end” points out these signs in all these satanic music, which is so blind to an open eye unless someone actually observes the videos.
even movies such as Life of Brain.
I remember watching that movie and I LOL, while when I watched Passion of Christ I was mourning and weeping so badly.
The difference? one is a mockery about Jesus and the other to make you have feelings for Jesus.
And for a person to ignore the message of Life of Brain and say “it’s just a movie man, to make fun of a guy who is trying to prove he isn’t the Messiah”.
Isn’t that what the whole purpose of an Anti Christ is? to prove there is no Jesus?
Life of Brain isn’t OBVIOUSLY saying right in your face that Jesus is a false Messiah, but it did it in an entertaining way to make you believe.
we goes back to this music video and other music videos.
All sublimal messages of Anti Christ.
just because the evil messages doesn’t affect me or you or majority doesn’t mean it’s a flunk. There is always a story behind evil crimes, and when people misbehave or commit evil acts, it’s all tie to these type of music videos. If satan can drag 1 person to hell, he’s happy!
So if 1 person does evil through the music video, the Anti Christ has succeeded!
Okay, first off, I’m not sure what Life of Brian has to do with anything. Even as an illustration of a point, that’s almost non sequitur.
Secondly, and this is one of the few issues I have with anything related to the dreaded Illuminati, which is the real enemy here? Is it Satan, the enemy of souls, or is it a shadow organization that operates, for better or for worse, within the confines of our dimensional space and time? To see the way in which you’ve ascribed something akin to fear to the “Illuminati” makes me wonder how firm your own salvation is; and how firm your own faith is.
Thirdly, I agree that there is always a story behind crime: However, there is also always a story behind EVERY posting online; behind every news article; behind every opinion. Every action has a conscious or subconscious thought behind it; thus, a story. So let me ask you what your story is- Why is it, Xino, that while I can appreciate your passion, I smell fear coming from your post in waves?
So, does the fact that Satan has already dragged countless people to hell mean that he’s won? Does the fact that he will have dragged thousands to hell before I’ve hit “post comment” mean he’s won?
Moreover, Xino, the Bible is full of examples of evil being done. In nearly every case, it is shown to be punished; the Word is also clear that even if we don’t see it, evil gets what’s coming to it. With this in mind, what is the difference between reading it out of an NIV, or an ESV, or an Amplified, or even a KJV- And seeing such confrontations played out within the confines of a song, or a movie? Or for that matter, through a music video? (Note that I am not defending Ke$ha here; I agree with BaE on the main points of his story.)
Finally, help me to understand how the actions of, say the Unibomber, are tied to music videos. For that matter, help me to understand how the crimes against women which are perpetrated within Muslim countries; crimes against which there is little to no outcry from the western world; is tied in any way to “these type [sic] of music videos.”
Remember: “It is not what goes into a man that defiles him, but that which comes out of the man that defiles him.”
@Rets
why is it almost every article that dissects an artist videos and reveal the evil schemes and subliminal messages, you are always here to defend the artist, yet you act as a Christian or yet you show from your action you know the bible and about Christianity.
why do you sense fear in my post? because it shows you may not have the Holy Spirit in you?
I fear nothing, Jesus is my strength and my defence, he’s my refuge and fortress and I will never be shaken.
one who has the Holy Spirit will not walk in the way of this world. One with Holy Spirit will have the Fear of God, what is the Fear of God? to hate evil and love Good, which is also the beginning of Wisdom. When you have wisdom you will tell what is right and wrong.
Ephesians and Galatians provides proofs and traits of how one who lives by the Holy Spirit should live his life for Jesus. A person who is born again is dead to his old ways and made alive in Jesus as Romans proved this (you did’t even answer my question about Born Again:/).
I am not here to argue and this will be my last reply to you (for the sake of argument). “A good tree does not bear bad fruit” neither does a bad tree bear good fruit.
If you claim Alice Cooper is a Christian and hold your words to him and meeting in person, then I’m afraid you are gullible and deceived.
Jesus said you should watch out for Pharisees and false prophets, “you will know them by their fruit”. So if Alice who claims to be a Christian (like majority do, as I once thought so and claimed so before), if Alice says he’s a Christian and he produces the types of music, do you think he’s bearing Good Fruit or Bad fruit?
Because if you are going to defend him and not see the -truth- everyone here does, then you may not have the Holy Spirit or Wisdom.
What does Life of Brain have to do with this? to prove something about Wisdom!
One movie makes a fun about Jesus while another movie makes you have feelings for him.
A music video that has so many satanic things to it while the person linked to the video claims to be a Christian.
so why shouldn’t Life of Brain be used with this?
I use the bible to make my judgements. Please you should work out “your salvation with fear and trembling”.
My friend, this is not an argument; it is a dialogue. It is a conversation between two people. I am not arguing; I am asking questions. These questions, by the way, are asked to help me understand your point of view better so that I might respond to you more fittingly.
I responded to you as I did because I sensed fear coming from you regarding the Illuminati. I personally do not fear the Illuminati, because He who is in me is greater than He who is in the world. (If that was not present, then I apologize.) Nevertheless, I find the obsession over this shadow organization to be mind-boggling. One would almost think that we were at war with an entity created of people, as opposed to entities bound and determined to destroy people.
These are the thoughts that guided my response to you as regards the Illuminati- That you seemed strongly concerned about their power, yet flippant when it came to the Devil’s; that you ascribed every crime and evil action to music videos, when the first music video came out in the 1930s; and that the mere mention of the Illuminati seems to send shivers down the spines of more people than it should.
As pertains to that ludicrous abomination of celluloid, The Life of Brian, I could not make it past the first ten minutes. Monty Python can be funny, but they do not have the kind of material that appeals to as large a group as Ke$ha. This is the reason I stated that even as an illustration, the movie was not applicable. In truth, I think I had a foggy idea of what your were attempting to state, but it was not clear.
As to the satanic symbolism, I already stated that I agreed with this article on the whole, and took exception only to the insinuation that Alice Cooper was in some way tainted or evil (other people’s understanding, not BaE’s words) because of his association with Ke$ha. SO, on this point, we agree- This is one reason why I read and support BeginningAndEnd.com.
Now, moving forward to not doing “blasphemy,” “anything occult” or anything that “promotes evil.” I agree that this is an outward sign of holiness- But is it true Christianity? Before you take this to mean that I am promoting anything hellish, let me clarify my statements.
The Catholic Church states that speaking against the Pope is blasphemy, and against God, no less, because the Pope is “God’s representative on earth.” (Personally, I thought that job was the Holy Spirit’s, but I digress…) The Lutherans believe that blasphemy consists of anything that could even be construed as “impious language.” In other words, the majority of them are guilty of blasphemy, because normal conversation is impious, no matter how good you are. The Evangelical Baptists differ slightly from church to church, but generally believe that cursing God is blasphemy. With this said, how are we defining blasphemy? I know how my Bible defines it, and oddly enough, what my Bible says, and what the church practices today… Well, they’re two very different things.
As far as the promotion of evil, I agree; I think you and I have very different thoughts on what constitutes “evil” and what constitutes “promotion.” From what you’ve posted here and on other entries, you seem to believe that anything even minutely related to the Devil is “evil,” and you seem to think that anything which shows these things to be “promoting” that evil. I agree that anything the Devil has a hand in is evil; I agree that if someone is standing on stage, for instance, and shouting “follow the Devil,” they are certainly promoting evil. However, I go with the definition of the original Hebrew word for evil, which is defined as “rebellion.” So, quite frankly, you and I and I’m sure BaE himself have been guilty of being evil. Moreover, to this day, we still slip into evil. Ever speed on the road? Evil. Ever not pray when you feel like you should? Evil. Furthermore, promotion does not constitute portrayal. Portrayal of evil is absolutely Biblical, especially when said evil is met with a fitting demise.
What I said about Satan being happy with the millions and the thousands of souls- I stand by that. Does it mean that he wins? No. Are you or I going to be able to prevent him from getting a single soul from here on out? No. However, we can obey the Lord and follow His direction- “Reach one to reach one.”
I don’t know where God has called you, David. But I know that God has called me to minister to and evangelize a segment of population that the traditional church wants nothing to do with. The punks, the goths, the satanists, the wiccans, etc… These are the people God has sent me to, and if I come across strongly in my defense of their basic humanity, potential for salvation and need of prayer and Divine intervention, well- You’ll just have to forgive me. I’ve got a fire in my bones. What I find most disgusting about the traditional church today is that they are more willing to preach to murders and rapists than they are to witches and goths. So, if you pick up on some of that animosity, just understand: I absolutely spit on these so-called churches. They abdicate their responsibility as Christians, and as such, have no portion in the Kingdom of Heaven.
Now, I did not come here to “defend the artist.” I’ve said it twice now, and I’ll say it again: I agreed with BaE on Ke$ha. I do not agree with him on Alice Cooper, and yes- It is because I’ve gotten the chance to meet him. More importantly, I’ve had the chance to pray with him, and the chance to worship with him. I strongly advise you, David, before you go any further in speaking against him, that you sit quietly before the Lord on the matter.
Furthermore, I do not EVER come here to “defend the artist.” Look me up. I clarify facts, and I correct fallacies, but I have NEVER defended an artist when the whipping was deserved. Take the article on Odd Future that BaE wrote some time ago. Not once did I defend Tyler; I did, however, point out the fact that satanism and lucifarianism are two very different things; I also pointed out that satanism is nothing more than a “glorified” form of atheism. That’s not defending Tyler- That’s loving truth. Like I said, look me up: I’m still going back whenever there’s a comment. Check out my blogs. I’ve got nothing to hide- Nothing at all.
Now, you wanted to school me on being born again. I decided to skirt that at first to address the other issues that I picked up; but sure, let’s talk about that.
I was redeemed from a life of following Satan. Not in the “I lied, cheated and stole” way, but in the “I performed rituals, had power over people’s minds, and commanded the forces of darkness” way. What’s more, I knew exactly who Christ was at the time, and I chose willfully to follow Satan. The reasons I did this were many, but the largest was that God never seemed to do anything for me. I was selfish, and Satan gave me everything I ever wanted, and then some.
With me so far?
When I killed myself, (and I was unhooked from the machines, with all work stopped on me for over ten minutes), I was saved from Hell itself by the voice of Yehshua Ha’Meshiach calling out one word: My first name. It is one of the most common, and yet from His lips, it had the power to raise me out of darkness and into light. Because I’m stupid, however, I continued to run for another year and a half after. It was only after He showed me that He cared about even the little things, (removing the four inch raised scars from my wrists), that I returned to Him.
It was at that point that I was born again- Again. (I do not subscribe to the idea that one can say a prayer and be saved forever. That’s another whole topic, however.) This time, however, I did it with my whole heart, soul and spirit. That is why I say, emphatically, that I have “signed up to die.”
Now, what are the signs of being born again? Well, according to the Bible, “by this ye shall know them, that they love one another.” Also, by the fruits of the Spirit. Oddly enough, nothing in the Bible says “ye shall know them by their wisdom,” or “ye shall know them by their dress” or “ye shall know them by their hairstyles, lack of piercings and absence of tattoos.” It doesn’t even say that one would know a follower of Christ by his lack of cussing, though the Bible has a lot to say about the use, time and placement of language.
More importantly, the fruit of a person is not determined by whether or not they play electric guitar, listen to rock ‘n’ roll or rap, wear black clothing, and/or sing in a multi-million dollar “metal” band. (Still laughing at that description, BaE!) If you are looking at the music, and you dislike the music in the first place, then you are allowing your own personal tastes to blind you to what is actually happening.
Pray on the issue. Meditate on the Word. Listen for the voice of God. DO WHAT HE SAYS.
That is the greatest mark of a Christian as opposed to anything else.
Over 7k results on Google alone wherein the “phone number” given here is used… And each posting is slightly different.
Regardless of who you are, don’t email or call a conman.
BaE, you may want to remove this comment and his. As I said, it’s verifiable spam.
Thanks for the heads up. It’s been removed.
“Spam police” at it again? Lol 🙂
I know what everyone’s argument will be and always is in these types of discussions…For all the people who are so quick to say, “Do not judge!” – This argument is old and worn out. How are we to avoid end-time deception (or deception in general) without first judging???
We are commanded to judge in many places in the Bible. It is a shocking thought, but it is true. We are commanded to judge false prophets. How? We are to judge their fruit, which are their lifestyles. The rest of Matthew 7 says that they will come to us in sheep’s clothing.
Matt.7:16-19 says, “By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes, or grapes from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit and a bad tree cannot bear good fit.”
By their fruit…. In other words we are to judge these prophets by what they say and do.
2 Tim. 3:1 says, “This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.”
How are we to know who to turn away from if we are not to judge? We are not to have anything to do with people who claim to be Christians yet are still lovers of their own selves, covetous, blasphemers, and all of the rest of those things. In other words, people who claim to be Christians yet whose behavior proves that they do not have the power of Christianity. What is that power? The power of Jesus Christ living inside by the Holy Ghost which results in a HOLY LIFE.
The best kind of judgment and the most correct judgment is when one judges oneself, not according to what he feels in his heart but by the Word of God. There are many other scriptures about judging as well.
To make this more “personal” (this is for RETS since he said I am “spamming”), I’ll add one thing: I mainly posted this because RETS is constantly condemning people for judging. I just want people to get ready for deception that’s coming to the church. I believe the best way to guard against this deception is to read your Bible daily and love the truth. Loving the truth is so very important. Love it at all costs, even if it means laying down your pride and everything you thought to be true. The Bible even says that if you do not love the truth, you won’t be saved at the end: “and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.” (2 Thes. 2:10)
Another big problem that I believe will lead Christians right into deception is the “hippie-like love movement” that’s going around in the church today (along with the sloppy grace message). While many of us seek to focus on the beauty of the Lord (and we should), it seems that there are few who care to consider the fear of the Lord. According to 2 Corinthians 5:11, it is this very fear which lead Paul to “persuade men”. Although the God of the Bible is a God of love and beauty, He is also a God of truth and justice. So a “love” without truth and justice is not really love at all.
I believe another big problem in the church today is lawlessness. Jesus stated that “because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold” (Matthew 24:12). I believe that this is exactly what has been happening today as the result of teachings that many of us find to be more “positive”: Because lawlessness abounds (people are being encouraged to feel good about themselves rather than being encouraged to deny themselves as Jesus taught in Matthew 16:24-26), the love of many has indeed grown cold.
Oh fun. A troll.
She is promoting all forms of rebellion and also immorality as well as satanism. God help us… Thanks for updating me B & E.
36 Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder.
37 And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy.
38 Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.
39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?
41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.
43 And he came and found them asleep again: for their eyes were heavy.
44 And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words.
45 Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.
46 Rise, let us be going: behold, he is at hand that doth betray me.
“Without Godly influence, a person will move closer to Satan. There is no middle ground. And pop culture has been instrumental in shifting society’s attitudes from following Biblical standards and pursuing righteousness, to a self-centered, morally ambiguous rebellion.”
Important point, great article, B&E!
I watched the new Ke$ha video a couple of days ago and was rather shocked by its blatancy. It doesn’t leave much to interpretation. Hopefully, it will wake some people up.
Unfortunately, music videos of artists in my home country Denmark also contain satanic imagery. I have provided a link if you are interested: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyBULYjyydc
God Bless, Jonas
Hey Jonas,
Tak for your comments and the video link. The whole look and style of it reminded me of Jay-Z’s ‘on to the next one’, but even more blatantly satanic. Especially with the jackets that say “Iscariot” on them. The Christian faith is being attacked but remember Christ’s words:
“…upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” — Matthew 16:18. Continue to share the Gospel and proclaim the precious name of Jesus in Denmark. God’s Word will always prevail. God bless.
All right. Triple checking that section of the article, and I see where I was mistaken. No, sir, you did not call him a satanist. I apologize for my error.
The reason I mentioned that his testimony ought to be looked into further was not because you were judging him, but rather because of the apparent fact that he is, in your opinion, suspect. (Note that I say “apparent”; this coming from your initial reply.)
Furthermore, did you notice as you read the lyrics that the name of the fictional protagonist is “Stephen.” I must assume based upon your comments that you are not aware of “Stephen’s” existence in a prior album- That album, like the one this song is from, is themed. In other words, taking a line or even a song by itself from this album is a bit like taking a single scene from a play and judging the entire production by it. It doesn’t make sense to me, personally.
Considering the fact that the Bible is full of stories wherein a person is damned and ultimately meets their own fate, I do happen to consider this song, within the context of the album as a whole, to be delivering a Christian message. Notice that Stephen never calls upon anyone but himself to defeat Satan. Notice, too, that he believes himself to be above the influence of evil. The ultimate end for one such as this IS the fires of Hell, unless they turn. In Stephen’s case, he waited too long.
From this same album is the song “Made of You.” The song is the redemptive climax of the album’s main protagonist. Following this are the two songs in which the evil from the rest of the album is judged and punished.
The reason I bring these to light is because, as I said, the album as a whole must be considered, because the whole project tells a single story.
I am aware that Vinnie is and was a sidenote to the larger issue of Ke$ha herself. I realize there was no argument against him, but rather the song they did together in which she played the devil.
Where I was originally going with my line of thought was that Vinnie could not have chosen a better individual to represent the devil- And I have little doubt that he did so on purpose.
Aside from everything else….I just think the very strong anti-christain message is an outrage. I have respect for peoples beleifs and If they was to be making anti-muslim videos for example there would be an uproar
Thank you for responding to my post yesterday, B&E!
I was just over at Vigilant Citizen to read his Ke$ha article and was reminded why I stopped visiting that site. The underlying message of his articles seems to be: The Illuminati controls the World and will implement their N.W.O., and you can’t do anything about it. There is absolutely no hope, no solutions offered in his articles. Trying to stay neutral in a spiritual battle makes absolutely no sense.
May God continue to bless you, B&E, for putting things into the right context. Everything is progressing according to God’s plan and not the plans of the Elites.
God Bless, Jonas
Omg Jonas! I too feel the same way about V.C. confusing indeed to detail the enemy plans without actually naming him or calling it something else. I really like this site because it is backed up with Scripture. B&E is an excellent site when explaining to teens why this pop culture stuff is no good. Great job B&E! Oh and I think Dr. O is back using another name. These comments are something to read I’ll tell ya, lol
“Oh and I think Dr. O is back using another name.”
LOL! Too funny. (I do love Dr. O though).
Glad you liked the article. God bless and Happy Belated Thanksgiving!
Amen! And thanks very much.
I’m so glad I found this site. God bless those behind it. May He give us the strenght and courage to stand for Him in these last days. Too many Christians are afraid to stand and speak up for fear of persecution or being mocked.
Once again, I’m grateful for this website :).
I told my mother as soon as I saw the video that you guys would be on it. This video is so unapologetic and so obvious it cannot be denied. What do you think about Dynamo, a magician who has a TV show in the UK? Some of his “magic tricks” are otherworldly I just wanted to know your thoughts.
Hey D,
I looked up Dynamo and it looked like street magician type tricks. Was there a particular episode or video that was more spiritual in nature that you can point me to?
B&E, praise be to God for using you to open our eyes. My post is unrelated to this article, it’s about the upcoming movie ‘Noah’. Here’s the plot: Subject to divine visions foretelling the end of the
world, Noah attempts to tell his people to cease
their mistreatment of the earth in order to be saved.
No one listens to his warnings, and Noah and his
family are cast out to fend for themselves in the
wilderness. Noah approaches a race of giant six- armed angels known as “Watchers” to rally them to his cause….not only that but in the movie there’s OG, a giant 6 armed angel who ‘helps’ Noah. Can you look into it & maybe expand it into an article. I know the movie won’t be out til 2014. Thanks
Hey Justin,
Thanks for your kind words. I am very much aware of this Noah movie and am working on an article on it. In fact, there will be articles on many of the new “Christian” movies coming out in the next year (Mary, Mother of Christ; Redemption of Cain for example). God bless.
Thanks for this enlighting article B&E, m a strong believer but of late had let the guard down and lust was fast taking its toll in my life, but after going through this…its like m reivigorated with amazing strength and power to resist sin and stay pure as much as i can…thanx once again for be so helpful in helping me to examine my faith, im in no way a fan of secular music, i even question some so called hristian music but when i wen thru this i found myself at par with pple who absorb this garbage into their lives, help me resist from anything set up for me by the devil, the world is close coming to an end and the Church of God need stay ready for the holy Groom
God bless and the Love of Christ be with you
Thanks H. I am glad the article strengthened you in the spiritual warfare against sin and the agents of the adversary. It is impressive and a sign of the Spirit of God in you that you would be willing to confess that you may have fallen into sin with a repentant heart. Continue to pray for faith and stay close to The Lord. It will make the battle against the flesh that much easier. God bless.
Sure, thank you so much for being so humble to be a conduit of unedited truth, will be glad also to receive additional material like sermons from you as well.
God bless you
I thought christians weren’t supposed to judge? It states that in the bible, correct? I’m a firm believer in God and Jesus. But you better believe I’m a normal 25 year old. A few tattoos, love to have some drinks, listens to country, has some piercings. I’ve never committed a crime and have always listened to my parents. I thank god morning that I wake up and thank him for everything he has giving me in life. Being around hardcore christians has made me realize how hypocritical some of you are. You pick and choose what you want to believe from the bible. Every church’s bible is different and it’s all church rules. Point being just because I have some tattoos or I have a few drinks over the weekend after a rough work week does not mean I’m going to hell. I don’t think God is going to stand at the gates and say “Although you were a great person growing up, working with children and elderly, donating money to charities, and volunteering at the fire station, you have a tattoo, I have to send you to hell.” That is such malarkey. You born agains put people into a panic. AS LONG AS YOU BELIEVE AND WELCOME JESUS AND GOD INTO YOUR LIFE, AND WERE A GOOD PERSON ALL YOUR LIFE, YOU WILL MAKE IT TO HEAVEN! EVEN IF YOU HAVE TATTOOS, OR PIERCINGS, OR SWEAR HERE AND THERE. I’ll see you guys in heaven with my tattoos and piercings and you will see how wonderful of a person I am.
My dear woman, I tend to agree with you on much of what you posted. Before I get to the only point I disagree on, let me ask you a question in the hopes you’ll come back to answer it:
What in the above article prompted this post?
Now, the only point I disagree on; and have significant Biblical basis for from every church but Universalist; is this part of your post:
I’m sorry, but no matter how you read your Bible, it will not tell you that salvation and the final destination of Heaven can be attained through “being a good person.” In fact, the Word of God says very much the opposite, and in many places. For example:
I’m not, in any way, attempting to pound away on you; the fact is simply that “being good” doesn’t cut it. In fact, it would seem that, according to God, a human being’s goodness is not remotely acceptable. Moreover, if anyone, (me, you, BaE), claimed to be a “good person,” we would be lying. Not one of us is good- Even Christ said that. However, through Christ we are saved; through Christ, we are justified; and through Him we are forgiven of everything- Including our attempts to “be good” on our own.
The clincher, unfortunately, is that we’ve got to request it- And then, we have to do the hard part… Obey.
God bless ya, Marie. And for the record? This is all coming from a 31 year old, tattooed, occasionally drinking, regularly smoking, “still-not-perfect,” rap artist. 😉
Take care.
A lot of people on hear are talking about judgment. Yes, Jesus did say, “Judge not lest ye be judge.” But read the full passage.
Matthew 7:1-5,” Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Mat 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam [is] in thine own eye?
Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye. ”
He did not say not to judge at all, he was saying not to judge hypocritically. Make sure you are right with the Lord before you speak out against others. Paul also said to judge righteously. If someone is doing wrong, we as Christians are allowed to judge not by our own understanding but only based on the word of God. It is true there are some issues that we have no reason to comment on. But there are major spiritual issues that need to be addressed especially because a lot of these musicians, movie makers,etc. are teaching satanic doctrines to people everywhere. And Christians especially are the ones who are being the most decieved. Now on the topic of Alice Cooper, he may be a Christian but it appears he does show signs of compromising, considering the people he collaborates with like Kesha, Rob Zombie,etc. One of the reasons many of us in the American church are ineffective is because we are the Laodicean church that likes to compromise and keep a little bit of what we had in the world. Jesus also said you can not serve to masters. Alice Cooper seems like a nice enough guy, who has some conflict. We need to pray for him and Christians like him, so that he can come in to the fullness of what God has for him.
By that logic, the band P.O.D. is at worst satanic, and at best just as confused: This, in spite of the fact that they turn their merch tent into an evangelistic outreach every Ozfest.
We are told that we are to go “into all the world and make disciples of all men,” and that we’re “in the world but not of the world.” Alice Cooper, and my own example of P.O.D., demonstrate daily that they are not of the world that they are in.
Just something to think about.
I am not going to judge those guys because even though I don’t agree with the setting they are deciding to do this in, at least making efforts to evangelize which I highly respect. Besides Ozfest is just a festival for the genre, not a collaboration with Ozzy.But what evangelism does Alice Cooper do?I don’t know him, but as a Christian who has to stand for righteous, how can he perform with people like Kesha who perform songs about demonic activities and promiscuity. Consider Amos 3:3, “How can two walk together, if they be not agreed.” And also 2 Corinthians 6:14,”Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?” Yes Jesus said to go in to all the world, but not as people who perform with non-believers, we go in to the world with the ultimate goal of evangelism and to make disciples. As I said before he may very well be a Christian, but he shows some signs of compromise. I also never said he was satanic, I was referring to a lot of these performers like Kesha and the like who are being used to spread these ungodly values. I’m not trying to tear him down, I just feel that so many of us would want to reach people on the level that Alice Cooper potentially could, and he decides to keep it to himself. That band you mentioned are doing the work and they need to be applauded, but I do feel that Alice Cooper needs our prayers and meanwhile we should do what we can to win the lost.
*righteousness
As a point of clarification, the Ozfest lineup is determined every year by a board, and the final say is given by Ozzy. Moreover, Ozzy was the one who gave P.O.D. their first invitation: When he was asked if he knew they were a Christian group, Ozzy said “I don’t care; they know their music, and they know how to put on a good show. If they encourage people to do right, so much the better.”
Right now, Alice Cooper teaches Bible Study in his home church, and assists in local outreach. Since becoming a believer, his books all make a point of his faith and do not shy away from some very tough moral judgment calls.
As for collaborating with secular artists- I have no issues with that at all. I’ll explain why…
The first upcoming single from my new album is titled “Shadows of The Damned.” The chorus is:
“I’m not welcome in your world//I’m too bent on what I’ve heard//I know the hopelessness they feel//you treat it like it’s barely real//They need the hope that we have//But too often they feel your laugh//I know it’s real and not a scam//So I live among the shadows of the damned.”
This song features an appearance from an artist known as K.C. Sn*w, a young man who is extremely misguided, to say the least. Why would I collaborate on this song with him? For several reasons, not the least of which is the wide open lines of communication between he and I now. (Pray for him- The devil still calls, but he is slowly realizing that the Lord is his only way out.) Another reason is his near rabid fan-base. There is a strong Gospel message in the song, and not only was he made a part of it, but his fans will now hear and receive it.
Why Alice chose Ke$ha, out of everyone, I’ve no idea. Regardless, he could not have made a better choice for the part of an overtly sensual, tempting “Satan.” When one takes into account the fact that the character of Steven in the song makes the wrong choice and is thus taken into endless torment as a result, the message of the song is clear: 1) Don’t trust the Devil at all; 2) Don’t attempt to beat the Devil on your own.
Ke$ha is one in a long line of artists that has been/is being used to spread ungodly “values” to the youth of the world. However, while I do not support her nor do I recommend anyone else to do so, I do highly suggest that she and all other secular artists be kept lifted up in prayer. Some of the best Christian artists today were secular artists at one time: Men like Rick Cua, Mark Farner, John Schlitt for the “older” generation; folks like Pettidee, the OGGz, Brian ‘Head’ Welch and ‘Feldy’ of Korn for the younger. Prayer is the most powerful weapon in the Christian’s arsenal, and it ought to be utilized far more often in cases such as these.
I mean, I still don’t agree with performing with those who are actively praising sin, but I do believe God works through everything and if Alice Cooper is doing the work then I really have nothing else to say. God bless him. God bless you too in what your doing brother.
Leviticus 19:28
28 You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor tattoo any marks on you: I am the Lord.
There is a direct quote against tattooing yourself. Not to say that I’m condemning you for having them to begin with (forgive them Father, they know not what they do!) but it’s probably a good idea to not continue desecrating the Holy Temple that is your body.
I have tattoos also, but as much as I want more I refrain from doing so simply because He brought this quote to my attention. He’s quick to forgive, and quick to forget. Have you asked for forgiveness for marking yourself in this way? I’ve had to.
1 Peter 1:13
13 Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
This is such a funny post.
Firstly, the accusations of Life of Brian have been going on for years.
Anyone who rags on it is blind. The movie does not make fun of Jesus AT ALL, but was meant to show just how dumb, idiotic and blind were those who were waiting for a Messiah to arrive and he was already there! Right in front of them! Don’t you lot remember the Sermon on the Mount scene?
No doubt when Jesus comes again the same bunch of hypocrites and holier than thou Proper-Reborn-Christians wont recognse Him then either. Chances are he’ll be in the pub with Alice Cooper while you lot are frothing at the mouth screaming….”Pick, pick me!!|
Furthermore, if Alice Cooper considers himself and his family Christian, then that all that matters. Any issues are between him and his god. and I am pretty sure he doesn’t give a rat’s bum what someone else’s ‘version’ of a reborn Christian is.
As Alice might say… Hey Stoopid! you can Feed my Frankenstein. .
No true Christian would involve themselves in a video with Ke$ha as the one shown above. I’ve always loved Elvis and all the old Rock and Roll songs, but the stuff put out today is in a whole new ballpark!
I actually hate this song and all her music. It’s just trashy to me. I had this song on in the car once but I wasn’t even paying attention to it, it was just background noise. It wasn’t until it came back on the radio that I realized the words. Why is dying young something that should be celebrated? And the video was a real eye opener, I’ve read and researched the illuminati and occult symbols but I have never seen a video that showed such blatant imagery, you’d be a fool not to catch on. This video gave me chills and not in a good way. I’m actually afraid for her soul. I can only hope and pray she wakes up before it’s too late.
Well said.
I’m not going to reply to many of the things you said because I do not agree with them, I have nothing to say to some, I agree with some of the things you said.
for an example “if I eat cake? evil” ridiculous to me:/ we both have our understanding of evil.
I know where you are coming from about the Alice Cooper thing, you are trying to say I shouldn’t judge him without meeting him.
You can pray, worship and talk about God with him, but can you judge him by his fruit?
i can see a pastor on the street, talk, worship and talk about Jesus with him. But that was only once, who knows after our meeting, he’s just a crook.
Wolves in sheep skin.
All I know is if I see anyone associating with ‘evil’ works, I wouldn’t bother thinking of them, which goes to Alice Cooper.
Funny how he promotes his dark side work and doesn’t promote God, and you my brother is telling me he’s a man who walks with God in Spirit and in Truth:/
I wasn’t looking to school you in Born Again.
to me, fruits or traits of a Born Again are explained in Ephesians and Galatians.
Yes you are right that bearing someone’s fruit is not by appearance as God doesn’t look at appearance but the Heart.
And you said the fruit of a person is not based on the kind of music they promote.
Again this is why I talked about the Life of Brain and Passion of the Christ.
I listen to Gospel radio non stop that plays Christian music, and what music is Alice Cooper promoting? Secular music or Christian music?
which one bears good fruit?
because it is obvious.
Listening to Alice Cooper is no different to me listening to Illuminate children rapping about money, women, their life and hate.
Bearing fruit means many things and Good fruit is based on Jesus acknowledgement or love.
Even though a Christian makes a Heavy Metal music, it doesn’t matter as the lyrics are what matters.
if Alice Cooper produces a Christian music in form of Heavy Metal, then that’s fine.
Fair enough, Xino. Differences within the Body are actually good things- “Iron sharpens iron.”
Since the cake example was ridiculous to you, I’ll clarify a little better.
Evil is not some otherworldly, unclassifiable attribute. Evil literally is rebellion. The western world, from the time of the ancient Greeks all the way to the present, have persistently and vehemently denounced that rebellion is wrong, and thus the word now translated as “evil” took on some ethereal quasi-meaning. However, Lucifer’s sin was pride, and his pride led him to do what? Rebel. He remains in direct rebellion against God, and is thus “evil.”
So, my examples are meant to show the literal word in action: Anything which is in conflict with the law of man (when that law does not violate God’s), as well as in conflict with the law of God- This is what evil actually is.
I hope that helps clarify a little better, because rebellion is at the root of every action, word and thought we consider to be evil. I dare say- No, I challenge anyone willing to test me on this- That you will find no evil action, word or thought wherein rebellion of some degree is not present.
Now, when I started this entire line of discussion, I was not expecting it to turn into as big a thing as it did. My original query had no ulterior motives- I simply wanted to know if BaE was aware of Cooper’s conversion and subsequent dedication to Christ.
However, since it has become something of an issue, and since you brought up Gospel Radio, Gospel Music, and lyrical content, I think I’d like to share a few of Cooper’s with you. I hope you don’t mind.
From his first album put out as a Christian, the song Nothing’s Free details the fact that everything the Devil ever tries to sell you is a lie. It closes out with a sobering reminder:
That same album contained the song It’s Me. As with every album Cooper has ever put out, this album tells a single story, with each song showing only a single part of it. In this one, Christ is speaking to one of the protagonists, and calling her. Here is the way THIS song ends:
Finally, the last song is Cooper’s own statement to Satan and the world as a whole: It is titled Cleansed By Fire. To keep this post short, I’m going to link you to a lyrics video. The song is excellent, and the lyrics are better than some of today’s Christian music content.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mnb3mzP0Z0Y
From this point forward, every album he’s put out has been very Christ centered, but in a way that presents the truth to people who would refuse it any other way. He shows them the darkness, and the utter hopelessness it offers; he illustrates it in theatrics, and through the character of “Alice Cooper,” the manic psychopath he created for this very purpose- Then, without fail, shows the hope found only in God, and shows that evil always meets an end at the Hand of Justice.
So yes, he does indeed present the truth in Heavy Metal form, though it is far from “Heavy Metal” by today’s standards. Moreover, when meeting with fans, there are more than one testimony coming from his shows that begins with “….So then he asked me if I wanted to pray, and…”
God bless you, brother. I’ll be checking out your own blogs shortly.
ok i will be looking into the Evil term another time since you have more and different insight to it.
Alice Cooper recent music, what forms are they in? secular or christian music.
i will look at another article BeginningandEnd publishes and see another illuminate/devil promoting music they dissect. I will look at the comment and watch out for your comment if you think BeginningandEnd is making mistake with another misunderstanding dissection.
because I do not want to dislike, judge, hate people just because others are saying “this person is bad, promotes evil, devil”.
Just as you said, it is good to meet someone in person before making judgement.
and your blog doesn’t work
Wow! Thanks for point that out, Xino! *shocked face* I didn’t realize it’s been messed up all this time! Should be good now.
As far as BaE goes with his expose of Illuminati artists, I just want to say this again: I don’t think he is often mistaken. I don’t believe he’s mistaken when it comes to Ke$ha, and I don’t think he’s been mistaken in this matter with any other article that I’ve read. I want to be clear that I’ve not said, anywhere here, that I think he’s mistaken or misunderstood something and written an article out of that misunderstanding.
I did say that I wanted to know if he knew that Cooper was a Christian. His response was that he was aware of the claim, but he’d done no research into it. He thought it was odd (to say the least) for a Christian to collaborate with an unbeliever, especially one of Ke$ha’s caliber.
While I can understand his concern (and yours for that matter) in this instance, I stand by the man’s testimony and his position as a Christian brother. As I mentioned to Kwame, I’ve also done a collaboration with a non believer. Why? For several reasons, one being that I believe in the relational nature of true evangelism, and the other is because his fans are like ravenous wolves- They eat up and digest everything he’s a part of. That means that they heard, dissected, and chewed and mulled over a song with an absolutely uncompromising Gospel message. Moreover, these are people that I would not have been able to reach otherwise, and it was undoubtedly God who orchestrated the project to begin with. Should I tell God next time that I can’t work with an unbeliever? (I know you’re not saying anything of the sort- It’s more of an ironic/humorous statement 😉 )
Anyhow- God bless you, my brother. Continue to dig into the word. I love what you’ve got going on over there on Journey To Go To Heaven.
“While I can understand his concern (and yours for that matter) in this instance, I stand by the man’s testimony and his position as a Christian brother.”
The Epistle of James, for example, tells that one’s righteousness can be seen from his actions, not his from words. It doesn’t talk about earning a ticket to heaven by works, but some of the outwards signs that follow those whose hearts have truly been renewed.
Those who are truly righteous by the grace of God in Christ are not saved by the good works but are saved FOR the good works.
“For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.”
James 2:26.
It could also be said this way in my understanding(ignore this if you see the following against the teachings of the Bible):
“For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without The Holy Spirit(which enables us to do good works in Christ) is dead.”
I’m not saying that he is absolutely not a christian, I hope he is, but at some point the faith should be seen in one’s actions, not just in words.
I do remember how mad Alice Cooper got when Marilyn Manson was compared to him. It was evident that he did not approve. I also agree that Kesha was not someone to be involved with, I don’t want to see another of her videos again so I don’t want to see what she did before Alice was with her. In his defence maybe he was trying to help her and evangelize. Save her from a wasted life, like he talks about in the video above. After that latest video what would Alice say now about Kesha? That would really tell you where he stands. She is just as serious about this as Manson, and Alice didn’t like how Manson was so serious about the occult. Alice was really offended, I believe this was before he said that he believed.
I remember listening to Alice Coopers Killer Album when it came out, my Dad had it, I was 7 years old. It was red and had a big snake on it so it was played in my fathers absence. It is actually considered Glam Rock at least that is what the rock class at the State University taught (my wife took a history of rock class a few years ago).
I don’t want to judge Alice, I don’t want to say give my money back, or give all the money back to charity from the profiting off the occult and death themes of his albums (I can say that is what it appears he did to some extent, but the musical quality is high IMHO). I dont even know if I would give it up in his place. I busted and threw away his cd along with all the rest. I can see how someone who didn’t really listen would think he was a death metal king. I will admit that I love the music, but I deny it for what it does to my consience. If I were to get rock music again Alice Coopers old stuff would leave the store with me that day.
I’m still not saying that I think Alice should stop if his conscience is clear. But mine wasn’t so I got rid of all of it. Not so much to be holy but to keep evil away. I didn’t want to take any chances. I also really enjoy getting drunk and listening to any music that suites my fancy so I guess it doesn’t bear good fruit for me even if it isn’t satanic. Listening to music doesn’t make me want a drink but drinking makes me want music. Childish things to be put behind me, and it took me a long time to get it.
Now this video of Kesha’s is so bad I couldn’t have justified it (since first believing 28 years ago) even if I liked the music. It scared my daughter so bad that it made her think something was watching her in her room when no one was there. The evil that I was trying to keep away when I got rid of my music was there. I could feel it myself. It felt like someone was standing behind me and that they were going to hit me at any time, slap me on the side of the head. What does this do to people without Jesus, if it can do this to a girl and her family that believe. I know that it is only Jesus that stops it.
Alice Coopers music was really tame compared to this. But the imagery in his could have led to this being more acceptable now. It was all a show for him but this is not a show anymore. Even if the illuminati are not real the video by Kesha is. Hopefully she scares her audience away.
well for Kesha we can say she just plain mess up. Now i was reading some other post about how u guys r saying this Alice Cooper guy is a born-again or follows Jesus what not. However, i don’t c how u can in your mind say this guy follows Jesus, at least the Jesus i know, or even is a born again christian. some r saying that they know him and he seem like a good christian or good person, oh brother lets see i’ve seen some of those too, i mean they behave nice talk nice, yeh well however those people were not believers. Another thing Jesus well said that u would know a Christian by his fruit, i don’t at least in my mind c how this guy looks like a christian, i went and check his wiki, then saw other pictures of him to me that did not look anything like a christian. unless u telling me that God the Father and Jesus wears black, skulls paints his face, and so on, then ok. But from what i know God wears The most divine White cloths that we probably can imagine and he lives in Light, so yeh im judging here, as a teen im judging because if i wasn’t a christian i don’t c the difference of this guy with other rock, heavy metal bands, punk or w/e dark gothic style out there. also isn’t black usually related to darkness or evil? if i’m wrong then u can correct me.
Black is a color, my friend. Nothing more. White is also a color, and I could relate account after account of Christian bikers, lost on the road, that were led back to where they needed to be by an angel in black leather on a Harley. Black is nothing more than a color.
Colors do, on the other hand, illustrate certain principles. Black most often represents evil because of its associations: “Black as night,” “black as sin,” ‘black is evil.’ White, on the other hand, often illustrates holiness because of its associations: “White as snow,” “purest white,” ‘white is holy.’ Word association is a powerful thing.
This is a false dichotomy, however. Read the accounts of experiences with Satan, and those of meetings with Christ. How often is Christ dressed like a run-of-the-mill person, while Satan appears in white and glowing? In my own personal experience, I’ve seen Christ more than once, and only once did He appear in white. Lucifer, on the other hand, always appears so.
While you have excellent reasons for not listening to the music, (e.g. Your personal spiritual well being), you make the common mistake of believing that because you are under that conviction, everyone else is also. That is simply not the case now, nor will it ever be.
Check this out for more- I promise, there’s no Alice Cooper or Ke$ha on it! Only yours truly, talking about this very subject.
And what I’ve been saying, Jonesy, is that is IS seen in his actions… At least by those willing to see.
“Having ears, they do not hear; having eyes, they do not see…”
Hi @ RET, thanks for sharing your desire to reach out to those who would not think of going to any church, and for defending the Cooper family. Everyone has posted reasons & scripture to defend views. We have all liberty in Yeshua, and here is a translation that I love, about how some of us formerly walked in vanity, or without faith/trust in such a great salvation: “But this I say and bear witness in YHVH, that from now on you should not walk as the rest of the goyim, who walk in the vanity of their mind. And they are dark in their understanding and estranged from the life of Eloah, because there is no knowledge in them, and because of the blindness of their heart. They have cut off their hope and they have surrendered their nefeshot to perversion and to the work of all uncleanness in their greediness. (Here comes the part I LOVE!) But you did not this learn the Messiah, if truly you have heard Him, and by Him you have learned, as the truth is in Yeshua.” Ephesians 4:17-21. If Alice Cooper has faith in Christ, there is no issue with how he makes $$$. If he was tempted by greed to ignore his faith and promote satanic ANYTHING, he needs a serious rebuke from his church. Or, he has never received the truth, “…if truly you have heard Him, and by Him you have learned…”
My salvation began in 2008, so am still a newbie. But the nightclubs, rock concerts, and entertaining demons didn’t stop right away. I didn’t find a church for a few years, but under loving discipline of the LORD my lifestyle changed dramatically within a few months. Scripture, prayer, and learning of His love & sacrifice drew me to love Him back with all there is. I am nothing without Him, and He is my everything. He would never tolerate me cozying up to old demonic celebrations, though I still get invites. I have suffered the rejection of former friends.
They have a better chance to see Him if my message is honest. Maybe I am not enjoying life as I once had, and they don’t see my trust in Scripture as purely joyous, but what I now see that they don’t is that HaSatan is no joke. The devil and demons are real and not to be messed with, but in the Name of Yeshua, those powers must flee.
At the least, Cooper is a black-eye on our testimony of truth.
Hi, Holly.
Wow, the comments regarding my comment on Alice Cooper keep coming! lol I’ve said it before, but I really wasn’t attempting to take anything away from BaE’s article; or derail it, for that matter.
First, I’d like to welcome you to the Family!! 🙂
Second, let me say that I love what you have put here: Very on point right up until the end. I’m saying that with respect, however, because I think I may simply be missing a few dots, or something.
How did you arrive at the conclusion that “Cooper is a black-eye on our testimony of truth?”
I’m not sure if you’ve opted to watch this posting for replies, so I’ll wait to see a response before I go into a more lengthy reply.
God bless!!
Hi Rets, thanks for the feedback. Sorry to try and catch up so late! And a thought you posted over a month ago, ” Much like certain works by C.S. Lewis, Paul Bunyan and other such Bible-believing, Christ centered, classic writers, his work since becoming a Christian has been allegorical. Frankly, from what you’ve stated here, he couldn’t have picked a better person to play the part of the devil…” speaks to my concern about Alice Cooper teaming up with a known person who celebrates evil symbols.
In matters of dress and appearance, or of judging the intent of Alice Cooper I haven’t the right. As to the bearing witness to those in darkness, I love the simplicity of His Word: “…and walk in love as the Messiah also loved us, and delivered His nefesh on our behalf, an offering and a sacrifice to Eloah for a sweet smell. But sexual immorality and all uncleanness and covetousness also, indeed, should not be named among you, as these are not becoming to set-apart-ones; and neither obscenities, nor words of foolishness nor of reproach nor of nonsense, which are not necessary, but instead of these, thanksgiving.But this you should know, every man who is sexually immoral or unclean or covetous, who is a servant of idols, has no inheritance in the Kingdom of the Messiah and of Eloah, lest anyone should deceive you with empty words. For because of these the wrath of Eloah will come upon the sons of rebellion. Therefore, do not become partners with them, for you WERE PREVIOUSLY DARKNESS, but now you are light in our Adon. Therefore so walk as sons of light, for the fruit of the light is in all goodness and righteousness and truth. And determine what is pleasing before our Adon. And do not fellowship with the works of darkne, in which there is no fruit, but reprove them, for that which they do in secret is abominable even to speak.” Ephesians 5:2-12
Those words were painful to me for a few years, because my life was in a horribly evil place. If my faith had begun out of fear of hell, I would have given up a hopeless failure. My Creator came to offer me salvation all wrapped up in love. Deep digging to recreate me into His purpose has hurt, has scared the crap out of me at times, and yet His tender mercies are new every morning. His message is a faithful I love you, and He loves us all.
I see church folks who are clueless about some evils. Out of fear they may preach judgement. But aren’t you defending a similar ‘allegorical’ approach? If folks in deep sin can get the Gospel, the salt and light, they need clear connection of His loving obedience that saved a dying world.
There is a stuffiness in lots of church groups. To counter that we seek maturity, not an ‘in your face’ liberty that portrays you can look, say, act any way your heart sees as worthwhile.
Make any sense?
Oops, I just read something I wrote that is clear as mud. It’s about preaching judgement based on fear, and what I meant to illustrate is how you termed Coopers theme as illustrative of real hell, real evil, in an allegorical message. It seems as useless to me as church snobs who preach hell to certain folks. Is there an instance in Scripture where fear is promoted as an evangelists outreach? Jonah comes to mind, except there is a reverential means of sending that unique message. Fear based allegories may not reach those deep into rebellion, and it may push them further away.
It does make sense, Holly, but I have concerns with what you’re presenting.
There is a great deal of stuffiness within the church, but it comes from a rigid, letter-of-the-law approach; not from a focus on liberty. I have yet to meet a Christian, led by the Spirit of God, that has an issue with that stuffy state of being. I have yet to find someone operating within the TRUE liberty of grace that does whatever their “heart sees as worthwhile.”
And I will walk at liberty, For I seek Your precepts. ~Psalm 119:45
Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. ~2 Corinthians 3:17
Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. ~Galatians 5:1
….as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God. ~1 Peter 2:16
Liberty is the state of existing outside of bondage; in this case, bondage to the Law, which is the Law of Moses. However, there are other bondages out there, such as drinking to excess, fornication, lewd behavior, etc. Our liberty is not to be used as a safety net, or as Peter termed it, “a cloak for vice,” If it becomes so, then the Spirit of the Lord lifts, and liberty, true liberty, is no longer present.
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I’ve never had a love of “fire and brimstone” preaching. With that said, there is a time and place for everything, even this sort of evangelism. You say folks need to see the love that saved a dying world; I agree. How do you portray that to people who do not believe they are dying?
You asked in your follow-up post about fear being used as an evangelistic tool. The fact is that Christ spoke more about hell, death, and the consequences of sin than He did about Heaven or love. Why is that, do you think?
Everyone tends to come up with a different answer, but what I’ve come to realize is that the revelation of a saving love does nothing for people who are not aware they are in danger. One of the reasons for that famous sermon “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God” was to wake the people to the fact that they WERE in danger of hell. Until that understanding sets in, the concept of Salvation is utter foolishness, according to Paul- Something to be ignored.
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. ~1 Corinthians 1:18
The problem is that far too many within the church are doing the same thing in reverse: Behaving as though they have/had no sin, and thus, no reason to fear the consequences of that sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. ~1 John 1:8
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To this day, allegory remains one of the Christian artist’s greatest tools in illustrating the NEED for a Savior. Fear is not as much a part of allegory in this instance as is the simple illustration of what evil really is; the reality of hell; and where the lifestyle leads without intervention. If there is fear felt from this, it is righteous fear- As Christ Himself stated:
Do not be afraid of them who kill the body. They are not able to kill the soul. But fear Him Who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. ~Matthew 10:28
And again:
Dear friends, don’t be afraid of those who want to kill your body; they cannot do any more to you after that. But I’ll tell you whom to fear. Fear God, who has the power to kill you and then throw you into hell. Yes, he’s the one to fear. ~Luke 12:4-5
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The word “evil” is an interesting one, and if you ever get the chance to do a word study, I highly suggest it. Word studies have helped me alot in my understanding as a Believer, and to be honest, I only rededicated my life a little over nine years ago. Prior to that, I was a Lucifarian.
The word “evil” in Greek has three main forms: Kakos, which speaks to intrinsic depravity; Poneros, which is used to describe the effects of malice in or on an individual or individuals; and Sapros, which is used to describe literal or moral rottenness. All of these have their roots in the Greek words for corruption, and these in turn have their roots in the Greek word for rebellion.
However, there is one seldom used Greek form which is Phaulos, and this is what is known as a primary word, meaning it has no root. It does have one other word that is synonymous with it in definition: That word is Apeithes, the word for “Rebellious.” Incidentally, this word comes from the Hebrew language.
Now, the most primitive Hebrew root word for evil; that is, the word from which every other Hebrew word for evil comes from in some manner; is שׁוּב. This means “to turn back from” — Rebellion.
I bring this up because you are not the first person here, as I’m sure you’ve seen, that has brought up the word “evil” in your response. Each time it’s been used, it seems to be a nearly ethereal word which no one seems to understand, but everyone “knows” what it means. The truth is, evil is rebellion against God- It is that simple. Anything done out of rebellion against God is, by extension, evil.
So, is rock and roll music evil? Some is, without a doubt. Some is not. Are there certain clothes out there that are evil? Perhaps, if they violate the law of God. Most, however unseemly, are not. Is alcohol evil? Not at all. Is drunkenness? Yes.
What am I saying here, you may ask. Simply this: We need to be aware and fully cognizant of that which the Lord commands. Everything else is unimportant in the long run.
Remember that in 1 Corinthians 11:14, Paul states that it’s a shame for men to have long hair; yet a short while later, he says “But if there is any contention among you, against such we have no laws, neither the churches of God.” (v16) Listen to the way Edgar Goodspeed, a theologian and New Testament Greek scholar, worded this passage in his translation:
In other words, “move on to what’s important.” They had no other custom; that did not mean that it was a law, or a regulation- It was a custom only. As such, if someone was going to be contentious about keeping their long hair, then it was advised that they (church authority) let it go.
Don’t take this to mean, however, that just because there is not a “cover-all” law within the Bible that it is all right to do any of these things. I am not generalizing to that degree, and this is why…
Holly, if the Lord convicted you of listening to rock’n’roll- Any form, Christian or not- Then it would be a sin for you to violate that conviction for as long as it remains in your life. If the Lord convicted me of commenting on internet forums and blogs, it would be a sin for me to violate that conviction for as long as it remained in MY life. However, just because we have those personal convictions, does not mean that you are not allowed to comment, and I am not allowed to listen to rock’n’roll. These are called personal convictions for a reason, and I like to refer to the breaking of them as “personalized sins.”
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When it all comes down to brass tacks, there is not a single person here who can say with authority that Vinnie, (Alice Cooper’s real name), is living in sin. It could also be argued that the same could be said for his salvation, except for one simple fact: He bears fruit which is unseen in those without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
You see, what you stated here:
That is 100% correct. There is no issue- So why are people making one? Perhaps it’s because he works on occasion with secular artists, considering you and others have said as much. Your statement was this:
However, the song does not promote anything satanic. Promotion and discussion are two different things, as are promotion and reproof. The song in question here is both reproving and instructive- By showing the results of a contract with the devil, the subsequent problems, and the dealing with those problems in one’s own strength, Vinnie is reproving those who are actually living like this. He is also instructing people not to do so in the first place.
Why did he choose to work with Ke$ha of all people? I presume it was for much the same reason that I worked on several projects with K.C. Sn*w. Any opportunity to inject the message of the saving grace of God is an opportunity worth taking, no matter how badly the comfortably sleepy members of the conservative Church are upset by the commotion.
I’ll close this book with a quote that I live by. It comes from C.T. Studd, who you can read about here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C.T._Studd
He said:
Some want to live within the sound of church or chapel bell; I want to run a rescue shop within a yard of hell!
That is what the Church as a whole is called to do… And Vinnie, Brian “Head” Welch, myself, and others, are doing exactly that. My question is simply this- Where are the rest?
P.S. The rejection of friends can be extremely hurtful; I understand this intimately, as my rededication not only cost me friends, but also cost me my fiancée.
I’d like to encourage you, though, with the understanding that, apart from continued prayer for these people, their rejection was Divine Favor disguised as hurtful actions. You see, what I discovered was that, had my ex stayed, I would have been the man in Proverbs, living with a contentious wife; a continually dripping faucet.
Rejection certainly hurts, but I count it gain, as did Paul, for the sake of the Gospel. I encourage you to do the same- Dig in to the Word of God; don’t ever take someone else’s word for it- Read for yourself. Spend time in prayer and fasting. Immerse yourself in praise and worship. Fall in love with our Savior every day; and I think this last part is the greatest key of all.
I’ve not found my helpmate yet, and I’m already feeling years beyond my age of 31. Nevertheless, Yeshua Ha’Meshiach is not only my Savior, but He is also my Lord, my Friend, my Brother, and my Provider- Meeting my every need. When the time comes, He will provide my wife; and in the meantime, I pray daily for changes within my own life to be made in preparation for her. In spite of my apparent lack, I continue to fall more and more in love with my God, because more than anything in this world, YHWH is all that I need.
Be encouraged, my dear sister.
Lord, I firmly believe that You have already surrounded Holly with godly friends and family; yet right now, I ask most humbly for a strengthening of the bond between she and they, and between she and You. I thank You for Your grace and Your mercy; Your unmerited favor, Abba, that You grant us. I thank You for providing her needs; for watching over her well-being; for guarding her mind; and for leading her in the paths of righteousness, not for her own fame, but for YOUR Name’s sake.
Grant her strength in her times of weakness; rest in times of weariness; peace in times of chaos; and assurance in times of opposition. Continue to draw her ever closer to You, and grant her a deeper and truer knowledge and understanding of You. Rule and reign and have Your way in her life…
I ask this in the Name and by the Blood, and the power thereof, of Yeshua Ha’Meshiach- Amen.
@RET, your prayer and personal story of salvation is dear to me, thank you so much. I am humbled to agree about brother-in Yeshua, Vinnie. I am getting guidance that no judgement of mine on another is mature enough to stand. Guess I am learning that deeper and unseen power works in mysterious ways. Ruach HaKodesh guides where He will, and it’s tough to discern His ways, but smart to trust He guides others in ways I can’t identify should I view them through a mask of my own flesh. Music of all sorts appeals to me, yet I still fail to grasp the message of Yeshua in this K$sha dialog. I guess if she was good at playing a role to demonstrate how true that hell is the where evil winds up, did she understand her role? If others found out that hell is real because she portrayed consequences so well, why did she seem to find it gratifying? I should have originally posted my question that puzzles me. Simply, if she understood the effort was to display the Gospel? Again, thank you for the word study and prayers. I hope to encourage your faith as well. As the Apostle Paul led by example, to become all things to all men, that he may win some to redemption, we need to encourage laborers. There is a worthwhile judging from those of the church body deemed mature, so I recognize my overstepping my boundaries.
In for sin to exist, a god must exist. I’ve encountered no viable proof of a god’s existence, so I lead my heathen life of love and compassion for all, not just people who share my beliefs. For a religion that claims to be based on Love, Christianity seems to deviate into sinful contradiction far too often. Pedophiles in the clergy, people who are undoubtedly closer to this theoretical God than you. The “holier than thou” attitude. Hatred for any non-Christian (you might claim that they’re misguided, but you hate us heathens.), Look at the Crusades, a series of wars by Christians to take over lands sacred to more than one group (The Muslims and the Jews both hold that Jerusalem is a holy land). Look at Qu’ran burnings, a staple in anti-Islamic hate rallies, whereas Bible burnings by Muslims are conducted by only extremists and radicals (It is against Shariah law to destroy any sort of scripture, Islamic or not. but to a Christian, the only book above burning is a Bible. I own one and will not destroy it out of respect for your beliefs, not for the words within.) I am an atheist, but I assure that I lead a more morally respectable ethos than that you bigots follow, and I do good out of the goodness of my own heart, not out of fear of divine retribution or out of desire for eternal salvation. not out of pride, the belief that my morals are above those of others (except yours, because I love people). You people need to stop assaulting the behavior of others, when your own is morally repugnant. Some Christians are honestly good people, who are non-judgmental and respect the beliefs of others. you just get off on condemning others for doing the things you wish your tyrant of a god would allow you to do. I hath spoken, my will be done! Go about your lives of hating women, homosexuals, non-Christians, Pro-Choice people (who usually abort as an act of compassion, preventing another person entering a life of suffering. and they send babies to JESUS!), and people who enjoy the free will that your god supposedly gave to us. isn’t it an act against god to belittle free will? guess you’re all going to hell, too. see you there.
Yishai, I’ll be thinking about what you’ve said here. I for one believe that God can use anyone, even those who don’t believe He exists, and some of the things you’ve said have pricked my conscience, so I will definitely be praying about it.
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I would like to correct a few misunderstandings you’ve shown here, if I may. Nothing personal against you at all.
First, you’ll find that only the Catholic church (and spin-offs) teach that priests are “closer” to God than “normal” people. The majority of peodophiliac priests are symptoms of a much greater problem: The ban on marriage for laity. As a result, these men (and women) are burning with passion and have no outlet. I am not excusing them; what they have done is reprehensible. I am, however, showing the root of the problem.
Ironically, neither the “higher than thou” station of priests, nor the ban on marriage, is supported by the Bible.
Secondly, Muslims do burn Bibles. They actually refer to Christians and Jews as “People of the Book,” and look down upon them for upholding the Scripture of the Bible over the Koran. (Or Qu’ran, if you’d prefer.) Al Jezeera is full of videos of this happening.
This is not to say that I agree with burning the Koran. I don’t support too many burnings, in fact, and never those put on to make a public spectacle.
The type of burning I do support, as an example, was the kind a friend did: He had been trying very hard to quit drinking, but had a ton of beer and liquor posters and memorabilia around his house. I told him he’d be better off selling this stuff, and using the money; he felt that he wanted to make a clean break, however. So, one night in early fall, with about four or five of his closest friends for support, he burned it all. I am quite all right with that, because the purpose was not to spark problems, but to symbolize the end of something he was struggling with. (Incidentally, he’s been dry for over six years now.)
Another thing I wanted to mention is that, while you did include a disclaimer at the end, far fewer Christians than you suggest actually hate heathens. As I’ve mentioned, prior to returning to God, I was a Lucifarian. You really cannot get more “heathen” than that. Yet of all the Christians I knew during this time, only two ever behaved in a spiteful manner… And for the record, I knew and interacted with hundreds. Since then, I have known the kind of Christians you speak of; but I have known far more who would invite you to coffee to get to know you bettter.
As for hating women, homosexuals, non-Christians, and pro-choice people… Do you honestly believe that every Christian is a member of Westboro Baptist?!
For me, personally- I am pro-choice. I believe that abortion is wrong, and that it is the bane of human existence, perhaps greater than war itself; however, God did give us free will. My take on it, however, is that far too many women are lied to and presented with a farce of a choice. Something to the effect of: “You can live free and happy and beautiful, or you can be the ugly, barefoot and pregnant housewife, chained to your kids.” That has never been said but once, to my knowledge, but it has been suggested often.
As for the part about the Christian church deviating- You are correct. This is something that I have spoken of a great deal, and have even preached on.
You bring up the Crusades, and while you put an uneven weight of responsibility upon Christians, you are basically right in that the Christian was far off course, (let’s call it what it is: Sin), in waging war under the banner of “Jesus Christ.”
You stated that for sin to exist, God would have to exist; while I know that He does, unfortunately, my experiences would not sway your opinion. So, rather than attempt to convince you, I’ll simply pray for you, and thank you for what you’ve said. As I stated in the beginning, some of what you’ve said here hit home with me, so I’ll be examining myself closely to see what needs to change.
Oh, yes… One last thing. I will say that your post is heavily ironic. And that’s all I’ve got left to say.
Happy New Year to you!
The occult symbolism present in these videos reminds me of my earliest years at the temple mount, among the High Priests and Priestesses of the Ancient Religion. The pentalce, a five pointed star within a circle is a powerful symbol that decorated the alter at the temple where I was raised, and graced the forehead of my sisters when they began their initiation into the temple as acolytes of Nerthus. While many New Age and Neopagan mystics would have you believe that Nerthus is a benign goddess of fertility let me tell you that this is far from the truth. Nerthus is an ancient evil, one that extends back to the beginning of the world. Her first name was Lilith, the demoness who is sparingly mentioned in some Biblical Apocrypha as the first wife of Adam. She is truly the bride of Lucifer and has appeared in many forms to seduce men and women into evil and sin. Among the Hindus she is called Parvati, the bride of their destroyer god Shiva. The Mormon’s even honor her with but a mention as the so called “Heavenly Mother”. Nerthus is a seductive spirit who constantly tempts men and women into sin using the vice of lust. However, this is not her most terrible form. She is known also as the Morrigan, the Phantom Queen, who is symbolized by the raven. She was most popular in celtic mythologies, but remains popular as a diety unto which the priestesses call for assitance in their magicks. Both of my sisters served the Nerthus/Lilith/Morrigan and most likely continue to serve her in hidden places. Although many of you have spoken how some of the illuminati members like Rihanna and Beyonce may be innocent or misled, the pictures from Kesha’s “spirit journey” disturbed me greatly. Only once during my time as a child did I see a girl go through the final rituals to become a temple priestess, called a Channeling. The acolyte calls the spirit of Nerthus into herself to purge any remaining “weakness” from her body, making her a tool of evil and lust. Far fewer girls survive the Channeling than those who don’t, and when they do, they are presented before the community immediatley afterwards and annointed by the High Priest and Priestess. Her costume in this picture looks very similiar to the one I saw as a child which makes me wonder, perhaps Kesha is temple trained? If so, she poses a much greater threat to the youth of today than any meddler like Rihanna or Beyonce.
@Yishia, I just read your comments and am seeing much of your views as I what I would have said a few years ago! I love that. Now, instead of looking at Christianity as a sham, I was called by Christ. His love to me made my heart rejoice and love Him in return. It came as a complete surprise. In scripture one man who had been blind said, “I was blind, but now I see!” Imagine his surprise and joy! My heart came back to life. It took a few years before going to church became part of my life, and like a big family, that has its ups & downs. But, He is why I go, and is alone perfectly loving. So thanks for your post, and if you hate hypocrites, talk with Him. He will explain everything!
The imagery in Kesha’s music video is all about generating publicity. And guess what? You’re helping her spread her stupid songs and generate fame and fortune. Well done.
A similar kind of stupidity made Dan Brown a multi-millionaire even though the guy can’t write to save himself.
I have to agree with your assessment of Mr. Brown’s work, and overall, I think you may have nailed a portion of Ke$ha’s motivation- Indeed, her main motivation is, I believe, money and power.
It is because of this second item, however, that I do not think it is merely simple imagery at all. She desires power, and I cannot help but believe it highly probable that she would seek anywhere and everywhere to obtain it.
“Artists” like Kesha don’t really have sources of power apart from what they’re able to produce and, I guess, the money that follows. They rely on being able to distribute the things they make, and that means getting as much publicity as possible. It doesn’t matter if that publicity is positive or negative, and by highlighting them you may actually be helping further their agendas.
I doubt Kesha is actually behind all the symbology in her videos, and even if she is – so what? Kesha’s PR team must absolutely love the controversy they’ve managed to stir up, all those uppity Christians expressing their moral outrage. That’s exactly what they wanted! More exposure means more cash in the bank. However, symbols themselves have no power whatsoever except for that which human beings assign them. You can draw a big pentagram in pig’s blood in your backyard and dance around it naked all you want while you imagine that you’re bringing Satan to life or that you’re giving God the finger, or whatever. You’re actually doing nothing apart from wasting your time, because that’s not how symbols work.
I think you afford Kesha more power than she’s due. I get that you see her as an enemy of God, and that she’s leading people astray, and in that you’re probably right. However, apart from providing some sort of validation to tween girls who were going to go through their drunken skank phase sooner or later anyway, she doesn’t have much to offer. OK, she’s got some catchy beats popular in clubs right now, but in 10 years she’s going to be mostly forgotten. Remember when the Rolling Stones were the Devil incarnate? Now they’re irrelevant and embarrassing.
Personally, I never cared for the Tumbling Gallstones, and whenever a man is bouncing around on stage so badly he needs sports bra support, there’s a problem. Strict conservative churches thought they were “the devil incarnate” as you phrase it because they had an issue with the music in general. That is not what is going on here; rather, there is an issue with the symbolism combined with her own statements that amount to a much more nefarious intent than just stacking greenbacks.
With that said, I believe you missed what I was getting at in regards to what sort of power she was/is looking for. I highly doubt she became an “artist” just so that she could pursue power; rather, it was her pursuit of power that led her to dabble in things I know to be real, and then move into music.
I need to correct you on this. Muslims are not allowed to burn Bibles, and Al Jazeera is not full of videos of this happening. This would suggest that they hate Jesus and Christians, and this is not the case. Whoever you saw doing that, it isn’t Muslims.
Muslims believe in those parts of the Bible that are confirmed by the Qur’an. Muslims believe in the immaculate conception, for example, simply because the Qur’an states that it happened.
What Muslims reject utterly is the belief in the divinity of Jesus – Jesus was one of many prophets sent to remind people that there is only one God. God is unique, eternal and absolute, and such a being has no reason to come down to earth in human form – the mere suggestion is blasphemous. That is the main reason why Muslims regard Christians as having been led astray. And why not? Pure monotheism needs no confusing trinity to try to get your head around, no intermediary priests, no saints and no statues or idols.
Say what you like, but Teacher? Educate thyself.
I have seen it happen with my own eyes, and yes, Al Jezeera is full of videos where this is taking place. I will go with you to this extent: They may be less than strict Muslims, and in that regard, don’t see a problem with what they’re doing. Or, they may be following a straying Imam- Regardless of the reason, it does happen.
Secondly, they call Jesus the “perfect prophet.” Mohammed is the “last prophet.” Christ claimed Divinity. Mohammed said Jesus was not Divine. If Jesus were indeed perfect, then there could be no falsehood in his mouth, and He claimed to be God. If Mohammed was only the last prophet, and not perfect, then he could be mistaken, and he could indeed lie. So, here’s a question to wrap your head around:
If Jesus was the perfect prophet, and Mohammed only the “last” prophet, which one was correct?
I’ll say it again: Muslims who burn Bibles can’t call themselves Muslims. [Censored for racist remarks] I wouldn’t be the first person to tell you that much of the mainstream media is a lie.
Your question is very easy to wrap my head around: Muslims don’t regard Jesus as the ‘perfect prophet’ at all. Where did you get this idea from? It is the Seal of the Prophets, Mohammed, who is regarded as the perfect person.
Jesus did not claim divinity. It was the Council of Nicaea that finally decided on this issue in the 4th century, quite a long time after Jesus. That is to say, it was humans with a political agenda, since those who opposed this decision were declared heretics and later slaughtered (ie. Arians). Interestingly, as soon as Mohammed died, certain people tried immediately to confer divinity on him too, but the first Caliph, Abu Bakr, brought that idea to a swift halt with a single impassioned speech.
There’s a lot of stuff in Chrisitianity that is pure human innovation, especially since a lot of Christian traditions are actually pagan in origin (what, you thought Jesus was the only healer and teacher with 12 disciples, celebrating mass with bread and wine who was crucified and rose back from the dead after 3 days? Not by a long shot). You can thank the Roman emperors for most of that. These days, humans still decide on certain issues (e.g. female clergy, toleration of homosexuality) and even what is canon and what isn’t. Apocrypha, anyone? Where’s God in any of that if not conveniently pushed aside? You yourself take liberties on issues such as abortion without so much a single Biblical reference… certain things are actually NOT yours to decide if you want to call yourself a Christian.
I have a few questions of my own for you. Jesus certainly didn’t wear a cross or call himself a Christian, so why do Christians? And why don’t Christians “pray on their faces” (ie. like Muslims) as the Bible COMMANDS them to? Why do they persist in praying to the dead (e.g. Mary, the saints) when it is actually the dead who need the prayers of the living?
You raise several interesting points, Teach, and ones that I personally love to address and discuss. In other words, strap yourself in, because this may get long.
I’ll say it again: Muslims who burn Bibles can’t call themselves Muslims.
And I believe I allowed for that in my earlier statement, did I not? However, you make a distinction for Muslims that I cannot help but note you do not make for Christians. Namely, you allow that those who do burn Bibles cannot be considered Christians, yet any Christian who does not live according to the teachings of Christ… Well, they’re still “Christians.” That is a very interesting revelation you have given.
n any event, Al JewZeera was taken over by Zionists a long time ago and no one should be using it as a source of reliable information. I wouldn’t be the first person to tell you that much of the mainstream media is a lie.
Videos rarely lie to me, personally; I’ve enough experience in cinematography that I can spot a fake. I can also spot actors when they are actors, so I can say with certainty that what I’ve seen are not fakes; they are not actors paid to perform; they are people who sincerely believe in what they are doing and are zealously proclaiming their right to do so.
As I allowed in my earlier statement, and referenced yet again just a moment ago, they may not be Muslim by the strictest standard of the Q’ran, but they consider themselves Muslim, and that is enough for them.
I would like to hear your definition of the word “Zionist,” before I comment on that.
As for the Mainstream Media, you’re not alone in urging caution when believing anything that comes from them: I myself urge the same. Seeing as how you are aware of this issue, you by all means are aware that the same goes for such outlets as Young Turks and so forth, correct?
Your question is very easy to wrap my head around: Muslims don’t regard Jesus as the ‘perfect prophet’ at all. Where did you get this idea from?
From a Turkish Imam.
Oh- Also from the Q’ran. That would be S. 3:035-037; you might also consider the words of Said bin Al-Musaiyab in Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 54, Number 506 and Book 55, Number 641. Also the words of Abu Huraira in Sahih Muslim, Book 030, Number 5837 and 5838 as well as Book 033, 6429. Just a few examples, Teach, direct from the sources, regarding the sinless and perfect nature of Jesus.
It is the Seal of the Prophets, Mohammed, who is regarded as the perfect person.
Where did you get yours from?
Jesus did not claim divinity.
Wrong. More than three times, Christ declared Himself God.
It was the Council of Nicaea that finally decided on this issue in the 4th century, quite a long time after Jesus. That is to say, it was humans with a political agenda, since those who opposed this decision were declared heretics and later slaughtered (ie. Arians).
Really? As a man who studies history, and early church history to be specific to this case, I’d very much be interested in hearing your evidence of this. Especially given that first century sources were speaking of Christ as God.
Interestingly, as soon as Mohammed died, certain people tried immediately to confer divinity on him too, but the first Caliph, Abu Bakr, brought that idea to a swift halt with a single impassioned speech.
Yes, I’m familiar with the story. Like much of the Islamic mythology, it holds a certain interest for me.
There’s a lot of stuff in Chrisitianity that is pure human innovation, especially since a lot of Christian traditions are actually pagan in origin (what, you thought Jesus was the only healer and teacher with 12 disciples, celebrating mass with bread and wine who was crucified and rose back from the dead after 3 days? Not by a long shot).
Enlighten me. The Horus theory I’ve heard, of course. Then, naturally, there is December 25 being celebrated as the birth of Christ, Easter, Sunday, etc. Indeed, there are so many stories out there, I’m at a loss as to which one you are referring to.
You can thank the Roman emperors for most of that.
Specifically, Constantine; however, it’s so blasé to blame them, and honestly, quite run of the mill. Is there nothing that stick out in your mind? No one certain thing that elevates itself from the dregs of history?
These days, humans still decide on certain issues (e.g. female clergy, toleration of homosexuality)…
You are half-right. Humans like to decide for themselves what is right and wrong, certainly, and many claim to take the Bible into account. Very few actually do. For instance, were we living according to the teachings of Christ, and not choosing to solely apply Old Testament law, Christians would be far more willing to approach homosexuals and welcome them in to the family.
Taken strictly at its word, Teach, the Bible has far more clarity than the 2013 IRS Tax Code. The problem, as you have so well pointed out, is people and their agendas. Ironic, then, that this entire conversation hinges upon the same issue, is it not?
…and even what is canon and what isn’t. Apocrypha, anyone?
I do enjoy the Apocrypha! Maccabees 1-3, the last part of Esther, Shepherd and the much debated Book of Enoch are my favorites. Yours?
Basing my reading upon what the “accepted” canon says, then I must believe that all Scripture is God-breathed, or inspired. If that is the case, then just what were the first century leaders thinking?
Where’s God in any of that if not conveniently pushed aside?
And here is what they were thinking, Teach: According to the Scriptures, God cannot lie, nor be mistaken. As all contradictions spring from one or the other, and as Scripture is “God-breathed,” then anything which contradicts the Biblical core cannot be inspired by God. Thus, things such as the Gospel of Judas or Thomas, or the Testament of Lucifer- These things are not inspired, and are thus not Scripture. Good reads, perhaps, but not Scripture.
Contrary to your suggestions, however, there were no councils that decided canon. From the very first, canon as we now call it was comprised of the Torah, the Gospels, and letters written by the original Apostles. When later church leaders began to circulate their own , many of those letters were completely in line with what had already been written: For instance, Clement’s letters to the church in Corinth. Many of the churches began to include these along with the letters of the Apostles, the Gospels and the Torah.
However, to prevent the possible infection of non-biblical doctrine into Scripture deemed to be Divinely inspired, certain letters went out suggesting that anything not written by one of the original Apostles or followers of Christ be considered as extraneous.
This is where we get “Apocrypha” from. Yes, man had a hand in it. However, I believe that God preserves His Word, and to this day, one can compare an English Bible to an original manuscript, codex, fragment or scroll, and discover that aside from variations caused by transliteration, the message is the same.
Thus, if the Apocrypha can be shown to do the same, then it is my opinion that God has preserved it- And it is therefore inspired.
You yourself take liberties on issues such as abortion without so much a single Biblical reference…
Interesting statement. Have you an example of this? I do know that I often take stance that some could argue are without biblical backing- Indeed, BaE and I have a running disagreement on the issue of women in ministry. With this said, however, I endeavor to give my basis for each of my opinions, so your statement intrigues me.
Regardless, allow me to rectify what you claim to be an issue.
My personal stance on abortion is that it is wrong and it is murder. Why? Because I believe that life begins within the womb; even at point of conception. Scriptural backing? Ps. 51:5, 139:13-16; Jer. 1:5; Lk. 1:36, 41; etc. Thus, abortion is murder: Ex. 21:22-23 among others.
However, as a follower of Christ, I must also acknowledge that humans have freedom of will. This concept is evidenced throughout the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation. Anywhere you see a law given and a law broken or kept, that is free will in action. Automatons would either ALWAYS break or ALWAYS keep. Thus, you’ll forgive me for not listing scriptures for this, as the list itself would be far longer than I’m allowed.
Taking into account this free will, however, we also see that God will not violate that free will. Again, this concept is far too well documented within Scripture to provide a comprehensive listing- So here’s what to look for: Any time someone is about to break the law of God, and they do, it is evidence that God will not violate free will.
Now, as a follower of Christ, I am told to strive to be as my Heavenly Father. (Matt. 5:48, 19:21; Lk. 6:40; Jn. 17:22-24; Heb. 10:14; 1Jn. 4:18- etc.) If HE does not violate free will, then how can I possibly advocate its violation?
Thus, my stance on abortion is that while I personally see it as murder and sin, I will not support so-called “pro-life” organizations who attempt to violate the free will of others; nor will I support those who attempt to close down clinics. I will support those who desire to choose freely; and I will fight to see that they truly understand ALL of the choices before them, as well as show why abortion is NOT an option they should choose.
In this way, I am “turning a brother/sister from the error of their ways” and saving them “from death.” (Jas. 5:20) At the same time, I am also fulfilling my obligation as a Christian to speak truth, and to follow God.
Questions?
certain things are actually NOT yours to decide if you want to call yourself a Christian.
Ironically, you could not have made a more erroneous statement than this. You see, it is decidedly Christian to choose in EVERYTHING.
I have a few questions of my own for you.
I welcome them.
Jesus certainly didn’t wear a cross or call himself a Christian, so why do Christians?
Well, I rarely wear a cross around my neck- Am I less a Christian? Not at all. People wear the cross, or crucifixes, around their neck as Christians to remind them of the price Christ paid for our sins. Yes, there are some who believe it is somehow “taking up their cross,” but this is a complete and utter misreading, and misunderstanding, of the Scripture.
The reasons differ for everyone as regards the practice of wearing crosses; I personally take into account the words of one wise man: “Are you holding the key, or are you intending to pick the lock of Heaven’s gate?” In other words, anyone can wear one- It’s what it means to the wearer that counts.
Example of this: I will occasionally wear a cross- It’s rather small and simple, and does not stand out. I wear it on days when I am being tempted to do things I shouldn’t do, because it reminds me of what Christ did for me; it helps me to honor that sacrifice. However, I also will wear, on occasion, an inverted cross, also known as St. Peter’s Cross. Why? Because those are the days when I’m feeling particularly proud, and I need to be reminded of humility in action- Peter declared himself unworthy of dying in the same manner as Christ, and was thus executed upside down.
Given that Satanists, Lucifarians, Wiccans and others wear the inverted cross, am I any less Christian for also wearing one? No! It is not about the image, but the heart.
Christ would not have called Himself a Christian; He is why we call ourselves Christians, in a manner of speaking.
On the other hand, perhaps we should not. You see, the term from which “Christian” is derived, (sometimes mistakenly thought to be christos, when in actuality it is christianoi), was originally used in Antioch and it was hardly complimentary. It was a throwback to a cult that predated Jesus’ own birth, one which believed themselves to be following the promised Messiah; that man led them into an armed rebellion and got his followers killed. It is for this reason, when the word is seen in Acts 26:28, Paul refuses to be given that label- As a former pharisee, he knew about that cult, and knew when he was being mocked.
And why don’t Christians “pray on their faces” (ie. like Muslims) as the Bible COMMANDS them to?
I find that command nowhere in the Bible except where being urged to repentance. In 2 Kings 20:2, Hezekiah turns his face to the WALL and prays- And God responds. We do see that in 2 Chr. 20:18, Jehoshaphat kneels with his face to the ground… In prayer, praise and thanksgiving… But again, it is not commanded. Ezra declares that he is “too ashamed and disgraced to lift up my face to you, my God” (Ezra 9:6) which indicates that such a practice was commonplace. Luke 9:29 tells us that as Christ prayed, His face began to shine- Impossible to know if His face was to the ground. Moreover, we see Christ praying with His face to the sky repeatedly throughout the Gospels. The exception to this was the Garden of Gethsemane prior to His trial and subsequent execution.
Finally, it is of interest to note, in light of your question, that Christ said to “keep watch and pray always.” The only way to do this is to keep one’s head up and eyes open. Bowing one’s head was a sign of respect, worship, reverence, and/or repentance, but it is not a requirement placed upon a Christian.
Why do they persist in praying to the dead (e.g. Mary, the saints) when it is actually the dead who need the prayers of the living?
Two things are wrong with this statement: First and foremost, the dead need not prayer, nor food, nor water- They are dead. Their race is run, their time is spent, and they have moved from this world to the Throne of Judgment. While 2 Maccabees is used to support praying for the dead, the book itself is historical as opposed to instructional- Thus, the concept is ludicrous. Christ Himself alluded to this in several parables and statements. This includes, by the way, one of His claims to Deity: “I am the way, the truth and the life; no man comes to the Father but by Me.” (Jn. 14:6)
Prayers for the dead can do nothing, as the decision that affects one’s eternal destination is made only in this life.
Secondly, you are thinking of Catholics, as pertains to petitioning saints, and making a blanket statement upon the whole of Christianity. This is a foolish mistake.
The Catholic tradition of praying to saints has had many contributing factors, but the one I believe to have been the first was a statement made by Paul, the traditional author of Hebrews, as confirmed by many early fathers including Clement. In Hebrews 12:1, he writes that we have a great cloud of witnesses surrounding us, watching as we run our race. In Romans 12, Paul makes mention of Christians being a part of one body, and in 1 Corinthians 12, he states that when one part of the body suffers, all suffer.
These statements led to the belief that one could petition those saints who had gone on before to join one in prayer over a need. The prayer to Saint Anthony, for example, while deifying him, state specifically that the petitioner is wishing his aid in bringing the petition to the throne of God. The prayer to Joseph, husband of Mary, asks him to carry petitions to Christ. The prayer to St. Dymphna is actually a prayer to God about her, and exemplifies her example in petition for others. The prayer to St. Jude- Same thing: Imploring their joining the petitioner in prayer.
Protestant Christians, on the other hand, do not do this, for we recognize that there is only One Mediator; moreover, we need only one. No priest, no saint, and no minister can get to the Lord any better or faster than I in most cases.
So, my friend, I highly and strongly encourage you to be cautious with your over reaching statements.
Thanks for your detailed reply. I’ll keep my replies a bit shorter because otherwise I’ll end up spending too much time here and I’d prefer to do other things. I’m not going to convert you to my way of thinking and you’re not going to convert me, we’re just having a friendly chat about things and then go on our separate ways.
I’m a Muslim, and that is my source on things Islamic. While we hold Jesus as special, we strictly deny his divinity, nor does he or any other prophet have the same status as Mohammed. Jesus (Issa) isn’t mentioned at all in our daily obligatory prayers unless we’re reciting parts of the Qur’an during prayer that happen to mention him. However, prophet Mohammed and to a lesser extent Ibrahim (Abraham) are mentioned in every prayer.
I don’t care which imam told you that Jesus is the ‘perfect prophet’ but Mohammed is the last one, he is very much alone in that belief. I haven’t heard such a statement before and frankly I’m shocked by it. There are a lot of Sufis in Turkey, and Sufis are generally regarded as barely Islamic even though they think otherwise. We have some divisions in Islam and we are not supposed to.
You see, as far as we are concerned, Judaism and Christianity are really earlier versions of Islam. This means that followers of any of God’s prophets were essentially submitting to God’s will. “Islam” basically means to submit to God, not “peace” like most people in the West think. In our “al Fatihah” (opening) prayer, which is so important that it is repeated in every prayer cycle (i.e. recited 17 times a day minimum) we mention “the ones who incurred God’s hatred” and that refers to Jews for, amongst other things, their habit of murdering prophets. We also mention “the ones who were led astray” and this refers to Christians for believing, amongst other things, that Jesus is God. We ask to be led down “the straight path” and not make similar mistakes.
There are plenty of sects and divisions in Christianity (we have them in Islam too, but I think not to the extent that you do). This is a problem because they can’t all be right. Our prophet predicted many things that have come to be true, and one of them was that Islam would be divided into a certain number of sects and the true believers would finally be regarded as something of an oddity to the others. It was one of the signs of the end of days.
About Christians living according to the Bible, I haven’t met many Christians who avoid usury (interest). I can tell you that pious Muslims go out of their way to avoid it. It’s something that is strictly forbidden because it is one of the greatest evils. I have interest free bank accounts and cannot take a loan except from an Islamic bank. I think it’s interesting to note the the only countries that don’t have Rothschild banks in them are countries that are on the US government’s “most wanted” list. They’re all state sponsors of terrorism, naturally.
You can’t be a Muslim without observing the 5 pillars. You also have to pay attention to what is in the Qur’an and the hadith (sayings of the Prophet). Generally, anyone who fails to do this is not a Muslim, although by asking God for forgiveness and staying on the straight path you can return to the fold. The only thing that cannot be forgiven is not believing in pure monotheism – the oneness of God.
Zionism is essentially atheism, although many Zionists who claim to be Jews or Christians pretend otherwise. Modern day “Israel” is not the Israel of the Bible, not by any stretch of the imagination. One of the tests of a true religion is whether or not it is anti-racist, and Zionist “Israel” is not only decidedly racist, it is anti-God. Christian ministries and anyone else who sends money to “Israel” is in big trouble.
Not coincidentally, Zionist occupied countries all have Rothschild banks in them.
Wish you all the best, RETS, I really do. I will read your reply with interest but I probably won’t post anything new for the reasons I already mentioned.
Hi Teacher E,
Please refrain from racist remarks. Further use of them will result in being banned. Thanks in advance for helping to keep the message boards respectful.
PS. My favourite Christian apocryphal writing is the story of Phineas. Ah yes, God’s a White supremacist at heart and He doesn’t want Him none of that miscegenation, no siree! Put javelins through all those dusky Midianite ladies and their disobedient lovers!
The story of Phineas is why Christian churches in the US (and other places) had a little spot on the balcony where “people of colour” could be part of the congregation without offending the sensibilities of good, honest White folk.
I really won’t be responding to much of your own response; mainly due to the fact that, rather than address what I had brought up, you took one section and went on a tangent. I find it ironic that as a Muslim, (something I had deduced from your January 23 post), you did not address what I presented as evidence of Christ’s sinless perfection. I find it ironic that you did not address any of the responses I gave concerning the specific issues you raised in your January 24 (12:46am) reply.
I find these things and more to be ironic, because I had already stated, ahead of time, that you would do so. (The problem, as you have so well pointed out, is people and their agendas. Ironic, then, that this entire conversation hinges upon the same issue, is it not?) I had already seen your personal agenda- But I’m a sucker for a good discussion!
You bring up usery: Did you take into account the fact that Muslims charge interest of anyone who is NOT Muslim? Yes, Christians are supposed to avoid charging interest among themselves, but they are also supposed to be fair with those not Christians. The majority of Christians I know will loan money without interest to a brother, AND to a non-believer.
You say you cannot be a Muslim without observing the Five Pillars: Are you sure it’s the Five, and not the Seven, or the Six? There seems to be some doubt as to whether it is only the Shahadah (profession of faith); Salah (prayer); Zakat (charity, or the giving of alms); Sawm (fasting- Ramadan comes to mindas the most recognizable example, but many believe this goes beyond just the one month, and instead applies to any fast); and of course the Hajj (pilgrimage to Mecca).
However, it seems that some believe that Jihad is the sixth pillar; Jihad of course meaning holy war- Some teach it to be a specifically internal struggle against one’s own sinfulness, while others go so far as to say that it is war upon not only the People of the Book, but also upon the unfaithful Muslim.
Then, there are those who believe that Taharah (purity) is a pillar; while the majority of others believe that purity is a part of the fourth pillar, Sawm, as purity is attained through fasting. Let us also not forget that some see the Shahadah as being the foundation upon which all the other pillars are built, and therefore it does not even HOLD a place as a pillar; instead, it is replaced with Walayah, or Tasim: Loyalty, or Submission.
Teach, the fact is that not more than ten years ago, I was studying Islam as a potential convert- And converting, not from Christianity, but from Lucifarianism; I followed and worshiped, willingly, Shatan. There is nothing within Islam but death and judgment, even towards the faithful; there is nothing within Islam but uncertainty and manipulation.
Yes, these things could be said of Christianity- But only of the people within it, and not of YHVH- Whereas Allah simply does not seem to be able to make up his mind on whether you are to attack, or be at peace, for example.
.
You bring up the story of Phineas as an Apocryphal account, which only shows your true ignorance of the Bible. Numbers 25 holds that story, and is very much canon. Moreover, while white supremacists do use that passage as proof of their sin being “truth,” they do so at the cost of rejecting the rest of Scripture. Had they taken the rest of Scripture into account, they would have seen Paul speaking to Philemon about receiving Onesimus to him as a brother and not as a slave; they would have seen Peter being told that all men were equal and made clean under the sacrifice of Christ; and they would have seen Christ’s treatment of all peoples as equals.
This brings up another point of difference between Christianity and Islam: Christians are to take the Bible, as a whole, into account when studying it and expounding upon it. Muslims are told WITHIN the Q’ran and the Hadiths that certain sections have been canceled out by other sections, yet they remain. As I said- Islam is naught but confusion, led by a wavering deity and established by a drunk, drug addicted adulterer who longed for something to unite the nomadic tribes under him, for the express purpose of waging war on the ruler who threw him out.
If you wish to call a spade a spade; if you wish to call out inconsistencies; you need only look to your own Q’ran and prophet. Harmonize those without the cure-all “Allah wills it,” and I’ll sit and eat with you, discussing the apparent inconsistencies of my own belief.
Teacher, educate thyself.
so why can’t we just try to HELP her to turn away from the devil? instead of trying to like, put her down. Think God would want us to help people to get to Heaven than to trashing them.
Agreed, friend. The question is, “Will she allow it?”
Moreover, not everyone is going to be led to witness directly to her. I know for a fact that some already have. For those others, however, warnings against her are in order, because until she is a member of the Body, she is a tool of the Enemy. This does not mean she should be shunned; it does not mean she should be cursed; it does mean that her music and influence should be avoided until such time as she is redeemed.
Kesha is not part of the illumati. You have obviously misread the symbols. The satan star is a 5 point star, which a point is facing downwards. In kesha’s star the point is not facing downwards… So it makes it the Wiccan sign. Wiccan’s, lover of animals and nature. She says were are animals, and she loves animals; thus making her an innocent wiccan if anything. In her music video die young, she is being free with her and her “wild” friends; and she is saying we don’t need to prey to live; we can just love who we are and just live before we die. Accusing a Wiccan of satanism is like accusing jews of being muslim. As both; i understand. But she went on a spiritual journey, meaning she found who she is. Every artist sends out the message of “sex”, she is no different. In the bible they say if a women has sex with man who she is not married to, she will be taken to her fathers house and stoned to death…. We have to understand times have changed. We act and understand things differently now… Any questions please contact me….
please excuse the typos; my auto-correct changes a lot…
Speaking as a former lucifarian… Any belief that does not serve the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob; any belief which does not acknowledge the ineffectiveness of humanity to fix humanity; any belief which does not point to Christ and Him crucified, raised and returning…
Well, one way or another, they ARE following the devil, whether or not they are in direct worship of him.
Yes, she’s acting the part of the perfect Wiccian child… But if she is not worshiping Christ, she is serving Satan.
Obviously some people are missing the point
There are many satanic music videos trying to lead the young on the wrong path
Plain and simple as the author said in the first place!
Being a born again christian means that you don’t take part in things that clearly blaspheme. The man cooper is not a christian,maybe he goes to church but not to pray but was sent to infiltrate the church.I wonder how many spells he casts on people in a service.devil worshippers are always given assignments to destroy the church.
I encourage you to read Rebbeca Brown’s books,you will understand whats going on.
Jackie, with all due respect, you can take Rebbeca Brown’s books, together with every Chick Trak in existence, and shove them where the sun doesn’t shine.
The last thing I’m going to do is take the word of some nutball as Gospel.
Oh, wait… Did you want to know how I know she and Jackie-boy are nuts?
Because I was a lucifarian.
Look it up, and when you have, do yourself and everyone else around you a favor: Start listening to the Holy Spirit, and stop reading Chick.
I hope its in the past(licifarian),judging by your reactions……………..am doubtful if you really a born again christian. Actually rebecca talks about being called nuts and stuff but thats what people say about God’s messengers who bring out the truth about hidden occultic things. God loves you
It is. Of that, I am assured.
It is not your place to judge. You can quote every verse about saints judging angels and the wicked all you like, but notice that in every one of them, the judgment comes after those in positions to judge are perfected.
Unless you can say you are perfect, drop the act.
Doubt all you like; you doubt God’s own redeeming power.
I’ll not call your salvation into question, because I do not know you. Here on the internet, in text form, it is impossible to know the spirit of a person. I have gotten to know BaE a little, through personal communication, but that is all. I know you as well as I knew Adam.
With that said. Jonathan Edwards, when confronting the detractors of the Great Awakening, wrote in A Treatise Concerning Religious Affections that:
As I cannot witness your life, nor you mine, such doubts serve no purpose but that which is of Satan. The same goes for Vinnie, and every other individual whom you are not able to witness the Fruit of the Spirit in person.
I’m sure she does, and until she bothers to learn a little on her own, she should get used to it. Rebecca and those like her, as well as Jack Chick and his followers, are the unassuming assistants for any intended church division.
I became a Lucifarian because I recognized that God existed, and I had determined that I hated Him: and this was after having grown up within the church as a boy! After making the decision to follow the Left Hand path, I studied more than ever everything the Christian church puts out… And of all the people that I would have felt threatened by, those two and the people like them concerned me the least. Do you know why?
Because they are preaching something other than the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and thus are in violation of Galatians 1:8-9, among other Scripture. What they preach does not line up with the Gospel, and as such, they unwittingly made it easier to walk into a church and spread division. All I had to do was point out a woman’s heavy makeup and suggest the Jezebel spirit; point to a man’s cross necklace and suggest a spy of the Catholic church; point to the pastor’s children and note that his house wasn’t in order… And then leave a few strategically chosen Chick Tracks laying around.
I am not calling their salvation into question, either; to be clear, I believe I’ll get to ask them why they chose to do more harm than good within the Body of Christ while dining at the Marriage Feast of the Lamb. Make no mistake, however; they do in fact cause more harm than they, perhaps, know.
That should be what every believer says about false messengers, deluded believers, and every wayward doctrine that comes down the line. Had the Christian church been more keen on confronting these things, as opposed to attempting to stamp out drunkenness, teen pregnancy, abortion and gambling, then the issues I just mentioned would have been dealt with by the Lord’s own hand.
I’ve said it before, Jackie, and I will absolutely say it again: Anyone who brings a message that does not line up with the Word of God is a false prophet, and anyone who is teaching something as Gospel that does not line up with what is in the Word is espousing doctrines of demons.
No matter who they are, or where they are, or how many followers they have, such people absolutely need to be confronted; and if they do not yield, then they are to be opposed at every turn.
This I know. It is portrayed through your own comments on this article, however, that the people which you love fit into a very narrow field. Remember this? “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”
How about this? “There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. We love him, because he first loved us. If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?”
If you know these, then drop Rebecca and Jack, grab your Bible, and study for yourself the meaning of this: “Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.“
hmmmmmmmmmmmm
This page accusing ke$ha of anti-christian speech/music etc… is the most bull– ive heard ever. Im a Pagan and okay the video is offensive to us, if anyone shoud be kicking off it the Pagan community, Im not a massive fan of kesha or the style of music but it is the radical christians that take stuff and want to be offended by stuff that cause these arguments, i really wish people would stop accisiating the pentagram with satanists.
P.S pagans are not evil, we are a peace loving religion that mean no harm to anyone.
“An it harm none do what ye will” – Wiccan rede(most official form of our religious text you’ll probally find.)
Hi Meredith,
Thanks for your comments. So are you saying that a video in which a singer and her crew walk into a church and destroy it is not “anti-Christian”? I understand your anger, but it just seems odd that you find the article offensive but don’t think the video should be offensive to Christians.
First, all due respect Meredith, but you and I both know that there are a lot more self-proclaimed pagans out there that do not recognize the rede. It’s much like the self-proclaimed Christians that refuse to acknowledge the words of Christ.
Those like yourself are absolutely some of the nicest I’ve ever been around; but I’ve also been around some… Well, let’s just say they were the exact opposite and leave it at that.
Finally, like it or not, the pentagram has been co-opted by Satanists. It’s not just you, though- They’ve done the same thing with “St. Peter’s Cross.”
Be Blessed.
I grew up listening to Alice Cooper’s music. Although I never met him, I can say that during those years I spent listening to every song that man put his name too, those were some of the darkest years of my life. His main themes were: death, insanity, darkness, and violence.
That man may now be trying to atone for all his dark past, but let’s not pretend, and call a spade a hammer.
Buddying up with Ke$ha, who proudly displays her Satanism or anti-Christian whatever, to me, says Alice is either a CINO (Christian In Name Only) or has a serious lack of discernment…or both.
For all the people who are so quick to say, “Do not judge!” – This argument is old and worn out. How are we to avoid end-time deception (or deception in general) without first judging???
We are commanded to judge in many places in the Bible. It is a shocking thought, but it is true. We are commanded to judge false prophets. How? We are to judge their fruit, which are their lifestyles. The rest of Matthew 7 says that they will come to us in sheep’s clothing.
Matt.7:16-19 says, “By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes, or grapes from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit and a bad tree cannot bear good fit.”
By their fruit…. In other words we are to judge these prophets by what they say and do.
2 Tim. 3:1 says, “This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.”
How are we to know who to turn away from if we are not to judge? We are not to have anything to do with people who claim to be Christians yet are still lovers of their own selves, covetous, blasphemers, and all of the rest of those things. In other words, people who claim to be Christians yet whose behavior proves that they do not have the power of Christianity. What is that power? The power of Jesus Christ living inside by the Holy Ghost which results in a HOLY LIFE.
The best kind of judgment and the most correct judgment is when one judges oneself, not according to what he feels in his heart but by the Word of God. There are many other scriptures about judging as well.
I say this again, because it is written by RETS (especially) over and over again. That is his big argument with people – not judging. Most of what he says is completely unbiblical. His attitude is of arrogance/pride (an unteachable spirit). I hope anyone that stumbles across this board will know that you should judge a person by their fruit (actions) and not what people say. People say all kinds of things, but it is a person’s actions that matter. To avoid end-time deception, please ignore the “do not judge” message. That is setting you (and the church as a whole) up to be deceived.
And if you believe that I’ve stated empirically that people are not to judge at all, then you’ve seen only what you wished.
Arrogant? Please see your closest mirror.
I find it interesting that the same person who thinks Alice Cooper is operating from the spirit of God is now accusing me of not operating out of the spirit of God. I will give you a hint: The spirit of God loves His Word and loves His people. Someone who warns the sheep and uses Bible verses to do it, just might be operating out of the spirit of God. Versus, someone who calls himself “master” and uses no Bible verses and has no fruit, but many words: Alice Cooper. Alice Cooper is in a very special position in that he could actually influence people if he were truly a Christ follower. Christ followers promote Christ and never themselves and they do not do questionable things in the name of “entertainment”. The fear of God is severely lacking.
I never made that accusation of you, personally- Rather the action of posting your original article multiple times. It was the deed that was being examined, not you as a person.
You may wish to think on this a bit. Or not. It is completely up to you.
As for the topic of judgment….
Often used in this argument is this verse, which is speaking about judging issues arising between brothers and sisters in Christ. It is not talking about judging spirituality, though there is precedent for that as well. Note, however, that Paul states that this judgment “shall” happen. He is referencing the final judgment- It is not something we stand in while encased in these mortal and fallible shells.
Another verse often taken out of context of even its preceding verse. The idea, of course, being that far from merely people, Christians will judge angels. Note the last half of this verse however. Once more, Paul is speaking about a judgment to come; a time when we are giving judgment from a state of perfection. That is not the here and now.
.
With this being said, we are told “Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.” (John 7:24) Is this a case of the oft decried Scriptural contradictions? No- Such things do not exist when truly studied. In fact what Christ was saying, according to the original Greek, was that we are not to sit in condemnation of others, but to use proper discernment. What I was speaking out against was not the use of discernment, but the condemnation which is so liberally thrown around.
To someone who is claiming to be of a discerning spirit, yet who ignores entirely the outcome in favor of decrying the tactic, I would say this: No, I don’t believe that the ends justify the means, and I would love to see Vinny show Christ in a much clearer manner. However, I find myself thinking of two verses whenever I begin to feel the need to complain about his methods:
The first is James 4:12 – “There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?”
The short answer: I am in no place nor any condition to pass judgment.
The second verse is 1 Corinthians 3:3-7 – “For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth anything, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.”
There is a verifiable increase in the Kingdom of God as a result of this man’s work- And who am I to say that one is greater than another? As Paul here states: The man and methods are nothing without the Lord’s power, and if the Lord sees fit to move through Vinny’s ministry, then who the hell am I, you or anyone to challenge the will of God on this issue?!
I have answered your charges against me, Angie, and have presented my case with solid evidence, both from this world and from the Word of God. I challenge you to prove your own accusations, or denounce them entirely. I have answered according to 1 Peter 3:15, and I charge you to do the same.
I’ll wait…
I think Ke$ha should continue to do exactly what she has been doing and ignore the christian —- who don’t like it! In fact, I think she should get more extremely and more sexual and she should tell people who don’t like it to — off!
Alles Vorurteile,
Ave Luzifer!!!
666
Yes, I’m german, i’m satanist and PROUD!
[censored for personal attacks].
The balance between good and evil. Light and dark. Lucifer is the morning star. This later attribution of a devil seems just. As he took one third of the angels and descended from heaven. Lest not forget Lucifer is said to be an angel of music. Once God’s most beloved. Later replaced by Jesus. A man on God’s throne. Which is a powerful example of the fall of sin. To know God we must judge.
I don’t really know this singer. Though symbolism is part of the Bible. The use of these symbols makes one think beyond reason. Oh I’ll look into her.
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reading over the replies from this article .. what is the issue with Chick tracts?
I have handed out /purchased thousands of them and recall being as young as seven years old reading one.
I didn’t surrender to Christ Jesus until I was 37
but those tracts instilled the Gospel into my heart.
very clear and to the point about my need of a LORD and Savior