Yet another American public school has tried to silence the voice of Christian students.
A ten year old elementary school student was told that her essay about God would not be accepted for her writing assignment and that the paper could not remain on school property.
Erica Shead, the mother of 10-year old Erin Shead said her daughter, a student at Lucy Elementary School in Millington, Tennessee was a victim of the hostility and persecution of Christianity taking place in public schools all over the country.
According to reports:
Erin Shead, a student at Lucy Elementary in Millington, Tenn., was told by her teacher to write about an idol she looked up to as part of a class assignment. The young student decided to write about God. She drew a diagram explaining why she “looked up to God,” one of the reasons being, “He is the reason I am on this earth.”
“I love [God] and Jesus, and Jesus is His earthly son. I also love Jesus,” the 10-year-old continued.
“God is my idol, I will never hate him. He will always be the number one person I look up to,” the young girl added.When Erin’s teacher received her written assignment, she told the young girl that she was prohibited from picking God as her idol, and demanded that she start the class assignment all over again and choose a new idol. She was also told that her assignment with God as her idol must be taken home and was not allowed to remain on school property. (source).
The “controversial” essay that Erin Shead was forced to remove from school property.
After having the first essay rejected, Erin then opted to make her essay about Michael Jackson, which the teacher approved. Her mother, upon finding out about this incident, took issue with the school. She went to her local TV news station to expose the anti-Christian discrimination. The station aired her story (the video is below).
“How can you tell this baby, that’s a Christian, what she can say and what she can’t say?” Erica Shead asked of the teacher’s actions. She met with the school principal Dr. Detris Cane about the incident but received no formal response on the school’s policy. Since then, the school district issued a statement to WREG –TV explaining that the actions of the teacher were not in line with school policy and that students are permitted to mention God in their school work.
Beginning and End has chronicled numerous incidents of anti-Christian discrimination in the American school system. A first grade student was forced to remove a reference to God she was reading to honor her deceased grandfather on Veteran’s Day. At a public college, a professor made students do a project requiring them to write the name of Jesus Christ on a piece of paper, put it on the floor and then stomp on it. And these are just two examples of the anti-Christian bias taking place in schools and colleges today.
The teachers at an elementary school in Kansas put up an image of the 5 pillars of Islam.
And as we have also chronicled, the bias is decidedly against Christians as public schools have accommodated Muslim students with all sorts of exceptions for their religion including foot baths, prayer rooms, a special prom just for Muslim girls and even changing sports practice times to midnight for the feast of Ramadan. Most recently an elementary school in Kansas made headlines for a huge display of the five pillars of Islam. In all these instances, it was the school itself promoting and accommodating a religion, not an individual student exercising their free speech rights. Yet in Erin Shead’s case, the mere mention of God in an essay was enough to be deemed inappropriate for school because of “separation of church and state.”
Prophesied Persecution
Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. – 2 Timothy 3:12.
Jesus Christ prophesied that the Christians would suffer discrimination, bias and many forms of persecution all throughout the Church Age. The Gospel of Jesus Christ and the name of Jesus are “ a stumbling block of offense” to those who have rejected The Lord. Pray for believers like Erica Shead and her daughter Erin to continue to contend for the faith and take schools to task who would violate basic rights of free speech and freedom in order to stop the name of God from even being mentioned.
Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man’s sake. Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets. – Luke 6:21-23.
UPDATE: The Liberty Institute, a legal advocacy group that fights to protect the constitutional rights and freedoms of Christians, contacted the school on Erin’s behalf to explain to the school the legal error they were in barring Erin from writing about God.
“Of course students can talk and write about God in school,” said Liberty Attorney Jeremy Dys. “Young teachers, like Erin’s, have been barraged with so much false information for so long that they are afraid that a 10-year-old student’s coloring assignment might violate the First Amendment. That kind of intimidation by the ACLU and Freedom from Religion Foundation is wrong and is precisely what Liberty Institute was founded to combat.”
After discussions with Liberty Institute attorneys, Shelby County Schools reversed the decision of their teacher and allowed Erin to turn in her original assignment about God. And, she earned an “A!”
Erin’s mother told reporters that she simply “wanted Erin’s right to be able to express herself not to ever be taken away again.”
“I just wanted every Christian to know that we have a right to be able to express ourselves,” she told the news reporter. “We understand that they’ve taken prayer out of schools, but they cannot take God out of our children.” (source).
Yep, this story hits REAL close to home for me, as I happen to reside in Shelby County, TN (Metro Memphis). And I do recall seeing the coverage of this story on the local TV news a few weeks ago. And now, the local news is telling us of a lesbian couple who were legally married in one of the “same sex marriage” states, that have relocated to TN (not currently a SS marriage state) and are suing the state to try to force TN to legally accept their “marriage”, with all of the accompanying legal benefits. By the way, I’m not 100% sure of the statistics but I believe there is only maybe one or two of the dozen or so states that now have legalized same sex marriage where the voters of the state actually voted for legalizing that. In most situations, it was “rammed down their throats” by the decree of an opinionated, activist circuit court judge stating that hetero-sex only marriage is “unconstitutional”! And this is a FREE country? Anyway, back to the TN story- one of the partners is pregnant and that was their bone of contention – that if one of the “parents” were to die, then the remaining parent would have no parental rights over the child in this state. “My answer” to their delimma is go back to wherever they were “legally” married and quit trying to force a change in the law of TN to accomidate their own radical agenda! Just as Jesus predicted about “The Last Days” in Matt. 24, we truly are living in perilous times!
David(Quote)
Prynhawn Da/Good afternoon and Hi
Christianity is up in arms again, this time over a little 10 year old and her God, with the right wing Christian organisation, crying foul! Christian fundamentalist are no different to other extreme religious fanatics, they are using the Holy scriptures as God’s given gift to man! This they say gives them the right to overturn democratic government. Nothing can be further from the truth! The Church or Christianity has never been democratic. Christianity and the Bible is all about faith, however, faith is about a symbolic deity, and not about historical truth. Truth can only be found by knowledge of the past, which shows researchers like myself (with over five decades of researching church history), that Christianity is not what it appears to be.
There is no place in a democracy for religion, and the state must be far removed from the church, if a state is heavily influenced by the church, then there is no democracy — only church despotism! Such as that seen in 19th century Ireland and the Papal States, were people were enslaved to the church, where the laity were like puppets, with no free will of their own. Both the aforementioned states saw the modern world pass them by, with the papal inquisition still in full strong, were the death penalty for heresy was still being enforced.
On the subject of church authority over secular lives, the Jesuit priest Malachi Martin (1921-99), scholar and professor of Palaeontology at the Vatican, summed it up when writing about the last Popeking, Pius IX (1846-78). Martin wrote: … Between 1823 (death of Pius VII) and 1846 (when Pius IX was elected), almost 200,000 citizens of the papal states were severely punished (death, life imprisonment, exile, galleys) for political offences; another 1.5 million were subject to constant police surveillance and harassment. There was a gallows permanently in the square of every town and city and village. Railways, meetings of more than three people, and all news papers were forbidden. All books were censored. A special tribunal sat permanently in each place to try, condemn, and execute the accused. All trials were conducted in Latin. Ninety-nine percent of the accused did not understand the accusations against them. Every pope tore up the stream of petitions that came constantly asking for justice, for the franchise, for reform of the police and prison system. When revolts occurred in Bologna, in the Romagna, and elsewhere, they were put down with wholesale executions, sentences to lifelong hard labor in the state penitentiary, to exile, to torture. Austrian troops were always being called in to suppress the revolts. Secret societies abounded. Assassinations, robberies, crime in general increased….[The Decline and Fall of the Roman Church, page 254]
This is not an attack Catholicism on my part, this is historical fact, Protestantism too, has to answer for its past, however, the universal or catholic church was the de facto religion in the West (Europe), from its inauguration in 380 to the Reformation period of the early 16th century. Everything about Christianity today derives from early Catholicism, e.g., the New Testament (NT). Historians have been aware of the NT being awash in interpolations, with its spurious scripture being the work of early Christian zealots. Early Christian sects produced more than 200 various gospels before the end of the 3rd century, with catholicism at the first Council of Nicaea in 325, choosing only the present four gospels of Matt., Mark, Luke, and John. We must also remember that Paganism played a large role in Christianity, with as much as 75 % of today’s church having a pagan origin. Newman, the English churchman wrote: … In the course of the fourth century two movements or developments spread over the face of Christendom, with a rapidity characteristic of the Church; the one ascetic, the other ritual or ceremonial. We are told in various ways by Eusebius, that Constantine, in order to recommend the new religion to the heathen, transferred into it the outward ornaments to which they had been accustomed in their own. It is not necessary to go into a subject which the diligence of Protestant writers has made familiar to most of us. The use of temples, and these dedicated to particular saints, and ornamented on occasions with branches of trees; incense, lamps, and candles; votive offerings on recovery from illness; holy water; asylums; holydays [sic] and seasons, use of calendars, processions, blessings on the fields; sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure, the ring in marriage, turning to the East, images at a later date, perhaps the ecclesiastical chant, and the Kyrie Eleison, are all of pagan origin, and sanctified by their adoption into the Church. …[An Essay on the The Development of the Christian Doctrines, ch. 8, p. 373, by (Cardinal) John Henry Newman]
The narrow minds of fundamentalist, will use the parent’s and the child to get their religious view point over at the cost of truth and democracy. They take no heed of science, or the evolution of man, or the creation of the earth. But rather take the Bible forgeries, telling them that live on earth started with Adam and Eve, and the earth was made by their God, some 6,000 ago. When it is universally known by science, that the Earth was created by the Big Bang some 4.5 billion years ago.
Regards Jero Jones Mab Cymru
Jero Jones(Quote)
Hi Jero. While its obvious that you have done your homework on digging out all of the vices of historical Christendom and your historical knowledge appears to be scholarly, you also seem to have conviniently omitted the equal, and often surpassing, atrocities committed by secular, pagan, and/or atheistic based governances through the annuls of history. Joseph Stalin is one of the first and relatively recent example that comes to mind. Its my understanding that he was responsible for some 20 million deaths during his tenure of dictatorship and that he may have actually been responsible for the deaths of more Jews than good old Adolf himself. The unfortunate fact is that corruption is universal in human based systems of administration and government, albeit in varying degrees. And this problem is as old as humanity itself because the human heart is at its very core evil. Without a Divinely based system of morality, then there is no “standard” to base what’s right or what’s wrong on. It’s only “he said, she said” X 7 billion! And I don’t have the time nor the energy and will to even start debating the age of the universe with you because at the end if the day, neither one of us are going to change our view on that issue. I will only state that although the secular scientific community may seem to agree on an “old universe”, much to the chagrine of the same said secular scientific community, statistical data verifies over and over that there is still a majority of the American public that believe that the earth is <10K years old, a significant majority either believes that God created the universe as stated in Genesis 1 or that He used evolution to affect creation, and only a small minority consider themselves athiest or agnostic. I'll leave further comments for others. Have a nice day.
Dave(Quote)
Prynhawn Da/Good Afternoon and Hi
Hi Dave. Thanks for responding to my comment, and you are right on the atrocities of Stalin and Hitler’s bloody regimes. Stalin was an Atheist and Hitler a Catholic, Hitler was only disowned by the church after his death. However, although the total amount of death were very high, they still do not come anywhere near to the loss of life attributed to the Catholic Church’s purge of so-called heretics. I also could have mentioned Pol Pot’s Kampuchea regime, who killed over 2,000,000 of his own people between 1975-79, or Idi Amin’s 500,000 people slaughtered, or the Catholic Croatian Ustashi’s bloody regime of WWII, whose reign of terror lasted four years from 1941 to 1945. http://www.reformation.org/holoc5.html Better known as the Yugoslavian Holocaust! Ustashi officers were mainly Catholic priest or Franciscan monks, as well as Nuns, who were awarded medals for the killing of Serb Orthodox Metropolitan, bishops, priests, civilians, Gipsies, Jews, and Muslims. The Croatia Catholic Ustashi, gave prices for the most Serb orthodox priests/civilians that they could kill in a single night, by a single person, the tally was over 1200. Their favourite form of execution was the beheading of orthodox priests with a saw or large axe! The Catholic Ustashi committed the most heinous of crimes, from Genocide, massacres, murder, rape, forced conversion of the orthodox to catholicism, the murdered victims included men, women, children and unborn babies.
http://www.reformation.org/holoc7.html#%5B3%5D http://www.reformation.org/holoc10.html
The spiritual head of the Ustashi was Cardinal Aloysius Stepinac, Archbishop of Zagreb, who was jailed by a Yugoslav court in 1946, to 16 years hard labour, for his part in the Ustashi atrocities, and collaborating with the Nazis! The Vatican did a deal with Tito in early 1950’s for his release?
One of the reason why I did not mention these modern atrocities, is that my watershed on my history research covers the supposed Church period, 164 BCE to 1870 CE, and my on nations history from 700 BCE to the fruition of the age old prophecy in 1485 CE.
I hope this information is of use to you or to any of the subscribers to Beginning and End.
Best regards.
Jero Jones Mab Cymru
Jero Jones(Quote)
Hi Jero, Yes, I think we definitely both agree on the universal inherent evil of the human heart and the fact that left to their own devices, humanity always miserably fails when it comes to maintaining civility and moralitiy (anarchy), hence the need for human government. But since there are humans involved in “government”, that ultimately lands us right back where we started. It’s a vicious cycle! And yes, many atrocites have been commited in the name of Christianity and yes, history shows that the Catholic church segment is by far the biggest offender. To me, as a Christian, I believe a good place to start for someone who is disallusioned by the contraversial aspect of the history of Christianity (BTW, not ALL professing Christians have commited or agree with these evil actions that you cite) is to just consider the life of Christ Himself and what He taught. First, He made it very clear that not everyone who claims to be His follower is in fact, His true follower (Matthew 7:15-23). i.e. not everyone who claims to be a “Christian” is in fact a true Christian. Also, Jesus would always tell people to “follow Him”, NOT to follow His followers! That’s because Jesus was the only truly sinless and perfect human who ever lived. He is the “standard” of sinless perfection that we should all try to follow. As His followers, the best that we can do is to try to follow His example. And yes, every true born again believer in Christ still sometimes fail and sin, but it is ultimately their goal to emulate Christ to the best of their ability. I truly hope and pray that you will research further into Christianity from this “angle”. God bless you in your endeavor, friend. :^)
David(Quote)
What a great response. Just keep Christianity focused on Christ. You can’t love Him, and not love others, even those who persecute you. When I truly understood the depths of God’s mercy and forgiveness for me, the first thing I wanted to do was to make amends with those that I had hurt. One of the strongest stands we take against evil is to live out the gospel in our lives, starting in our own hearts. Our best witness to a lost world is the love of Christ.
Diane McNeely(Quote)
It is quite obvious that “Christians” ordering executions and murders were nothing more than nominal Christians. I don’t understand how people ignore this extremely crucial fact. When I hear people say things like “Hitler was a Catholic” I am flabbergasted at the foolishness of that statement. Empty claims and empty words abound in this world…salvation starts in the heart, not by tradition or ritual or empty words. Plus the beginning of real knowledge is the fear, or reverence, of the Lord. Everything else before that is man’s mistaken pride in their own “wisdom”. The arrogance of humans is astounding, as if we created ourselves or something…God’s existence is blatantly obvious, it’s terrifying what pride can do to a man’s common sense.
“Because they hated knowledge and did not choose the fear of the Lord, would have none of my counsel and despised all my reproof, therefore they shall eat the fruit of their way, and have their fill of their own devices.For the simple are killed by their turning away, and the complacency of fools destroys them; but whoever listens to me will dwell secure and will be at ease, without dread of disaster.” -Proverbs 1:29-33
“For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools…”
-Romans 1:18-22
ND(Quote)
Bore da/Good morning and Hi
Hi ND, Sorry for the delay in responding to your comment, due to diabetes, which has ravished this old body.
You mentioned in your comment of Christians who ordering the murders through ecclesiastic executions of peoples as, Nominal Christians. You are aware that I am referring to crimes being committed by the church, from its very highest authority (popes) to the lowly clerics and monks. Who then ordered the secular authorities to carry out their orders in most cases, with church officials (clergy) in attendance to see that church policy was carried out. Nominal Christians would apply to the vast majority of the past popes, as well as the leaders of the Protestant movement, whom allowed the execution of so-called witches and catholics in the Old and New World, from the reformation period. That is precisely what myself, and the rest of the researcher faculty of western history, have been saying.
On the matter of Hitler, it is proved that he was raised by his devout Catholic mother, as a Catholic, I also mentioned the Stalin was an Atheist. If we look into other mass murderers, such as Pol Pot you will find that he was a Buddhist. I am not anti-catholic or anti-Christian or anti-religion, I myself was born into a devout mixed Christian family. However, I have been enlightened by education, and the search for the truth of the past through knowledge, and sciences’!
Posterity is indebted to ancient pagan scholars whose works have enlighten the world on the heinous past of Christianity. Pagans who were in forefront of Christian hatred, when Christianity became the sole religion of empire, which saw the demise of nations and enslavement of there peoples for the greed of Rome. Also we must not forget the Catholic scholars, who put truth before their church, and in most cases paid the ultimate price.
You quote Jewish scriptures, Proverbs (Old Testament or Septuagint late 3rd century BCE) and Romans (wrote by Paul of Tarsus a Pharisees, however, the Jerusalem church saw him as a thief and a false prophet).
Below are two quotes on the views and the attitudes of Christians, one ancient and one modern, and both are quoted by non-Christians.
“No wild beasts are so hostile to men as Christian sects in general are to one another”[Ammianus Marcellinus (c. 325- d. after 391, a pagan scholar), Roman History, bk. XXII, ch. V:4] And:
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi (1869-1948)
Regards
Jero Jones, Mab Cymru
Jero Jones(Quote)
Hi Jero,
Thanks for your comments. There was one portion I wanted to reply to:
The irony in your statement about democracy in this story is that you are the one who wants to suppress the right of free speech of a 10 year old. You are the one proposing that a school should be able to tell a student what type of hero is acceptable based on its own standards. Everything you are suggesting runs contrary to a free and open democratic society.
As for the the Earth being 4.5 billion years old being “known by science”, this statement is inherently false. For something to be scientifically “known” it must be observable. The creation of the Earth clearly is not and thus any rendering of its age is theory and not scientific, empirical fact.
Beginning and End(Quote)
Prynhawn da/Good afternoon and Hi
No I am not trying to suppress one freedom, the article stated that it was the school policy on banning Christian subjects, etc. If we are led to believe by your word that the girls was upset by the taking away of her rights to express her Christian beliefs, then she should of known the school policy on such matter. This is a put-up job by her zealot parent and the Christian law organisation to perpetuate and force their misguided beliefs on others. A belief that was shown for what it was in 1845,with the rediscovery of the Codex Sinaiticus (Sinai Bible), showing the false scripture of the modern Bible, compared to the oldest known bibles. Again in 1847 the discovery of the Enuma Elish cuneiform tablets, dated before 1100 BCE, which are now said to be the basis or the root origin of the book of Genesis. Written up to eighteen hundred years before the Christian saviour was supposed to have been born, written I may add by the Babylonians for their plethora of gods.
It is a matter of fact that the academic world knows that Christianity mimics other religions, we know that the Madonna and child mimics Isis and Horus, we know that in 431 the catholic church at the council of Ephesus elected Mary the of God, deifying her a goddess inline with the older pagan religions mothers of their gods. Now who is taking the right and freedom of man on something they cannot possibly academically prove, science has proved the evolution of the earth through the Big Bang theory, It has proved that the oldest rocks on earth are 3.5 billion years old, t has proved that man came from apes (hominids) million of years before the biblical myths of man being created 6,000 ago. Christian religion has stunted man’s progress, it has banned books, it has censure books, it has burnt books, and it has burnt countless million men on the stake – for nothing more than their beliefs. Now tell me of the last two millennia who has taken the freedom of who?
Regards
Jero Jones Mab Cymru
Jero Jones(Quote)
Hi Jero, It’s funny that you cite that Christianity has “robbed” humanity of their freedom. Yet, it seems to me that the biggest offenders of taking away liberties and taking complete control of our lives is the socialistic and communistic agenda, which historically tend toward agnostic and/or atheistic ideals. The United States of America was founded on the premisis of breaking away from the Church of England, as I’m sure that you are quite aware of. However, the nation that was founded here in North America was in NO WAY divoid of Judeo/Christian principles. Quite to the contrary, most of America’s founding fathers were either Christian or Diests and the U.S. Constitution is rike with references to God. As a matter of fact, the degredation of modern society runs very parallel to and congruent with the abandonment of Judeo/Christian principles and this is backed up by cold hard statistical facts! As an example, I am 51 and when I was a child, the worst things that I had to worry about in our public schools was someone getting caught chewing gum in class, getting caught with cigarettes or in the WORST case, a knife! Today, we have to install metal detectors in our schools, even elementary schools, to (try to) catch guns before they enter in! Back then, you could travel by air without having to practically strip nude in front of TSA agents prior to boarding a plane and you could even leave your doors unlocked at night. Murders were somewhat unusual in my particualr city of < 1 millon residents, now they are nearly a daily occurance. We are continually building more and larger prisons and yet they are still overcrowded! Yep, turning away from our Judeo/Christian heritage over the past four to five decades has really made life better for us here in America! If you ask me, I liked it better when the Christian influence on my society was "robbing" me of my liberties! It sure was a safer place. Bottom line is that I do agree with you that no democratic government should officially indorse a specific sect or religion. However, this should in no way negate the INFLUENCE of sound Judeo/Christian principles upon society, either.
David(Quote)
Bore Da/Good Morning and Hi
Hi David, nice to put a name for a change to whom I am replying to!
If you know your history of Christianity you will see that, not only did they restrict freedoms of thought, speech, read, they also took away the freedom to live! You also mention socialistic and communistic agenda’s taking freedom away from peoples, that may have been so with communism, but that in the case of Russia, petered out after eight decades, whereas Christianity has sustained its attack on humanity, in one form or other the present day. I am also aware of your great countries freedom on religious rights, it has also produced some of the worlds great thinkers on matters pertaining to democracy and religion. I quote one of your greatest statesman and a mentor of mine, who said:
“I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition [Christianity] one redeeming feature. They are all alike, founded upon fables and mythologies.” Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), American founding father, 3rd President of the United States, and scholar.
The list is endless of the thought of great Americans on the subject of Christianity and religion, however, beings I am a researcher of history of my own nation, as well as the early church and classical history, one of my favourite quote goes to a pagan of the 4th century, who wrote on Christianity:
“No wild beasts are so hostile to men as Christian sects in general are to one another”[Ammianus Marcellinus (c. 325- d. after 391), pagan scholar, Roman History, bk. XXII, ch. V:4]
Scholars believe Ammianus wrote this before the religious decree by the tripartite of belligerent Roman emperors, who in 380 made the Universal (Catholic) Church the sole religion of the empire, outlawing all other religions, including other Christian sects. I personally think Ammianus wrote it sometime after the bloody massacre by Damasus I, bishop of Rome (366-384). Who in 366, sent his hire thugs to attack and kill the rival for the bishop of Rome’s vacant seat, Ursinus and his follower, of which 137 Ursinians were killed.
I am truly applaud and saddened by your comment on the violence in your schools and city in which you live, and I also truly hope things improve dramatically for you and the people of your city. The Principality in which I live, has not got a city anywhere near to a million inhabitance, I live on the edge of the Morfa (fens) in the north (About ½ mile from the sea) in a little seaside village, with 2,000 to 3,000 inhabitance in winter, however, during summer the figure goes up to 50,000 or more. Luckily crime is low, and probably the last violent deaths in our area were during the Owain Glyndŵr (Shakespeare and the English called him Glendower) uprisings of 1400-15, however, that is another story of a nations struggle over the tyranny of the English and its draconian anti-Welsh laws, which lasted to the 20th century.
Best regards
Jero Jones, Mab Cymru
Jero Jones(Quote)
Very good point David. The American colonies were certainly founded by Bible-believing Christians. The declaration of independence was founded on the idea that humans were created by God and thus has “inalienable rights.” And the ideas for the formation of the U.S. government were full of Biblical principles.
And just looking at the history of 20th century atheistic regimes (Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao etc.) we see government, murder, oppression and depravity on an unprecedented scale. But somehow, Jero has overlooked those nations.
Beginning and End(Quote)
Prynhawn da/Good Afternoon and Hi
You will see from my past comment that I was talking about atrocities in past centuries, however, I amended my comments on a later reply to cover the atrocities of Stalin, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, etc., etc.
Jero Jones, Mab Cymru
Jero Jones(Quote)
Hi Jero,
You are absolutely proposing to suppress individual freedom of speech and expression. Did you read the article? When the mother of the child went to the school for a response on their policy she was told that the teacher’s actions were NOT in line with school policy. Hence the essay later being accepted and given an A. So you are factually wrong on that account.
And whether Christianity is wrong or right is irrelevant to whether or not a student should have the right to express that God is her hero in an essay about “who is your hero?” You are raising nothing but red herrings and not addressing the real point: that it is you who wants to silence dissenting opinions in the situation which is the very opposite of the supposedly free and open democratic society you claim to be in favor of.
The Roman Catholic church is an amalgamation of pagan beliefs. And your point is what, precisely? There are thousands of Christian websites (this being one of them) that explain in detail why Roman Catholicism has very little to do with Biblical Christianity. Furthermore, study the Inquisition and you will find that majority of those killed were Christians who wanted the Bible to be FREELY given to all and wanted the FREEDOM to criticize the Pope and the unbiblical positions of the Roman Catholic Church. It is quite ironic that you would bring up an organization that is doing the same thing you are trying to do now.
Oh and by the way, I defy you to find proof of “countless millions burned at the stake!!!!” by the Catholic church. This is another wildly inaccurate statement on your part. The estimated death toll of the inquisition over a period of three centuries is about 45,000. Considering most nations were under a population of a million in the 15th century, it would be quite fanciful to think the Roman Catholic Church was just trying and executing countries wholesale (not to mention that it would probably take 10-20,000 years to hold trials for millions of people with a small tribunal).
But even all this “Church killing millions!” talk is a red herring, because it just an attempt to distract from the main point – that you want to suppress a student’s free speech because you happen to disagree with her viewpoint. And that viewpoint is to worship God and proclaim the name of Jesus Christ. So, now that we have refuted your incorrect rendering of history,why are you so angry with God?
Beginning and End(Quote)
Prynhawn da/Good Afternoon and Hi.
Yes, I did read the article and I commented on the both paragraphs that I have copied off the “Beginning and End” comment page, for this article. (See Below) I stand by my comment that pressure was put on the school the media and the law firm. The child was prepared to change her essay, which she did to Michael Jackson, it was the mother that responded saying her baby was the victim of hostility and persecution of Christianity! It was also according to your report that it was her [mother] who involved the TV station and then the Christian law firm.
Copies from the comment page I read.
1 After having the first essay rejected, Erin then opted to make her essay about Michael Jackson, which the teacher approved. Her mother, upon finding out about this incident, took issue with the school. She went to her local TV news station to expose the anti-Christian discrimination. The station aired her story (the video is below).
2 UPDATE: The Liberty Institute, a legal advocacy group that fights to protect the constitutional rights and freedoms of Christians, contacted the school on Erin’s behalf to explain to the school the legal error they were in barring Erin from writing about God.
I said in one of my comment that religion should not be part of education and that church and state should not go hand in hand. It was not bias for on religion over another, however, I see that Christianity is bias to all religions, especially its it closest in faith, the Abrahamic religions or Judaism and Islam. In the comment page I note that you are bias of Islam in your schools, which reminds me of a quote by the Oxford scholar, who was quoted as saying:
“An atheist is just somebody who feels about Yahweh the way any decent Christian feels about Thor or Baal or the golden calf. As has been said before, we are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.” [quoted in 2002, by Richard Dawkins, Oxford zoologist and author]
I was always told in Sunday school to turn the other cheek and to love thy neighbour, apparently today’s Christianity has fallen by the wayside.
Regards
Jero Jones, Mab Cymru
Jero Jones(Quote)
Hi Jero,
Your are contradicting your own comments. You said above that it “was the school’s policy” that the student could not write about God. The article specifically says it was NOT, hence me asking you if you read it.
You also made the claim that “countless millions have burned at the stake” a comment that was outrageous in its inaccuracy and lack of evidence. Instead of acknowledging these things you just continue to bring up more red herrings.
Once again, a 10 year child writing an essay about God is not “church and state hand in hand.” That is as much of an exaggeration as your fabricated death tolls for the inquisition. A student should of course be able to bring up God in an essay in which it is germane to the question posed. That is not the school teaching religion, it’s freedom of speech – something you are clearly trying to suppress in this instance.
Students can pray in school. They can wear religious shirts. They can share their religious message with anyone they choose. This is free speech and has nothing to do with a government endorsement of religion.
I bring up the Muslim examples because it was THE SCHOOL promoting a religion. The school decided to provide foot baths, a special prom, prayer rooms, change practice times to midnight and make a wall-sized poster of the 5 pillars of Islam. This is clearly accommodating a religion by a government institution. If you cannot see the clear difference between a student’s free speech and a school promoting a religion, then you will continue to advocate the trampling of free speech and be the exact thing you claim to oppose.
Beginning and End(Quote)
S’mae
I’ve just picked up this thread.
What has struck me is that Jero is of course right to point out that the church has been corrupt and felt free to manipulate etc etc over the centuries, and this has been true of the Roman church and of course the protestant churches don’t escape this charge too – less likely to murder people though 🙂
But what stuck me is given all this corruption, that the new testament manages to arrive to us in the form that it does, and that is totally extraordinary. Because if you actually read the words of the gospels, and were actually to take hold of Jesus words and do what he says, and attempt to imitate his actions, and a few people were to catch hold too, then the world would be transformed, with enemies loved, greed vanquished, the hungry fed, the sick healed, the prisoners visited and so on. The sad thing is that very very few Christians (me included) have the guts and the courage to actually take Jesus at his word (and not just the words we like) but over the years there have been a few.
So here’s a challenge and i know I’m only picking one passage (but time and space are limited) but which of us is prepared to take Jesus literally at his word and act on Luke 12:22-33 taking particular note of verse 33? and not think of all the excuses as to why this does not apply to me and that Jesus probably didn’t mean it that way etc etc. Or perhaps in this context it might be better to think about Luke 6:27-36
Do what Jesus did, live as he instructed and transform the world.
Blessings
Matty
Matty Christian(Quote)
Hi Matty Christian
Thanks for the belated comment on deeds for a better life for all does sound great, however, you do not need to be Christian or religious to do all these things to make a better world. The less preaching, and bigotry, and more sincerity from the heart will hopefully go a long way.
Jero Jones
Jero Jones(Quote)
Hey
You are of course completely right there is no monopoly on doing good. My point however was more that if those of us who call ourselves Christian were to actually take on board the gospels and not find ways around them then we would make a real difference (alongside all those others who are doing it anyway).
These (slightly over quoted) words from Søren Kierkegaard sum it up well
“The matter is quite simple. The bible is very easy to understand. But we Christians are a bunch of scheming swindlers. We pretend to be unable to understand it because we know very well that the minute we understand, we are obliged to act accordingly. Take any words in the New Testament and forget everything except pledging yourself to act accordingly. My God, you will say, if I do that my whole life will be ruined. How would I ever get on in the world? Herein lies the real place of Christian scholarship. Christian scholarship is the Church’s prodigious invention to defend itself against the Bible, to ensure that we can continue to be good Christians without the Bible coming too close. Oh, priceless scholarship, what would we do without you? Dreadful it is to fall into the hands of the living God. Yes it is even dreadful to be alone with the New Testament.”
The other point i was making is what struck me from your original comment, that given all the corruption in the church over the centuries that we end up with a new testament with the content that it does have, that is one that is diametrically opposed to the behaviors that you describe as being so prevalent in the church and also given the tendency you describe to revise and edit at will.
Matty
Matty(Quote)
I’m happy for the little girl. The public system has become a joke seriously. The young child was not doing anything wrong she was writing what she was told to do. Just because she mentioned God as her idol the school has a fit… really!! This is beyond words. The public schools belongs the people it should not belong to the government. That is reason we have so many problems in schools now a days.
Maria(Quote)
Prynhawn Da/Good Afternoon and Hi
Hi Maria
Sorry you are disillusioned with your public school system. In my opinion, a democratic government sponsored school is more preferable to a religious autocratic run school or a duel government/church school. My nation has had the misfortune of having both types of schools, with catastrophic results on our language and culture! This did not happen centuries ago, I am referring to the period in the first quarter of the 1900’s. As a child my mother told me about her early school day, were the local children were forbidden to speak their native tongue, in the classroom or play area. They they had to speak English at all times, the penalty for speaking Cymraeg (Prydeinig/Welsh), was a severe beating with a cane, and to wear a plaque around the neck, whilst standing in the corner. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_Not My mother was a victim of this cruel and harsh regime (I am showing my age), her first contact with the cane and the plaque was on her very fist day at school, age 3. She had welts on the backs of her little legs that lasted for over a week. The school was a duel run on government sponsored run by the English church. What is surprising is that we are the native people of this isle, our language is the oldest in Europe. Many of our people fled this tyranny for pastures new, lots went to south America, and many went to Yr Amerig (America – USA) to Tennessee, New York, and Pennsylvania.
On a happy note, today we have our own Government, and our language is compulsory taught in our school, as system that produces bilingual students, with high level of scholarship.
I end my commentary with a famous quote from one of the worlds greatest free thinkers.
“I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition [Christianity] one redeeming feature. They are all alike, founded upon fables and mythologies.” Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), American founding father, 3rd President of the United States, and scholar.
Regards Jero Jones Mab Cymru
Jero Jones(Quote)
Hi Jero,
Thanks for your comments. But i think what you are saying is somewhat of a red herring. A 10-year old being “permitted” to write about God in an essay is not the equivalent of a theocratic, religious government. It’s not even remotely close. So I think you are conflating two issues that are not really similar at all. -B&E
Beginning and End(Quote)
Maria(Quote)
I LOVE this Mom! Great job standing up for your daughter! An Idol is defined as: an image or representation of a god used as an object of worship. The teacher may not be educated enough to understand this. I think God will do just fine as an object of worship… Such a lovely young child – Choosing God to worship- Love it!
LiLa(Quote)
Jero, Your knowledge of history is vast, and you present most agrument well. However we search history for a couple of reasons. 1. To understand and learn and change or 2. To prove our bias. Your knowledge is a stumbling block to your knowing the Truth. This truth is the Christ of the ages not a religious system run by inept humans. Until a relationship with Christ is developed, you will be “always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth”.
Dan(Quote)
Prynhawn Da/Good afternoon and Hi.
Hi Dan
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, we have just experienced the worst weather (high winds and high tides) to hit our principality for 50 years, which has battered our little coastal community for the last two night. However, we survived natures fury, although many were flooded out or had their property destroyed, we will survive most of what nature has to offer.
In answer to your comment, history is indeed a knowledge of the past, in find the truth, through research of factual evidence from known and credible sources, etc. However, on the history of early Christianity, finding the true factual evidence is not as easy as it sounds. As the Mother Church from its conception in 380 CE, has faked and forged it way through history, with the greatest network of forgery mill the world has ever seen. Manuscripts of all sorts, from ancient royal charters to religious decretals, most have been shown as downright forgeries, and others being spurious to say the least.
From a young boy to my high teens before entering college and university, I was what you would call a practising Christian. My parents were of mixed faith, mam (mother) being an Anglican and Tad (Father) being a strict non-conformist, who made sure I and my siblings had a religious upbringing.
You mention Christ and truth, and that knowledge was my stumbling block, I have to differ. It is knowledge that allowed me to see the truth, and it was my religious background that I found to be deceitful with a faith built on hearsay, and man-made stories claiming to be the inspiration of God! Every bible today is descended for a 4th century copy, written by a pagan converted to Christianity, who was commissioned by a belligerent bishop of Rome (Damasus I, reigned 366-384), who had blood on his hands. The same bishop who took the title of Rome’s chief pagan priest (Pontifex Maximus) for himself, a title which has been handed down through the centuries to the present bishop of Rome. The same religion that every Christian faith stems from, and acknowledge by Cardinal John Henry Newman (1801-1890) as a religion, whose origin is 75 % paganism.
It is my love of history, and the knowledge I have gained in more than five decades of research that has shown me the truth. Furthermore, science has shown me that the stories of the Christian bible are the writings of zealot Christians. The evidence from scholars is overwhelming in favour of universe being created some 13,8 billion years ago, with the Big Bang theory. Scientist have also dated the creation of the earth at 4,5 billion years ago, and not the mere 6,000 years that most Christian will states.
Regards
Jero Jones, Mab Cymru
Jero Jones(Quote)
Probably a good thing when that same God does things like:-
Isaiah 13:15-18
King James Version (KJV)
15 Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword.
16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.
17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it.
18 Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes shall not spare children.
The God of the Bible encourages killing children and raping woman, not the most suitable material for our children to read.
And when you talk about others not respecting your beliefs, you will send others to eternal hell for theirs, that’s not tolerance that’s pure hatred.
Vista of Vastness(Quote)
Vista, not sure you quite know the context of the verses you quoted, or the cultural and historical context pertaining thereto. It’s a bit ironic that the judgement here is against pride and haughtiness, given your morally superior put-down of God.
The enactors of judgemet are the Medes and the Persians, and they needed no encouragement to destroy the Babylonians or to brutalize their women and children. Why such barbarity?? Because the Babylonians were equally brutal to those they conquered, particularly the Jews. Similar karma was displayed at the end of WWII, when Soviet troops raped and butchered their way through Germany, something which paled in comparison to the 10 million innocent lives exterminated in Nazi death camps. Evil begets evil and destruction. That’s the context of what you quoted.
As for sending people to hell for believing differently, what the heck are you talking about?? That has nothing to do with anything!!
Q(Quote)
So you are saying God believes two wrongs make a right? Eye for an eye and all that, so by this rationale if I rape your wife and child its ok for you to do that to mine is it? Because those innocent children deserved to be punished for the crimes of their fathers?
What about Joshua 8:1-30 God commands the mass killing of 12,000 people in the city of Ai children, women and men, or when reading the books of Exodous, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Samuel, Numbers, Amos, kings to name a few it will produce a toll of no less than one million people who were smote with God’s hands. It was Gandhi that said ‘An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind.’ This seems more profound than Gods teachings to me in the Bible.
I am not putting down God, I am merely pointing out he encourages murder and revenge. I said I don’t think it’s a good thing for our children to read the Bible and I stand by that, because I want our children to move on from all the violence and turmoil that’s engulfed this planet. Same way I wouldn’t advise them to play Grand theft auto or watch a horror movie. It just depends what you want for the future, more of the same or something different.
I think you lose all credibility in deeming something as wrong and bad when you engage in the same behaviour whether that’s God in the Bible or the Soviets against the Germans. It’s like the gang violence in America where they just kill each other as revenge for the last one of their members who got killed and no one even remembers how it all started, it’s just a never ending cycle where it’s the children who end up suffering.
It is very relevant; the worst punishment for anyone…far worse than what Hitler did to the Jews or any human has done to anyone is sending someone to eternal hell to suffer for eternity. Yet this is where you send ALL those who don’t accept your belief. Why do you expect others to allow you to have your beliefs when you threaten them with this for not accepting yours as the only truth? It is bullying on the very highest level, and worse this is what you do to kids. You threaten kids with eternal damnation if they form a different belief than yours; if you can’t see the contradiction in this article then you are blinded by your faith. It is child abuse to bully and threaten them in the way you do through your beliefs.
Whilst you have this attitude people will never accept Christianity and the only reason they ever did was because they were physically and mentally tortured to do so. Christianity will die unless it evolves to afford others a right to believe something different, it’s that simple. Any religion that sends nonbelievers to hell will die as humans evolve; it is not productive behaviour if you want peace and freedom.
Vista of Vastness(Quote)
Prynhawn Da/Good Afternoon and Hi
Hi Vista Vastness
I believe you are correct in saying that the Bible is full of violence, and through the centuries the Bible has incited violence of untold brutality against believers and non-believer. The Protestant Cleric and scholar John Dowling, in his work, wrote: From the birth of the Popery in 606, to the present time [1853], it is estimated by careful and credible historians, that more than Fifty Millions of the human family, had been slaughtered for the crime of heresy by the popish persecutors, an average of more than forty thousand religious murders for every year of the existence of Popery…[History of Romanism, pp. 541-42, by John Dowling, 1853 ed.] On his estimated calculations for the death toll of so called heretics, we find that Dowling did not go far enough, he omitted the 226 year period from the birth of catholicism in 380 to its first pope in 606, and the 93 years from 1853-1946. Nevertheless, there is documented evidence for murders being committed by the Church/Christianity from before 380, as well as the Christian v’s Christian, with the so-called heretic murders from 1941-45, atrocities perpetrated by the Croat Ustashi. Dowling was not the first or the last scholar to write of Christian atrocities, the pagan scholar Marcellinus on Christians wrote: “No wild beasts are so hostile to men as Christian sects in general are to one another….”[Ammianus Marcellinus (c. 325- d. after 391), pagan scholar, Roman History, bk. XXII, ch. V:4] Dowling was highly critical of the Roman Church and used derogatory words such as Popery, Romanism, Romish, Anti-Christ, and the Babylonish Harlot, to describe the papacy and the Catholic Church. That said, he did write in an era of conflict between the Protestant and Catholics in America. If we forget the derogatory term he used, and read his book in the context of time (mid 1800’s), we find his history to be sound, with little of his evidence or citations that would not go amiss today. Protestants too have to answer for their mass killing throughout Europe from the early 16th century on, in their witch hunts and anti-Catholic riots, in which many thousands of lives were lost to Christian religious beliefs, ans superstitions.
I did not let my children read the Bible or force them to go to church, and they have grown up well, and never been a trouble to their mother or myself. Christianity nor the Bible are not the answer, truth through knowledge is!
Best regards
Jero Jones, Mab Cymru
Jero Jones(Quote)
Hi Jero Good evening and I must say great reply,
I find what you say fascinating, you are truly a scholar in this area and I thank you for your research in helping the world overcome the persecution and brutality enacted by the church that has plagued us for so long. The amazing paradox is those that are fanatical like many on this site do not even see what their beliefs have done to humanity. It is truly breath taking the amount of historical evidence whether its brutality enacted by Christians, Muslims or any other religion of exclusivity. It’s this need to be right and the chosen ones that allow them to justify the persecution of everyone else, much like the way Hitler believed the Aryans were the master race and wanted to eliminate others that didn’t fit in with his ideals on what he thought was right. It’s a destructive belief to have, as history and the present day shows. But with the information age well under way, these beliefs will die because they are been shown up for what they are…a tool of manipulation and control.
I have nothing against a faith in God but it has to be balanced with a respect for others to have the right to their own beliefs too. And claiming others will burn in hell for eternity for having another is not showing respect. I believe nothing has been more destructive in people finding God than organised religion which is highly ironic and was most likely a major intention of the Men that created it.
Well done on raising your children without using such scare tactics, I’m sure they are far more rounded individuals for you and your wife making this choice. The quest for knowledge is the way to go if we desire true freedom of choice, equality and peace on this planet. We should be aware of those that wish to supress information whether they are religious leaders and groups or our own Government.
I notice you mention Cymru and about your Mum being forced to speak English, may I ask where in Wales your family is from? My Mum is from Brecon and Dad from Tonypandy although I grew up and live in England in Oxfordshire my family lineage is very Welsh.
Keep up the good work my friend, spreading knowledge is a most noble thing to do in a world run by people that wish to supress it.
Best regards to you too,
Vista
Vista of Vastness(Quote)
Bore Da/Good Morning and Hi.
Hi Vista
Nice to hear you respect your heritage and are proud of your ancestry. Myself, I am descended from the Twdr (Tudor) dynasty, and live within a radius of 10 miles of my ancestral homes on the north coast of the principality between Rhyl and Llandudno.
Also many thank for your comments on my over five decades of researching hanes (history) of my own nation and that of early Christianity, and since my retirement, it is an unending passion that take all my time (24/7), however, that is, until my wife badgers me to take a rest.
The surface of the atrocities committed by Christians, has barely been scratched, with Christianity closing its narrow mindedness to its past brutalities. A past that has consequences for world problems of today, in regards to Muslims. Who by the way are part of the brotherhood of the Abrahamic religions (Jews, Christians, and Muslims), and who were probably the most tolerant of the faith of other religious sect, before Christian acts of barbarism against them, such as the crusades (1095-1291), and Inquisitions against heretics that are documented up until 1941-5. The crusades and the Inquisitions, were particular barbaric, with the infamous Pope Urban II (1088-99), giving each soldier of the crusade a pardoned in 1095, for their sins with the plenary indulgence, prior to committing heinous crimes in its so-called Holy Wars. In addition, atrocities where committed in Europe on Muslins and Jews, as well as Christian heretics, prior and after the crusades that did not end with the last Papal State last Inquisition of 1823-46.[Decline and Fall of the Roman Church, p. 254, by Malachi B. Martin (1981 ed.)]
Probably most if not all the people in Christendom have heard of the misuse and abuse that has been committed on our children, and the most vulnerable in our society, by the Christian clergy. However, they would say that it was an ‘American thing’ or a recent occurrence, and are unaware that the abuse by the clergy is recorded as far back as the council of Elvira (Spain), in c. 306 CE. With canon 18 of the council of Elvira, stated: Bishops, presbyters, and deacons, once they have taken their place in the ministry, shall not be given communion even at the time of death if they are guilty of sexual immorality. Such scandal is a serious offense [sic]. All the canon from this council pertained to sexual deeds, etc.
Canon 18 of the council of Elvira c. 306 CE, stated: Bishops, presbyters, and deacons, once they have taken their place in the ministry, shall not be given communion even at the time of death if they are guilty of sexual immorality. Such scandal is a serious offense [sic].
http://faculty.cua.edu/pennington/Canon%20Law/ElviraCanons.htm
Most of Christianity are also presumably unaware that other atrocities have been committed on small boy, who were castrated for the sole reason of their voices. It is hard to imagine that during the 17th and 18th centuries that 4,000 to 5,000 little boys were being castrated annually for their singing voice alone, so church choirs could compete with one another. Known as castrato singers, they were highly priced by the Church of Rome. They are recorded as first being used by the Sistine Chapel Choir, c. 1560. The ending of castration came with an end to the Papal States in 1870, however, that did not stop the church using castrato singers in the Vatican. It was not till 1903, when Pope Pius X finally banned adult male castrato sopranos from the Vatican. The church’s last castrato, Alessandro Moreschi, died in 1922.[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alessandro_Moreschi ]
One would think that the castration of boys/juveniles/young men by the church had ceased, however, one would be wrong, as in 2012, it was reported the Catholic institutions in the Netherlands had castrated young male in the 1950’s and 60’s.[http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2012/mar/20/forcible-castrations-dutch-catholic-church]
However, religious sites such as B&E concentrate their energies of on so-called anti-Christian subjects, instead of making amends of their past heinous crimes.
Cofion (Regards)
Jero Jones, Mab Cymru
Jero Jones(Quote)
Hi Jero,
I have not been on the site for some time so have not had the chance to reply, but thank you for your most informative of replies.
That is wonderful you know your history and heritage and have stayed true to your roots as a proud welsh man.
I can clearly see this is a great passion of yours and the work you are doing is of great importance in educating others on the history of the church that they have tried so hard to supress. If you cannot see history clearly then you are destined to repeat the same mistakes.
Yes with regard to the word holy war the two words just seem in complete contradiction with one another. The crusades were barbaric in their scope and ferocity and I’m sure it is somewhat partly to blame in the ill feeling many Muslims have towards westerners and their beliefs today. They have never stopped being persecuted by Christians and if we are to find peace then these things must come to an end.
The treatment of young boys and also girls by such called holy men is very startling, many claim it is just a few bad eggs but the frequency of such abuse would suggest otherwise. And considering their draconian stance on homosexuality it shows a glaring hypocrisy within their belief system.
I was unaware of the castration of young boys and this is further evidence of the barbaric nature of many of the churches most fundamentalist followers. The fact it was still going on so recently makes it even harder to understand and compounds the crime. I thank you for the links provided they were very interesting and offer me as a writer good examples to use in highlighting the reality of the Church being so very different from its benevolent façade.
I totally agree…it’s like these things never happened to these people, they do not care about past crimes and seem to be committed to continue persecuting others with different beliefs. I believe as we move forward and people such as yourself continue to expose these atrocities they will have nowhere left to hide and will either have to face modifying their belief system or face being left behind in a compassionate unified world.
I hope life has been treating you and your family well since our last communion.
Cofion Vista
Vista of Vastness(Quote)
Bore da/Good morning and Hi
Hi Vista
Thank you once again for your kind word, and nice to see you active once again. However, I am not fairing well myself with B&E. Whatever comment I have made lately are barred. I made a comment, on the Noah post, however it was barred and I was chastised, E&B wrote: Hi Jero, ‘Please refrain from attacking others in these posts. You have posted constant attempts to challenge the Christian faith and although much of it is unsubstantiated and inaccurate, it had been permitted. But just spewing hatred toward others and hurling insults will not be.’
I checked my comment and found nothing to corroborate their sanctions or hostility to me, the only names I mentioned were biblical, and that my work was true with citations. I will say that I was critical in parts of their organisation without being rude or malice. I have criticise my learned colleagues far worse, and as a researcher of the past, criticism is part and parcel of the work I do. It is never taken to be hostile, it is all about the truth! They (B&E) have clearly opened a site for people to comment, but, bar comment that they do not like or do not accept, unless it agrees with their brand of religion.
Anyway, that’s enough ramblings from an old man, I hope this mail reaches you and that you are well!
Cofion
Jero Jones, Mab Cymru
Jero Jones(Quote)
Hi Jero,
You are most welcome friend I bow my hat to you for your life’s dedication to your work, it is an inspiration. Your words do not surprise me if one cannot counteract a point in a debate they will just attempt to either belittle you or shut you out and it seems they are choosing to ignore you and your most valid points, because as the saying goes sometimes the truth is a bitter pill to swallow.
I must say they have never barred a comment of mine despite some of them challenging their long held beliefs, but with the amount of research you have put into studying the history of religion and Christianity I can see why they would find your views particularly repugnant.
What I would say is that debating on this site is trying to debate with people who have no intention of changing their beliefs what so ever, these teachings are so ingrained in their very beings they are brainwashed by it hypnotised, it’s as difficult as climbing Everest in shorts and t-shirt trying to open them up to any other possibility. These people have the same level of devotion to their beliefs as a suicide bomber about to blow up a group of innocent’s believing in heaven there awaits 72 virgins. They are willing to send 90% of the world’s people to eternal torture, this is their mind-set.
What you need to do is spread your word amongst those still open and those on the fence to show them why they must avoid blindly following these insidious doctrines. Show them the historic evidence of what happens if they do. By turning more and more people away whilst they are open you extinguish the belief before it reaches the point of no return. If enough of us do this we will see the end of Christianity in its current form, and religions of exclusivity in general. This will lead to a golden age of peace and tolerance on Earth, where we are free to follow the beliefs we hold sacred without threats of eternal damnation.
I have universal love for ALL even those that would send me to hell, I believe one day we will create paradise on Earth, our own garden of Eden here on this planet and all of this violent behaviour of ours will be left in the past along with the religions that helped give rise to them. And even though we may not be here to see it, people like us would have done our part in creating it, despite the persecution our people have suffered through history at the hands of others.
Keep up the good work ‘truth seeker’ Jero you are playing your part in the quest for humanities collective enlightenment.
May peace and love be with you and your family.
Cofion cynnes
Vista
Love Of Vast Expanse(Quote)
Bore da/Good morning and Hi
Hi Cariad o Ehangder Helaeth (Love of Vast Expanse)
Thank you yet again for your kind remarks, and your comments are apt for the occasion, and site, which to this old brain of mine is like traveling back in time to the puritan age. On the past, It has not always been plain sailing, there have been many occasions when I have had to take a break, or even stop for a while on some history project, because of the brutality in some of my research. Especially if it is a project pertaining to the modern times, where photos are used as evidence of the atrocities, such as the Croatian Catholic Ustashi barbarities of WWII. Others were the Castrato singers, the mutilation of little boys, as well as the catholic kidnapping of Jewish children, all took their toll on my emotions. However, I am lucky that I do not often research modern history of Christianity after 1870, as a rule, it is only when further evidence or a reference from a colleague or something I read, etc. I have enough pain with the crusades, and the inquisitions, as well as the Christians censoring of the Jewish Holy books, and the dictating what the Jews can say or read in their religion, etc. Then there is the forced conversions of Jews and Muslims, to Christianity, no wonder the Muslims have a ‘no love lost’ relationship with the West.
On a different note, I finish with a quote from an American spiritualist painter, who wrote:
I acknowledge the privilege of being alive in a human body at this moment, endowed with senses, memories, emotions, thoughts, and the space of mind in its wisdom aspect. By Alex Grey
Cofion cynnes Golygfa (Warm regards Vista)
Jero Jones, Mab Cymru
Jero Jones(Quote)
Today, we are told by public officials what we (or our kids) can and cannot do in the school system. Elsewhere in the world, people are being murdered for their faith. How long before that same spirit arrives in this country unfettered because lukewarm Christians vote for x, y. or z because he looks pretty or he “says all the right things”. We have an Ungodly President back in office today simply because more than 2 million so called evangelicals voted him back into office. He placed his hand on the bible at the swearing in ceremony and less than 1/2 hour later broke several commandments writing in that same bible he just laid his hand on. And..we wonder what kind of a country we now have? He is in office today because PROFESSING CHRISTIANS put him there. Had it not been for these mis-informed lukewarmers…..he would not have made it. Today, same sex marriages are being “legalized” like never before (yes, he mentioned that in his acceptance address). If Christians fail to pray and start getting informed and begin to hold our elected leaders and officials accountable at all levels, having to read a story about this kid will be the LEAST of our worries.
jj(Quote)
This is the complete opposite of my high school. My school had lots of diversity but when it came to christian functions they were allowed to happen, if kids wanted to say a christian prayer or talk about god they were allowed but let another student talked about their religious beliefs they were quickly shut down which I thought was unfair. I remember doing a report for my social studies project on wicca and I worked really hard on the paper and project. I even pointed out how some holidays and symbols are still used today in society but when I began reading my paper in class I was made fun of and told I was going to hell and a child of satan; this was very hurtful. Christians always cry out your being oppressed yet you do it to others and wonder why so many people who actually read the bible or went to church realize that their is something seriously wrong with this faith
childofra(Quote)