Matthew Chapter 19 gives an important lesson about how you get to Heaven.
In Matthew chapter 19, The Lord Jesus Christ encounters a wealthy man who is eager to find out what he specifically must do have eternal life. In this exchange there are many powerful principles that a Christian can learn. Was Jesus instructing this man to follow the Ten Commandments in order to have eternal life? What is the meaning of this conversation and how does it fit in with the Gospel message of faith in Jesus Christ to go to Heaven? This article will answer those questions and focus on a particular point: that the law of the Old Covenant, also known as the Mosaic law, does not save a person. It is only through faith in Christ that one can be saved.
And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. – Matthew 19:16-17.
Already in these two verses there are some things that can be learned about this rich, young ruler. For one he views Jesus as a rabbi or an enlightened teacher of the Word, hence him calling Him “Good Master.” This was done out of respect, but Jesus’ response already gives insight into the rich man’s lack of understanding. “Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God” Many have interpreted this part of verse 17 to mean that Jesus is distinguishing Himself from God the Father. On the contrary, Jesus was prodding the young man to understand that he was standing before God in the flesh [B&E: the reader would be wise to consider this when encountering Bible passages that are difficult to understand. Perhaps like the young man in this chapter, you are being challenged to look deeper into the Bible to understand The Lord’s message. Pray for Divine help in these times]. Jesus Christ, the Savior, the way to eternal life, was standing right before this man and yet he did not recognize it.
but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. – Matthew 19:17.
And this statement by Jesus confirms the interpretation above. Rather than tell the man the Gospel, Jesus is now challenging the young man. Why? Because the man erroneously believed that there was something he could do to earn his salvation. Notice the question from verses 16: “what GOOD THING SHALL I DO, that I may have eternal life?” The rich man did not believe the Biblical Gospel, in which eternal life is received by faith – but instead was trusting in his own good works to redeem himself. So now Jesus was going to show the error of the man’s ways.
He [the rich man] saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? – Matthew 19:18-20.
Trying to get to Heaven by good works is impossible.
Jesus starts listing some of the ten commandments as well as one of the new commandments He issued to the church (“love thy neighbor as thyself”). The rich man says that he kept all of these commandments but he still felt something was lacking. He still did not have eternal salvation and knew it. This is an important lesson. As we explained in detail in our article Are Christians Under The Law?: Understanding The Law and The Gospel, the Mosaic law or Old Covenant, was never meant to be a means of salvation. It was implemented because of sin, to provide correct standards until Jesus came to Earth and convince all people that they need a Savior for their sin.
Many people today are living their lives believing the same false gospel of the rich man: that they have done enough “good” in their lives to “earn” their way into Heaven. This is the exact opposite of what Scripture says. The Bible says that “no one is good, no not one.” That all of our righteousness are as filthy rags. The Mosaic law had a condition that if it was broken in one rule, the offender was guilty of all. So no one is good enough to work their way into Heaven by good deeds. All people have sinned and all sin is punishable by eternal damnation. Which is why all people need a Savior. And this young man, standing face to face with the Savior was still trying to profess his good works and trust in himself rather than Christ. After showing the error of the man’s belief, Jesus then goes to the heart of the matter to convict him of his sin:
Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. – Matthew 19:21.
No matter how “good” a person may think they are, all people have sin in their lives. Jesus, speaking in the sermon on the mount in Matthew chapter 5, showed that His standards even went to our thoughts and that just thinking about sinful behavior was a sin. Knowing the rich man’s heart, Jesus was easily able to show that despite his protests to the contrary, this man was not living a sinless life, but instead loved his wealth more than God. Here he was being offered eternal life and eternal riches and he turned it down! What does this mean? That he did not have faith – which is what one really needs to be saved.
This passage has unfortunately been misused by Bible skeptics and even some Christians to imply that Jesus was giving a universal command of all Christians to sell their possessions and give everything to the poor. Suggesting this is clearly taking this verse out of context and a case of wild misinterpretation. Jesus was looking into the heart of a specific person and making a statement to show him and those listening the man’s sin: namely that he believed in his own wealth more than Heaven. This is not a command to all believers in Christ to sell everything they own.
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. – Matthew 19:23-24.
The road to Heaven starts with faith.
Here Jesus does give a general principle: those who have material wealth have a harder time being saved. Why? Because it is much easier to believe you “have it made” when you are wealthy. The temptation to think you have no need for God, prayer, the Gospel or the Bible is greater when a person seems to “have it all.” So this portion of the account is a clear warning for all of those who have material abundance.
When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible. – Matthew 19:25-26.
Jesus drives the point of this account home: people cannot save themselves. No matter how many good works, or how well one tries to keep the Old Covenant law, earning salvation is “impossible.” But when one no longer tries to earn their salvation and puts their full faith and trust in Jesus Christ and the work He did on the cross – taking the punishment for the sins of the world and serving as the perfect atoning sacrifice for all time, then all things are possible.
Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life. But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first. – Matthew 19:27-30.
The chapter closes with Jesus encouraging His disciples by reminding them of the rewards they will receive for their faithfulness, as they will sit in positions of authority during the Millennial reign of Christ. And for all born again believers will be rewarded “an hundredfold” and with eternal life. Being a Christian may require losing friends, having falling out with family members, passing up earthly riches or fame in order to remain a faithful believer. A Christian may not be considered “good” by the world’s standards at all. But if one’s suffers for their faith, rest assured the Savior is watching and will remember it. These are the true riches, the eternal riches, that you can put your trust in forever. And they are not attained through work, but through faith in the work done by The Lord Jesus Christ.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. – Ephesians 2:8-9.
xino says
October 22, 2013 at 2:10 pmwell said.
let all those who love the law continue to live under the law.
we are saved through faith and the Just shall live by Faith! not by works!
xino(Quote)
Beginning and End says
October 22, 2013 at 11:12 pmAmen Xino.
Beginning and End(Quote)
Nephesh roi says
October 23, 2013 at 6:04 am“Oh how I love Your Law! It is my meditation all the day.” (Psalms 119:97)
“I hate the halfhearted; but I love Your Law.” (Psalms 119:113)
“I hate and despise lying; but I love Your Law.” (Psalms 119:163)
“Great peace is to those who love Your Law, and there is no stumblingblock to them.” (Psalms 119:165)
The case of the above Psalmist is a gone case because he is under the law!!!
But the Psalmist or anyone who loves God and His holy laws are NOT under the Law!!!
None of God’s saints are under the law!!!
Only law breakers (sinners) are under the law according to the Scripture!!!!!!!!!!!!
“For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under Law, but under grace.” (Rom 6:14)
There it is! We are under the law WHEN sin has dominion over us!!!!!!
Nephesh roi(Quote)
xino says
October 23, 2013 at 8:45 ambrother I think you are confused because you are mixing the verses up.
We are in the New Testament NOT Old Testament.
You justify yourself that we are under the law when we sin.
So because the Psalmist are saying “they love the law”.
The very SAME verses you quoted said these:
“I hate the halfhearted; but I love Your Law.” (Psalms 119:113)”
What did Jesus say? “love your enemies”. So these psalm saying this does not know the Love of God if he is to hate his enemy.
The very same law that says “love your neighbour as yourself” is the same law that says “eye for an eye and tooth for tooth”. Meaning you do the same hurting someone did to you onto them, so how is that love???
Brother please tell me, how can people who keep the law and live in peace?
the very same law that BINDS people’s life, whereas you cannot do anything on Sabbath day.
Jesus fulfilled the law yet also broke the law, wasn’t he teaching and healing on sabbath? Yet the law he came to fulfil said we should keep Sabbath day holy.
Psalm 119:165 you quoted said ones who keep the law will find peace.
How can I find peace when I see my 1% sheep out of 99% fallen in a ditch on Sabbath day?
Please look at the Good Samaritan again. The preachers like you who follow the law could not even help the half dead beaten up guy, but a neighbour who does not follow the law was the only one to help the poor guy.
Makes no sense, how can you quote Rom 6:14 saying we are not under the law but Grace and then you ruined Paul’s words by saying we are under the law when we sin.
So you deny Jesus did nothing for us on the cross right?
Because if I sin today it means I am under the Law, so how would I get my salvation to be right/justified before God?
Brother Jesus has done it all on the cross, his Grace and Mercy is upon us and we live by that. By his grace are we saved through our faith.
Habakkuk said “the just shall live by faith” NOT by law.
So before we knew Christ we were under the law and sinful. But by his blood that cleansed and washed us, we are free from the Law and save by his grace and mercy.
xino(Quote)
Nephesh roi says
October 25, 2013 at 2:02 amYour comment – “brother I think you are confused because you are mixing the verses up.”
Response – No, brother, I am not confused and I am not mixing up verses. I think I know what I am talking about.
***
Your comment – “We are in the New Testament NOT Old Testament.”
Response – I know we are in the New Covenant. But does it mean that all the Old Testament Scripture is wrong?! Remember, regarding the Old Testament books, Jesus said this: “the Scripture canNOT be BROKEN” (John 10:35)!!!
Now you say the Old Testament can be broken that is why we are in the New Testament.
I don’t take it that way!
***
Your comment – “The very SAME verses you quoted said these:
“I hate the halfhearted; but I love Your Law.” (Psalms 119:113)”
What did Jesus say? “love your enemies”. So these psalm saying this does not know the Love of God if he is to hate his enemy.”
Response – I am sorry I took that verse from LITV (Literal Translation Version). In other versions, it reads like this: “I hate half-hearted thoughts; but Your Law do I love.” (MKJV); “I hate vain thoughts: but thy law do I love.” (KJV).
So a correction in translation solves that issue.
But again if you think that Jesus never talks about “hate” you are wrong!
“If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.” (Luke 14:26).
I know now you will say I am out of context here. My point is, in whatever context, whatsoever you understand from Luke 14:26, you can apply the same to Psalms 119:113.
Whatever Jesus meant in Luke 14:26 is the meaning of the Psalmist too because the Psalmist is inspired by the Holy Spirit!!!
***
Your comment – “The very same law that says “love your neighbour as yourself” is the same law that says “eye for an eye and tooth for tooth”. Meaning you do the same hurting someone did to you onto them, so how is that love???”
Response – Trust me, if you think “eye for eye” is all bad and “love” is all good, the blame should NOT go to Moses! The blame should go directly to GOD HIMSELF because He gave this principle to Moses!!!!!!!!!!!
Are you ready to blame God for that?!!!!
Or do you think the cruel God of Old Testament teaches “revenge” and the kindGod of New Testament teaches “love”?!
Then you will be proving that Jesus is “against” God!!!!!! But Jesus said He speaks only what He learned from God the Father!!!!!!!!!!
“eye for eye and tooth for tooth” – Imagine a foolish god giving this principle to Israel and then we see the Israelites all deaf, dumb, maimed and handicapped because they “practised” this principle!!!!
Do you see even a single case where an Israelite broke the hand of another and Moses asking the latter to break the hand of the first?!!!
No, never!
Why?
Please understand that “eye for eye and tooth for tooth” is a GREAT principle given by God to “the JUDGES” of Israel to determine the “COMPENSATION” to the victims!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (This is an off-topic so I leave it at here).
So please stop thinking wrongly that the Old Testament is full of hatred and the New Testament is full of love!!!!!!!
Even the great law of “love your neighbor as yourself” that you uphold so much, ORIGINALLY comes from the Old Testament, that too from Moses’ book of Leviticus!!!!!
Jesus was simply quoting from it!!!
Do you know that?!
“You shall NOT take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people; but YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF; I am Jehovah.” (Lev 19:18)
It is time for you to remove your wrong ideas of the Old Testament!
***
Your comment – “the very same law that BINDS people’s life, whereas you cannot do anything on Sabbath day.”
Response – who told you, you cannot do anything on Sabbath day?!!!
***
Your comment – “Jesus fulfilled the law yet also broke the law, wasn’t he teaching and healing on sabbath?”
Response – If Jesus broke the law then Jesus is NOT the Savior!!!!!!!!!!! A law breaker cannot be a Savior!!!!! Your gospel is completely wrong!!!!!!!!
“Instead, we have one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet he never sinned.” (Heb 4:15).
And nowhere in the Old Testament is there any prohibition on teaching and healing on Sabbath!!! On the contrary, rightfully as Jesus said, the whole Levitical priests are busy sacrificing animals in the Temple on every Sabbath yet they don’t break the Sabbath!!!!
***
Your comment – “Psalm 119:165 you quoted said ones who keep the law will find peace.
How can I find peace when I see my 1% sheep out of 99% fallen in a ditch on Sabbath day?”
Response – So you mean to say the Holy Spirit who inspired Psalm 119:165 is wrong?!!!!!!!
***
Your comment – “Please look at the Good Samaritan again. The preachers like you who follow the law could not even help the half dead beaten up guy, but a neighbour who does not follow the law was the only one to help the poor guy.”
Response – The good samaritan had the Pentateuch (the first five books of Moses; they still have that even today). So he was following the Leviticus 19:18 that says to “love your neighbor as yourself”!!!!
The people who did not help the half beaten man were not following any law! Apostle Paul has this to say about them: “Even those who practice circumcision do not obey the Law” (Gal 6:13)
***
Your comment – “So you deny Jesus did nothing for us on the cross right?”
Response – Jesus did everything for us through His life and death.
Don’t you know that our reconciliation/justification comes through the sinless blood and death of Jesus and our salvation comes through the law-abiding life of Jesus!!!
“For if when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.” (Rom 5:10)
So Jesus’ death is only a half part of the story! His life fills the other part!!
Perhaps, you missed the part of His obedient LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
***
Your comment – “Because if I sin today it means I am under the Law, so how would I get my salvation to be right/justified before God?”
Response – Your justification/reconciliation from sin will come through the blood and death of Jesus, the Lamb of God for an eternal sacrifice.
Your life and salvation will come through the obedient life of Jesus!
So don’t miss His life part so you don’t lose your own life!!!
***
Your comment – “Brother Jesus has done it all on the cross, his Grace and Mercy is upon us and we live by that.”
Response – No, brother, Jesus has done it all not only on the cross but in His life also!!! We are justified by His blood and death and we are saved by His life!
***
Your comment – “Habakkuk said “the just shall live by faith” NOT by law.”
Response – You are misleading!!! “NOT by law” is Not there in Habakkuk!!!! Why do you add to the Bible?!
Of course, if you do not have faith, you will not even believe that there is a God and that God has a set of spiritual laws which you need to “be subject to” (Rom 8:7)!!!!!!!!!!
***
Your comment – “But by his blood that cleansed and washed us, we are free from the Law and save by his grace and mercy.”
Response – Free from the Law does not mean that you can break the Law again!!!
Example – I killed some one. It means I broke the Law. I am sentenced as under the (custody) of Law. I await my execution. Jesus Christ comes and by His grace and mercy pays the penalty on my behalf. I am sentenced as free to go. So I am free from the Law.
Now that does NOT mean I can kill again! Does it?!!!
The same Jesus who saved me from death asks me:
“Behold, you have become well, SIN NO MORE that a worse thing not happen to you.” (John 5:14).
Nephesh roi(Quote)
xino says
October 25, 2013 at 8:36 amBrother you are reading too much into the words.
First of all.
is the Bible Holy?
yes or no?
Because if you are going to say sorry you used a wrong translation, is the first step of your manipulating the bible to your understanding. Many do that and the Atheist and Muslims do the same as well. If I want to use the earliest origin translation used in a bible text.
I used King James or 1599 Geneva.
I don’t need to jump from translations to translations to prove “this is what I think the bible says”.
Even though you did not use that quote, there are many verse in Psalms where the psalmist shows hatred towards sinners and evil people, which is wrong.
The Luke 14:26 you quoted was from your own interpretation which is not right.
How can you justify Jesus said we should hate our parents whereas he gave a better command “love everyone”
John 13:34
“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.”
I am telling you brother if you are going to use the bible out of context you will get yourself confused and we would just keep jumping back n forte in terms of arguments.
What Jesus meant by Luke 14:26 is that you do not put your love first of parents over Jesus.
To put it lightly, didn’t the first commandment says we should love God with all our mind (soul), heart and strength? So if you love your parents more than Jesus, how are you fulfilling the 1st commandment?
Basically what Jesus meant was, love him more than your parents!
If Jesus said go to all nations and make disciples. And your parents say “son you have a business to run, this business is our families legacy so you have to stay here and run this business”. If you choose to follow your parents, who do you love more?
will running a 140yrs heritage family business saves lives of millions of people destined for hell? no
Brother I’m going to be straight here. If I say this a lot of people will yell blasphemy or say I am wrong.
But here it goes:
the whole bible is NOT the word of God, bible contains the words of God.
Not every single word is inspired. Even in the Old Testament, Ecclesiastes is not full of God wisdom but worldly wisdom!
You take my words for it or not, it’s up to you.
But when people say “bible is HOLY” or “bible is GOD’S WORDS AND BREATH”, this is why they have NO clue of what God’s love truly his
“God is a angry God, consuming fire and jealous God”…so why did he sent his son to die for us? why did he only release all his wrath and anger on his son?
“Paul said women should not preach at church”…because bible is all God’s inspired words therefore it was God who said so. How can that be when Jesus said EVERYONE should go out to nation and make disciples, preaching his words. So if I say God commanded women not to preach, isn’t that contradictory to Jesus’s commission?
If you are going to go to the side of “God of OT is cruel and God of NT is love”…you are falling into the Atheist side or do not understand God!
I was just like this, viewing God of OT as a strict God, especially when he ordered a man who was picking woods on sabbath day to be stoned to death, or even killing Uzzah who touched the Ark of the Covenant.
It was the way the bible was written that we do not get the bigger picture!
The way OT was written makes God look like a cruel God.
HOW? When God is love?
If God who is love is cruel then Christianity is sham.
Like I said before, taking the bible as “bible is HOLY”, will make you misunderstand God’s loving nature and get you confused. It is because of “bible is HOLY and GOD’S Breath” is the reason why we have so many sects, denomination and confusion in the church.
Brother, if you rob a bank to feed 5000 starving children, is your doing justified?
should you be condemned for doing so?
You yourself sound like an exact Pharisee!
If Jesus was bound by the law, if would not save lives on Sabbath day.
Law is there fore peace and order not bound and control.
So breaking the law does not mean fully sinning.
Tell me, if Jesus broke the Sabbath day law to save people’s lives, is he sinning?
How can you sin to save lives???
If you saw a revolutionist fighter running away from patrolling army to come into your house, and this fighter will allow World Peace for a country. Will you lie to the army that the revolutionist army did not come to your house or will you tell the truth and say he’s hiding in your house? (simply because you do not want to lie or it’s breaking the law)
“And nowhere in the Old Testament is there any prohibition on teaching and healing on Sabbath!!! On the contrary, rightfully as Jesus said, the whole Levitical priests are busy sacrificing animals in the Temple on every Sabbath yet they don’t break the Sabbath!!!!”
When did Jesus say that? they already broke the sabbath by sacrificing!
Sabbath is DAY OF REST. Doing works means you are breaking it! So Jesus saving by working is already breaking the sabbath.
Levites sacrificing animals is working meant they broke the Sabbath.
Tell me what this verse means to you:
Isaiah 58:13
“If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath
and from doing as you please on my holy day,
if you call the Sabbath a delight
and the Lord’s holy day honorable,
and if you honor it by not going your own way
and not doing as you please or speaking idle words,
This term: “inspired by Holy Spirit”…do you know what it means? please explain it!
HAHAHAHAHAAH, how can he love his neighbour if he left him there to die?
Brother, why are you reading the bible based on your wisdom?
Jesus asked the Jews “who was the neighbour” and they said “the good Samaritan”.
The priest nor Levi CANNOT be the neighbour because they are bound by the law.
The first covenant was flawed. Yes both of them would follow “love your neighbour as yourself”, yet the same law says “do not touch anything unclean or with blood or you will remain unclean for 7 days and will be cut off from the people of Israel”.
And what is the obedient to Jesus?
If I am saved by Jesus life and he has done it all on the cross?
how do I get to heaven? why do I need to be obedient to Jesus if he has done it all?
Habakkuk 2:4
English Standard Version (ESV)
4 “Behold, his soul is puffed up; it is not upright within him,
but the righteous shall live by his faith.[a]
lol…brother.
this comment section will not cut it.
we need to discuss this where there is more open space.
and we have to START from the beginning, because I don’t like how you are using the bible out of context. We will never get anywhere if you keep doing that.
xino(Quote)
Nephesh roi says
October 26, 2013 at 4:53 amYour comment – “Basically what Jesus meant was, love him more than your parents!”
Response – Exactly! The psalmist also says the same thing; that he loves God’s law more than the half-hearted thoughts!
***
Your comment – “Brother I’m going to be straight here. If I say this a lot of people will yell blasphemy or say I am wrong.
But here it goes:
the whole bible is NOT the word of God, bible contains the words of God.
Not every single word is inspired. Even in the Old Testament, Ecclesiastes is not full of God wisdom but worldly wisdom!
You take my words for it or not, it’s up to you.”
Response – No, I don’t take your word for it!
“ALL Scripture is God-breathed and profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, so that the man of God may be perfected, being fully furnished for every good work.” (2 Tim 3:16-17)
So you see, Appostle Paul does NOT agree with you at all!!!!!!!!!!!
He says the WHOLE of the Bible is the Word of God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I take his word for it! Sorry.
***
Your comment – “If you are going to go to the side of “God of OT is cruel and God of NT is love”…you are falling into the Atheist side or do not understand God!”
Response – No I don’t believe that the God of the OT is cruel. I said your post implied that. That is all.
****
Your comment – “Brother, if you rob a bank to feed 5000 starving children, is your doing justified?
should you be condemned for doing so?”
Response – What do you say? Do you say robbing a bank to feed 5000 is okay?
****
Your comment – “So breaking the law does not mean fully sinning.”
Response – That is your personal opinion, which I do not take seriously.
The inspired Bible says, “Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.”
So breaking the law = fully sinning!!!!!!!!!!!
****
Your comment – “Tell me, if Jesus broke the Sabbath day law to save people’s lives, is he sinning?”
Response – No, Jesus did NOT break Sabbath!!!
Remember even when the false witnesses were struggling to accuse Jesus before the Sanhedrin at the time of Crucifixion, they did not accuse Jesus of breaking any Sabbath!
Nephesh roi(Quote)
xino says
October 26, 2013 at 9:07 amSo even though the devil spoke it means it is God’s words? All the curses in bible are God’s words too?u
So robbing the bank to feed 5000 starving children is a crime and sin and the person should be punished for trying to save bunch of starving children from dying?
I dont think you understand the concept of Love, having the law and sacrificing your freedom and innocence for the guilty. Because those things Jesus fulfilled and if you fail to understand then you dont know why Jesus died for us:/
So Jesus did not break the Sabbath?
What is the Sabbath? Isnt it day of rest? Did Jesus rested in any of the sabbaths while preaching? If you say yes then you only love to pick and read bible verses just to make sure it sayss what you think and and believe. X
xino(Quote)
Nephesh roi says
October 28, 2013 at 4:47 amYour comment – “So even though the devil spoke it means it is God’s words?”
Response – The real issue here is, you said, “not every single word in the Bible is inspired“.
So I correct your above statement thus: “So even though the devil spoke it means it is “IN” God’s Word”!!!
God inspired His prophets and apostles to write down what lies the devil has spoken. We know surely that the devil did speak such things because it is in God’s Word!
****
Your comment – “All the curses in bible are God’s words too?u”
Response – Of course, God has set certain curses and more blessings in the Bible which automatically result depending on your action!
If you obey you get blessings and if you disobey you get curses because “you reap what you saw”.
So both blessings and curses are God’s words. In fact, both are automatic “effects” that happen “caused” by your action because the spiritual laws are in constant action like the law of gravity!
Example, suppose someone believes sincerely that Jesus abolished the law of gravity so he tries to jump up from a high rise building thinking that he will float in the air. No need to say what will be the end result!
Well, God’s spiritual laws function much the same way because they are “active” all the time. The creator God who established the law of gravity is the same God who established His spiritual laws of love! If you break them you will have consequences!
****
Your comment – “So robbing the bank to feed 5000 starving children is a crime and sin and the person should be punished for trying to save bunch of starving children from dying?”
Response – Robbing is wrong!!! It is a SIN!!!
“You shall not steal.” (Exo 20:15) “And you shall not steal.” (Deut 5:19)
Even in the New Covenant, the commandment is the same:
“NOT STEALING, but showing all good faith, that they may adorn the doctrine of our Savior God in all things.” (Titus 2:10).
(Please note that even if you have “all good faith” you are NOT supposed to steal)!!!
“If you used to rob, you must stop robbing and start working, in order to earn an honest living for yourself and to be able to help the poor.” (Ephes 4:28)
(So you see the method to feed 5000 hungry is NOT to rob but to work to feed them in rightful ways)!!!
Of course since you don’t believe in ALL God’s Word, you may argue that Apostle Paul’s advice is NOT God’s words!!!
****
Your comment – “I don’t think you understand the concept of Love”
Response – Of course I may not understand “your” concept of love. But I understand God’s concept of love:
“love is the fulfilling of the Law” (Rom 13:10)
“Love rejoices in the truth, but not in evil.” (1 Cor 13:6)
****
Your comment – “having the law and sacrificing your freedom and innocence for the guilty.”
Response – The “freedom” you received from Jesus is not a freedom from responsibility. It is a freedom from SIN!!!!
“Then being made free from sin, you became the slaves of righteousness.” (Rom 6:18)
This freedom is not to be misused as an excuse to do sin again!
“Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God” (1 Pet 2:16)
****
Your comment – “So Jesus did not break the Sabbath?
What is the Sabbath? Isnt it day of rest? Did Jesus rested in any of the sabbaths while preaching? If you say yes then you only love to pick and read bible verses just to make sure it sayss what you think and and believe. X”
Response – Sabbath is a day of rest from the “things of man” or human business! On a Sabbath you do “things of God”!!
Jesus of Nazareth was a carpenter by human profession. So He did His human business of carpentry on six days and rested on the Sabbath before His public ministry! But it was “His custom” to do things of God on every Sabbath!!!
“And He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And, as His custom was, He went in to the synagogue on the Sabbath day and stood up to read.” (Luke 4:16)
Apostle Paul was a tentmaker by human profession (Acts 18:3). So he worked as tentmaker on six days and took off on every Sabbath. But on every Sabbath he engaged in the things of God like preaching and teaching the Gospel!
So neither Jesus nor the apostles broke the Sabbath!
Nephesh roi(Quote)
xino says
October 28, 2013 at 10:31 amSo it is inspired, that is why there are contradictory verses and that is why people have different words in the bible.
For an example
Matthew 28:1
“Now after the Sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to see the tomb.”
Mark 16:1-3
“16 When the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, so that they might go and anoint him. 2 And very early on the first day of the week, when the sun had risen, they went to the tomb.”
Luke 24:1
“But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they went to the tomb, taking the spices they had prepared.”
John 20:1
“Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb.”
So which is correct? if it is God’s breath, shouldn’t it be easier for us to understand? If it’s God’s breath, wouldn’t it be 1 explanation bearing the same details?
This is 1 example of contradictory verse in the bible.
So if I disobey the law, I will reap curses?
how come the sins I’ve been doing after my salvation and repentance had no curse effect on me?
But didn’t Jesus actually bend the law? by walking on water? and what was the end result?:/
So we will have consequences by breaking his laws. So why did he sent his son to die for us?
I think you have no idea what God is. You are much like a Pharisee, someone who just wants to obey what he has been told without understanding the purpose of the instructions or who that person instructed him.
If God is love and I broke one of his commandments, why do I need to reap curses?
With your teaching is EXACTLY why people turn to Atheist!
Because why do I need to reap curses when God sent his son to die for me so I don’t go to hell? Then Jesus died for nothing if I am to reap curses for breaking simple commands/laws.
This is why people don’t want to believe in God because your god description is a egoistic being, who loves to bind people under his law with no freedom.
My god is a god of freewill, you choose life or death. He sent his son to die for us so we don’t reap anymore curses!
So how come Rabah lied over the 2 Israelites who spied on the land, yet God spared her and her family? She lied to save the Jews how come she was not punished?
As the bible says liars will not inherit the kingdom of God (by taking that verse out of context), and it is a sin to lie. So why did God spared her?
lol…good luck trying to feed the 5000 children by your deeds!
Paul kept teaching Law while we are under Grace, which is why readers gets confused!
For an example when you are a child of God, there’s no male or female, yet Paul goes back to the law putting men in authority over women. It is wrong.
He says we should die like a good soldier of Christ, how and why? when Jesus has done it all:/
There you go…you think you understand God’s love but you do not!
The Good samaritan who is not a jew and is not living under the law. Saw compassion on the half dead man and helped our of his good heart. While the priest and levi living under the law lived by the law and could not help the guy. That is true love.
Rahab a prostitute who lied putting her lives and family at risk chose to do so to spare the 2 Jews lives. Yet because of lying she was saved! That is love! Love is doing something to help others!
Jesus died for us yet did not sin, that is love!
Jacob did a lot of wrong things yet he was chosen to be Israel.
1 John 4:8 ESV
“Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.”
So for the Samaritan to show compassion without law is working under the condition of love! Because the same God who is love is the same one who blesses good people and evil people!
So many false preachers out there, robbing people of their money and teaching wrong doctrine. Yet because God is love, he still blesses them!
You misunderstood my comment about the freedom
So why did Jesus used the example of David eating the consecrated bread on the Sabbath?
That is contradiction number 2 in the bible.
Sabbath is day of rest…period!
Exodus 20:10-11
“but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates.
For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.”
You just don’t want to deny it that Jesus broke the Sabbath.
You can manipulate the bible all you want, the truth is displayed!
xino(Quote)
Nephesh roi says
October 29, 2013 at 3:49 amYour comment – “So it is inspired, that is why there are contradictory verses and that is why people have different words in the bible.”
Response – If the Bible is so contradictory, with different words in it, WHY do YOU try to follow such a contradictory Book?!!! If parts of the Bible is not inspired, then even the statements on Jesus also could be NOT inspired!!!!!
You cannot know anything for sure!
“You are saved by faith” – this verse in the Bible also could be UNinspired!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
****
Your comment – “This is 1 example of contradictory verse in the bible.”
Response – I could not find anything contradictory in those accounts. They all say that the ladies went to the tomb on the fisrt day after the Sabbath and the tomb was open!
****
Your comment – “But didn’t Jesus actually bend the law? by walking on water? and what was the end result?:/”
Response – Jesus is the God who created the water. So in a miracle, through the power of God, He walked on the water.
You try to do it (provided you know swimming)!
****
Your comment – “So if I disobey the law, I will reap curses?”
Response – That is what the Bible says:
“the wages of sin is death” (Rom 6:23).
****
Your comment – “how come the sins I’ve been doing after my salvation and repentance had no curse effect on me?”
Response – Because your past sins are forgiven on account of Jesus and you are freed from the negative consequences!
****
Your comment – “So we will have consequences by breaking his laws. So why did he sent his son to die for us?”
Response – To save us from the consequences of breaking His laws!
****
Your comment – “If God is love and I broke one of his commandments, why do I need to reap curses?”
Response – For the same reason; when you break a traffic law, your car may get crashed!
****
Your comment – “With your teaching is EXACTLY why people turn to Atheist!”
Response – Ha ha, I never taught anyone, let alone an atheist.
Atheism is a state of mind; it is a mental status!
Atheism has to do with the “existence” of God. It has nothing to do with any law. Moreover, atheists do agree that there are physical laws that govern our universe!
****
Your comment – “As the bible says liars will not inherit the kingdom of God (by taking that verse out of context), and it is a sin to lie. So why did God spared her?”
Response – No one knows whether she ended up in the kingdom of God. If she has entered, then definitely she had “repented” both of her lies and her harlotry for she was a harlot!
****
Your comment – “lol…good luck trying to feed the 5000 children by your deeds!”
Response – lol … Mother Teresa fed more than 5000 children, yet she never robbed any bank!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
****
Your comment – “Paul kept teaching Law while we are under Grace, which is why readers gets confused!
For an example when you are a child of God, there’s no male or female, yet Paul goes back to the law putting men in authority over women. It is wrong.
He says we should die like a good soldier of Christ, how and why? when Jesus has done it all:/”
Response – This has clearly shown and proven that you have NOT understood Paul at all!!!!!!!! Then how can you say that Paul teaches that we do not need to obey God’s law?!!!!!!!!!
Sometimes you say Paul is right and NOW you say that Paul is WRONG!!!!!!!!! This shows you are the one who pick and chose whatever verses you like from Paul!!!!!!!
And you accuse me I am picking and chosing!!!!!!!!!!!! Great!!!!!!!!
****
Your comment – “So why did Jesus used the example of David eating the consecrated bread on the Sabbath?”
Response – There is no prohibition to eat bread on a Sabbath!!!
****
Your comment – “You just don’t want to deny it that Jesus broke the Sabbath.”
Response – Jesus never broke any Sabbath. Period!
Jesus asks you personally, Xino, “Can any of you prove Me guilty of sin?” (John 8:46)!!!!!!!!!!!
Try to answer to Him!
Nephesh roi(Quote)
Nephesh roi says
October 23, 2013 at 6:07 am“Do we, then, abolish the Law by this faith? Of course not! Instead, we uphold the Law.” (Rom 3:31)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“But will you know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?” (James 2:20).
Please know that “good works” and the “works of the Law” are entirely two different things in the Bible!!!
If you confuse the two, you will never learn the truth behind “law versus grace” controversy!
(Actually law never versus grace)!
Nephesh roi(Quote)
xino says
October 23, 2013 at 8:52 amBrother you are using the verses out of context and that is why you are getting yourself mixed up.
“Hebrews 8:10
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.”
God has put his laws in our hearts therefore we don’t need to obey the written law by Moses, that Law was for Moses and his followers, Israelites vowed they will follow God’s law and commandments and they couldn’t.
The James 2:20 you quoted was out of context.
That was talking about people who don’t do works by their faith.
If you go to church during winter time and you see a brother with no jacket and shaking because of the cold. You speak to him why he doesn’t have a jacket but everyone else does, he explains his financial situation.
Faith without works= you will say “don’t worry the Lord will bless you abundantly” and then move on your way.
Faith with works= you will buy the brother a jacket or give him your jacket.
That is what faith plus works means.
You can believe what you want brother.
I know I am not under the law because no one can keep the law, Jesus helps us and we are under Grace.
Please re-read Galatians 3.
xino(Quote)
Nephesh roi says
October 25, 2013 at 2:07 amYour comment – “Brother you are using the verses out of context and that is why you are getting yourself mixed up.”
Response – This has become a strategy for many Bible students that when they quote from the Bible it is always “in context” and when others especially from the opposite side quotes from the Bible it is always “out of context”!
I don’t follow that strategy and I am not mixed up.
***
Your comment – “God has put his laws in our hearts therefore we don’t need to obey the written law by Moses”
Response – There is a correction here: we are not asked to obey the written law by Moses. We are asked to obey the written law of God by God! The ten commandments are written by God NOT by Moses!
Besides, your logic is wrong!
If God has put His laws in our hearts that does not mean we can disobey the written law!!
So you mean to say that we should not do adultery in our heart but we can do it physically?!!!!!!!!!
That is a flawed logic!
***
Your comment – “that Law was for Moses and his followers”
Response – No, that law was even for the “foreigner/stranger” who were living with the Israelites!!
“One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.” (Exo 12:49)
***
Your comment – “Israelites vowed they will follow God’s law and commandments and they couldn’t.”
Response – Exactly! Israel though they vowed could not follow God’s law and commandments.
And that is why God made a second and better covenant with Israel so that the Christians with the help of the Holy Spirit should follow the laws and commandments of God!
If the Israelites kept the law and commandments there was no need for a second covenant (Hebrews 8:7-9)!
***
Your comment – “The James 2:20 you quoted was out of context.
That was talking about people who don’t do works by their faith.
……………………………………………………………
Faith without works= you will say “don’t worry the Lord will bless you abundantly” and then move on your way.
Faith with works= you will buy the brother a jacket or give him your jacket.
That is what faith plus works means.”
Response – Whoa! What an ability of great maneuvering!!!
All the time I was talking about faith with works and all the time you were talking about “faith alone” and “not works”. And now all of a sudden, in a spectacular move you have shifted side!
Great! So now you acknowledge that faith without good works is dead!
Mind you, regarding the ten commandments, Apostle Paul says that the law is good:
“So indeed the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and just and GOOD” (Rom 7:12).
So what the Holy Spirit inspires Paul to write as “Good” in the Bible canNOT be “bad” in practical life!!!!!!!!!
And this is the whole point I am trying to prove!
Thank you.
Nephesh roi(Quote)
xino says
October 25, 2013 at 7:06 amquoting bible out of context and in context is important. Seriously you have to acknowledge this! This is why Atheist and Muslims quote the bible out of context and use it against Christian if you allow this and this. If you are going to use the bible out of context you are just going to contradict yourself here and there. Best thing to do is to use the full context and then pick the corresponding or interlinking verse from that full context.
Because I can give you major examples of contradiction if you are going to play the “let’s pick the bible out of context”.
so why did Jesus break the fifth commandment which is to honour the sabbath day?
God’s command were given to Moses for the Israelites! If they were God’s command why did he had to give it to someone for the people? makes no sense. God’s command was “don’t eat from tree of knowledge of good and evil”, did God give that command to someone else to tell Adam? no.
If you are Born Again, you would not even want to sin for the Holy Spirit will convict you.
You will know the commands of God in your heart, you don’t need to follow anything that was written down. We are in the New Covenant. Do you know what the New Covenant is?
Oh..so if the law of Moses were for foreigners, why didn’t the Romans follow the Law? Where did the Israelites had to fight , Moabites?
My god! If God sent is Holy Spirit to allow us to follow the law then why do we have grace? where in the bible did it say the holy spirit will help us follow the commandment and law?
we have a new Covenant, we are no longer under the law but grace. Why don’t you get these things?
How can the Law be holy when it brings sin and death?
Listen we don’t have to follow Moses law, we live by faith. Holy Spirit convicts us when we do right and wrong. God’s law and commandments are already in our hearts, I don’t need to know that I need to worship God. God saved me so therefore I know I must worship him, it’s common sense.
Tell me, can one man bear fruit if he follows the law and commandments of God?
xino(Quote)
Nephesh roi says
October 26, 2013 at 4:57 amYour comment – “so why did Jesus break the fifth commandment which is to honour the sabbath day?”
Response – No, Jesus did NOT break Sabbath!!!
(Sabbath is in fact fourth commandment!)
Remember even when the false witnesses were struggling to accuse Jesus before the Sanhedrin at the time of Crucifixion, they did not accuse Jesus of breaking any Sabbath!
****
Your comment – “God’s command were given to Moses for the Israelites! If they were God’s command why did he had to give it to someone for the people? makes no sense.”
Response – No, God declared His ten commandments directly to the entire multitudes of Israel at mount in Sinai.
“These commands (the ten commandments) the LORD declared in a loud voice to your entire assembly on the mountain from out of the fire and dark clouds, and nothing more was added. He inscribed them on two tablets of stones and gave them to me.”
Please read Exodus chapter 20 and you will see the incident.
****
Your comment – “If you are Born Again, you would not even want to sin for the Holy Spirit will convict you.”
Response – If you do not want to sin, then you should know what sin is!!! You cannot know what sin is WITHOUT the law!!!
“for through the Law comes the full knowledge of sin.” (Rom 3:20)
“In fact, I wouldn’t have become aware of sin if it had not been for the Law. I wouldn’t have known what it means to covet if the Law had not said, “You must not covet.”” (Rom 7:7)
So, in short, you get a FULL knowledge of sin through the written ten commandments!!!!
(It is Paul who says all this).
****
Your comment – “You will know the commands of God in your heart, you don’t need to follow anything that was written down.”
Response – God will write in our hearts the same law He wrote on the stone tablets!!!
****
Your comment – “Oh..so if the law of Moses were for foreigners, why didn’t the Romans follow the Law?”
Response – I did not say “the law of Moses were for foreigners”!
I said the law of God were ALSO for the foreigners!!
If the original Israelites could not follow God’s law how can we expect the Romans to follow them?!
We need Holy Spirit to follow God’s spiritual laws (Rom 8:7)!!!!
****
Your comment – “My god! If God sent is Holy Spirit to allow us to follow the law then why do we have grace?”
Response – When God calls someone, that person is already a sinner and worth to be dead because of his past sins. So God’s grace is for our past sins.
Grace is not a license to commit more sins!!!
“But if you do not have them, you are so shortsighted that you cannot see and have forgotten that you have been purified from your past sins.” (2 Pet 1:9)
****
Your comment – “where in the bible did it say the holy spirit will help us follow the commandment and law?”
Response – “For the mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace; because the mind of the flesh is enmity towards God; for it is not being subjected to the Law of God, for neither can it be.” (Rom 8:6-7)
There it is!
The natural mind is NOT subject to the Law of God! It cannot be!!
The spiritual mind (the mind in which is God’s Holy Spirit) IS subject to the Law of God!!
****
Your comment – “How can the Law be holy when it brings sin and death?”
Response – Good question!
“So indeed the Law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.” (Rom 7:12)
Yes, then why does it bring sin and death?!!!
“For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am fleshly, having been sold under sin.” (Rom 7:14)
Do you see that?!
The real fault is NOT with the Law!!!
The fault is with our “natural” mind which is always against God and cannot keep the “spiritual” Law of God without the Holy Spirit from God!!!!!
The natural mind finds fault with spiritual law of God!
But God finds fault with the natural mind!
****
Your comment – “Listen we don’t have to follow Moses law, we live by faith.”
Response – No, we don’t have to follow Moses’ law. You are very much right!
But God expects us to follow God’s spiritual, holy, just and good law!!!
Nephesh roi(Quote)
xino says
October 26, 2013 at 9:32 amSo because the scribes did not accuse Jesus for breaking sabbath does that mean they didnt say it at the actual event. You will keep having problems with the bible if you just read how certain words are. Some words are metaphor, figurative, symbols etc. By reading the old testament you will find out many of the people uses similar speech such as “may god deal with me so severally if…”. Are you trying to say from 100 generations, the people would be using same similar words said by another from older 100 generations?
Well since you believe ALL words in bible are Gods words, I guess you know how to explain why certain books from bible were missing such as Book of Jaspher. Or why some words are missing in many translations:/
Tell me brothet, how come many sins mentioned by Paul in Ephesians and Galatians were not included in Moses La
Also you keep trying to differ Gods Law abd Moses Law.
You are not making any sense, God gave his law to Moses for tge the people of Israel! So whether you call it Moses Law or nit . It is still Gods law! The same with water baptism, they say it is John’s Water Baptism yet it came from God and was given by God therefore it is God’s water baptism.
Brother the problem is both. How come Jesus was obeying the Law right from birth without having the Holy Spirit?
If the law was holy and perfect then there’s no need for new covenant.
xino(Quote)
Nephesh roi says
October 28, 2013 at 4:53 amYour comment – “I guess you know how to explain why certain books from bible were missing such as Book of Jaspher.”
Response – Jesus and His apostles were comfortable without the Book of Jaspher.
So I am also comfortable without the Book of Jaspher!
****
Your comment – “Tell me brothet, how come many sins mentioned by Paul in Ephesians and Galatians were not included in Moses La”
Response – Be specific my brother. I don’t know what sins you mean.
****
Your comment – “Also you keep trying to differ Gods Law abd Moses Law.”
Response – Actually I am not the one who did it. It is done by God:
“And I will not again make the feet of Israel wander any more out of the land which I gave their fathers; only if they will be careful to do according to all that I have commanded them, and according to all the Law that My servant Moses commanded them.” (2 King 21:8)
****
Your comment – “How come Jesus was obeying the Law right from birth without having the Holy Spirit?”
Response – Jesus Had the Holy Spirit right from birth:
“And answering, the angel said to her, The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you, and for this reason that Holy One being born of you will be called Son of God.” (Luke 1:35)
****
Your comment – “If the law was holy and perfect then there’s no need for new covenant.”
Response – When the Bible emphatically says “the law is holy” why do you make it conditional with an “if”?!
The new covenant was made because of the erratic human factor and NOT because the law of God is not holy!!!!
Nephesh roi(Quote)
xino says
October 28, 2013 at 9:51 amSo it means you don’t know why the book of Jasper was not added. I wonder if you even know much about the bible history and how we have it today. Because if the bible is all God’s breath, then it’s funny how man has authority to change his words and even destroy many text.
If I give you 3 contradictory verses in the bible, do you think you can answer them all? I don’t think so because you ‘hand-pick’ verses to suit your needs and since you don’t know why other books such as book of jasper was not added to the bible, then you cannot answer the contradictory verses.
Galatians 5
“18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy,[d] drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. ”
Only ones who have Holy Spirit are not under the law.
Ephesians 5
“3 But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints. 4 Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving. ”
So tell me, what is the Law of God and the Law of Moses?
Jesus did not have the Holy Spirit from birth. If he did, then why did the Holy Spirit descend on him right after being baptised in water?
He was born by Holy Spirit’s power and blood of Mary.
The verse you quoted: Holy Spirit power will come upon Mary and she will be pregnant not Holy Spirit will come on Jesus because she was not even pregnant yet.
Why shouldn’t I add ‘if’? Can’t you answer the question or must you dodge every point that makes sense you can’t answer?
So the new covenant was made because of your answer.
And WHY was the new covenant made? what is the new covenant?
so the people could not obey both Law of God and Moses? yet you claim they are different.
So you are trying to say Law of God was Holy and Law of Moses is not holy.
is that your point?
xino(Quote)
Nephesh roi says
October 29, 2013 at 3:55 amYour comment – “Only ones who have Holy Spirit are not under the law.”
Response – Exactly! This is what I have been saying throughout!!
Those who have the Holy Spirit are NOT under the Law because “sin has no dominion over them” (Rom 6:14) and because they are “subject to the law of God” (Rom 8:6-7).
****
Your comment – “So tell me, what is the Law of God and the Law of Moses?”
Response – In the shortest words (to be elaborated later):
Law of God is the law God gave directly to Israel.
Law of Moses is the laws God gave to Israel through Moses.
****
Your comment – ” Jesus did not have the Holy Spirit from birth.”
Response – Jesus had the Holy Spirit from birth. It is NOT impossible because the Bible says regarding John the Baptist:
“And he (John the Baptist) will be filled of the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb. (Luke 1:15)
So if it is possible with John the Baptist to have the Holy Spirit right from the womb, it is much more possible for Jesus to be filled with the Holy Spirit right from the Conception itself!!!
****
Your comment – “If he did, then why did the Holy Spirit descend on him right after being baptised in water?”
Response – Good question!
Even John the Baptist had the same doubt: “But John tried to stop him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and are you coming to me?” (Mat 3:14)
But see what Jesus answered him: “Let it be this way for now, because this is the proper way for us to fulfill all righteousness.” (Mat 3:15)
See Jesus did NOT say I need to be filled with the Holy Spirit!
(Anyway John the Baptist was NOT baptizing with the Holy Spirit and none of the other people received the Holy Spirit through John)!!!
****
Question: Then why did the Holy Spirit descend on Jesus?
Answer: This was a sign to John the Baptist to identify the real Person!!!
“And I (John the B) did not know Him (Jesus), but the One sending me to baptize in water, that One said to me, On whomever you see the Spirit coming down and abiding on Him, this is the One baptizing in the Holy Spirit.” (John 1:33)
****
Your comment – “Why shouldn’t I add ‘if’?”
Response – Because the Bible does NOT add an “if”!!!!!!!!!!
The Bible simply states, “the Law is holy”!
****
Your comment – “So the new covenant was made because of your answer.”
Response – My answer is made in AD 2013 and the New Covenant was made around AD 30 (almost 2000 years before). So it cannot be because of my answer!
The New Covenant was made because of the erratic human factor in keeping the spiritual law of God!!!
Nephesh roi(Quote)
Nephesh roi says
October 25, 2013 at 2:56 amDear brother Xino,
You have two contradicted statements in your comments as given below:
CONTRADICTION # 1
Original statement “Please look at the Good Samaritan again. The preachers like you who follow the law could not even help the half dead beaten up guy, but a neighbour who does not follow the law was the only one to help the poor guy.”
(Here, quoting the Good Samaritan story, you mean to say that the Israelite priest and Levite followed the law).
Contradicted statement “Israelites vowed they will follow God’s law and commandments and they couldn’t.”
(Here, you say that the Israelites could not follow the law).
CONTRADICTION # 2
Original statement “we are saved through faith and the Just shall live by Faith! not by works!”
(Here you say that the just shall live by faith but NOT by works).
Contradicted statement “The James 2:20 you quoted was out of context.
That was talking about people who don’t do works by their faith.
Faith without works= you will say “don’t worry the Lord will bless you abundantly” and then move on your way.
Faith with works= you will buy the brother a jacket or give him your jacket.
That is what faith plus works means.”
(Here you say that faith needs to be backed up by works!!!).
Nephesh roi(Quote)
xino says
October 25, 2013 at 7:46 amThere’s no contradiction in my statement, you did not understood what I was trying to say.
But I’ll explain it lightly.
How can the Pharisees and scribes claim to fully follow God’s commandments and law when they bound the law to people’s lives?
Part of Moses law is cleansing. Pharisees forces people to wash their hands before they eat.
So imagine there is a draught and there’s no water in town, and you are dying of hunger. Yet the law says you must cleanse yourself before eating.
Will you obey that law or break that law?
brother, how can you obey the law when there’s no water to cleanse your hands with? you will die!
but if you want to preserve your life, you have to break the law! and eat without washing your hands. (Please read Matthew 15)
Law and commandment are not there for us to follow, they are there to allow us to live in peace and a careful life.
example:
You took an adopted son to your mansion, you gave him house rules such as:
*don’t open the door to anyone.
*don’t ever pick up the phone
*don’t touch anything with glass
*don’t go into the garage
Now that adopted son would think those are rules for him to follow in order to live in that house.
No you are not placing that rule because he is yours at will, control and command. You are placing that will for his welfare and survival.
-if he opens the door, he doesn’t know who he would let him or trick him so he endangers himself
-if he picks up the phone, he may be groomed and tricked, so he endangers himself
-if he touches anything with glass and he breaks it, he destroys valuable expensive item, he can step on the glass and also you can step on hidden broken glass
-if he goes to the garage, he might touch something that can kill him or something may fall on him.
Do you get the purpose and concept of having the law?
Law brings sin and death so how can it be Holy or good?
Whoever sins deserves death and will be held punishable by God.
Law was introduced so that Israelite can follow God and also live a good life.
Polygamy is a sin, yet it was not before Moses came.
Incest is a sin, yet it was not before Moses came.
Do you know why?
If God introduced the same law back in Abraham and Noah’s time, how could they spread all over the world?
The Israelites lost all knowledge when they were in capture in EGypt, when God took them out of Egypt, he gave them rules (just like the Mansion rule example), so that all Israelites can live in peace amongst themselves. It was not a rule to govern or command!
Rape is a sin, if there were no law on this, the Israelites would be raping each other in the desert. That is why God placed a law for them in desert so there can be Order and Peace.
Should I explain the concept of the Good Samaritan?
The priest if he touches the dead body will remain unclean therefore he cannot help the poor guy. The same goes to the Levite, the man was not a jew and was unclean. And God said they should not associate with outsiders.
But a samaritan who does not follow the law or NOT bound by the law was able to help him.
(It is the same concept of the draught water in a town and you being hungry. )
This is exactly WHY Jesus was trying to teach the Pharisees about them infusing laws into peoples live.
Listen if Israelites could follow ALL of Moses Law, Jesus did not have to come down and die on the cross to fulfil them.
Contradiction 2:
I’m going to lay down a simple example of what I meant by striving works and good works:
A brother of mine said he was not reading the bible much or praying much, and yet he gave a testimony of him performing a miracle through God. A doctors report of his friend said she has blood issue problem, when he prayed for her friend and by believing what Jesus had done on the cross and his love. The doctor said there was nothing wrong with her after a few days.
Opposing to me, I tried to read my bible every day and always tried to pray 1 hour everyday, so how come God used someone doing ELSE “striving/works” than me doing MORE “striving/works”?
Because I do not understand God’s love! This is what MANY Christians fail to understand. Many say “you need to fast all the time, if you don’t God wouldn’t bless you”. This is a wrong teaching!
God is our father, why should a father demand you clean the house, do house chores and fix broken things in house when he died for you? He wants to bless you, he loves you so much that he had to sent his son to die for you!
We always misunderstand the concept of the Love of God.
This is what it means Habakkuk “the just shall live by faith” NOT by works.
I was living by my works, thinking praying 1 hour a day, reading bible every day, will make God use me.
But a brother of mine who lived according to the faith Holy Spirit gave him, God used mightily!
Our works cannot get us to heaven, it is through Jesus.
Why did Jesus say is yoke is light and not burdensome?
If I MUST obey the laws and commandments, therefore there’s no difference because the same amount of work required to follow them in the past will remain right now.
Faith needs to be backed up by good works NOT by your works. (good works is fruits of the Spirit)
Getting rich is not a sin. If you are not rich how can you give tithing and offering to church? help a brother or sister? or even help the poor?
If you are poor, you giving away your money to help others will cause more strain on you.
If you make money your God then it is wrong.
Another example of your works and good works.
You lost your job, instead of relying on “Jesus has done it all on the cross”, you go around asking people if they have any jobs, asking friends if they can hire you. This is your works/striving. By relying on FAITH, you will get the job by doing LESS because Jesus had prepared it for you.
A brother was hungry, you say to him “don’t worry, by having faith the Lord will provide you food to eat”. Whereas you HAD money to go and buy him food! If you had went to buy him food, the words you said that “having faith the lord will provide you food to eat” has been fulfilled.
Sometimes when we think of miracles, we imagine a special delivery package will come from heaven. Not so, God uses everyone to fulfil our prayers and his will.
God used YOU to fulfil that hungry brother’s faith prayer.
I am sorry my post is long but please read them carefully to fully understand.
I used to read the bible like you, but my pastor changed my overview of reading the bible and understanding God’s nature.
xino(Quote)
xino says
October 25, 2013 at 7:59 amIf you have time to read this, you don’t have to:
This is another example of my lack of understanding the Bible and God’s works.
In the bible says “be Holy for I Am Holy”, many of course will say we have to be holy because God says so.
So 2013, my prosperity for this year was to be more holy, By fasting every 3 days once a month, reading as much chapters of the bible I can and making sure I pray more times a day.
*Any day in the month I would fast for 3 days
*I would make sure I spend 2-3 hours reading the bible every day or just making sure I read up to 5 chapters a day
*I would pray almost 5 times a day, sometimes 3 times.
All these are all strivings/works, I am not dwelling in God’s love but rather than my works.
Why was I doing this? because I was trying to please God, obey him and make sure if does not get disappointed with me. This kind of mentality is what MANY Christians have today!
My pastor taught me (and still is) many great things.
Even I knew myself that it was so difficult with the fasting. Why did I waste my time to fast? I only did it to get myself skinner! God wants to bless me abundantly yet I am refusing to eat and growing skinny.
Jesus said his yoke is light and burdensome, yet I force myself to read the bible, (occasionally I would even fall asleep because of these striving). Always trying to pray every time, even going to the toilet at my work place! For what? when half the time my prayer are always the same thing and blabbering!
All these are based on my strivings, I am just putting MORE loads on myself like the Pharisees did to the people.
Now I live by my faith which was prophesied in the bible by Habakkuk, I live under Jesus Grace, Father’s love and Holy Spirit guidance.
I no longer strive.
Father LOVES me SO MUCH that he sent is only son to die for me so that I should not perish!
IMAGINE that. God who is infinite, and created the angels zillions of ages ago, angels who had been serving him faithfully. Disobeyed him and rose up against him.
God did not forgive! Now they are in darkness and will be tormented day and night.
While someone like me who was created first day and within hours or next day, I disobeyed him.
He says “choose life or death”, yet we ALL keep choosing death.
As the bible says, he is slow to anger. So slow to anger that he kept doing this and that just to keep us under his track and love!
And his ULTIMATE love to sent his son to die for us.
Father loves me so much and wants to bless me.
Why do I need to entertain him? please him? or 100% always trying to obey him while I’m made with an imperfect body?
How can a robot get emotion when he was not designed to have emotion?
it is the same with us humans. We are not glorified and not made perfect yet we try to be holy as perfect.
Let people who wants to please, obey and entertain God. I will dwell in his love and live under faith NOT by my works.
xino(Quote)
Nephesh roi says
October 26, 2013 at 5:02 amYour comment – “Yet the law says you must cleanse yourself before eating.
Will you obey that law or break that law?”
Response – Where does it say in the Law?
****
Your comment – “(Please read Matthew 15)”
Response – Your misunderstanding is unlimited!!!
Jesus is talking about their many “additions” of HUMAN traditions to the Law! The Pharisees had many human traditions added to the law!
“But He answered and said to them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?” (Mat 15:3)
For example, they broke the 5th commandment by their tradition of “wavering responsibilty”. This tradition of “wavering responsibility” is NOT there in the Law!
Jesus continues, “For God commanded, “Honor your father and your mother,” and, “Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.” But you say, “If anyone tells his father or his mother, “What you would have gained from me is given to God,” he need not honor his father.” So for the sake of your tradition you have made void the word of God. You hypocrites!”
Do you see how strongly Jesus stresses the importance of keeping the ten commandments!!!!!!!!!!
So, in short, Jesus never broke any law of God!
But He broke many of the additional human traditions of the Pharisees!!!
The Jews had many human additions to the Sabbath also which was not provided in the original Law.
Jesus broke these additional human traditions of Sabbath. But He never broke the actual commandment of Sabbath. Never!
****
Your comment – “Should I explain the concept of the Good Samaritan?
The priest if he touches the dead body will remain unclean therefore he cannot help the poor guy.”
Response – Nonsense!
First of all, the victim was NOT a dead body!!!
In fact, the Law says the opposite of what you assume:
“If there is a poor man among you, one of your brothers inside any of your gates in your land which Jehovah your God is giving to you, you shall not harden your heart, nor shut your hand from your needy brother. But opening you shall open your hand to him, and lending you shall lend him enough for his need in that which he lacks.” (Deut 15:7-8)
So the Levite and the priest were NOT following the Law as given in God’s Word!!!
Nephesh roi(Quote)
xino says
October 26, 2013 at 2:20 pm:/
read all the commands God gave about remaining unclean. If you are unclean you have to cleanse yourself or you cannot eat and will be cut off from people.
the victim was half dead:/
the verse you quoted still does not justify the good Samaritan parable.
Was the beaten man poor? no because Deut 15:7-8 is talking about being poor.
Once again why did the priest and levi ignored this man if you want to use this verse?
it means they were not following the law of God/Moses, yet you said yourself they were loving their neighbour.
This will get us no where.
All you will do is jump back n forte using out of context verses to suit your interpretation.
xino(Quote)
Nephesh roi says
October 28, 2013 at 4:55 amYour comment – “read all the commands God gave about remaining unclean. If you are unclean you have to cleanse yourself or you cannot eat and will be cut off from people.”
Response – I repeat; where does it say in the Law that you cannot eat without washing?
****
Your comment – “the victim was half dead:/”
Response – Well, the Law does NOT prevent any Levite or priest from touching a half dead person because the half dead person is still alive!!!
****
Your comment – “the verse you quoted still does not justify the good Samaritan parable.
Was the beaten man poor? no because Deut 15:7-8 is talking about being poor.”
Response – Yes, the beaten man was poor because he was robbed of his possessions including the clothings on the way. Besides, Deut 15:7-8 talks about “needy brother”. The beaten man was a needy brother!
Perhaps the priest and the Levite thought the same wrong thing you thought; that the beaten man was not poor and Deut 15:7-8 does not apply to him so no need to help him!!!!
But the Samaritan who knew both Lev 19:18 and Deut 15:7-8 applied the same and helped the needy brother!
He obeyed the real law of love!!!
****
Your comment – “it means they were not following the law of God/Moses, yet you said yourself they were loving their neighbour.”
Response – Correct, they were NOT following the law of God. They did not love their needy neighbor! (They were supposed to follow the law of God and love their neighbor)!
But the Samaritan followed the law of God!
Nephesh roi(Quote)
xino says
October 28, 2013 at 8:38 amI think you are misunderstanding the laws itself.
if you touch anything unclean you have to wash yourself, what part of that ceremony cleaning don’t you understand? So when people touch anything unclean they had to cleanse themselves.
There are 613 Mosaic Laws, how can someone follow them all or remember them all? Even the Scribes and Pharisees don’t even remember them all.
So in case they touched anything unclean without knowing, they had to cleanse themselves just in case!
How is he still alive? you do know we add what we call conciousness and unconsciousness to people right?
OH Now you are changing your words! Didn’t you say both of them obeyed the law? now you are changing it to “the guy was poor so they couldn’t help him”. You still are not making any sense.
They are priests and Levi, they claim to follow God’s law which they did!
They didn’t want to touch the man, because it would make them unclean.
The Samaritan was not even a Jew (for Jews and Samaritans do not get along together), so how could he know anything about Law of God/Moses? Only Jewish people follow the Law.
I don’t think you understand the Good Samaritan parable.
The purpose is, the Good samaritan was not living by the law or under the law, he did not even know the laws. But out of his COMPASSION, as the bible says, was the reason why he helped!
Yes the law says you should help a needy brother, but Samaritans who do not know the law could not even know what that means.
Purpose of what Jesus was trying to say is:
Like Paul said. If a believer does not help his family, he is worst than an unbeliever. So much Atheist can at least help their family shows they are worthy more than an unhelpful believer.
Same way if a wicked father can give his children bread instead of snake.
Keep choosing verses out of context, you will just get yourself mixed up.
xino(Quote)
Nephesh roi says
October 29, 2013 at 3:59 amYour comment – “if you touch anything unclean you have to wash yourself”
Response – Oh boy, the poor needy beaten man was NOT unclean!
****
Your comment – “OH Now you are changing your words! Didn’t you say both of them obeyed the law?”
Response – I never said the priest and the Levite obeyed the law!!! I said they did NOT follow or obey the law!!!
It is you who said they followed the law, not me!!!
(All my comments are there, so please show me where I said they obeyed!)
****
Your comment – “They are priests and Levi, they claim to follow God’s law which they did!”
Response – They are priests and Levi, they claim to follow God’s law which they did NOT!
****
Your comment – “The Samaritan was not even a Jew (for Jews and Samaritans do not get along together), so how could he know anything about Law of God/Moses? Only Jewish people follow the Law.”
Response – The Samaritans had the first five books of Moses. So they knew everything about Law of God/Moses.
The Samaritans have the first five books of Moses even today and they are the only people who still sacrifice lambs to God. Not even the Jews do that today!
****
Your comment – “Yes the law says you should help a needy brother, but Samaritans who do not know the law could not even know what that means.”
Response – The good Samaritan knew all about Lev 19:18 and Deut 15:7-8!!!
****
Your comment – “Purpose of what Jesus was trying to say is:
Like Paul said. If a believer does not help his family, he is worst than an unbeliever.”
Response – Purpose of what I am trying to say is:
Like Paul said. If a believer does not help his family, he is disobeying the fifth commandment and thus is NOT loyal to God, he is worse than an unbeliever!!!
Nephesh roi(Quote)
Netlace says
April 17, 2016 at 10:28 pmNephews…. I agree fully with you. Well said!
Hebrews 4:8 Kjv only ( read all Hebrews 4 if you can’t understand)
Netlace(Quote)
Netlace says
April 17, 2016 at 10:32 pmNephesh not Nephews ( auto correct )
Netlace(Quote)
Netlace says
April 17, 2016 at 10:58 pmI added the scripture for the benefit of others. Not directly to you. I love your comments..
Netlace(Quote)
Jero Jones says
October 23, 2013 at 9:36 amPrynhawn Da/Good Afternoon and Hi
And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. -Matthew 19:16-17.
As a history researcher the above verses have titillated me for as long as I can remember, it was one of the first things I wrote about on a history project. There is not one Christian church, which can say that they have never broken any of the commandments. I am not picking on the Roman Church, but, it for a start has broken all of the so-called commandments, and more. Early popes have killed, and the church has kill so-called heretics since its conception in 380 right through tp the 1940’s. With a past unprecedented in its brutality, of the worst atrocities that mankind has ever known, or will ever see in the future. With an estimated 50 million so called innocent lives being lost between years 606-1853 on charges of heresy alone.[History of Romanism, pp. 541-542, by John Dowling (1853 edition)] The aforementioned figure does not take into account the periods from when early Christianity split from the Jewish religion in the early 2nd century to 380, and then from 380-606, and 1853-1946. Periods of history, which have been well documented of papal involvement in massacres and murders of the innocent, as Rome was still very much active in its persecutions in the name of its God(s)! We know that Damasus I (366-84), as a deacon committed murder in 366, when he hired a gang of thugs, to kill a rival deacon for the position of bishop of Rome. Damasus’ thugs massacred 137 rival supporters in a three day orgy of blood.[The Oxford Dictionary of popes, pp.32-3, by JND Kelly (1987 edition)]
The list is endless of popes calling for the murder of taking part in the heinous crime, however, there was a pope who was a pope killer, he was Boniface VII (974: 984-5), who had two popes murdered by strangulation (Popes Benedict VI (973-74) and Benedict VII (974-83)), as well as having cardinal deacon blinding. Boniface also stole part of the papal treasure, when escaping to Byzantine territory in the south of Italy.[Ibid pp, 130-33] Today, the papacy is in trouble, this time with a worldwide paedophile ring of priest, a problem which is not a modern one, church documents going back to the very earl 4th century, raise concerns about sexual activity of the clergy.
Canon 18. Bishops, presbyters, and deacons, once they have taken their place in the ministry, shall not be given communion even at the time of death if they are guilty of sexual immorality. Such scandal is a serious offence.[The Synod/Council of Elvira (Iberia/Spain) c. 306 CE. The year is approximate, as the year of the synod cannot be determined with accuracy?] Of the eighty one (81) canons recorded at the Council of Elvira c. 306, the scholar Maurice Meigne, argues that the aforesaid council issued only the first twenty one (21) canons: the other canons were added to the collection at a later date, probably they came from the other Iberian councils (Spain).
However, the catholic church is not alone in sexual abuse cases, the Anglican (Protestant) church also has files on sexual predictor priest, however, the scale is nowhere near that of the Catholic church.
If the church cannot keep the 10 commandment, how do they expect their adherents.
Regards Jero Jones Mab Cymru
Jero Jones(Quote)
Beginning and End says
November 3, 2013 at 4:12 amHi Jero,
The point of the article was not to say we must keep the 10 commandments. It was to show that Jesus was explaining that no one can keep the commandments. Your point only underscores the problems all of humanity faces – we are all sinners, who will be judged by The Lord one day and found guilty. Unless we have a Savior. And that is the point of this story in Scripture and the article – it is faith in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of our sins that saves us and nothing more.
Beginning and End(Quote)
Michael Kampff says
October 23, 2013 at 7:27 pmGreat article. Very clear about scripture that is widely misunderstood. Thanks!
Michael Kampff(Quote)
Beginning and End says
November 3, 2013 at 4:08 amThanks very much. Praise Jesus that we are in agreement on this chapter. God bless. -B&E
Beginning and End(Quote)
xino says
October 31, 2013 at 3:52 pmlol…
why should the poor guy wash himself?
do you even know why God said Jews should not touch anything dead?
yes they did because they shouldn’t touch anything unclean as the law commands!
you must be a Jew yourself since you know so much about the laws, jews, moses and samaritans.
phss.
The very same bible says you should not trust your family.
the very bible says if family ask you to serve other gods, you are to put them to death.
So if I trust what the bible says by staying away from my family and not helping them.
Am I justified that I broke the 5th commandments?
xino(Quote)
Nephesh roi says
November 2, 2013 at 1:23 amYour comment — “lol…
why should the poor guy wash himself?”
Response — Where did I say the poor guy should wash himself?!
****
Your comment — “phss.
The very same bible says you should not trust your family.
the very bible says if family ask you to serve other gods, you are to put them to death.
So if I trust what the bible says by staying away from my family and not helping them.
Am I justified that I broke the 5th commandments?”
Response — You are unnecessarily complicating simple things! The natural justice teaches that when two laws are at conflict, then the higher law shall prevail!
There is an example in the Bible itself.
“For the Lord’s sake submit yourselves to every human authority: whether to the king as supreme, or to governors who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to praise those who do right. For it is God’s will that by doing right you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish people.” (2 Pet 2:13-15).
Here Apostle Peter advices us to be obedient to human authority.
Yet the same Peter when threatened by the Jewish authority of Sanhedrin not to preach the Gospel, replied:
“It is right to obey God rather than man.” (Acts 5:29)
Nephesh roi(Quote)
xino says
October 31, 2013 at 4:15 pmNo that is not what you are saying. you are saying we have to follow the law.
And I am saying we don’t have to, we live by faith!
lol…you make no sense at all!
Because of your “verse picking” you don’t even know what you explain.
You say “Law of God is the law God gave directly to Israel | Law of Moses is the laws God gave to Israel through Moses.”
What is the difference? no difference!
How can God give a law directly to Israel? was Israel the ones at Mount Sinar? no, therefore God did not give it to them directly!
“Saying Law of Moses is the law God gave to Israel through Moses”, you are not making any sense! If that’s the case then it means it is God’s law! Because God gave the law to Moses for the Israelites!
If Moses was the one making the laws on his own then it IS his OWN law!
In the end…all law were from God.
That verse was implying to John not Jesus. No you are using your imagination and that is not what the bible says. Bible did not say what you imply so stop adding your words to Bible. Why should Jesus be filled with Holy Spirit and then have Holy Spirit descend on him???
Once again, your confusion.
John already said Jesus will baptise us with spirit and fire and that was why he refused Jesus baptism at first because he was expecting him to baptise him since Jesus had arrived.
Why was Jesus Baptised? to receive the Holy Spirit by a baptism God prepared through John and so that people can witness that Jesus IS the messiah to come.
and the bible does not add human logic like you put your own logic to it.
yea…i’m sure it was.
And to point to you another law Jesus broke, it was the law not to touch dead.
Jesus touched dead people- Jarius daughter, and he remained unclean yet did not wash.
But why did Jesus broke these laws? to show people that he is here, bible has spoke about him. And there isn’t any more curse because of the law, now there is grace.
But the Pharisees (like you) wants to enforce the law into people’s life. Jesus was trying to say the law now is for welfare living and order and way to live.
If you enforce the law into someone’s life how can you do what is right or God’s will?
LAW TEACHES
Exodus 22:1 ESV
“If a man steals an ox or a sheep, and kills it or sells it, he shall repay five oxen for an ox, and four sheep for a sheep.
JESUS TEACHES
if you neighbour steals your things, do not demand it back, let him have it.
why did Jesus say that? because it is the same God who blesses you to have that thing in the first place, what is wrong with God replacing it or giving it back to you double?
But you Nephesh will say we should stick to the law.
xino(Quote)
Nephesh roi says
November 2, 2013 at 1:26 amYour comment — “No that is not what you are saying. you are saying we have to follow the law.”
Response — I am not the one who says that; it is Apostle Paul who says that!!!
Only people who have received the Holy Spirit can follow the law in faith!!!
The mind that has NOT received the Holy Spirit is a “natural mind” which IS “enmity towards God” and “it is not being subjected to the Law of God, for neither can it be” (Rom 8:7)
This is NOT my personal opinion; it is there in the Bible!
****
Your comment — “And I am saying we don’t have to, we live by faith!”
Response — But faith without good works is dead!!!
And Jesus is dead against people who propagate “lawlessness” (Mat 7:23, 13:41)!!!
Besides, Apostle Paul says that Jesus Christ has saved us from all lawlessness!!!
“waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from ALL LAWLESSNESS and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works. Declare these things; exhort and rebuke with all authority. Let no one disregard you.” (Titus 2:13-15)
If Jesus has redeemed us from all lawlessness, why do you say that we should remain/continue lawless in faith?!!!
****
Your comment — “How can God give a law directly to Israel? was Israel the ones at Mount Sinar? no, therefore God did not give it to them directly!”
Response — Yes, God gave His ten commandments directly to Israel!
Yes, Israel was the ones at mount Sinai!
Please read Exodus chapter 20 fully to get to know this truth! Even Moses witnessed to this truth in Deuternomy!
You again fail to see the importance God is giving to His spiritual laws vis-à-vis other ceremonial laws!
****
Your comment — “If Moses was the one making the laws on his own then it IS his OWN law!
In the end…all law were from God.”
Response — Wow! You have started to understand things slowly!!!
Yes, the Bible teaches that God is the only Lawgiver and Judge! (James 4:12)
So every law, including circumcision and animal sacrifices, ultimately came from God. So, technically, it is wrong for us to say Mosaic law. Yet, people say Mosaic law to distinguish between the spiritual laws of God and other laws.
Yes, all laws come from God, yet the same God has shown a difference in importance when He gave His spiritual laws of ten commandments directly to Israel!!!
****
Your comment — “Why should Jesus be filled with Holy Spirit and then have Holy Spirit descend on him???”
Response — Why do you think it impossible when the Bible has several examples to show such a possibility!
One example; on the day of Pentecost, the Apostles including Peter “were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak in other languages, as the Spirit gave ability to them to speak.” (Acts 2:4)
But, again later, we see Peter getting filled with the Holy Spirit!!!
“Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them” (Acts 4:8)
So we see Apostle Peter being filled with the Holy Spirit on two occasions!!!
Why?
Because God “gives the Spirit without measure” (John 3:34)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
****
Your comment — “And to point to you another law Jesus broke, it was the law not to touch dead.
Jesus touched dead people- Jarius daughter, and he remained unclean yet did not wash.”
Response — First, the daughter of Jairus just died and Jesus brought her back to life immediately.
Second, since Jairus’ daughter lived afterwards, she cannot be considered as a dead body!
****
Your comment — “But the Pharisees (like you) wants to enforce the law into people’s life.”
Response — The Pharisees (UNlike me) wanted to enforce the additional human traditions into people’s lives!
****
Your comment — “Jesus was trying to say the law now is for welfare living and order and way to live.”
Response — The law was always for the welfare living and order and way to live!
Also, see you yourself have said that Jesus was trying to say the law NOW is for welfare living and order and way to live!!!
Well, if “the law NOW is for welfare living and order and way to live”, why should not we follow it?!!!
Well, if we do not follow this law, how “the welfare living and order and way to live” is possible?!!!
****
Your comment — “If you enforce the law into someone’s life how can you do what is right or God’s will?”
Response — No body can force anyone to follow God’s laws. Even God does not force anyone to follow Him! It is a choice God has given to each. We voluntarily either obey God or disobey God.
But, God’s Will is expressed in His spiritual laws!!!
‘You shall not steal – this IS God’s Will!
‘It is okay to rob a bank – this is NOT God’s Will!!
****
Your comment — “JESUS TEACHES
if you neighbour steals your things, do not demand it back, let him have it.”
Response — Please do not twist the Bible. Jesus did not mention about stealing here!!!
“And if someone takes you to court to sue you for your shirt, let him have your coat as well.” (Mat 5:40)
There is no stealing involved here as you twisted!!!
****
Your comment — “But you Nephesh will say we should stick to the law.”
Response — All I am saying is that a Christian after receiving the Holy Spirit should keep the spiritual laws contained in the ten commandments through faith!
In fact, God gives the Holy Spirit only to those who “OBEY” Him (Acts 5:32)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nephesh roi(Quote)
xino says
November 2, 2013 at 8:22 amSo because Paul says so, you do what he says?
so who should you follow? Paul or Jesus?
Paul is a lawman, he knows the Law so well, and for him to be converted to Christian, of course he still has some habit of law inside of him even though he knows he’s not under law. He couldn’t help it.
It is just like many converts, when they are Born Again. Some habits they still have will be retained, it will take time before they loose that habit.
When we are born again, there’s no male or female for we are all 1 and treated equally. But because Paul is a lawman and so used to the law, he often quotes that man is above woman. Which till this day is why there are discords in churches because they all choose to listen to Paul rather than Jesus.
Paul says you should not associate with sinners yet he says we should in other verses.
Half the time Paul was confused on what he was writing.
The term Inspired means Holy Spirit ALLOWS the writers to remember events so they write it down. Inspired does not mean “GOD BREATHS AND THE BIBLE IS A LIVING WORD, EVERY WORD IS OF GOD’S”. Yes…i’m sure Moses who wrote “in the beginning God created Heaven and Earth” means God was the one writing it:/
No the WORDS God spoke in the bible are the living words! They are the words we proclaim that causes effect. The promises of God in bible are living not what paul says “i baptised xxx, oh yea I also baptised xxx, and not to mention the family of xxx” How can that be inspired???
Bible is inspired that is why 4 gospel has different resurrection dates of Jesus.
And you could not even answer that contradiction passage. You are just one who wants to believe what you want to believe and spread the doctrine.
When you are ready to discuss the real MEAT of the bible and why Muslims and Athiest know better than 65% Christians, then come contact me. In the mean time you are just “i take bible verses out of context to prove myself”.
lol…you sound like a Jehovah’s witness. They believe you need to get to heaven by their works.
i don’t get what you mean there, or maybe you don’t understand what i’m saying or you don’t know what titus 2 means about Jesus redeeming us from lawlessness.
How can Israel be there when God told Moses no one from Israel should approach him or they would die? It was Moses who got the 10 commandments twice.
so you admit yourself everything is from God, so why do you yourself differentiate that we have Moses Law and God’s law? you are the one just going back n forte.
my god! I already told you bible has figure of speech, metaphor, simile, symbols. If you just read the bible as it is, you’ll get confused! All Apostles were already filled with Holy Spirit in power.
When bible says he was filled with Holy Spirit just meant he was HIGH in spirit!
Ephesians 5:18 ESV
“And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit,”
Which in another words mean, be HIGH in spirit rather than wine.
you know the problem with you is that you love to twist the scripture to your understanding. I will not be partaking in anymore discussions. You just don’t want to learn, you feel that you know it all.
And I take it you do not learn the bible from anyone else or pastors. Because if you are learning from them you will not take verses out of context that makes no sense.
I’ve learned from different people and they have their own views of bible. But right now I’m learning directly from my Pastor.
Jesus was saying the Law was there for welfare and peace but without the curse. But we should not impute the law into people’s lives that governs them. That is what you fail to understand. The law has been written in our lives, you don’t have to obey it by force for we automatically obey it without knowing through our faith.
I already gave you examples about the feeding of 5000 children, lying and eating in a town. But you fail to understand the concept.
lol…you want to follow God’s law, but have no idea about him or his love. Go, go follow his laws.
” 42 Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.”
So when someone ask you for his hover and does not want to return it, is that stealing or not?
“In fact, God gives the Holy Spirit only to those who “OBEY” Him”
then you are confused my friend.
he gives his Holy Spirit to whosoever believes in Jesus and accepted the Gospel.
good day and good bye. You can reply to me as you please for I will not read them or reply to you.
You take bible out of context that you jump from one end to another.
xino(Quote)
Nephesh roi says
November 4, 2013 at 4:36 amYour comment — “so who should you follow? Paul or Jesus?”
Response — That certainly is a meaningless question because Paul says:
“Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ.” (1 Cor 11:1)
****
Your comment — “Paul is a lawman, he knows the Law so well, and for him to be converted to Christian, of course he still has some habit of law inside of him even though he knows he’s not under law. He couldn’t help it.”
Response — You have proven again that you know NOTHING about Paul!!!
You do not make any sense because of the following reasons:
Firstly, Paul was NOT doing any philsophical musings on Gospel, things which he thought was right. He never talked about things of Gospel which he thought was right at that time but changed later when his thinking changed!!!
He says, “Let me tell you, my friends, that the GOSPEL I preach is NOT OF HUMAN ORIGIN.” (Gal 1:11)
So he himself claims that his writings are of divine origin!!!
Secondly, Paul says whatever he teaches on Gospel was taught to him by Jesus through revelation!!! He never thought it over by himself over a period of time so that his ideas improved! Never! He says how he got the eternal Gospel:
“I did not receive it from any human being, nor did anyone teach it to me. It was Jesus Christ Himself who revealed it to me.” (Gal 1:12)
Since “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow” His revelation does not change over time!
Thirdly, much of his epistles are written towards the end of his life. He was converted as a young man and lived comparatively a long life. So his epistles were written after he was completely convinced of the Gospel so that nothing was to be changed later!
Fourthly, Apostle Peter compares Paul’s epistles AT PAR with the Old Testament Scriptures (2 Pet 3:16)!!!
In short, Peter considers Paul’s writings as binding on Christians as the Scriptures!!!
So your thoughts on Paul are all wrong!!!
****
Your comment — “Half the time Paul was confused on what he was writing.”
Response — Lo, here is someone who thinks himself greater than an Apostle (Paul) of Christ!!!
Dear Xino, if you think half the time Paul was confused, then why do you adamantly follow his writings on faith?!!!!!!!!!!
If I follow your argument then his writings on faith also were as confused!!!
“We are saved by faith not by works” – this also could be a product of his confusion!!!!!!!!!!!!! You cannot make sure that Paul wrote it convincingly!!!!!!!! You will never know anything for sure as to what Paul is actually saying!!!!!
Please stop this crazy teachings!
Paul was not at all confused! He knew what he was writing. He never taught any human ideas. He was taught directly by Jesus Christ!
“This is also what our dear friend Paul said when he wrote you with the wisdom that God had given him. Paul talks about these same things in all his letters, but part of what he says is hard to understand. Some ignorant and unsteady people even destroy themselves by twisting what he said. They do the same thing with other Scriptures too.” (2 Pet 3:15-16)
****
Your comment — “Inspired does not mean “GOD BREATHS AND THE BIBLE IS A LIVING WORD, EVERY WORD IS OF GOD’S”.”
Response — “ALL SCRIPTURE IS GOD-BREATHED” (2 Tim 3:16)
****
Your comment — “Bible is inspired that is why 4 gospel has different resurrection dates of Jesus.”
Response — 4 gospels have the same resurrection date!
****
Your comment — “lol…you sound like a Jehovah’s witness. They believe you need to get to heaven by their works.”
Response — Again, your information is wrong!
Jehovah’s witnesses do NOT teach to follow the law of God. Importantly they do NOT follow the Sabbath!!! They never did!!!
****
Your comment — “How can Israel be there when God told Moses no one from Israel should approach him or they would die? It was Moses who got the 10 commandments twice.”
Response — “These words (the 10 C) the LORD spoke to all your assembly at the mountain out of the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and he added no more. And he wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.
“And as soon as you heard the voice out of the midst of the darkness, while the mountain was burning with fire, you came near to me, all the heads of your tribes, and your elders.
“And you said, ‘Behold, the LORD our God has shown us his glory and greatness, and we have heard his voice out of the midst of the fire. This day we have seen God speak with man, and man still live.
“Now therefore why should we die? For this great fire will consume us. If we hear the voice of the LORD our God any more, we shall die.
“For who is there of all flesh, that has heard the voice of the living God speaking out of the midst of fire as we have, and has still lived?
“Go near and hear all that the LORD our God will say and speak to us all that the LORD our God will speak to you, and we will hear and do it.'” (Deut 5:22-27)
****
Your comment — “so you admit yourself everything is from God, so why do you yourself differentiate that we have Moses Law and God’s law?”
Response — I am not the one who did the differentiation.
It is God Himself who differentiated to show the importance of His spiritual laws of ten commandments above all other kinds of laws.
****
Your comment — “If you just read the bible as it is, you’ll get confused!”
Response — May be that is why you are so confused about Paul’s writings!
****
Your comment — “When bible says he was filled with Holy Spirit just meant he was HIGH in spirit!”
Response — Bible says John the Baptist had the Holy Spirit right from the womb.
John the Baptist said Jesus is greater than himself.
So Jesus had the Holy Spirit right from His Conception!
So when the Holy Spirit descended on Jesus to identify Him to John the Baptist, Jesus “was HIGH in spirit” (as you said) to start His public life!!!
****
Your comment — “And I take it you do not learn the bible from anyone else or pastors.”
Response — I have learned that if there are 100 pastors, they will teach you 110 different gospels!!!
****
Your comment — “Jesus was saying the Law was there for welfare and peace but without the curse.”
Response — If you obey the law, you never get the curses. But if you break the law you get curses unless you depend on Jesus Christ for remission of sins.
In fact Jesus came dying because He wanted to save us from the ultimate curse of the law, that is, death!!!
****
Your comment — “for we automatically obey it without knowing through our faith.”
Response — When the Bible declares that the full knowledge of sin is through the Law, how can you say that we can automatically obey without knowing what is sin and what law?!!!
****
Your comment — “I already gave you examples about the feeding of 5000 children, lying and eating in a town. But you fail to understand the concept.”
Response — Yes, I did not understand your concept of robbing (stealing) a bank and feeding 5000 children!
The Robin Hood idea is of human origin; it is not divine!
****
Your comment — “So when someone ask you for his hover and does not want to return it, is that stealing or not?”
Response — No, stealing is taking something that belongs to others without asking and without permission.
****
Your comment – “You can reply to me as you please for I will not read them or reply to you.
You take bible out of context that you jump from one end to another.”
Response – Yes, I am pleased to reply to you. But if you will not read and respond, I will be sad because I do the discussion in good faith.
Dear Xino, the problem is not that I take Bible out of context or that I jump from one end to another.
The issue is that you did not heed to my friendly advice at the beginning of our discussion. So I repeat the same again here:
There is a vast difference between “the LAW OF RIGHTEOUSNESS” and “the WORKS OF THE LAW” in all of Paul’s letters.
The “law of righteousness” and “the works of the law” are TWO different things in Paul’s usage. They are not the same thing.
Unless and until you understand these two vastly different things thoroughly, you will always remain confused on Paul.
Just consider this as a loving advice from my side.
Peace be with you.
Nephesh roi(Quote)
xino says
October 31, 2013 at 4:17 pmand i find it funny you ignored when I posted the verse to laws Paul said we should take heed, the laws that are not in God’s law.
we are under Grace and we live by faith!
xino(Quote)
Nephesh roi says
November 2, 2013 at 1:33 amYour comment — “and i find it funny you ignored when I posted the verse to laws Paul said we should take heed, the laws that are not in God’s law.”
Response — I did not reply because you did not tell me which one was not in the OT!!
I will give one example:
You have named “sorcery”!!!
How can you claim that “sorcery” is a sin mentioned by Paul in Ephesians or Galatians but not mentioned in Old Testament?!!!
Here it is mentioned in Deuteronomy:
“There must never be found among you anyone who sacrifices his son or daughter in fire, practices divination, interprets omens, practices SORCERY, casts spells, or who is a medium, an occultist, or a necromancer.” (Deut 18:10-11)
Nephesh roi(Quote)
xino says
November 2, 2013 at 7:50 amso it is now up to me to let you know which is from OT law or not?
tell me where it says in the law about drunkenness, orgies, dissensions, sensuality
or tell me where it says in the law about crude joking or foolish talk?
xino(Quote)
Nephesh roi says
November 4, 2013 at 4:45 amYour comment — “tell me where it says in the law about drunkenness, orgies, dissensions, sensuality
or tell me where it says in the law about crude joking or foolish talk?”
Response – My point was that these negative principles are NOT newly mentioned in the New Testament. These are either directly mentioned or implied in the Old Testament.
Most of these are mentioned in the Pentateuch or other Old Testament books that are based on the Pentateuch.
Take the case of drunkenness and dissension/rebellion:
“And they shall say to the elders of his city, this son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey our voice. He is a glutton and a DRUNKARD. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones so that he dies. So shall you put EVIL away from you, and all Israel shall hear and fear.” (Deut 21:20-21)
So you see “stubbornness” and “rebelliousness” that cause dissension as well as “gluttony” and “drunkenness” are all mentioned as “evil”!!!
“Be not among drunkards or among gluttonous eaters of meat” (Prov 23:20)
“Drunkards and gluttons will be reduced to poverty. If all you do is eat and sleep, you will soon be wearing rags.” (Prov 23:21)
Nephesh roi(Quote)
Summergirl says
November 9, 2013 at 5:18 pmRomans 8:28-30 states, “And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.”
This Bible verse seems to imply that God has already decided who would go to Heaven. Is this what it means? If so, that seems kind of unfair.
Summergirl(Quote)
xino says
November 12, 2013 at 3:12 pmGod is omniscience so I would say that is pointing to God knowing who is going to heaven.
and yes we are also elects. Chosen before creation of the universe.
it is not unfair. God is all knowing, he knows beginning and end.
Also God has laid out “choose life or death” people love to choose death.
they would rather follow this world than humble themselves and believe in Jesus
xino(Quote)
Summergirl says
November 12, 2013 at 7:38 pmThanks for the explanation. I was thinking of using Jeremiah 1:4-6, “Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee;and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee,and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations,” to understand it. What do you think?
Summergirl(Quote)
xino says
November 13, 2013 at 6:36 amyes that verse also counts too.
for it links with Psalm 139
“139 O Lord, you have searched me and known me!
2 You know when I sit down and when I rise up;
you discern my thoughts from afar.
3 You search out my path and my lying down
and are acquainted with all my ways.
4 Even before a word is on my tongue,
behold, O Lord, you know it altogether.
5 You hem me in, behind and before,
and lay your hand upon me.
6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me;
it is high; I cannot attain it.”
and
“13 For you formed my inward parts;
you knitted me together in my mother’s womb.
14 I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made.[a]
Wonderful are your works;
my soul knows it very well.
15 My frame was not hidden from you,
when I was being made in secret,
intricately woven in the depths of the earth.”
xino(Quote)
Nephesh roi says
November 13, 2013 at 2:47 am“This Bible verse seems to imply that God has already decided who would go to Heaven. Is this what it means? If so, that seems kind of unfair.” – Summergirl
Hi Summergirl,
Let me also try to explain.
Yes on the preliminary it seems unfair that God has already decided who would go to heaven and who would go to hell. It seems we are helpless since God has already decided so. For example, if God has already decided that Nephesh roi will go to hell, then Nephesh roi is unable to go to heaven. Whatever good Nephesh will try to do, he will end up in hell!
Well, such a god is not a god at all!!!
Romans 8:28-30 simply says whom God has called, justified and glorified. This is only a BEGINNING!!! It is not the END!!!
Jesus says, “for many are called, but few chosen.” (Mat 20:16). “But the person who endures to the end will be saved.” (Mat 24:13).
So God starts the race. But the completion and ending will be as per our proper response!!! It depends on us too!
But to explain your doubt, we need to know the Will of God regarding the whole humanity.
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.” (John 3:16).
Jesus also assures us, “So it is not the WILL of my Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.” (Mat 18:14).
So it is not the will of God that even a single person should perish!!!
“For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope.” (Jer 29:11)
In fact, the Bible does talk about God’s future plan for humanity.
“In all His wisdom and insight God did what He had purposed, and made known to us the SECRET PLAN He had already decided to COMPLETE by means of Christ. This plan, which God WILL COMPLETE when the time is right, is to bring ***ALL*** creation together, everything in heaven and on earth, with Christ as head. All things are done according to God’s plan and decision” (Eph 1:8-11).
(This is one of my most favourite verses in the Bible and in order to make it so plain, I have used the Good News Bible)
There are several points to catch here:
that there is an ultimate secret plan which God has already decided to complete; that God will complete it; that the plan is to call everyone to salvation; that the calling is in God’s own time etc.
Most importantly, we learn that there is a TIME TABLE (“the fullness of time”) with God to complete everything in Christ Jesus!!!
So today or tomorrow, God is going to call everyone – all atheists, all cannibals, all lost people who never even heard the only Name (Jesus) of salvation, all dead ignorant people of the past centuries etc – to salvation. It is only a matter of time before everyone gets an invitation!
“because God does not show partiality” (Rom 2:11).
When Apostle Paul came to know about this secret plan, he exults in poetic exclamation:
“O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments, and His ways past finding out! For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who became His counselor? Or who first gave to Him, and it will be repaid to him? For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things; to Him be glory forever! Amen.” (Rom 11:33-36).
Amen!
Nephesh roi(Quote)
Summergirl says
December 3, 2013 at 11:25 pmThanks for the reply.
Summergirl(Quote)
Beginning and End says
November 13, 2013 at 6:47 amHi Summergirl,
Thanks for asking this very important question. Words like “predestinate” and “elect” have become very controversial in the past decade in the church and among Bible readers in general due to the resurgence of Calvinism (a doctrine this author disagrees with and finds no Biblical support for). There are certain people predestined and elected in the Bible. But it is NOT for salvation. That is the key to understanding this concept. God never randomly picked certain people to go to Heaven and certain people to go ill, irrespective of their own choices and beliefs in their lives.
So now let’s look at the passage you cite from Romans 8:
In verse 28, the Apostle Paul through inspiration of the Holy Spirit gives us the context for the verses you are asking about: that ultimately all things are working for good if you are a born again believer in Jesus Christ. Verse 29 answers the question: “How is this so? How is everything working for my good?” And the answer is that God, who of course foreknows everyone who will come to be in Christ through faith, predetermined that all believers would be conformed to the image of His Son. This is the key phrase in the passage. The predesintating in this passage is not about salvation – it’s being conformed to Christ’s image. And how is that done? By our justification (being declared “not guilty” before God) and our glorification (“when we receive our Divinely created body to house our new born spirit created of God) so we are now in the image of Christ and no longer the image of our father Adam.
This is confirmed in other parts of Scripture:
The Apostle John writes here that when Jesus appears (at the Rapture) and the church is transformed in the twinkling of an eye, we shall be like Jesus. We will have our born again spirit, finally have our new glorified body and by God’s grace, we are now “in Christ” and justified through His work on the cross in the eyes of God the Father. This is what all who believe the Gospel are predestinated for. To be like Christ.
God predestinated many people in the Bible for specific roles. Israel was chosen to receive God’s law. Jeremiah was chosen to be a prophet from the womb. John the Baptist was chosen to be the prophet who would announce the coming of the Messiah. All of these people were chosen beforehand by The Lord as a part of His Divine Will and purpose. Howver no one is just automatically chosen in advance for salvation. We all choose or reject salvation. Of course The Lord ultimately knows that choice, but that does not take the power to choose from us.
This is illustrated powerfully in Matthew 23:
In this passage where The Lord gives a scathing rebuke of the pharisees, notice the plea He makes. In verse 34, Jesus very clearly says that He sent prophets, wise men and scribes to the people of Israel. Why? To save them of course. To proclaim God’s Gospel. But rather than listening, the people rejected, tortured and killed them. So even as Jesus pronounced judgment upon Israel for rejecting Him (as this was being said days before He would be crucified), He explained His efforts to save them by sending prophet after prophet. This shows that there was a chance for these people to be saved, but they rejected it. So clearly they were not “pre-selected” for hell and the Lake of Fire.
This is really driven home in verse 37, when our Lord says that He would have gathered the children of Israel “as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings…” This shows the loving compassion Jesus has on them as He still emphasizes His desire to nurture a people who rejected Him. And he empahsizes this by saying “and ye would not!” The use of “would” shows that these people being addressed has a choice. They could have chosen to believe and receive their Messiah, but in their sinful rebellion, they suppressed the truth about Him, despised Him and had Him killed. If these people were pre-chosen and pre-programmed in their brains to reject the Gospel, as Calvinists erroneously believe, than everything Jesus said in this passage makes no sense whatsoever. Why would Jesus yell and plead with people who He personally programmed to reject Him? It makes His behavior here irrational. Which of course we know cannot be the case.
So please know, that all people have a choice to believe or reject God. Yes, God knows who will believe because He is God and has foreknowledge of everything every last second of human existence. But we all have the chance to believe in the Gospel. It is just a matter of if we will humble ourselves, acknowledge our sin and believe upon God’s Messiah or continue our sinful rebellion, have no faith and join the group to whom The Lord says “ye would not!”
And our goal with this site is that people make the right choice and believe. I hope that answers your question. Please feel free to ask anymore that you may have. God bless you abundantly. -B&E
Beginning and End(Quote)
Summergirl says
November 14, 2013 at 3:24 pmThank you. I feel like I finally understand. I think what you’re saying is that God has a plan for everyone, but it’s up to them whether they choose to do it. You definitely went above and beyond what I was asking about. I appreciate it.
Summergirl(Quote)
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Netlace(Quote)