Science is finally catching up to Scripture.
In yet another confirmation of the Bible’s accuracy, scientists have now confirmed what Scripture refers to as “the fountains of the deep.” In the days of Noah and the Ark, these large pools of water beneath the Earth’s crust burst forth onto the surface providing the massive amounts of water needed for the global flood judgment. What has once been a source of skepticism and mockery for those who doubt the Bible, has now been confirmed by secular scientists, again showing that although written over 3,000 years ago, the Bible’s description of the Earth and its natural properties are indeed accurate.
According to reports:
An international team of scientists led by Graham Pearson, Canada Excellence Research Chair in Arctic Resources at the U of A, has discovered the first-ever sample of a mineral called ringwoodite. Analysis of the mineral shows it contains a significant amount of water — 1.5 per cent of its weight — a finding that confirms scientific theories about vast volumes of water trapped 410 to 660 kilometres beneath Earth’s surface, between the upper and lower mantle.
“This sample really provides extremely strong confirmation that there are local wet spots deep in the Earth in this area,” said Pearson, a professor in the Faculty of Science, whose findings were published March 13 in Nature. “That particular zone in the Earth, the transition zone, might have as much water as all the world’s oceans put together.”
Ringwoodite is a form of the mineral peridot, believed to exist in large quantities under high pressures in the transition zone. Ringwoodite has been found in meteorites but, until now, no terrestrial sample has ever been unearthed because scientists haven’t been able to conduct fieldwork at extreme depths. (source).
The chart above shows where the water beneath the Earth’s crust is located.
The vast oceans of water beneath the Earth’s crust is precisely what the Bible describes in the first book of Genesis. In fact, prior to the flood of Noah’s day, it had never rained. The waters from the fountains of the deep, the water reservoirs beneath the Earth’s crust: provided water:
And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. 6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. (Genesis 2:5-6).
This was the state of the Earth until the days of the flood judgment. And it would be two-fold: water came from the sky in torrential rain, and from the ground, as The Lord caused the huge oceans of subterranean water to burst forth and shoot onto the surface.
And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth. In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. (Genesis 7:10-11).
A sample of the Ringwoodite diamond.
Gaines Johnson, a Christian geologist and author of “The Bible, Genesis and Geology” explains this occurrence from a scientific standpoint:
“Geysers occur when waters in underground chambers are heated by the surrounding host rock until the pressure and temperature cause them to flash to steam and erupt upwards. When the chamber is emptied, replacement water flows back into the chamber, the replacement water is heated, and the cycle repeats. An excellent example of this is seen in Yellowstone National Park’s “Old Faithful” geyser.
According to what is written in the Scriptures, the fountains of Noah’s flood may have been a similar form of geyser activity on a massive, world-wide scale, concentrated along the mid-oceanic ridge system. A careful reading of Genesis 7:6-10 seems to indicate that the flood waters were already rising for about seven days before the fountains “were broken up” (verse: 11)….
Careful parsing of the above passage indicates that great amounts of water were already being added to the Earth’s seas at least seven days before the rains even began. This means that sea level was already rapidly rising, flooding low lying coastal areas and sending panicked low-land inhabitants inland from the rising seas. Meanwhile, presumably up on much higher ground, Noah and his family took shelter on the Ark and waited, while the massive gopher wood vessel remained firmly nested in its construction frame, unmovable and secure until the rising waters lifted it from its resting place.
The great volume of water this early in the flood event could only come from massive undersea “fountains” beginning to breech the crust all along the mid-oceanic ridge system. But this preliminary out-flow was still insufficient to breech the ocean’s surface. The volume of underwater displacement would, however, be sufficient enough to generate global tsunami (tidal waves) activity, quickly drowning inhabitants who lived near the seas.
Seven days into the flood the undersea fountains broke through the crust in full fury, and the pressure of the flow sent scalding columns of superheated waters upwards, breeching the ocean’s surface and erupting skyward as a globe-encircling curtain of steam rocketing into the upper atmosphere. As the steam came into contact with the colder air it would condense and produce cloud cover and relentless rainfall on a planetary scale. This is precisely the sequence of events described in this part of the passage:
‘In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.'” (Gen 7:11-12 KJV) (source).
At the end of the flood, the Bible again accounts for the fountains of the deep being ‘stopped’
and the water returning back into the ground:
And God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the cattle that was with him in the ark: and God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters assuaged; The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained; And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated. And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat. And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen. (Genesis 8:1-5).
When The Lord gave the Ten Commandments to Moses he also referenced this underground water source:
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. (Exodus 20:4).
Ezekiel 26 is an address of judgment upon the city of Tyre. In it the Bible recounts how this island city would be destroyed by water and this Divine judgment will come from “the deep”:
And they shall take up a lamentation for thee, and say to thee, How art thou destroyed, that wast inhabited of seafaring men, the renowned city, which wast strong in the sea, she and her inhabitants, which cause their terror to be on all that haunt it! Now shall the isles tremble in the day of thy fall; yea, the isles that are in the sea shall be troubled at thy departure.For thus saith the Lord God; When I shall make thee a desolate city, like the cities that are not inhabited; when I shall bring up the deep upon thee, and great waters shall cover thee; –Ezekiel 26:17-19.
Answering Skeptics
The area known to geologists as “the Ring of Fire” is a primary place for water to break through to the Earth’s surface.
Many have questioned the Biblical account of Noah’s flood since the Bible clearly states that the water was 15 cubits (approximately 25 feet) over every mountain. This would require more water than presently exists on the Earth’s surface. However, with the confirmation of the subterranean oceans, that is now possible (and Johnson also points this out).
Of note is that Johnson wrote these articles years before scientists’ recent discovery. Additionally, scientists have also just recently confirmed that large amounts of water could reach the Earth’s surface through deep sea faults. And the area of the globe with the greatest potential to do so are in the Pacific “ring of fire” volcanic region the precise area Johnson’s article identifies as the most likely source for the great geysers that flooded the Earth in Noah’s day.
Being a born again Christian is not an intellectual pursuit. It is not the result of examining evidence and analyzing data. It comes through faith. It is faith and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ that saves a person. But Christian faith is not blind faith. It is based on understanding and believing God’s Word. And the Bible confirms that nature itself proves God’s existence. In this way, scientific discoveries that confirm the Bible are indeed helpful and exciting. Pray for more people to look to God’s Word and believe the Gospel as science confirms the Bible – even if they are 3,500 years behind.
Well, this should finally put to bed the whole “local flood” garbage that’s been adopted by so many half-believers. This discovery has so many ramifications on geology and plate tectonics, it’s going to take years to sort it all out. Those poor, poor skeptics….
Our God Reins!
So is god the horse or the rider??
Oh please! Before it rained for ’40 days and 40 nights’ and now it gurgled out of the Earth? I love how believers conveniently attempt to dance around scientific discovery to rationalize their delusions. The ‘Flood’ and ‘Creation’ myths in Genesis bear an uncanny resemblance to a Sumerian tale that predates its plagiarized version in Genesis called, The Epic of Gilgamesh, among other stories gleaned by the Hebrew goat herders that frequented the Fertile Crescent at the time.
Hi Bob,
Thanks for your comments. As stated in the article, the Bible, in Genesis says the floodwaters came from rain AND from below the Earth’s surface. The latter is not a “recent” discovery. That has been the Biblical account for over 3,500 years.
As for the flood account bearing resemblance to the Epic of Gilgamesh, there is an obvious reason for that – a global flood really happened. There are dozens and dozens of ancient global flood accounts in civilizations all over the world. So your point only further proves the validity of the Bible – in that a global flood did indeed happen (and of course individual cultures recorded it from their perspective).
I would only urge you to read the Bible with an open heart and not in attempt to “put God on trial.” The Lord Jesus Christ loves you and died to reconcile you back to Him. Why not read God’s Word before judging it as invalid?
“Whosoever shall call upon the name of The Lord shall be saved.” -Romans 10:13.
How to Get To Heaven
The Bible has ALWAYS said that the waters came out of the earth, too. The Bible calls it the :Fountains of the deep.” It has ALWAYS said that! Many people have Focused Only on the words that it RAINED 40 days, 40 nights…Yet, the fact that there were “Fountains of the deep’ was always in there. I just learned that. Instead of making fun of people, maybe LEARN something new yourself.
Bob , Just because you dont believe doesnt mean you have to be rude. I believe wholeheartedly the bible describes a flat earth and with the extremely high wall of ice at the Antarctic that circles the flat earth would account for the water rising like in a bowl. I have been a bible believer for 35 years and have found most Christians are closed minded when it comes to looking at things that go beyond their religious beliefs. Your right, the story of Epic of Gilgamesh. I am starting to believe that some of our stories in the bible may have come from other stories much older but that doesnt make them wrong, it becomes a matter of cultural legend and may be described a little different but the fact still remains that it is a Universal story and backed by science.
According to science, only 3 percent of the water on Earth is fresh water. That means the oceans are only three percent short of what the fresh water would add to the supposed flood. Along way from what would be needed to cover the face of the whole world.The Genesis account is quite simply talking about a supposed great deep located above the heavens. It was written in total ignorance of the facts.
I am a believer, but I don’t swallow what an unknown group of men compiled a long time ago. They quite simply arranged what they had to draw from in such a way as to not go against the first 5 books of the old testament.
Anyone should be able to see that some force had to have created everything, and the same force keeps it in line. God is supposed to be everywhere, and all powerful, and all knowing. That sounds to me like the complete laws of physics. They reside in every molecule of everything.
Jesus certainly came the closest to fulfilling the requirements needed to be called God’s son. There did not seem to be anything that he did not have power over. Even death it’s self had to succumb to his will.
Bob, I don’t know what you think you know, but the fact remains that ALL of this information is not knew. It’s all spoken of in the BIBLE, like it or not. And if you don’t believe so, it is quite simple to research what is written in the BIBLE to confirm.
Great piece. I watched a documentary a few years ago called “dragons or dinosaurs; creation or evolution” – it wasn’t about the flood perse but it was along the same lines about how the scientific community has tried to “unexplain” Gods/biblical acts through a fabricated science. a little touches on the floods. Anyway it can all be explained. – it’s just the unbelievers who don’t like t explained.
First of all, you can’t take a scientific paper about a newly discovered mineral (which so far has not been found anywhere else but Brazil) that has a higher than expected amounts of water content and speculates that there may be a significant amount of H20 mixed in with the molten rock in the mantle (“Vast oceans of water” are not possible and even if they were, scientists would have detected them already the same way they detected Earth’s core) and extrapolate it as proof that the Biblical flood myth was real. That’s not at all how science works. That’s literally no more valid than if someone said these findings prove that Jules Verne’s novel ‘Journey To The Center of the Earth” is non-fiction. I’m some respects, it’s actually less valid because it implies that a supernatural force brought forth an unbelievable amount of water out of the ground in order to kill everything on Earth except a guy, his family, and two of every single species of animal on Earth (Did Noah actually bring along two of every one of the MILLIONS of different species of insect and arachnid, of which we’ve, as of now, only found a little more than a million of? What about plant life?).
Do you have any idea how many laws of physics you’d have to warp, if not completely throw out the window for that to be true? If you want to be able to claim that this is proof that the Biblical account of a global flood inundating the entire surface of the Earth with tens of thousands of feet of water, you’re going to have to explain how it is even possible.
Problem number one: that would require A LOT more water than you’d think. Just for fun, I went ahead and calculated how much you’d need to do that. So, Mt. Everest is about 29,000 feet (8.8 km)… but I’ll factor in the rate at which Everest grows per year (4-10 cm) due to plate tectonics. Extrapolating that back to approx. what the altitude of Everest would’ve been 3000 years ago, assuming the any difference of the mean growth rate over that amount of time would be negligible… well, the difference would be less than a thousand feet. However, since I’m not factoring in volume of land mass above sea level (which, due to displacement, would decrease the amount of water needed to top Everest) because that’s a very difficult thing to calculate, I’ll compensate for that discrepancy by cutting the factor of height of Everest to 25,000 feet (7.62 km). Now, to figure out the volume of water that would be needed to raise the sea level so that the ENTIRE surface of the Earth was water, I calculated the approximate volume of the Earth [4/3*pi*radius^3 with a radius of 6738 km] and subtracted that from the volume of the Earth if sea level was 7.62 km higher.
And so, for your theory that the vast amount of water that flooded the Earth in the story of Noah’s Ark came from oceans underneath the Earth’s crust to be correct, those *hypothetical* subterranean oceans would have to contain… drum roll please… a total of approx. 4.5 BILLION CUBIC KILOMETERS of liquid H20!!!! To give you an idea of how much that is, the rough total volume of water in all the world’s oceans combined is a paltry ~1.3 billion cubic km. Ergo, there’d have to be almost three and half times more water under Earth’s crust than on the surface. Is that plausible possibility?
Not even close.
But regardless of that… what’s the point of trying to use science to legitimize beliefs that, without the ability to backup with empirical data, can’t ever validate? Christians already believe in creationism, virgin births, miracles, resurrection, and a God that will answer prayers to arbitrarily decide the winner of football games. How is erroneously attributing cherry-picked scientific data as proof of something it has nothing to do with because it, at the very least, doesn’t (explicitly) refute a religious belief going to give Christianity any credibility when you don’t bother holding the rest of it to a scientific standard? Science just doesn’t work that way. In order to use science to back up a claim, you absolutely HAVE to be WILLING to admit that the claim is incorrect should the data fail to support it. Faith, by definition, is contrary to that because if nothing can convince Christians that their beliefs are not true, any assertion of truth from a Christian will always be invalid due an intrinsic and chronic confirmation bias. If Christian beliefs are fundamentally reliant on them never once considering the possibility that they are wrong, objectivity is impossible for them.Now, I know someone is going to try and argue that non-believers aren’t willing to consider the possibility that God is real, but that’s not true at all. Due to Christian indoctrination, very, very, VERY few people start out as atheists. We’ve ALL considered the possibility and without ANY definitive evidence and extensive evidence suggesting that the Bible, from which the belief in God is derived, is an undeniably untrustworthy source, what else is there to consider at this point? The burden of proof is on Christianity.
Hi Seneca,
Thanks for your comments. I have to say, respectfully, that I completely disagree with your post. So I will get right to it:
You said:
What you describe is absolutely NOT what this article asserts. The point of the article and its headline is that this scientific discovery confirms the Bible’s description of the “fountains of the deep” – a body of water deep beneath the Earth’s crust. Nowhere in the article do I ever say that the ringwoodite discovery confirms “the Biblical flood account.” This is a completely incorrect assertion on your part. And the irony is this – for someone who is purporting to be an advocate for science, precision and accuracy, you did not even accurately represent the main thesis of this article. This alone leaves you in contradiction (not to mention raises the question of your intent) but I will continue.
You said:
Let’s assume your calculation is 100% correct. How do you come to your conclusion that there is “not even close” to that much water beneath the surface of the Earth? What are you basing that on? You cite no study, research or academic source at all. So one can only conclude that’s just your opinion. Again, this is an extremely unscientific method of evaluation. Here is an article from the Science section of Pravda (clearly not a Christian publication), which reports on scientists measuring the amount of subsurface water to be FIVE TIMES that of all the oceans’ waters – and not only that, they specifically reference Noah’s flood and the feasibility of the water covering the Earth.
http://english.pravda.ru/science/earth/10-04-2007/89420-flood-0/
So even taking your calculations at 100% accuracy, it is quite easy for Mount Everest to have been covered. Also of note is that this research was based on seismographs and not the ringwoodite discovery. So there are two means by which science has confirmed the “fountains of the deep.”
You said:
This of course is a straw man argument. That would be like me saying “until science can prove we can travel 5,000 years into the past and come back with empirical data, we must reject anything physicists say.” Of course, this is a logical fallacy. I most certainly can make the assertion in this article without having to prove resurrection. As the two are not related from an evidentiary standpoint. So this point you make is frankly, irrelevant.
Where was the error? Where was the cherry-picking? I properly cited the source material and linked to it so you or anyone else can read it in its entirety. I did not quote its findings out of context. You make the clam of “cherry-picking” but show no proof of it – again show how unscientific you are being. You then say, that if a claim is not supported by data, then it “absolutely incorrect.” This is also the opposite of scientific theory, which is based on “trial and error.” The entire scientific method is based on making a theory and running tests to observe if the data to support is there. If every scientist just said “well my theory is absolutely incorrect – time to throw it in the garbage bin” on the first test if the data did not support it, we would have never had things like polio vaccine, the engine or the MRI machine (which was invented by a Bible-believing Christian -FYI).
So while I thank you for your comments, I do think you reached your conclusions with no real data to support it. The point of this article stands: over 3,500 years ago, the Biblical author Moses wrote that there were large amounts of water beneath the Earth’s surface that broke through during the flood. And this water combined with the heavy rain waters, so flooded the Earth that Mt. Everest was completely covered. And now, science is finally catching up and realizing its true.
Most importantly, from your final sentences it seems that you are trying to express that you were once a church attender or exposed to Christianity in some form. And now you are a staunch atheist (I presume). Well the atheist position is that “God does not exist.” That position is an assertion that puts the burden of proof on you. Can you prove that throughout this entire universe, with billions of planets and stars, that there is no God? Do you have empirical proof of this? Can you prove the origin of matter? These are questions for which there is obviously no empirical proof for, yet I am sure you have made conclusions on them in your heart. Why? Because you have put your faith in “science” – that it will provide an explanation absent God. You are trusting without the data. So at the end of the day, you are a faith based believer just like me.
The Bible submits its proof. It’s found in Romans 1:
So by Scripture, God is clear that all people know that The Lord exists. Why? Because nature by itself reveals the existence of God. And clearly the uniformity of nature, the absurd unique properties of the Earth itself that permit carbon-based life on it and things like the Fibonacci sequence occurring in nature repeatedly, are all clear “data” that proves a Creator and designer of this Earth and nature. So the proof is all around you. But where the problem comes in is our sin. We, meaning you and I, both were born with a sin nature. Now I am sure I don’t have to “prove” to you that you have violated God’s clear commands and done things you have known to be wrong, (i.e., lying, stealing, adulterous desires, racist thoughts, etc.) tens of thousands of times. And in our sin nature, we reject God. And the more we can find that can cast doubt on the Bible and reaffirm our own rebellion, the more entrenched we become in our “new faith” which in your case, is your atheism and faith in “science” (I put science in quotes not because I doubt science, but because much of what you have posted is the extreme opposite of science).
But no matter how much you learn, how many theories you postulate or how much data you seek, we cannot escape the universal, absolute truth: all people are sinners. And we will all die. I assume you would agree here. Where the disagreement comes is that God is going to judge us all one day. And at that point, our own ideas will no longer matter. And if we die in sin, we will suffer hell and the lake of fire. But God, in His love, sent Jesus Christ to die and take the punishment for our sins, so that we can escape certain punishment and live for eternity with God. This is serious business. You have already been proven wrong on quoting this article accurately. Thus your make mistakes. So before you make the erroneous conclusion that “there is no God”, something that could never be proven empirically, why not get to know God with an open heart and mind? Your eternal life is at stake.
“Whosoever shall call upon the name of The Lord shall be saved.” – Romans 10:13.
How To Get To Heaven
https://beginningandend.com/how-to-get-to-heaven/
Sorry, water volume has nothing to do with opinion. The vast majority of scientists accept the old earth and evolution. Deal with it. Your god commanded selling your daughter as a sex slave, abortion, stoning of women who had sex before marriage (how to prove the men were virgins? but the men weren’t property) and killing your spouse who doesn’t agree with your religion, so I really think the claims that totally disagree with science can be dismissed.
Oh, that was the OT. Well, god must have gotten saved. Oh, wait, Jesus said desert your family if they disagree with your religion, and Paul said slaves obey your masters. Not masters free your slaves.
So god magically transported billions of gallons of water UNDER the mantle after the flood? Miracle? He could have let it evaporate past the atmosphere into space. Even the explanations of how your god did something is stupid. He took the hard way out.
By the way, quoting the bible for proof is not acceptable.
Was gonna say… Quoting a book someone has already Expressed doubt in is hardly a fruitful venture
Hi Paula,
Thanks for your comments. Your points do not refute the article in the least. The point of the article stands: 3,500 years ago Moses wrote about enormous amounts of water below the Earth’s surface that was enough, combined with the rains of the flood to cover the entire surface of the Earth, even above the mountains. And science has finally realized that it is true. That the “vast majority of scientists accept the old earth and evolution” does nothing to refute the facts of the article. Furthermore, the Bible does not state the age of the Earth.
I do find it interesting that you attack the God of the Bible’s morals, but yet deny his existence. For someone who trumpets science and reason, this seems to be a contradictory position. If God is not real, He has no morals or values, rendering your points about slavery, abortion, etc., moot. So which is it?
What I see from your posts is the problem is not that you don’t believe in God. The problem is that you hate God. The Bible speaks about this in Psalm chapter 2:
The heathen – unbelievers, rage against God because they do not want God’s authority over them. The idea that you will one day be judged for all of your actions, by a Holy and righteous God and Hell is the potential punishment is very offensive to people. By nature we don’t want to be judged. By nature, we reject the notion that if we are not Holy we go to Hell. Why? Because out nature is corrupt. We are sinners who desire more sin. And therefore we are hostile to the Bible and God. The Bible says: “Because the carnal mind is enmity [at war] against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.” (Romans 8:7-8). In our sinful flesh we are not neutral towards God – we are angry. Your posts clearly reflect that. And my only desire is to urge you to consider what God has done for you. God loves you and proved it by sending Jesus Christ to die on a cross to take the punishment for your sins.
Many, many people would die for their children. But you would be hard-pressed to find any decent parent who would send their child to die for another person. Yet this is what God did for you. So perhaps you should get to know God without the preconceptions about how evil he is (especially in light of the fact that like me, you have probably sinned thousands of times in your life and a have a little evil on your own record).
Being a Christian is a spiritual process, not an intellectual one. You have to seek God with an open heart and mind or the Bible will never make sense to you. 1 Corinthians 1:18 says: “For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.” Please don’t be in the first group who are mocking God all the way to Hell. My hope and prayer is that you take the time to learn God’s Word without a desire to put God on trial or prove Christianity wrong. I do not want you to perish and suffer in eternity for the sins you have willfully committed. I am praying for you and hope you will consider God’s free offer of forgiveness. -B&E
“Whosoever shall calleth upon the name of The Lord shall be saved.” – Romans 10:13.
How to Get to Heaven
hmmm
you say in this comment above
“3,500 years ago Moses wrote about enormous amounts of water below the Earth’s surface that was enough, combined with the rains of the flood to cover the entire surface of the Earth, even above the mountains.”
but you also quote Gary Johnson in your article
“Seven days into the flood the undersea fountains broke through the crust in full fury, and the pressure of the flow sent scalding columns of superheated waters upwards, breeching the ocean’s surface and erupting skyward as a globe-encircling curtain of steam rocketing into the upper atmosphere. As the steam came into contact with the colder air it would condense and produce cloud cover and relentless rainfall on a planetary scale. ”
Gary’s comment that you quoted contradicts your comment.
You state that the waters from inside the earth COMBINED with the rains and that is why there was enough water to cover the mountains. So you are citing two sources of water.
Gary Johnson, whom you quote, says that that the rains were derived FROM the waters inside the earth. That is only one source of water.
The common theme I see with people who disagree with the bible account is sarcasm, negativity, and insults.
I am called to believe 100% in whatever theory the church of “Science of the Day” believes. We take God’s method of creation and name it ‘science’ and then at some point a sect of people plagiarizes it to make their faith seem more plausible.
The earth started covered in water. Got separated parts of it with a ‘firmament’ or ‘canopy’. I understand that to be the earth’s crust. Then He caused the waters (above the crust?) to mass into one place and land appeared (Rodinia?)
From the creation account, there was a body of water beneath the crust with one body of water and one mass of land above.
Fast-forward to Noah’s account and after his family and two of every kind (read: not species, please, thanks) of animal plus the additional, the great deep burst forth and the floodgates of heaven opened.
I’m just guessing here, but given how little we knew of the water found in the depths of the earth before, mankind doesn’t know all of the science taking place when the crust of the earth was broken up. A global transformation took place and that did not just involve water shifting places from what I gather.
We know so little about what all is down there. Only now do we (collectively speaking) ‘accept’ there is a great deal of water. God said He would never flood the earth again. Does that explain why its ‘locked’ into the rock now?
Who can argue this with any certainty.
Clay you said one thing in this statement, that colored the whole thing. You said ” I understand that to be the Earth’s crust.” That is where you went wrong the way I see things.The scriptures state very plainly that God called the firmament Heaven which the water was confined above. I believe that great deep was the great deep of space being referred to, and whoever wrote this story understood the blue sky to be a body of water. Simply speaking, I think the writer was ignorant of the actual way the world operates.
Please don’t jump to conclusions that I am not a believer in Christianity. I do believe in Christ, and The ten commandments are the real basis for nearly all of the laws that people in the free world believe in. Without a belief in the laws that are thought to be given by a deity, there would have to be a policeman for every person. That belief keeps the world from self-destructing.
I believe in the things that can be readily understood, and proved in the scriptures, but I also understand, that the Bible is a compilation of writings that were chosen by people I never knew, and taken from a group of writings that we can not prove valid. Would you trust your soul to a book written like that today? Probably not. So that being the case, why would you do so just because it is supposedly old? I think I can answer that, because I was raised up like that also, and that is the answer.
I honestly think, without any ulterior motives, that the scriptures are not a reliable source of all things scientific. I do believe they have provided a priceless service, and by doing so, they deserve the title of the word of god. The supreme commander is the one who is in complete control, and had to allow the writing and compilation of the scriptures, That does not mean they are infallible. They were written by, and complied by, and interpreted by, imperfect men.
sorry brother Clay but that is like the worst translation ever. because Im looking at the Greek right now and it says nothing like Godhead in it.. Rom. 1:20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse. I think the thing that bothers me the most as a believer is that too many regurgitate things that so called “ordained” people say or believe. I have found so many things taught that isnt correct, so I say be a good student of study and Rightly divide the word of truth dont just repeat it. Thanks and God Bless
brother i too have noticed this and am deeply troubled by it thank you for pointing this out.
Forget what is “Down There.” Concentrate on OTHER things that scientists have also discovered other things. Check the BLACK SEA FIND. Scientists know that about 7500 years ago there was a massive deluge, where huge amounts of water rushed into the Black Sea. Those waters changed it from a fresh water lake and made it into a salty Sea. This was a SUDDEN thing, not a gradual thing. It was not a Gradual Process, but something that occurred during a relatively short period of time. Again, check the BLACK SEA FIND. Also. check into FOSSILS that were found all over the world. Fossils of trees were found all over, in areas where they DID NOT Grow……they were uprooted and moved….this has been found all over the world. Also, fossils of seashells have been found on MOUNTAIN Tops…..Like the Rocky Mountains and the Himalayas. Fossils of WHALES have been found in Michigan. Some like to say that they were moved on glaciers. They would not have been found in the Middle of a Continent. I found this info from an article, articles that I read. I can share it with you when I found the article again. People should NOT go by ONE thing, like the bit about a mineral which contains much water……yet, combine it with OTHER things….things which scientists have found……such as the BLACK SEA FIND…..Which scientists have found out….and the fossils, such as seashells on the tops of mountains….and the fossils of whales found in Michigan……and trees that were uprooted and found in areas that they did not grow….this is worldwide……Check POLYSTRATE Fossils……..Much evidence has been found b y scientists….they do Not go by only ONE thing…..they put it all together…..Together, it makes sense.
Hi Peggy. Please don’t forget that according to Genesis the world was already here, It just started out covered by water, which may account for the distribution of things being on top of mountains. The Teutonic plates also moved things around a lot since this all started. What once was the bottom of the sea became the top of a mountain where the plates met and one slid under the other.
Before this go around, there appears to have been many millions of years unaccounted for.in Scriptures.The Dinosaurs obviously did not roam around with Adam, and there is absolutely no way something that large could go unnoticed. It would make sense that the fossils are left over from a prior world. Perhaps a world that met it’s end like ours is supposed to do. Perhaps simply to make a new start. There is no telling just how many times this may have happened.
Even with all of the possibilities taken into consideration, there still has to be an intelligent power behind the design, or it would not all work together for survival. So ( in my opinion ) any logical thinking person must come to this conclusion. Also ( in my opinion ) none of this has to be totally understood for one to be able to see the presence of God in every atom of everything. To me, God and the Laws Of Physics are one and the same. They control me, I do not control them. One can yell about free will, but when it all comes down to what actually takes place, we simply do not have any say over what happens to us. We don’t get to choose anything about ourselves. No one got to choose what abilities they have, or even who they are. Race, sex, family, country, brain capacity, looks, health, or anything at all are completely out of our control.
Looking at the real world through those facts, we might come to the understanding that how it all happened makes no difference at all. The next second may very well be your last breath. Perhaps we should just make the very most of it, and live in such away that those around us can do the same. When you come right to it, that is what the whole of scriptures is telling us.
Hello Howard
Respectfully; I’d like to address your assertions, specifically –
” Hi Peggy. Please don’t forget that according to Genesis the world was already here, It just started out covered by water, which may account for the distribution of things being on top of mountains. The Teutonic plates also moved things around a lot since this all started. What once was the bottom of the sea became the top of a mountain where the plates met and one slid under the other.”
Respectfully Howard, if you’re going to use God’s creation account then you cannot take out sections which are convenient to your personal idea which is a mixture of creation and evolution then leave out huge portions of the literal creation week account which is accomplished over six literal 24 hour days concluding with a final seventh, literal 24 hour day of rest
So you said “according to Genesis the world was already here, It just started out covered by water, which may account for the distribution of things being on top of mountains”
That is certainly not what Genesis describes at all Howard. I’d like to keep this post as short and to the point as possible, however, I have to post the incredible information you left out, which you’ve obviously omitted in order to fit your personal belief about the creation explanation.
There are three possibilities Howard.
1) God created everything exactly as described in the Holy Bible.
2) “Nothing” exploded, completely disobeying causality, and became time, space, matter, and eventually, life.
3) Any number of combinations of creation and exploding nothing stories.
You’ve chosen #3, and have your own version of Genesis 1 mixed in with the Godless evolution story.
Here’s what the actual Genesis account actually says –
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness.5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. not millions or billions of years.
6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.
And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.
11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.
Your comment “Before this go around, there appears to have been many millions of years unaccounted for.in Scriptures.” is interesting Howard. Exactly what in scriptures led you to conclude there was missing “millions” of years? There is nothing in all the Bible which alludes to missing millions of years, that is YOUR assumption Howard. You’ve made the huge mistake of assuming God was an evolutionists. God quite clearly made very strong statements which make millions and billions of years out of the question. God very clearly delineated 6 – 24 hour days of creation along with details of specific forms of biological life He created on which specific day.
But God also added a very revealing detail along with each specific life form. Very few people, in fact, I am the only person I’ve ever seen who has noticed this specific comment God included with each of the biological life forms He created,,,have you noticed this Howard?
Look here – Starting on day three God created the first biological life – “Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.
Here’s another curious detail which makes the evolutionary explanation seem foolish. God created vegetation, plants, trees etc on day three. But didn’t create the sun until day four Howard. Do you see how this creates a serious dilemma for the insertion of millions or billions of years into God’s literal 6 days of literal creation Howard? Plants and trees can go quite a while without sun, but after just a few weeks you’d see mass die offs Howard. What would be left after millions of years?
God created it all in six literal days Howard, otherwise it just does not work. You cannot add in your “missing” evolutionary millions of years.
And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.” 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. Day five
And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds.
Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the fac.e of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.
The entire creation week is absolutely clear Howard. God said He created it all in one literal week. He even went out of His way to actually state the seperate days – what He created on each day, and even the number of the day! God does this, and yet man still insists it is wrong, that God actually didn’t mean what He said. Or perhaps God wasn’t as smart as modern man and He simply didn’t know how to express millions or billions of years?…sigh
Now, thousands of years ago when Genesis was being written down the idea of Neo Darwinian evolution hadn’t sprouted from the corrupt mind of man yet. So don’t you find it rather curious that God would go out of His way to state each of His created biological life was created “after it’s kind”? Why would God add such a curious comment?
It’s almost as if God knew something? It’s as if He knew wicked man would deny His special creation of each created life form after it’s OWN KIND and instead claim God dumped a blob of goo (single cell) which would “somehow” do something it cannot do today, and mutate billions and billions of times, and even though science admits the vast vast vast majority of mutations are detrimental, and deadly, the very,very odd mutation (which has never been observed) somehow causes a NEW life form over an unknown, never observed, assumed, hoped for period of time through an unobserved series of micro changes which are so slow that these unobserved changes cannot be observed…but the Neo Darwinians admit this has NEVER EVER been observed, but “trust us, it happens”
Jesus said we were created “men and women” right from the very beginning. I guess He was wrong also Howard?
“And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female”?
If you’re still confused, read the Genesis account again, because God says …
”
God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the fac.e of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.”
I’m not understanding what you are so confused about Howard. Exactly why do you believe in God if you don’t believe He tells the truth? Or, do you suppose the God that created the vast universe and everything within it wasn’t incapable of getting His book to us the way He wanted it? Was that too hard for God Howard?
Here you go with more Biblical denying.
“The Dinosaurs obviously did not roam around with Adam, and there is absolutely no way something that large could go unnoticed. It would make sense that the fossils are left over from a prior world. Perhaps a world that met it’s end like ours is supposed to do. Perhaps simply to make a new start. There is no telling just how many times this may have happened.”
Wow! So now you’re reading from the Bible of Howard?
Let’s take this a bit at a time Howard, and we’ll see whether the Bible is wrong, or Howard is wrong.
“The Dinosaurs obviously did not roam around with Adam, and there is absolutely no way something that large could go unnoticed”
Good point! You would think that if dinosaurs roamed concurrent with man, someone would have noticed?!
So, first of all the word “dinosaur” wasn’t around in Biblical times Howard.
Dinosaur fossils were first recognized in the 19th century. In 1842, paleontologist Richard Owen coined the term dinosaur, derived from the Greek deinos, meaning “terrible” or “fearfully great,” and sauros, meaning “lizard” or reptile.”
Now there were a LOT of “dragons” around Howard. There are thousands of descriptions of “dragons” all through history. There’s even hundreds of thousands of depictions of these “dragons” and you know what? They looked just like dinosaurs Howard! Isn’t that a bizarre coincidence?
Check this out Howard –
http://www.bible.ca/tracks/tracks-acambaro-dinos.htm
Have a good look around this site, it is absolutely packed with ancient depictions of dinosaurs, including figurines, etchings in brass plates, drawings, paintings, tapestries etc etc. They are found all throughout ancient history and all over the world. Now evolutionists will tell you ALL these depictions are fakes, of course! But when you see the depth and breadth, the incredible number of them, along with ancient historical commentary which legitimises them beyond all reasonable doubt, and you include many authentic dinosaur tracks with modern human footprints inside them, and alongside them, you would have to be a complete moron to try and convince any honest, reliable person that these have all been faked throughout thousands of years of history.
If your faith in evolution is that strong, then my question to you is – exactly what “god” do you believe in, because it is not the God of the Holy Bible Howard. That God describes at least two dinosaurs in His Holy Bible the Behemoth and Leviathan! Is God a liar also?
OK Howard, I apologise for the length of this post, I had wanted to keep it as short as possible. This is the best I could manage.
Here are a couple of scientific presentations which I am certain you will find very interesting.
This is “A Thousand Years In A Day”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Sc8zsFfqsI
“Did you know that in 1980 an eleven-year process was begun at Mt. St. Helens that epitomized on a small scale the action and results of the Great Genesis Flood…that it was proven that God could take a catastrophe and do the geological work of thousands, even millions, of years in ONE day? In this program, G. Dr. Sharp will be your guide through the seconds, minutes and days the eye-opening action of catastrophic earth slides, tidal-like waves, mud flows and other residual effects of the history-making Mt. St. Helens Catastrophe. You will see, with your own eyes, the ability of catastrophic action do the work of thousands of years…IN JUST ONE DAY!”
This is a presentation by Dr Don Patton who will take you on a journey across the planet and through history where you will see amazing, accurate depictions of dinosaurs hundreds and thousands of years old, many depicting man and dinosaur interacting! The reason you haven’t seen these is because up until recently the Neo Darwinian evolutionists have controlled this information and they decided you weren’t going to see this.
Well now you have the choice whether you want to see THE truth, or want to keep seeing YOUR truth, and if that’s the case, you won’t want to see these.
There is four hours of information here where you will see an overwhelming number of dinosaur depictions by people over a few thousand years which the carefully controlled history and science books we have in our schools will never show you.
Don Patton – Co-existence of man and dinosaurs (all 4 videos)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgrdiQgt9F4
Howard and anyone else who believes in God, but the “God” you believe in is not the God of the Holy Bible. Because that God is THE ONLY REAL ALMIGHTY GOD of eternity, and His truth IS exactly as He has told us in His Holy Bible.
“science” has altered the one real God, and to many who have been students in our Western education system, science has killed God. Or, has watered God down to the point where men such as Howard here have felt in his heart that the scientific answer “nothing” exploded and became everything – time – space – matter – life just does not ring true, and for good reason! In an effort to walk the fence, many have done what Howard here has done and have invented a “god” in their own minds which fits both explanations.
However, neither science nor God are willing to share. Where it comes to science, people who mingle god with science will be ridiculed at worst. Scientists have actually been fired! But the consequences of denying the one True Almighty God are much more serious folks.
That is why I have taken the time and made the effort here to show whoever might be at least curious, that there is real proof. There are real answers, and you can in fact trust the entire unaltered word of God, and the Holy Bible is the true word of the one True Almighty God folks. You can trust in Him, you can relay on Him. But you cannot deny Him folks. It costs nothing to take a look at the evidence I have provided here. What could the cost be for not looking?
Howard, I have made this effort for you brother, and not in a sarcastic, or condescending manner. I sense you are open to at least have a look brother.
And I’ll leave you here, and God bless you brother.
I can be reached by anyone who has questions and wants answers anytime here –
[email protected]
Jack – Canada
Jack in Canada, you are a liar. I never mentioned evolution at any time. I have never demeaned God at any time. You did most certainly scream your condescending baloney from the mountain top so as to impress everybody with your knowledge of the scriptures that most likely every commenter on this subject knows just as well as you. I have been studying it for 65 years out of my 75, you obtuse blowhard.
The fact is you and those like you want to claim credit for being such wonderful people that supposedly chose to believe for salvation, from some storehouse of knowledge outside of the gifts of God built into mankind. No one has ever had a choice as to any of his or her physical, or mental attributes. No person ever got to choose his or her race, family, earthly location, or anything at all. Yet you will get swelled up in yourself, thinking you have arrived at some sort of conclusion all on your own, and prove beyond any doubt that you are foolish.
Read slowly. There was no one around when the WORD made the world other then the Father and the Holy Spirit, if we are to believe what is written in the scriptures. So why did God wait until Moses came about to write it all down for man? Perhaps Moses simply wrote up his own ideas about how things happened. Here you will go off screaming heretic as loud as you can muster. Don’t get too carried away just yet. There is a mentioning of how the 10 commandments were supposedly given, and how the other laws came about, but nothing at all about how God explained to Moses how he created it all to start with.
You choose to take it for granted that every word in the scripture is truth for sure, but you and no one alive ever met anybody who wrote any of the scriptures. If someone wrote an article today, you would not take it at face value like you have this book. You and no one alive ever met anybody who helped compile this book, yet you scream heretic at anybody who doubts its claim of absolute truth. I call that unbelievably gullible.
Go away Jack. You have never had a thought of your own, and totally lack any ability to think outside of the box that you and all of your brainwashed minions swallow without hesitation.
There is a God. That can be arrived at logically by observing what takes place around us. I think it possible that God made a way for some of mankind to be saved for a future existence. Jesus was a real person, and he for sure was an exception to the rule as man goes. Even with all of this, I find it unlikely that Genesis is a real summary of what took place in the beginning.
Atzi the Iceman is supposed to have been alive when Methuselah was around. According to everything they can find out about the mummified corpse, he was here before, and while the supposed flood happened. Since he was frozen in ice on a mountain in Europe, it makes one wonder how he didn’t rot while the flood was covering the whole world. Since it was not supposed to have rained before the flood, I wonder how he got frozen in ice so as to be kept totally intact until modern times. The story of Genesis brings up a lot of things very difficult to explain with the modern knowledge that we have about how the Earth works. Without the system that we have today of the movement of water through rain, the Earth could not exist as a place suitable for life of any kind. yet you continue to scream your thoughtless epitaphs at anybody who dares to think of other possibilities.
Jack I am sure you probably believe your tirade that you expounded on to try and impress everyone, but I really don’t think you actually can prove any of it at all. I do not believe things came about by chance, and I don’t believe things continue to run by chance. Something, or someone controls everything that exists, and that someone has put mankind in an environment that is set up on opposition. Everything has an opposite. Light – Dark, high -low, good- bad, and so on and so forth. If there are good men, then there are bad men. I hope you are really a good man Jack, but it does not follow that anyone who differs with you is a bad person. One thing is likely, and that is God will judge both of us. Goodluck
Thank you B & E, this is an excellent follow up to your post about Bryan College,President Stephen Livesay, who is under attack for fully believing in the full creation truth from Genesis! Origins from an Eternal Elohim into nothing (us) is offending lots of people. I agree with Q’s post about the tepid belief in a local flood. Obviously worldwide. Your reference to Exodus 20:4 was a revelation to me,thanks for sharing!
Sorry, but this sounds shady to me. Genesis clearly states that the waters of the flood came from RAIN, not to subterranean sources.
Genesis 7:4 – ?For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.”
Genesis 7:12 – “And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.”
Maybe the waters went underground after the flood was over. But the bible clearly says the flood was caused by rainfall.
RC, you left out Genesis 7:11 – “In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on the same day all the fountains of the great deep burst open, and the floodgates of the sky were opened. 12 The rain fell upon the earth for forty days and forty nights.…”
“Fountais of the deep,” meaning all this underground water erupting like steam volcanoes into the atmosphere, forming vast clouds and condensing into torrents of rain for forty days.
No Q, I didn’t forget it. I didn’t list Gen. 7: 11-12 because it says: “… on the same day all the fountains of the great deep burst open, AND the floodgates of the sky were opened. The rain fell upon the earth for forty days and forty nights.…” ‘And’ being the key word IMO.
I don’t doubt that there are deep subterranean aquifers that may have contributed to the great flood. But the bible mentions rain falling for 40 days & nights as the primary cause, & that was always good enough for me. I am rather childlike in my faith when it comes to the stories in Genesis. I realized long go that science and rationality will never provide a plausible explanation for how a man could build a boat big enough to hold 2 or 7 of every species of creature on earth (even carnivores that eat other critters), plus all of Noah’s family & all the urine & feces those people and animals would produce!, yet they all managed to live together on a boat for 150+ days without becoming ill. (And Genesis makes no mention of what they used for a water supply system!) When atheists challenge me about the ark story, there is no extra-biblical evidence I can offer to support such a fantastical tale. I can only tell them that my faith in God & the reliability of His word allows me to believe what the bible says. And the story of the ark makes more sense than the big bang theory or believing that we evolved from something that crawled out of the sea.
All of which probably makes me a less-than-effective witness to nonbelievers. But I am not ashamed of my faith. I can wait until I see God face to face to get those answers.
Fair enough, RC. I will definitely vouch for the fact that skeptics cannot be reasoned with regarding the evidence or possible explanations of Biblical accounts. From a curiosity standpoint, though, it’s cool to see how recent discoveries coincide with it all.
As an architect, I read the accounts of Noa’s arch on the visions and revelations on Anne Catherine of Emmerich and is is clear that her descriptions aim at the truth. The arch had something we call today green walls, meaning planters with growing plants imbedded in the width of the wall about a foot or two in width. Picture a book case of planters that in height were apart from each other two feet. A whole arch in its length and width and separating compartments full of living plants.
Noah took more than just some months building it and roots and plants were placed there and grown within for saving those species and having enough food.
Also, look up Theresa Newman; she spent 40 years not days, years!, supported on the received communion alone. Science could not explain it, and did have many persons witnessing that she took no food and did not need to use the restroom. As her, there are so many cased documented in the whole world, of people taking no food for years, 12, 18, 15, 25 years, … that it would be too long to cite
Forget what is “Down There.” Concentrate on OTHER things that scientists have also discovered other things. Check the BLACK SEA FIND. Scientists know that about 7500 years ago there was a massive deluge, where huge amounts of water rushed into the Black Sea. Those waters changed it from a fresh water lake and made it into a salty Sea. This was a SUDDEN thing, not a gradual thing. It was not a Gradual Process, but something that occurred during a relatively short period of time. Again, check the BLACK SEA FIND. Also. check into FOSSILS that were found all over the world. Fossils of trees were found all over, in areas where they DID NOT Grow……they were uprooted and moved….this has been found all over the world. Also, fossils of seashells have been found on MOUNTAIN Tops…..Like the Rocky Mountains and the Himalayas. Fossils of WHALES have been found in Michigan. Some like to say that they were moved on glaciers. They would not have been found in the Middle of a Continent. I found this info from an article, articles that I read. I can share it with you when I found the article again. People should NOT go by ONE thing, like the bit about a mineral which contains much water……yet, combine it with OTHER things….things which scientists have found……such as the BLACK SEA FIND…..Which scientists have found out….and the fossils, such as seashells on the tops of mountains….and the fossils of whales found in Michigan……and trees that were uprooted and found in areas that they did not grow….this is worldwide……Check POLYSTRATE Fossils……..Much evidence has been found b y scientists….they do Not go by only ONE thing…..they put it all together…..Together, it makes sense.
Hello RC
Actually you need to look at Gen 8:1-2
Now God remembered Noah and every beast, and all the cattle that were with him in the Ark: therefore God made a wind to pass upon the earth, and the waters ceased.
The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained.
1599 Geneva Bible
Notice that it says the waters ceased at the end of verse 1. Two things had to happen for the water to cease, the rain was restrained and the fountains of the deep stopped. Key word for the fountains of the deep in verse 2 is stopped. Which means water had to of been coming out for it to stop, if nothing was coming out then there would be nothing to stop. So yes the fountains broke up and was spuing out water all 40 days and 40 nights along with the rain. I hope this helps on your journey to seek Gods truth through his word. God bless.
Yes, it does help, collin. Thanks ever so.
Peace & blessings,
– RC
RC, you wrote “I don’t doubt that there are deep subterranean aquifers that may have contributed to the great flood. But the bible mentions rain falling for 40 days & nights as the primary cause, & that was always good enough for me. I am rather childlike in my faith when it comes to the stories in Genesis. I realized long go that science and rationality will never provide a plausible explanation for how a man could build a boat big enough to hold 2 or 7 of every species of creature on earth (even carnivores that eat other critters), plus all of Noah’s family & all the urine & feces those people and animals would produce!, yet they all managed to live together on a boat for 150+ days without becoming ill. (And Genesis makes no mention of what they used for a water supply system!) When atheists challenge me about the ark story, there is no extra-biblical evidence I can offer to support such a fantastical tale. I can only tell them that my faith in God & the reliability of His word allows me to believe what the bible says. And the story of the ark makes more sense than the big bang theory or believing that we evolved from something that crawled out of the sea.
All of which probably makes me a less-than-effective witness to nonbelievers. But I am not ashamed of my faith. I can wait until I see God face to face to get those answers.”
First, the scriptures say that at least 2 of every KIND were entered into the ark. Kind represents more of a Family level of bio-categorization rather than the species level. In other words, there was the dog kind and the cat kind…. from which all the dog and cat species we have today descended from. This reduces the amt of animals they had to take with them. Add to this the contention that they only needed to load the juveniles of various large kinds, such as dinosaurs (even T-Rex’s), elephants, giraffes, and so on.
And since the Bible states that all humans and animals were vegetarian till then, there would not have been any problem with what today are meat eaters. And if you still have issues with this, go to the creation.com or answersingenesis.com websites for more explanation. They might also answer your water supply/sanitation questions as well.
The point is, there are answers (some of which are scientifically valid thanks to a number of PhD’d Creationists) you can give to skeptics and evolutionists, without like your faith is just a blind faith.
ooops…
This last paragraph “The point is, there are answers (some of which are scientifically valid thanks to a number of PhD’d Creationists) you can give to skeptics and evolutionists, without like your faith is just a blind faith”
should read as:
The point is, there are answers (some of which are scientifically valid thanks to a number of PhD’d Creationists) you can give to skeptics and evolutionists, without your faith looking blind.
Edward,
Thanks for those links!
Peace & Blessings,
– RC
Read Genesis 7:11
Genisis 7:11Parallel Verses
New International Version
In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, on the seventeenth day of the second month–on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.
New Living Translation
When Noah was 600 years old, on the seventeenth day of the second month, all the underground waters erupted from the earth, and the rain fell in mighty torrents from the sky.
English Standard Version
In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.
New American Standard Bible
In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on the same day all the fountains of the great deep burst open, and the floodgates of the sky were opened.
King James Bible
In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened
The beauty of the Bible…plain truths hidden in plain sight.
Mark 4:12
That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
Jessica, great reference and so true! Amazing how something so simple and obvious can be so often overlooked by so many…
Prynhawn da/Good afternoon and Hi
Hi B&E
I think you are going a bit too far, to suggest that water below the surface of the earth, proves a biblical myth. No sane scientist would claim such idiocy, its a fact of Nature, not a heavenly manifestation that there is water beneath out feet. Almost every country in the world has water beneath its lands, man from immemorial has harvest this water in one form or another, from water-table to wells, borehole to aquifers, and not to forget man has come up against water when mining for oil, coal, minerals, and ore, etc I myself live on the great Morfa (fen), where the water-table is just beneath the surface, it has only to rain and the water will rise above ground. Not only that my government through it flood agency, has got me down as being at flood risk, due in part to the water-table and because my home is below, low tide.
The Ogallala aquifer, located beneath the great plains in USA, is one of the world largest aquifers, and it is being harvested at an alarming rate, with probable problem for future generations.
To say that the water below ground is conformation of the Bible story, beggars belief. It was only in the 1950’s and 60’s that the creationist spurned the thought of Dinosaurs, yet nowadays it has moved the goal-post in its favour, to say now, God created dinosaurs in the life of man, what rubbish to suit a radical religious dogma. However, the story of man on earth is just a second in evolutionary time, for man and his ancestry goes back further, even before Homo Erectus, who lived 1.8 million years ago, and that is longer than your Bible stories!
Cofion (regards)
Jero Jones, Mab Cymru
Hi Jero,
With all due respect, you once again have the facts completely wrong. This has nothing to do with aquifers or well water. An aquifer on average is 30-100 feet below the surface. The water in the transition zone of the Earth’s mantle, which is the area at issue in this article is over 400 KILOMETERS below the surface of the Earth.
These are depths we are prsently unable to drill to. There is absolutely no chance that a mining team could ever hit this water. Hence the discovery of the ringwoodite being so significant.
I would recommend reading the source article in Science Daily carefully. Because you are really off-base and have misunderstood this article. Once again in your zeal to attack the faith of Jesus Christ, you have completely gotten the facts incorrect. The discovery indeed confirms what the Bible stated 3,500 years ago.
Bore da/Good morning and Hi
Hi B&E
You are correct, I did not read your article fully, as there was no need, I read the article on Ringwoodite before making my comment. The water (ringwoodite) you claim to be of biblical creation, is in fact made from meteor strikes that hit the earth billions of years ago during its formation.
http://www.thealmagest.com/earths-core-is-not-as-hot-as-everyone-thought-it-is-new-finding-suggest/11105
Cofion (regards)
Jero Jones, Mab Cymru
Hi Jero,
I have to repeat myself – you do not have the facts straight at all. This the consistent pattern with your posts. This is another perfect example . You wrote:
“You are correct, I did not read your article fully, as there was no need, I read the article on Ringwoodite before making my comment. The water (ringwoodite) you claim to be of biblical creation, is in fact made from meteor strikes that hit the earth billions of years ago during its formation.”
Yet the article you cite says this:
“The particular piece, which most woman would love to have, encompasses an extremely rare, dense mineral called ringwoodite, says a team of scientists headed by Graham Pearson of Alberta University in their paper published in Nature.
And inside that ringwoodite is composed of a great deal of water, which is locked inside.
Because of the fact that ringwoodite can only be created deep in the earth under terrific pressure, researchers conclude that water was there locked in the rocks of deep earth.While it seems the Earth’s thin mantle doesn’t hold much water, the transition zone, which lies between 400 and 660 kilometers deep, could hold a vast amount of water that is recycled from the surface.”
The article you cite complete supports everything this article says – namely that the presence of water in ringwoodite is proof that large amoutns of water exists well below the Earth’s surface. Your article even quotes the same scientist who was quoted in Science Daily. So rather than refuting my point, you are just providing more support for it.
But I do give you credit for admitting you did not read our article fully before responding. Once again, in your zeal to attack God, you have instead ended up showing your own error.
Bore da/Good morning and Hi
Hi B&E
I did admit that I did not read all your comments, as I said, I read the topic on the site you say complete supports everything in your article. Well your article/post does not mention that ringwoodite comes from Meteorites. Then clearly, you did not read my citation properly, as there is a paragraph (second from last which reads: Ringwoodite, which is a complex form of the common greenish rock olivine, COMES FROM METEORITES, by the way. Now, it might come from the bowels of the planet or otherwise, any water it contains isn’t sloshing about, it’s in hydroxide form.
You will also see that the water is in a hydroxide form HOᐨ and not H₂O.
I rest my case.
Cofion (regards)
Jero Jones, Mab Cymru
Hi Hero
I think maybe you should keep reading the article Jero. It says they only reason they found them is because they were finally able to get down a depth where they haven’t been able to before. The mineral was found very deep beneath the earth’s crust, this mineral could not have been put on the earth by a meteor or asteroid. This is not to say that the mineral can’t be found on meteors or asteroids. In fact a lot of the same minerals are found on floating rocks in space, that are natural to earth. Does this mean that the ringwoodite comes from meteors, no sir. It just means that they only thought that it came from space because they hadn’t found it on earth yet. Again if you read the whole article, you will get my point. As long as you know that all things were created by God and for God, then I guess it really doesnt matter where the ringwoodite comes from. May grace, peace and mercy be multiplied unto you from God our the Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.
Colossians 1:16 1599 Geneva Bible
For by him were all things created which are in heaven, and which are in earth, things visible and invisible: whether they be Thrones, or Dominions, or Principalities, or Powers, all things were created by him, and for him.
Haeljlulah! I needed this-you’re my savior.
I love how you claim to know what “sane scientists” believe, as though scientists are this monolithical group-think entity.
Jero, if you actually paid attention, you would realize this involves water between 400-660 km beneath the surface, far below the reservoirs you’re referencing, and that the amount of water is greater than all the world’s oceans combined — more than enough to flood the earth.
The fact you must learn to deal with, my friend, is with each and every discovery your “sane scientists” make, they draw closer and closer to the truth of God’s word as handed down to us from ancient times, conceived longus beforus your Dearus Erectus.
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@B & E – I have a Biblical question. I think Romans 1:18-25 talks about atheists. But then verse 27 says, “For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections…” It doesn’t really make sense to me because I’ve seen plenty of atheists who are not gay.
Hello Summergirl
Although I do not work for or represent [email protected], I feel the Holy Spirit telling me to answer you. First let me start by saying grace , peace and mercy be unto you from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior. It’s great that you are seeking wisdom and truth from the word of God to instruct you in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16).
As for your question. Verses 18-25 doesn’t just talk about atheists, but all unrighteousness and all the ungodly(Romans 1:18). It also makes it clear that his eternal power and Godhead are seen by the creation of the world (Romans 1:20). Now in verse 26-27(I’m using a 1599 Geneva Bible so my verse numbers might be slightly different than yours), it says ” God gave them up to vile affections”, just like yours, and yes it does talk about the men sleeping with men and women with the women. But that is only part of the ungodly and unrighteousness sinners, if you keep reading, it talks about the murder, and hate, and envy, and the backbiters and haters of God (Romans 1:28-30). God didn’t just give them up to homosexuality sin but also to wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness, and deceit (Romans 1:29). So you are right, not all atheists, or unbelievers, or preachers of false doctrine are gay, but just the same, they need the love of Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior, and we need to show that love (1 John 4:7-12). I hope this helps on you walk with Jesus Christ and with his true word which is the power of God.
Romans 1:16 1599 Geneva Bible
For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth, to the Jew first, and also to the Grecian.
Thanks for the reply.
Hey Summergirl –
Thanks for your very good question. I agree with Collin that the subject of that passage in verse 18 is “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;”. The passage is addressing all who reject God, not just atheists. We receive confirmation of this in verse 25 which states: “Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.” So this can be people all other faiths and pagan beliefs. And even many atheists worship themselves as God or elevate the idea of humanity to godhood (the humanist movement).
So when we get to the list of sins and “vile affections” The Lord turns them over to, the various sins apply to those individual people in different ways. It is not a blanket assertion that all non-believers will be gay.
What this passage does explain is that from a Biblical standpoint, homosexuality is the result of sinful rebellion and the sin nature. And it is not a product of genetics or “God making a person that way” (not that there is any scientific support for a “gay gene” anyway). So for those who are gay, as “natural” as it may seem, it is only because our nature from birth is prone to sin and rebellion and for them it has manifested in their sexual desires. Hope that clears things up. God bless.
Yeah that definitely cleared things up. I guess what threw me off was when I heard a pastor quote Romans 1:20-22 when talking about atheists who believed in evolution.
Ah, I see. Well I of course don’t know how your Pastor interpreted that passage, but the way I read it, is that the Bible is explaining that even the atheists know God exists. It is just that in their rebellion the create their own theories to refute and attack The Lord. But that passage also applies to people of other faiths and beliefs as well.
There are more kinds of sodomy than just homosexuality. It is almost unheard of for unbelievers never to practice contraception, which defiles even the marriage bed with vile passions.`
B&E
Are the links posted within the article from anyone or establishment that might have a Christian bias?
Hi RDK,
The main article (detailing the discovery of the ringwoodite and the confirmation of massive amounts of water) are from a secular science website. The more detailed explanation from Gaines Johnson is from a Christian website. However, please note that he is a geologist and not a lay person these issues. He being a Christian should not reflect on the substance of his scientific observations any more than atheist scientist shouldn’t be judged in advance as having “an agenda.” Just something to consider. God bless.
Hi, If I have to believe in the creation story, is that meant God created the dinosaurs on the sixth day? Can you please explain.
Hi Lui,
It is not my belief that the Earth is 6,000 years old (although I absolutely believe humanity is roughly 6,000 years old started with our parents, Adam and Eve). The Bible does not state the age of the Earth. So it is very possible (and my belief) that dinosaurs were extinct well before the flood. Of course in the instance that dinosaurs were on the flood, be mindful of two facts: 1) most dinosaurs were between the size of dogs and horses and not the enormous creatures we often see in pop culture and 2) even in the case of the big dinosaurs, like a T-Rex, they could have been brought on as newborns in which their size would not be an issue at all.
Hello,
Here is a series of creation seminars by Dr. Kent Hovind about dinosaurs, flood and the age of the earth. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6-cVj-ZRivqKeqAklhYfFFmmAdvwcnCT
This might change your stance on the age of the earth.
Thank you for the response.
I just have a few questions due to human intelligent, not religion or science:
1-Let assume that their is a global flood and every body died, except The righteously Noah’s family and whole bunch of animals.
2-Humanity re-start from that point in earth history.
So with 7 billions people on earth now, should we all speak Hebrew and since we are all children of Noah ?? Why we are, as brothers and sisters ! We still want to kill each other as what we are seeing in Middle East.
So red,yellow,black, brown and white, are we supposed to have the same race and the same GOD.
Am i going crazy or getting stupid????
The reason for different languages is explained in the chapters of Genesis, with the story of the Tower of Babel.
Genesis 11:
“Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. 2 As people moved eastward, they found a plain in Shinar and settled there.
3 They said to each other, “Come, let’s make bricks and bake them thoroughly.” They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar. 4 Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.”
5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. 6 The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”
8 So the Lord scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. 9 That is why it was called Babel—because there the Lord confused the language of the whole world. From there the Lord scattered them over the face of the whole earth.”
So as you see, there was indeed one world language right after the flood of Noah. However, God created many different languages to confound the wisdom of men.
Hi Peter,
You said,
Am I going crazy or getting stupid????
You are not crazy or stupid, just misinformed. Just like Kakumei said, you must keep reading Genesis and all your questions will be answered my brother. I pray that you will keep reading God’s word, it is truth my brother. God bless.
Hi Peter,
As Kakumei pointed out, the world did indeed speak one language until the Tower of Babel rebellion.
I wanted to thank you for this excellent read!!
I certainly enjoyed every little bit of it.
I have got you book marked to look at new stuff you post…
While it is quite possible that it never rained until the day of the flood, the Bible does not confirm this as so many continually state (like in this article). When Genesis states that a mist rose up from the ground, this in/around the beginning, which was several hundred years previous to Noah floating his boat, and a careful read of the texts shows that nowhere in no way does the Bible say that the earth remained in that exact state of rainlessness up until God caused the flood.
Like I said, it is possible that that was the case. We can even lay out plausible arguments as to why we think it is so – but we do not have license to state it as Biblical fact!
And anytime we overstep what the Bible definitively states, we place ourselves in a higher position of authority than we belong (and we give ammunition to skeptics who look for things like this to attack our faith with, and doubts to believers who dig deeply into the word to learn as much as they may).
To Loren Sanders: This is a very well said statement. Reading Genesis that doesn’t provide much information and we jump too quckly saying, it has to be this way because this bible says so. We have to be careful not to claim this is so, because we can lose many non Christians that way. The writer who wrote in Genesis had to start out the book, so he can talk more about who God is and who Jesus, the Son will be later and how God will save us from sin. I believe in God and science. You Christians, be very careful in what you say and how you say it. Thank you to Loren Sanders for you wisdom in your statement.
The Atlantic ocean has an average depth of 10K feet while the Pacific ocean an average depth of 15K feet. So, it is conceivable when the great depths were broken up during the Flood thus releasing the water trapped in the Earth’s mantel, it came up through the Atlantic trench (that runs North-South up and down the Atlantic ocean), and thus seperated the Europe/Africa continents from the North/South-American continents. Meaning that before the Flood, the area of the Pacific ocean could still have been filled with as much as 5K feet of water before the additional water came up during the flood. And this means the Americas could be connected to Europ/Africa over dry before the Flood. In other words, the American continental plate and Europe/African plates did not have to move that far apart to seperate them by the days of Peleg, after the flood when God divided the earth.
The fountains of the great deep were in the same great deep is mentioned at the very beginning, were it said ” darkness was upon the face of the deep.” If the great deep was under ground, there would be no need to say it was dark there. The great deep is referring to the sky, that had no stars, moon, or sun at that point in time. The fountains were broken, the flood gates of heaven were opened, AND it rained. Simply explaining the phenomenon of rain.
This is only one small part of the scriptures, that nearly all of the Christian world does not understand at all. You have been taught ignorance by those who are ignorant. Open your eyes and dare to look at what the Scriptures actually say. I heard one believer say that he did not think God intended for mankind to understand all of what the scriptures say. That is ridiculous. There would have been no reason to create an account of what was and what is, and explain the way of things, if no one could understand it. Dare to read the scriptures with an open mind, rather then the be hindered by the ignorance of those who themselves are hindered by the ignorance of those before them.
Wake up. God is not somebody who gets blindsided by the accuser of mankind every time he turns around. Nothing happens unless it goes across his desk first. It is all preordained, predestined, and it will happen just that way, regardless of your being able to understand any of it.
Hi Clark,
Thanks for your comments. However, respectfully I disagree. You stated:
I do not see Biblical support for your interpretation. I will provide some passages from Scripture that support the deep being water beneath the surface of the Earth:
In all these passages, in context, the deep is referenced as being “beneath” and “under” the surface of the Earth. The Nehemiah passage is particularly instructive, because it is referencing a specific historical event, the plunging of Pharoah and his armies into the Red Sea. We know exactly what happened in that event so the use of the phrase “the deep” contextually clearly indicates that it is water, not outer space.
Thanks again for your comments. If you have any other comments on this issue or any other they are more than welcome. God bless. -B&E
I am obviously not going to change your mind, even though the word deep was used differently in every scripture that you presented. I will say that your theory will not provide saving faith anymore then mine. Faith is the gift of God, and those who have it were decided upon before the foundations of the world. I personally think you view things a certain way to bolster your own faith. Of course that means nothing, since only God looks on the heart.
It should be obvious that some people did not receive the love of the truth, as the book of Hebrews states. Perhaps somewhere in the life span of those who do not believe, God will do something to change that. I don’t think he has asked either of us for our opinions concerning to whom he extends the gift of faith. Of course it is not out of the realm of possibility that he could use any portion of the scriptures to achieve what he wants.
I am glad you believe, regardless of any theories that might not hold ( water ).
Hi Clark,
It’s not about changing my mind. It’s about rightly dividing Scripture. If you can point to texts that support your interpretation, please offer them. If you feel that I have misinterpreted the verses I listed, please correct me. I am always open to Biblical correction. But I sincerely see no reference to “the deep” as outer space in Scripture. If you see differently please point out those verses. At the end of the day, I can have 1,000 theories but all that matters is what God’s Word says. -B&E
Gen. 49-15 was one of your examples. I do not see your interpretation in that scripture. In this scripture the deep that lies under, is talking about water that lies under the heavens. Probably the ocean.
Deut. 33-13 is again talking about water under heaven, not water under the earth. It speaks of heaven and then of the deep that coucheth beneath.
The 3rd one Neh. 9;10-11, is obviously talking about the red sea instead of some underground springs.
As I said, it is obvious to me that the word is used to describe water, wherever it is perceived to be.
I say again, that in the creation, and in the flood, the word was used to describe a place that was thought to have a great body of water in it. The sky was that place, because the writer did not understand how the system worked.
Of course you will now say that God was the writer, and therefore he knew everything, but it is borne out time after time, that those who actually wrote down the scriptures, did not understand the science that was involved in the process of raining, and many other things.
Ezekiel is a good example. He described the things that he saw, but he did so with the knowledge of his time. Today it would have been totally different.
Like I stated, I can not persuade you, because you are looking at it completely different when you interpret those scriptures. I say you are wrong, and you say the same of me. I am satisfied that we are at an impasse, and I am ok with that. It is nothing new to me. Many years of misunderstandings have made an indelible mark on the church, and those who believe that they are correct. I am no less sure of my interpretations then you are. I am ok with leaving it at that. Have a great day.
Hi Clark,
I still do not see any reference to outerspace in these verses. but just so there is no confusion with reference to Nehemiah 9:10-11 – the passage is discussing the deep, that is clear. But Genesis discusses the “fountains of the deep”:
The breaking open of these fountains was the supernatural event that brought forth the subterennean waters to the surface. And after the flood the fountains were restrained.
So subsequent references to the deep won’t be precisely the ssame in this regard. And none of this makes any reference to outer space. I don’t see any confusion about science in the description of the flood as recorded by Moses. If you can point out the outer space references or the scienfitic errors that are recorded I would be happy to look at them. -B&E
OK One more try at this. Genesis 1 Moses of course is the writer. As much as you want this to be totally accurate, it is written from his view point just as all of the bible is written by all of it’s contributors. It is described the way he sees things in his mind.
In the beginning God created the heaven and the Earth, and the EARTH was without form and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the spirit of god moved upon the face of the waters. Obviously the word earth here was used to describe the planet, not the ground itself, since that did not happen until the 9th verse. The deep apparently was speaking about the water itself, since that was all that was apparent until the 9th chpt.
The next 3 verses are dealing with light, which is not explainable, because the Sun was not created yet, in Moses’s rendition of how things happened. That does not happen until the 4th day. So to keep from getting side tracked, let us jump to the 6th verse. MOSES writes. And God said, let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament, and it was so. And God called the FIRMAMENT HEAVEN. — Now we have a firmament called heaven, that has water on both the upper and lower sides of it. Notice it does not say that firmament was EARTH. It is obvious that Moses thinks there is a lot of water up above the sky, or the heaven. That being the case, it is reasonable to think that he is speaking of that water when he says the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the floodgates of heaven were opened, and it RAINED.
9th verse. And God said, let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto (ONE) place, and let the dry land appear; and it was so.—- So now we have the land, or what we call earth today. The fourth day deals with the creation of the Sun, and Moon, and the stars, which appears to be about 3 days late, since day and night had been observed for 3 days already.
Let us jump over to the 2nd. chpt. of genesis, where man had been created, and put in the garden of Eden. Here it states that God had not caused it to rain, yet a RIVER went out of Eden and watered the garden, and split into 4 heads of other rivers. It names those rivers, and we can recognize some of them today. We know that a river is a stream that is fed by smaller tributaries, that drain the rain off of the higher grounds. Of course we are led to believe by the former scriptures, that it had not rained, and it is believed by most followers of the bible, that it did not rain until the great flood. Of course this is all from Moses’s point of view, which probably does not take into consideration the things that we know to be true today. Then of course it could mean that God had not caused it to rain in the garden of EDEN, but since something had to make those rivers, it had perhaps rained everywhere else.
Now we are faced with some problems that the scenario which Moses creates with his writings, that we can’t solve with the knowledge we have today of how the planet works. You are put in a position where you have to consider Moses’s rendition as very inadequate, or God having to do something behind the scenes, that does not fit the known science of today.
We can accept by faith, that God created all things, by his spoken WORD, and Jesus was his WORD that became flesh, and walked upon the Earth. Since God has never been seen by man, according to scripture, the word had to be who Adam walked and talked to in the garden, or we can depend upon a writing that is inadequate to base or beliefs on. In my heart I know that the creator of all things can best be described by the laws of physics. Those laws govern all of creation. Of course we say God does that. Of course you now see my point regarding the description of God.
To sum up all of my meandering through this section of the scriptures, I wrote it all to make the point, that the writings of mortal man cannot, and do not stand the close inspection that we can put it to from today’s perspective. Those writers were hampered by their lack of knowledge, and more then likely those of us who try to explain our surroundings today, will be found lacking sometime in the future. None of this negates what we can see by looking around us. It is still just as obvious today, as it was in the beginning, that someone created everything we can see and the things we cannot see. Exactly how, will remain a mystery for the time being. Perhaps God will let us in on the mystery when we see him face to face. Clark
Awesome read! I would like to know, however, what you use to base your belief that the dinosaurs may have been extinct long before the flood in your reply to Lui. I ask because after hearing the explanation that dinosaurs were in their youth while on the ark, it made sense to me. I had never heard the theory that perhaps they were already extinct.
Hi K. Dabvis – Thanks for your question. In Genesis 1, we find the Earth in state of chaos:
Why was the Earth in this condition of being completely flooded? It seems to be in a very similar state to the Earth after the flood of Noah’s day:
Notice that the world was in a chaotic, water-flooded state here because of judgment of God. Interestingly, Genesis chapter 7 uses similar phrasing as Genesis 1:2:
In the book of Isaiah we are told God formed the Earth to be inhabited: “For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; and there is none else.” (Isaiah 45:19).
But the earth we see in Genesis 1:2 is “without form”. The Hebrew word is the exact same one from Isaiah 45:19. So this again gives a subtle implication that something took place before the creation of humanity that led the Earth to be without form, as opposed to being created formless (which would contradict Isaiah 45:19).
We also know with certainty that there were at least events in the angelic realm before the creation of humanity:
Angels sang in praise of God when the Earth was created which means inherently that their existence predates humanity. So again, it is possible that some events took place on this newly created Earth before Adam.
One more thing for your consideration – in Genesis 1 God makes animals and plants after “his kind.” The Bible is very specific in its emphasis that all creation was being done according to their strict genetic family. God repeats these instructions to Noah before the flood of Genesis 7:
Why was this stressed to Noah? What was significant about this directive “after his kind”? I would submit that in the days of Noah there were all sorts of hyrbid creatures on the Earth after the invasion of fallen angelic beings who took human wives in Genesis 6. The genetic order of the Earth was severely out of whack in the days of Noah. And thus creatures who were never intended by God were not brought on to the ark. It was a return to the natural order God intended. So in Genesis 1 it’s interesting that these details are already present.
Again, I offer this for prayerful consideration. I am not dogmatic about dinosaurs in the Bible at all. As I said in my comment to Lui – even if dinosaurs were on the ark, it is something totally feasible from a Biblical and scientific standpoint. God bless. -B&E
great explanation. You cited Genesis 1:2 “And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.”
I agree that it appears that water was already present and that the waters covered all the earth which is why God had to dvide them to expose the dry land. BUT Genesis 1:3 says, “And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.”
Your theory doesn’t explain why there was total darkness and no light at all.
I hate to digress from your original topic by discussing this new topic. Is there perhaps Ann email address where we can continue our discussion without diverting attention from the original?
Hi K. Davis,
Thanks for the comments. Darkness all throughout Scripture is a sign of God’s judgment and His imposing and frightening presence when He visits:
So going by Scripture, there is ample support that the world we see in Genesis 1:2 is one that has suffered judgment of God – flooded and in darkness. These are both clear signs of God arriving to judge. And in verse 3, God in His mercy, allows His divine light to return to the judged world. The Holy Spirit then moves along the waters and the one week process of restoration culminating with the creation of man begins.
[All this is a parallel to the human condition by the way – we are born in sin (spiritual darkness) until the light of God’s Gospel shines in our hearts and soon we are redeemed and made a new creature in Christ and declared “very good” through His atoning work on the cross and the Holy Spirit moving in us to refine us and make us better servants to The Lord.]
Thanks for correctly pointing out that the land was already there in Genesis 1. The water was merely restrained to a level to allow land to show itself again. Similar to the flood of Genesis 7.
Feel free to comment here or email at contact(at)beginningandend.com Either is fine with me. God bless you abundantly. – B&E
Okay. So, ive read your response, and I love your scriptural evidence to back up your theory. (Very well versed in the scriptures). However, Here’s my lingering question. Are you saying that the genesis 1 account is the result of Noah’s flood or that it is similar to Noah’s flood? I can agree to the latter, but it’s the former that has me scratching my head in disagreement.
Hi K.Davis – The flooded state of the Earth predated the creation of humanity so naturally it was before the time of Noah. I point to the parallels with Noah to demonstrate that something happened to the Earth in Genesis 1:2. It is not my belef that The Lord created it that way. What happens in Genesis 7 is a second judgment of the Earth with water. I hope that clarifies my point. God bless you abundantly. -B&E
Whoever stated that it was impossible for the earth to have been flooded by these “geysers” or “wet spots” must be either tragically misinformed, illiterate or just plain unimaginative. The author of this article stated originally that in ONE of these wet spots it could contain more water than all the ocean’s water combined. That doesn’t take into consideration how many other wet spots similar to the one they believed they found there might be. If there are at least 3-4 more wet spots similar to that one that would more than account for all of the water that flooded the earth.
Do not throw around numbers, facts and figures before you take time to consider the relevant information in front of you. You barely read the article, got emotional because God didn’t save your kitty when you were 5 and jumped to conclusions before having any really conclusive evidence. If you wish to be considered an intellectual please consider all of the information that is in front of you before you insult others intelligence. I’m not even saying you’re wrong about the amount of water it would require. You’re 100% correct it would require that much water. Which is why the author of the article repeatedly stated it would require much more water than the earth presently sustains.
Please read the article in its entirety and then feel free to ignorantly insult whomever you wish. The theory of evolution doesn’t insult me. Nor does the theory that the earth is 6.5 billion years old. (Btw the earth’s age in the opinion of science increases several millions of years every time they find evidence that is contrary to the theory of evolution) What insults me to the core is the amount of ignorance that spouts over something as simple as one sharing their beliefs with another or one presenting what they consider to be relevant facts of their religion’s faith. Does anyone condemn evolutionists every time they find a monkey’s femur and combine it with that of the skeletal remains of a man with Benjamin Button’s disease from several thousands of years ago and call it another “missing link?”
While I am sure it requires quite a bit of imagination to assume there is a supreme being who created the earth and set everything in order that currently is; I find it requires much more imagination to assume complex, organized life came into being by random chance as if your dresser built itself. Or the food that you eat on a regular basis prepared itself and placed itself into stomach all as a happening of random chance. This violates all of the entropy laws. To accept evolution one must first abandon the laws of entropy. However, entropy is a law as absolute as the law of gravity (whether Gravity is the result of planetary forces or electromagnetism as some theorize) therefore, evolution must go. The flood is a scientific fact that cultures around the world document and nature itself testifies to. Accept it and move on. You have no trouble with gravity or entropy, I’m sure. A flood is required for an ice age to happen in my opinion anyways. There are much more relevant facts to be debated such as why the speed of light seems to observably be slowing down? Why time in the past seems to be significantly different than time is now? Why electrons seem to either know what all other electrons are doing or, seem to have developed a sophisticated communication system by which they can communicate to other electrons what they are doing and tell when they at being observed? Ask better questions. There is no longer a need to debate facts.
“Fountains of the deep” (and deep just means the deep parts of seas and oceans) sounds to me like Biblical symbolism that means a tsunami. Tsunamis are caused by undersea earthquakes which are caused by the tectonic plates under the deep ocean shifting. If “windows of heaven” doesn’t have to be taken literally (and it doesn’t – that phrase means the sky/our atmosphere/ what the Hebrews called the first heaven-the Sky/ 2nd heaven is outer space and 3rd heaven is the Throne Room (where God resides) and we go at death if we are born again, then “fountains” sounds poetically like huge gushes of water like a tidal wave or tsunami.
Even by the God of thy father, who shall help thee; and by the Almighty, who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb: – Genesis 49:15.
That can be interpreted as “blessings of (the 3rd heaven/God’s Residence from where ALL blessings flow actually “every good thing is from ABOVE”). My point is when the Bible (English read) says heaven we must always ask ourselves “which heaven” is meant in this particular verse. The Bible speaks of 3 Heavens: the earths atmosphere, deep outer space, and the 3rd Heaven that Paul references, ie. “I know a man who was caught up to the third heaven/Paradise”. Soooooo, “blessings of the deep that lieth UNDER” could be referencing” outer space. Does not the sun bless us? Yes, without the Sun all life would cease. The great lights were created to bless the Earth. The stars bless us too. Didn’t God say He created them to show us signs (the Bethlehem Star certainly was a blessing!) and show us the seasons. So the deep could be the place where the moon, sun and stars are. So the sun blesses us with life so plants can grow to feed us, the moon controls tides, and the stars show seasons. This passage is establishing the point of blessings that aid us. Even the very next sentence continues this thought! The womb us where the blessing of life grows and the breasts then afterwards nourishes that new baby’s survival, hence the whole concept of blessings is the point here. How would 400 foot deep water (you call it the transitional area?) bless us? It wouldn’t.
And shewedst signs and wonders upon Pharaoh, and on all his servants, and on all the people of his land: for thou knewest that they dealt proudly against them. So didst thou get thee a name, as it is this day. 11 And thou didst divide the sea before them, so that they went through the midst of the sea on the dry land; and their persecutors thou threwest into the deeps, as a stone into the mighty waters. – Nehemeiah 9:10-11. this is clearly referring to the sea that swallowed up the Egyptian chariots, not subterranean water.
Great argument folks. I personally don’t believe scientific evidence solidifying the accounts in the bible is proving there is a God, or that he is real as many of the people in this thread are suggesting. I believe it proves quite the contrary, that there is in fact scientific explanation of the events documented in the bible and that indicates indeed a God did not cause any of it. Lol I believe the more science supports actual events of the literature (bible) it shows that no imaginary figment to the minds of 600 years old people (who clearly had their very own unique “dog years” manner of counting) who fancied unique psychedelic drugs on a daily basis to find their “inner connection to their Gods at its intensity” actually did exist or was ever real. That being said, is there harm in “believing” given the fact that at least it is a positive cult? Of course not. Is one actually to be “saved” simply because he calls upon the Lord as he looks into the sky? Of course not. He MUST be baptized! So, baptists…get with the program! 😉
Yikes. OK then. Believers should not be rejoicing in the scientific evidence supporting events of the bible. It actually proves that there is scientific explanation of events claimed to be from this imaginary God. LOL Of course the “people” from the literature (bible) are real people. But are their daily drug induced stupors claiming there are imaginary people making science happen valid? YIKES. Too much.
Yikes. OK then. Believers should not be rejoicing in the scientific evidence supporting events of the bible. It actually proves that there is scientific explanation of events claimed to be from this imaginary God. LOL Of course the “people” from the literature (bible) are real people. But are their daily drug induced stupors claiming there are imaginary people making science happen valid? YIKES. Too much.
Good Day All
Very interesting reading from both sides. Always I see that people don’t necessarily look at the information before making a decision if it has some merit. My email address is [email protected] if you wish to mail me directly.
This is because most people have their minds made up and fear change or realising their entire belief system may be wrong. So we will do or say whatever to justify what we believe.
I used to be that person. There wasn’t anything you could tell me that would change my perspective. Until one day I started looking at information without a predetermined conclusion. For example the first time someone mentioned to me that the earth could not be a round ball spinning at high speeds, I was like yeah right.
Then I got curious and did the research myself. It seems that most people posting here is only trying to make their point without seeing things from both side.
To me the person I’m not sure who male or female that posted this finding wanted to show how science is “slowly” catching up with what I believe from the information it holds to be the only truth over more than 3000 years. Yes the Bible.
I went to mosque, I was born roman catholic, then went to church, then mosque and also a hindu temple. This was my journey to find my own path and truth. Let’s face it no matter what right or wrong we all die and we gotta wonder is this the end. If not what’s next.
I believe the Bible to have correct scientific and belief information that I have yet to find someone to disprove. Most people reject the information not because of truth but rather their own opinions or those of others they trust.
Don’t believe because you have personally looks at the evidence provided and make up your own mind.
Just to prove that the Bible is the only truth. I will give some information which isn’t entirely related to this topic however its a dellusion that most of the world lives in. Even the arguments put forward above is based on the following facts given by mans science. Before I continue though I have to say that now I completely believe everything that Bible says without question if its Gods words. I just ask questions to understand it.
Your theories the non Bible believes is that we are random the universe is ever exspanding and we evolved from the ape species. If that’s so then truly how can one have laws and rules for humans but animals run free. Why did all the other apes stop evolving. If we evolved from apes how do we still have apes today. Did only a few apes evolve and the rest didn’t???
Just doesn’t hold any water for me. Regardless of believe. This is just logical thinking. Where did giants come from??? I’m pretty sure king kong didn’t evolve into a giant human being. Yet we have fossils that prove giants existed.
More so though. Is the world really a ball spinning??? Seriously consider this. Firstly no disrespect to science and all the progress but I doubt they know much about the universe or other planets etc if there is such a thing at all.
The Bible says the earth is flat. Sorry I’m not putting down the scriptures here but I’m typing on a phone so its really difficult. However a quick google search will provide all the scripture you need to verify what the Bible says about the topic. The quran like science says its a sphere. Although one scripture says that he laid the earth like a carpet muslim are desperate to line up with science and say that the Bible is wrong so they will give many other verses which they interperet as spherical. The Bhagwagetha mentions a flat earth as well. All ancient civilisations believed the earth to be flat and have ends.
No that you think I’m crazy. Let’s look at the facts that anyone without testing and sitting for hours like me researching can use to make up whether this information is correct or hold any water whatsoever.
So the earth is a ball spinning on its axis in a tilt position at about 1600kmh, then its also spinning around the sun at over 100000km per annum. And the entire solar system spins 10 times that oh and one more thing at the same time the entire universe is expanding. Also the earth rotates eastward.
If this scietific facts are true how is the following possible.
A plane travelling at 7-800kmh eastward would therefore never ever ever reach its destination. It would most likely crash after exhausting all its fuel behind the point of take off.
A plane travelling at the same speed westward should reach its destination thrice as fast. However how would it land on a runway moving faster than itself.
Millions around the world suffer from motion sickness. A car travelling at 50kmh can make them sick. If we were moving at 1600kmh they would be sick 24/7 365. That doesn’t happen.
Gravity is a false hypothesis that was created to verify and strengthen another false hypothesis of pythagoras.
There’s hundreds more of these facts but I’m not going to get into all of them. I’m just going to point out what any layman can look up and see. No scientist needed. Just logical unbias thinking.
Let’s look at the marvle that is gravity. At one point in a 24 hour cycle we are all upside down right. I’m sure you’d all agree. Lmao.
So we upside down gravity holds everything from you and I to tall buildings and the entire ocean to the surface correct. Ridiculous just picturing it in my mind now. Ok so gravity is holding all these things to the ground. Its that strong. Buuuuut it allows birds and planes to fly upside down. Lmao. Just too funny. How is that even possible. Some might argue that a plane has large engines and therefore can go against gravity. But I say dude it holds the entire ocean to the ground I think that it is stronger than a plane. So clearly gravity doesn’t exist. However weight does. If something is heavier than the atmosphere is will sink like cold air. While heated air is lighter and rises. Take a balloon fill with air from your lungs compared to helium. The heavier will sink while the lighter will rise.
Every photo I seen of the earth from space is fake. Nasa even says they have to screen the photos before its released. Just saw the latest photo by nasa a few weeks ago. The earth with not a star behind it just a black background. Seriously. And people believe man went to the moon. Lol. No we didn’t. It wasd all a big lie. Probably the biggest and longest lie in existance today. And soon it will be known to all man.
Has anyone ever felt a pull to the ground. Stand on one leg and see if the earth pulls you down. If gravity was real noone will be able to walk swim won’t be able to swim as gravity will do what they say its purpose is pull to the surface.
No scientist can prove this. No one I history has ever shown any proof that the earth spins. How can they even measure it. Yet we have to accept this information on faith that they are right. So athiest believe in something that they have no proof of and say we crazy when we have the Bible that is over 3000 years old and explanes EVERYTHING. There isn’t and answer I cannot find in the Bible that I need for science and life.
Therefore the Bible is (and I won’t say in my opinion because its fact) the true on all accounts. Therefore I understand when the B-E team or person, gets excited to see that only now science is catching up with the word of God.
I have tons more information to prove that the earth is fat. We are the center of the universe and Jesus is at the center of it all. We are set on a foundation and it cannot be moved. The sun and moon revolve around the earth. The Bible calls land earth and sea, sea. We live on a plane and have been like me for more 30 years being fed lies and more lies to cover up lies.
If anyone can show proof and not opinion to disprove what I’m saying I welcome you. However I now after many years of seeking the truth from going to mosque, temple church etc has seen truth in only one source. Yes my friend the Bible. I believe whatever it says and take it for granted as it is the Lords word.
If that sounds stupid and non scientific or logical I will still beieve. My believes will not change because as stupid as that may sound for intelligent human being to believe that the earth is ball spinning at extremely high speeds is three directions and we cannot feel, nor measure this will take a lot more faith that believing we were created.
One more thing remember if you think your a random accurance then your life has no meaning and no purpose. How do wake up everyday knowing that your an accident. Is having life then important. How do only humans feel and love the way we do and every other species doesn’t. Why have we stopped evolving???
If you really believe that your random then why does laminin the glycoprotein that holds the human body together resemble a cross. Look it up. The Bible says in Col: he is before all things and in him ALL THINGS ARE HELD TOGETHER. No because of gravity. I truly hope that anyone that reads this takes what I’m saying to task and look into it in more detail.
Its only your eternal life at stake.
Please excuse any errors (spelling, grammar etc) its the best I could do with the tools at hand.
God Bless you all and I hope to see everyone in Heaven someday.
All motion is relative. I can walk and pour coffee on a moving train just the same as standing still. In fact, if you didn’t have a window to look out of, you wouldn’t even be able to tell you were moving at all. So it is with airplanes: friction keeps the atmosphere moving at about the same speed as the ground beneath it, and so airspeed is roughly equal to ground speed. Indeed, there is a measurable Coriolis Effect, which makes a plane effectively heavier when flying westward and lighter when flying eastward. Speaking inertially, the plane is suspended by a combination of lift and orbital effects, rather than by lift alone. I concur that it was by God’s Sovereign decree that all things came into being, and by that same Word all things remain in being; that does not mean gravity isn’t real, but rather that God decrees the Scientific Laws of the Universe, just as He does the Moral Laws, and because He does not change, neither do the Laws.
this is wrong!
the fountain of the great deep is not from Earth, but outside earth!
so you are telling me, the earth cracked open pot holes, and water gushed from there? that alone is not even heavy enough to fill the whole earth!
all water 70% that filled the earth came from universe (aka great deep!)
I read a portion of this thread and its seems we are getting side tracked and missing the point behind the gospel. Whether science provides enough empirical evidence to support the story of Moses or certain stories in the bible will not and should not be the determining factor why a person should follow or pursue to understand the truth behind Christianity.
Instead of proving that Christinity exists through science why don’t we represent Christ by following in His footsteps.
He came here to serve and not to be served. He didn’t come here to boast in his good works or boast in his superior knowledge or social status but instead served a person, covered a person, healed a person, and met a person where they were at.
He revealed his love to each person in the ways that could be understood to the person he was serving. He didn’t wrestle with people but against principalities and spiritual forces that exercised control rather than practicing freedom.
Jesus moved in power and cast off demons, set captives free, raised the dead and simply loved people.
His message was simple enough for a child to understand and understandably even for the uneducated.
Love is a universal language and people often hate God because Let’s face it Christians for the last couple hundred years hasn’t done a great job replicating and exceeding the works he promised we would exceed.
The world in fact of all creation is awaiting for the sons and daughters to walk in their identity. An identity that understands who they are according to a loving Father. an identity that understands that mercy triumphs over judgement and understand that Jesus came to save the world and not condemn the world and understand Papas kindness leads to repentance and finally those that are forgiven much loves much.
The world will not be won over by fear or control or even science the world will be won over by Love 1jn 4:16.
All this argument is really trivial in the end the only thing that remains will be you guessed it love.
If love isn’t the purpose behind this thread or this article please stop and erase or get rid of it.
this will be my only post on this article
Well science and nasa is all about disproving the Bible and God. The Earth is not even a globe. Go high up enough and you’ll see the horizon as flat and no curves. It’s all over the internet. The science and the big bang was done to get everybody away from God. The elite who run the world are from the Babylon bloodline. Satan’s army basically, the Farther of lies. That is why you have the serpents tongue through the NASA logo.
In response to that, I can only say, “Hyukketyboo!!!”
I absolutely agree with this article , being a Muslim and a doctor who knows much of the scientific methods and its limitations and fallacies.
Regarding the great deep water this is also mentioned in Holy Quran, that the water gushed forth like fountains beneath the earth and rained from the sky.
It even covered the mountains.
(11:40. (So it was) till when Our command came and the oven gushed forth (water like fountains from the earth). We said: “Embark therein, of each kind two (male and female), and your family — except him against whom the Word has already gone forth — and those who believe. And none believed with him, except a few.”)
Chapter 23
(27. So, We revealed to him: “Construct the ship under Our Eyes and under Our revelation. Then, when Our command comes, and (water) gushes forth from the oven, take on board of each kind two, and your family, except those thereof against whom the Word has already gone forth. And address Me not in favor of those who have done wrong. Verily, they are to be drowned.”) (28. “And when you have embarked on the ship, you and whoever is with you, then say: `All the praise be to Allah, Who has saved us from the people who are wrongdoers.”) (29. “And say: `My Lord! Cause me to land at a blessed landing place, for You are the Best of those who bring to land.”’) (30. Verily, in this, there are indeed Ayat, for sure We are ever putting (men) to the test.)
The description of water gushing forth from the oven is actually describes the tectonics and volcanoes bursting out and releasing water from the great deep that was the beginning event of that cataclysmic flood which covered the entire earth surface including mountains and no wonder there had been drifting of continents and the present landscape of the earth.
Even the resting of Noah’s ark on mount Judy which is the exact location of it in the mountain range of Ararat.
So Bible and Quran indeed describe these in details and compliment each other.
And of course my Christian folks here would jump on to conclude that Prophet Mohammed mus Behave copied from Bible.
But this is simply and actually very untrue.
Because Bible does it mention the exact location of the Ark raged the mentions the moutains of Ararat not which exact mountain.
So the point is both books are from the Creator of the Universe.
And the atheist scientist who simply ignore out of bias and hatred certain relevant facts and cause others to belief that there is no God so that they can fool the naive general population.
Is there an echo in here?
With respect, I don’t see how the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, which in clearing-uptimes (CUT) chronology occurred around the decades preceeding Peleg ca. 350 years post-Flood, could be a source of water (a la Ringwoodite) for a Flood. The parsing you refer to does not seem obvious in the CVOT translation. I think you could only ascribe the volume of water to an Electric Universe type effect.
But the water is trapped in the rock at a molecular level. Hardly vast underwater seas as the Bible (and other older Ancient Near Eastern creation myth texts) seem to suggest.
“Planet Earth makes its own water from scratch deep in the mantle” was the article headline in the January 27, 2017, New Scientist’s Daily News
Andy Coghlan, “Planet Earth Makes Its Own Water from Scratch Deep in the Mantle,” New Scientist, January 27, 2017, https://www.newscientist.com/article/2119475-planet-earth-makes-its-own-water-from-scratch-deep-in-the-mantle/.
“A reservoir of water three times the volume of all the oceans has been discovered deep beneath the Earth’s surface. The finding could help explain where Earth’s seas came from”
Andy Coghlan, “Massive ‘Ocean’ Discovered towards Earth’s Core,” New Scientist, June 12, 2014, https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25723-massive-ocean-discovered-towards-earths-core/.
Either one has faith or one has no faith. We are not here to tell you to believe the Bible, if you have never read the Bible how could we expect to believe in the Word. The Bible reveals its own truth to those who diligently seek the truth. None so blind as those who refuse to see, or believe.
I would like to comment on this because I have already done so before, and I have heard something that might make the flood a little more believable. I still do not believe that water came up out of the ground, and I don’t believe that is what the scriptures are saying at all. It is obvious to me that the writer of Genesis believed the Earth was covered by a dome, and that a huge body of water existed in that great deep which he or she thought was above that dome. Moses is supposed to be the author of Genesis, but he does not mention how he got his information, other then when he got the 10 commandments.
Now having stated that, I did hear another fellow say that perhaps the earth was much more evenly round in the beginning, and if it were, the water in the ocean would actually be enough to cover the whole thing when the huge deep places were brought up level with the rest of the land. Now that makes real sense, but I actually doubt this whole story, especially the bit about all of the animals being on the Ark.
There are so many different kinds of animals on different continents, today, and there is no way to explain them being so selective. For instance, Australia’s animals seems to have started from something much like an Opossum, and those characteristics were handed down to each variation of animal on that continent. How did that happen, and why didn’t the other animals get started just like the Opossum? That sort of thing has no explanation.
I believe Man’s whole concept of God is entirely wrong. I believe God is really everywhere, because he is the Laws of physics, and therefore exist in every atom of everything that does exist. Paul said ( In him we move and have our being.) Mankind seems to want God in a little box so they can put him on a shelf and dictate what he can do, and what he cannot. They want supposed free will, and in reality there is no such thing. You can only make decisions with what is built in you, and you have no say over any of that. The playing field is not level, and any real thinker should be able to see that.
It is obvious when looking at the shapes of the continets , that they all fit together as one super continent at one time. Prior to the massive shift of these plates,this continent may have been much more level or flat as mountains are a result of plate tectonics. It would not take nearly the water volume to cover a land mass which is only 100 feet above sea level. If the subterranean water issued out of the center of this land mass it would roughly line up with the Mariana trench. The original land mass would have been split and forced to move due to the hydrolic pressure underneath. Just besause things “are” now does not mean they always were so. What is mysterious and unknown to us is way greater than what we can grasp now.
It seems illogical to become combative because one does not believe in God. The facts are there… something obviously happened on a cataclysmic scale.
“15 cubits (approximately 25 feet) over every mountain.” It doesn’t actually say that. It said the sea rose 15 cubits and the mountains were covered. “Mountains” are symbolic for nations. Noah had 7 days to get the animals onto the Ark. From a Biblical Historicist point of view, putting every animal on earth onto a ship that size and for that duration is pure lunacy. Did the aborigines from Australia make it onto the Ark? No, of course not. They lived on the other side of the planet yet somehow managed to survive the “global” flood that supposedly covered Mount Everest. So lets be clear. The sea rose 25 feet and nations were covered/destroyed. A quick google will show you that if the sea were to rise that amount many of todays cities would be wiped from the map. That is what happened during the time of Noah. This is backed up by accounts from ancient China of a great flood of the same time period. If the sea were to rise 25 feet it would indeed be a universal event. Most societies of the time were built along the sea of near rivers. 40 days and forty nights plus some help from underground water sources would have indeed caused horrific flooding even hundreds of miles inland. But it didn’t and could not have covered Mount Everest and killed everything on earth. It did destroy the “earth” that was know at the time of Noah. OK, what actually went into the Ark? What went on the ark was domesticated livestock of every sort available to him at the time. Unclean animals would have been horses, camels donkeys and such. Clean animals would have been cattle of every sort. Cows, goats, sheep and so on. Fowls of the air could have been domesticated fowl along with what ever they could catch. Creeping things I believe were worms. Worms live on manure breaking it down into compost. I believe many if not all of these animals were just weened animals. They couldn’t carry enough milk or produce enough milk to feed new born animals. I served on some good size ships in my younger years so I have a good idea what a ship this size could carry. Water alone for all the animals would have been a major concern. God sealed the door remember. It doesn’t say Noah drank water from outside the Ark so it must have been stored. As for the theory that the Ark was filled with lion and tigers and bears, that again is complete lunacy. They never would have been able to carry enough meat on the Ark to feed such animals. Just how do you imagine they managed to house and care for elephants, hippos, cape buffalo and grizzly bears? It’s just stupid to even contemplate it. I grew up on a farm and have some idea of the reproductive cycle of domestic livestock. If Noah released the animals from the Ark the meat eating species would have devoured the others at a rate that couldn’t be reproduced quickly enough. However, if the Ark were filled with domesticated stock which could have survived on hay and grains then things start to make actual sense. They must have taken some potted plants with them after all Noah planted a vineyard after the flood. Sit down now and figure out just how much water a calf, lamb or kid drinks in a day. Multiply that by seven months. One entire deck must have been used just for water and hay/grain. I’m sure they brought their tents and other domestic articles with them. They would need something to live in after the flood after all. That takes up space. When one looks at this in a rational perspective the fundamental evangelical theory falls apart and looks comical. Also, the Bible states the Ark came to rest upon the mountains of Ararat. It doesn’t say on the top of Mount Ararat. Could very well have been the lower foothills. Hope I have given some of you something to think about. Noah opened the door to a new land free from the evil doers of before. Free from predators so his flocks could flourish. He was indeed a rich man. Now all men on the earth were not destroyed. A good percentage yes but not all. If all men had been destroyed Noah and his sons would never have been able to repopulate the earth. What we would have eventually had is a nasty group of inbred morons walking the earth. We wouldn’t have had the peoples of South America, Africa, Asia, Europe and so on. There is much science to confirm the area Noah lived in underwent a major regional flood. Perhaps it’s time to give things a second thought. I cringe every time I hear the fundamentalists lie to children in Sunday school. But as long as people are willing to swallow what is handed to them without caring to get off the pew and study then nothing will change sorry to say.. Almost as bad as their belief that the world is 6000 years old. Fantasy.