A new summer blockbuster titled “Lucy”, starring megastar Scarlett Johansson is set to make a big haul at the box office. The movie, about a woman who is exposed to a drug that allows her to access the full use of her brain and attain superhuman powers, appears to be another example of the marketing of the transhumanism movement – which attempts to use technology to enhance humanity to the point of being immortals with godlike powers. All of this is the same deception Satan used on humanity in the Garden of Eden and draws people from believing in God into believing they can actually be god themselves.
The trailer for the film is below:
And here is the synopsis from the film website:
In a world that is run by the mob, street gangs, drug addicts, and corrupt cops, Lucy (Scarlett Johansson) is a woman living in Taipei, Taiwan who is forced to work as a drug mule for the mob. The drug implanted in her body inadvertently leaks into her system, changing her into a superhuman, due to accessing much more than the normal 10% of her brain capacity. She can absorb knowledge instantaneously, is able to move objects with her mind, and chooses not to feel pain or other discomforts..An action-thriller that tracks a woman accidentally caught in a dark deal who turns the tables on her captors and transforms into a merciless warrior evolved beyond human logic. (source).
In the trailer, Lucy’s ingestion of the futuristic drug into her bloodstream sends the use of her “brain capacity” (an idea based on the fictional notion that humans only use 10% of their brains) accelerating, giving her advanced intelligence on the way to superhuman abilities. As stated on the film’s official website, Lucy is able to learn languages in seconds, understand the most difficult scientific concepts and becomes so advanced that she literally absorbs information upon viewing it. As her brain races to “100% capacity usage” she can control the minds of others, shut off her resistance to pain and see the digital stream of information traveling on Wi-Fi networks. As the character states on the film’s website, Lucy is “the anomaly” and the “next step in evolution.” All the while she kills her captors with cold, emotionless precision.
In a very visually jarring interface on the film’s website, a message is displayed at very high speeds that is supposed to be a chat with the movie’s main character. In it she explains that as she approaches 100% brain capacity, she can “see everything” and “feel everything.” She can look into the past, present or future. She can stop time. She can travel out of her body and even go into space and then return Earth. She essentially becomes a god. And she states that once humanity understands evolution properly “we can all be come divinity.” (source).
These advanced abilities are precisely what those in the transhumanism movement are seeking to achieve in real life. The transhumanism movement, is a group of scientists, professors and like-minded thinkers who are focused on using science and technology to bring the next step of human evolution. Achieving “the Singularity” is a very key part of their goals. A transhumanist website writes:
“The Technological Singularity is the point in the predicted near future when technology allows the artificial increase of intelligence to a level far beyond that of current human intelligence. It is best described as an intelligence explosion; the event horizon which can not be predicted beyond.
The result of such an intelligence explosion would cause changes to life as we know it far beyond what is foreseeable at current human intelligence levels. On this site we liken it to the creation of a god, for it will quite literally immediately make anything possible beyond comprehension, and certainly everything listed in the above blue menu; it will likely enable us to understand our own existence, and gain abilities of what religions currently depict Gods have.” (source).
A second trailer for the film emphasizes this message:
As Lucy’s mental powers increases she develops a host of new abilities that essentially make her a god:
- The ability to see the digital stream of wiresless information from cell phones, computers, tablets and other devices:
- Feeling human energy
- Manipulating her cells to physically alter her appearance with thought
- Accessing the human mind
Ray Kurzweil, the Founder of the Singularity University, Director of Engineering at Google, is considered the modern “father” of the transhumanist/singularity movement. He is renowned for his prediction that by the year 2045, technology will have advanced to the point that humans can merge with machine and achieve immortality.
Google’s Director of Engineering and noted futurist Ray Kurzweil made some bold predictions at the Global Future 2045 World Congress this week. According to him, human immortality, the singularity of man and machine merging and the ability for people to upload our brains to computers will all be possible in the next 30 to 100 years or so. “We’re going to be increasingly non-biological to the point where the non-biological part dominates and the biological part is not important anymore.” (source).
In the simulated “chat” with Lucy on the film’s website, the main character compares the human body to a hermit crab and that it is just a shell that “needs to be shed.” Here is another quote from Kurzweil from his seminal book The Singularity Is Near:
“Evolution moves towards greater complexity, greater elegance, greater knowledge, greater intelligence, greater beauty, greater creativity, and greater levels of subtle attributes such as love. In every monotheistic tradition God is likewise described as all of these qualities, only without limitation: infinite knowledge, infinite intelligence, infinite beauty, infinite creativity, infinite love, and so on. Of course, even the accelerating growth of evolution never achieves an infinite level, but as it explodes exponentially it certainly moves rapidly in that direction. So evolution moves inexorably towards this conception of God, although never quite reaching this ideal. We can regard, therefore, the freeing of our thinking from the severe limitations of its biological form to be an essentially spiritual undertaking.” (source).
Beginning and End covered the Global Future 2045 World Congress meeting in our article: The Singularity – Science’s Quest For Immortality And Satan’s Deception. To fully understand the agenda of the Singularity movement to lead humanity’s evolution to a new being (often called homo superior), the conference produced the video below:
Lucy promotes these same ideas as it becomes apparent to Johansson’s character that as she becomes more godlike, she is going to shed her humanity. The film soon turns into a race for the her to understand her evolution beyond her physical body. Ultimately Lucy uses technology to download her ever-increasing knowledge and consciousness into a super-computer so she can live forever – the exact goal of the transhumanism movement.
Immortality and powers that make a person into a god are precisely what Satan offered Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden:
Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. – Genesis 3:1-5.
Rather than receive immortal life and become gods, Adam and Eve were punished by God and banished from the Garden of Eden. And humanity, who was made in the image of the true God and Creator of the universe, was suddenly corrupted. Sin is what brought suffering, pain and death into the world: “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:” (Romans 5:12).
And the sinful corrupted nature of Adam was passed on to all of his descendants and all of the human race today. And thus all people have a natural inclination against God and toward sinful rebellion. And all people die. This is the sad legacy of man’s first attempt to achieve immortality without God.
Science and technology provide amazing benefits to society. And the pursuit of scientific advancement is not sinful in itself. It is only when people think they can deny and usurp God that they have crossed into rebellion. Romans chapter 1 outlines this descent into rejection of God:
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, – Romans 1:18-22.
Despite God revealing and making Himself clear to those who can notice the obvious order and design of nature, many reject and deny God’s existence and instead promote themselves as “god” or some other foolish notion. And this is where many ideas in the transhumanist movement are headed.
Here is an excerpt from the article, “Transhumanism and The End of Religion”:
“Religions, arising before transhumanist ideas were conceivable, advised its followers to accept death and hope for the best, with no other options available. And religious beliefs provided comfort against natural evils before the advent of science and technology.
But must we relinquish religious beliefs now, before science gives us everything we want? Might we allow the comfort of religious beliefs to those who need them, to those who must tell their children something when someone dies? The most important reason to abandon religious belief is religion’s opposition to most forms of progress. From the elimination of slavery, the use of birth control, and women’s and civil rights, to stem cell research, genetic engineering, and science in general, organized religion often opposes progress. The comfort provided by archaic superstitions often impedes advancement and should be set aside.
…No doubt humans need a new scientifically based cosmic narrative to replace the older less plausible religious ones. Such narratives are beginning to emerge as our understanding of cosmic evolution and our proper role in it increases. But whatever shape those narratives take they will be informed by the belief that humans can evolve into something much more than they are now.” (source).
Another transhumanist article sets its sights squarely on the Christian faith, published on Christmas Eve, 2013:
“For a few billion people around the world, Christmas is the most important and relished holiday of the year….For many nations, no other day comes close to being as special. For this reason, it seems almost unimaginable that another day — especially an unknown one looming on the horizon — will soon unseat Christmas as the most important day in the world. Nonetheless, for humanity, the course is set. The birth of an artificial intelligence equal or greater than that of human intelligence is coming. It’s called AI Day. And once it arrives, it will rapidly usher in a new age…
Regardless what happens in the future, it’s safe to say AI will not be an entity speaking to us in hackneyed parables, or telling us to pluck out our eyes and cut off our hands if we sin. It probably also won’t threaten us with a hopeless fiery hell of eternal punishment for our lack of faith. It’s far more likely the greatest tool our species has ever created will tell us how to end world poverty with inventive technologies, how to best fix the Earth of the environmental degradation we’ve caused, and how to heal ourselves of all disease and live indefinitely via radical science. Sure, there will be risks in keeping AI our friend and ally, but there will be even greater rewards in harnessing it and using it to advance civilization.
One thing is for sure, to the human species, the birth of an advanced artificial intelligence will become far more important than the birth of Christ. Christmas, if it survives at all, will be relegated to just another commercial and cultural holiday that superstores and big business thrive on. Meanwhile, reasonable people will celebrate AI Day, the real moment in history the savior of civilization was born.” (source).
Notice the author is focused on Christianity and replacing Jesus Christ with Artificial Intelligence (“AI”). And the article blatantly mocks the Bible. This is where Satan’s influence comes in. What spirit is leading someone to write such an offensive article on Christmas Eve? The same spirit that is leading so many people today to seek immortality whether it’s through the New Age movement, the occult, or technology – and do it without God.
Luc Besson – No Stranger To Sinful Rebellion
Luc Besson, the writer and director of Lucy has explored the ideas of “achieving godhood” before. The Sci-fi thriller, The Fifth Element, was one of Besson’s early hits and broke the record for the highest grossing French film ever made.
The Fifth Element told the story of an alien race who come to Earth in 1914 to enter an Egyptian temple to obtain an ancient weapon capable of defeating an alien force called The Great Evil which appears every 5,000 years. The weapon consists of four stones, representing the four classical elements, and a sarcophagus that contains a Fifth Element in the form of a ‘perfect human’, who combines the power of the other four elements into a “Divine Light” that can defeat the evil. The Mondoshawans promise their contact, a priest, that they will return with the Elements in time to stop the Great Evil, which will occur in three centuries.
In 2263, the Great Evil appears in space in the form of a giant ball of black fire, and destroys an Earth spaceship that is attacking it. The current Mondoshawan contact, priest Vito Cornelius, informs the president of earth of the history of the Great Evil and the weapon that can stop it. As the Mondoshawans return to Earth, they are ambushed by Mangalores, a race hired by the industrialist Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg, who was instructed by the Great Evil to acquire the stones.
The Mondoshawan’s spacecraft is destroyed; the only recoverable item is a hand of the Fifth Element. The scientists take the hand to a New York City laboratory, using it to re-construct a humanoid woman, known as “Leeloo”, which has been described as “perfect”. Terrified of her unfamiliar surroundings, she escapes confinement and jumps off a ledge to land in the flying taxicab of Korben Dallas, a divorcee and former major in the special forces. (source).
So an alien race clones the hand of this ancient being to create a god-like woman named “LeeLoo” who is the fifth element and key to activating this powerful weapon. All of these ideas are found in witchcraft. The Pentagram or pentacle symbol that is so popular in witchcraft and many occult practices, is a representation of the Five Elements – earth, air, fire, water and the fifth element, ether or spirit. As explained on a witchcraft website:
For modern-day Pagans, the Pentacle contains many wonderful layers of symbolism. The five points symbolize the four directions with the fifth point as the sanctity of Spirit, within and without. The circle around the star symbolizes unity and wholeness. It represents the quest for Divine Knowledge, a concept which is ancient in origin and universal in scope from the earliest written ritual texts in Babylonia, to the Celts, to the Native American traditions. Similar to other figures which are made of a single unbroken line, this symbol is used to mark off magical enclosures or ritual areas, especially when used for invocation of deities or spirit.
The pentagram is one of the most powerful and popular symbols used by many Neo-Pagans, including those involved in Wicca and Ceremonial Magic. In working magic, Pagans may draw the shape of the pentagram in the air with the athame, or sacred blade, sometimes in the four directions as part of the ritual. A physical pentacle in the form of a flat disc is often the a main feature of the altar and is a widely used ritual tool. The symbol is used to decorate magickal tools or items such as a chalice, cauldron, or the handle of the athame itself. For some it represents feminine energy relating to the Goddess and may be used to bind elemental spirits of the earth as well as to hold consecrated objects such as herbs, amulets and crystals. (source).
The occult concept is that by unifying the four elements of nature or the four cardinal directions (north, south, east and west) an occultist can access the spiritual realm through the fifth element of spirit, also known as ether or quintessence. And it the fifth element is a means of transformation to divinity.
In the film, LeeLoo is called “perfect” by the scientists who remove her from the sarcophagus. She has superhuman ability and also possesses the power to release the “Divine Light” that can save the planet. In Lucy, the main character achieves divinity that she wants to share with the human race.
Interestingly, Lucy means “light” and is the feminine root of the name Lucifer (“light bearer”), Satan’s original name before his fall into sinful rebellion. And Scripture says of Satan’s ability to change his form in order to deceive people:
“And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.” – 2 Corinthians 11:14.
Lucifer deceived the first two humans created by offering knowledge and immortality – precisely what Lucy offers humanity in the film. The book of Isaiah details Satan’s original wicked aspirations that led to his fall:
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. – Isaiah 14:12-15.
Lucifer’s desire was and continues to be to replace God. And his message of rebellion tries to lure mankind into the same foolish notion. In the film, Lucy attempts to show humanity the next step to knowledge, evolution and godhood. All without any concern for sin. In the film, Lucy coldly kills dozens (f not hundreds of people), many innocent bystanders, with no regret, remorse or empathy. Those who do not comply with her requests are shot and killed on the spot. When she is driving away from her enemies, cars carrying innocent people are hurled out of her way without a second thought. Her attitude sums up the evolutionary concept of “survival of the fittest.” As the superior “evolved” being, she does not need to worry about hurting inferiors. In her path to “godhood” Lucy sheds the remaining part of her conscience and values. Sin means nothing to her and nor does the Word of God. This is precisely where Satan wants to lead humanity. Do not be deceived.
The True Way To Immortality
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. – 1 Corinthians 15:53-57.
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.” – Jesus Christ, John 6:47.
There is a way to eternal life. And that way is Jesus Christ. Jesus emphasized He being the exclusive way to Heaven by saying “I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the father but by me,” (John 14:6). Sin is what brought mortality to the human race. And no amount of knowledge or technology can remove it or cure it. For all of our advances, society is just as depraved, violent, full of hatred, greed and lust as it was two thousand years ago. Technology cannot correct the sin nature or our guilt before God. But Jesus Christ can provide forgiveness because even though He is God, He chose to lower Himself and become a man, giving His life on the cross, as a perfect, sinless sacrifice to atone for the sins of the world.
And this is how a person receives eternal life – by putting their faith and trust in Christ. And at the time of the rapture (referred to as “the resurrection” in the Bible), all those who believe in Jesus Christ, dead or alive, will be resurrected into new Divine bodies, that no longer have that sin nature. And those bodies are created to live forever. This is what the passage above from 1 Corinthians 15 means when it says: “for this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.” Jesus defeated death on the cross and a sinful person receives the gift of forgiveness by putting their faith and trust in Him, not themselves.
Lucy will no doubt be a summer blockbuster. And while millions of people go to watch it all over the world, Christians should pray that they will not fall victim to the false gospel of the Singularity and transhumanism. Hollywood continues to promote message that move people away from the Bible and much closer to Lucifer. And that road leads to damnation and hell. But the Gospel of Jesus Christ has the power to make people remember their sin, turn back to God for forgiveness and truly be immortal.
Thanks; another movie worth a skip. Yikes, the list is getting looong.
Soldado Christiano says
Well now you have more time to study your King James Bible
I laughed so hard that I fell off the chair and hit the floor, knees first. I think I might have fractured a patella. I prefer the previous NIV (preferably pre-2000) or the MacArthur Study Bible. I believe there are more movies to miss coming our way, eh?
Jero Jones says
Prynhawn da/Good afternoon and Hi
The world of superstition, and religion is full of fiction and all sorts of mumbo-jumbo, and for B&E to incite people of the ungodliness of a fictional person, such as Lucy, or that of character Leeloo of The Fifth Element (who are just two of Hollywood many fictional goddesses), is nonsensical, and nobody with any form of intellect would take any heed. Throughout history there have been many man-made goddesses from the ancient Greek, and Roman world, such as Artemis, Aphrodite, Athena, Persephone, Demeter, Hera, Venus, Diana, Minerva, Vesta, etc, etc. And from my own culture there have been as many goddesses as that of the Greek or Roman world — goddesses such as Brânwen, probably the only goddess from any of the ancient cultures that has a real burial place (Bedd Branwen, English: Branwen’s grave) that is still extant. Then there is Ceridwen, a Celtic shape-shifting goddess, who kept a cauldron of wisdom, the list is endless, but nobody in the ancient world cared, for most of the goddesses were to do with femininity, such as love, fertility, birth, etc. However, we must not forget the most famous goddess of our time in the West, a real man-made goddess that was invented by the Christian church in 431 CE, at the church council of Ephesus, namely, Theotokos, Mary mother of Jesus aka Virgin Mary. She was made a goddess a hundred years after her son was made a god in 325 CE, by the same Christian church, centuries after their mortal deaths.
As for your implying of witchcraft ritual in the film Fifth Element, that is hypocrisy on your part, try reading 1 Samuel 28:3-25, which refers to the Witch of Endor and a Necromantic ritual to conjure the spirit of Samuel at the behest of Saul.
If B&E want a featured POST, the story of how man made Mary a goddess, is the type to comment on — not Hollywood fiction.
Jero Jones, Mab Cymru
PsyQo Mike says
I think you completely lost focus on the article. You sound more concerned with sounding intelligent than actually making a valid point. The article is on trans humanism and how the movie Lucy promotes this concept subtly. Clearly B & E knows Lucy is a fictional character but as they often talk about Hollywood movies and how they are made to condition people to these subjects unconsciously. Anybody with any form of intellect would understand the point of this article and take heed to B&E points. Instead of providing points about the different gods and goddesses you know about I think you should reread the article. I have seen you often comment on many articles and you always ignore the points and make it sound like your some type of top intellect. Instead of being so judgmental I think you should actually take this site seriously.
Jero Jones says
Prynhawn da/Good afternoon and Hi
Hi PsyQo Mike
No, I do not think that I lost the plot, your article or post was once again an attack on another sector of humanity, namely science, futurist and humanitarianism, and the film industry, etc. One has to read between the lines, and check the keywords you use in your post, such as Sin, religion, evolution, Darwinian, transhumanism movement, science, futurist, homo superior, godlike, goddess, Lucifer/Satan,technology, immortality, Christmas (eve), Ai (artificial intelligence), etc., etc. Almost all these keyword and more, are abhorrent to your religious beliefs (conservative evangelicals/fundamentalist/creationist), and I mean no disrespect to you, however, the majority of Christians have no problem with science, evolution, or the severe discrepancies within the bible.
I have been reading the history of Christianity since the 1950’s, and its a subject that I love, and I do not see myself intentionally being judgemental. I also do not see it wrong as a researcher to expose biblical error, and lies, and like your comment to me, I have been on many occasions accused by zealot Christians of being unloving towards Christianity, and that it is sinful to expose bible errors.
On the subject of errors, B&E in their Post has this to say:..Notice the author is focused on Christianity and replacing Jesus Christ with Artificial Intelligence (“AI”). And the article blatantly mocks the Bible. This is where Satan’s influence comes in. What spirit is leading someone to write such an offensive article on Christmas Eve? The same spirit that is leading so many people today to seek immortality whether it’s through the New Age movement, the occult, or technology – and do it without God…[source B&E] The error is, where the author of the post is offended by article on Christmas Eve, well the truth of the matter is that Christmas* was a pagan festival, and the first Christmas on record was for the year 354 CE, and according to biblical scholars, Jesus was born around April time (?).[*Chronography 354]
And I do take B&E site seriously!
Jero Jones, Mab Cymru
I agree with PsyQo Mike on this one. Like he said, you completely ignore all the facts and continue to go on a rant about something else entirely. It seems to me that your trying so hard to avoid being saved by Jesus Christ who indeed is God (John 1:1).
However, we must not forget the most famous goddess of our time in the West, a real man-made goddess that was invented by the Christian church in 431 CE, at the church council of Ephesus, namely, Theotokos, Mary mother of Jesus aka Virgin Mary. She was made a goddess a hundred years after her son was made a god in 325 CE, by the same Christian church, centuries after their mortal deaths.
Where are you getting this information from? The four gospels (Matthew, Mark Luke, John) all mention the miraculous virgin birth of Jesus Christ, and every one of those gospels was written before 85 ad and no more than 25 to 30 years after Jesus’ resurrection. You are so far from the truth its not even funny. PsyQo Mike says that it seems your trying to just sound intelligent more than proving a point, I disagree. I think your purposely avoiding the topic at hand, Faith and Salvation through Jesus Christ! What are you afraid of? What are you hiding from? God’s arms are wide open waiting for you brother. I’m going to continue to pray for you. Peace be with you.
That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2 Peter 3:2-7 (KJV)
Jero Jones says
Prynhawn da/Good afternoon and Hi
I believe I have mentioned to you before that I do not need saving! As I believe that my Jesus, who was a Jew, is probably not the Jesus that you cherish. My Jesus according to Jewish tradition was not a Messiah (anointed king/leader), but a mere mortal, who learnt his trade in Egypt, who apparently like your Jesus, did not get along with his mother too [John 2:4].
On your comment I will stick to mine, as I have said to PsyQo, the B&E post is an attack on another part of humanity, namely science and Transhumanism, as well as another attack on the film industry.
You have a nice day.
Jero Jones, Mab Cymru
Again, you are completely ignoring the facts. I have asked you multiple times, where do you get your information? Please don’t tell me David Icke. Not only did Jesus fulfill every Old Testament prophecy relating to the Messiah, He made it very clear that the scriptures (at that time, the Old Testament was the only “scripture” available) testified of Him, and through Him came everlasting life (John 5:39, John 3:16).
As I believe that my Jesus, who was a Jew, is probably not the Jesus that you cherish. My Jesus according to Jewish tradition was not a Messiah (anointed king/leader), but a mere mortal, who learnt his trade in Egypt,
Again, where is you information coming from? I noticed that you kept saying “my Jesus”. Do you know what it’s called when men make their own gods to support or defend their lifestyle? It’s called idolatry, and it’s very serious and the reason why it’s the first commandment (Exodus 20:3). This is why I keep asking you, what are you hiding from? Because you make up your own Jesus, nothing he says pertains to you right? Which means living a sinful lifestyle is ok, because you have nothing to fear right? Wrong brother. Not only are you going to face judgement, but you will be one of those who cry out to Jesus, “Lord, Lord” And Jesus will reply, “get away from me, for I never knew you”(Matthew 7:21-23). As far as your comment goes, transhumanism and the film industry attack Christians, the Bible and Jesus Christ constantly. Are you saying it’s ok for them to do that but not for us to point it out and declare it wrong? You hypocrite!
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Matthew 5:11 (KJV)
Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Matthew 23:33 (KJV)
Jero Jones says
Prynhawn da/Good afternoon and Hi
I have always cited my facts, however, they are not readily accepted by B&E and the more conservatives of the commentators. To know Christianity, one has to research other faiths, and religions, to ascertain the truth and the answers to what one is researching, lots of my information comes from scholarly works, academia, ancient sources including pagan, and in particular, Jewish Holy books. Sources that Jesus had access to, after all Jesus was a devout Jew, as there were no Christians in his lifetime, only Jewish followers. The Nazarenes, the Poor One the Ebionites, etc., who were decimated by the Paulines Christians in the 4th and 5th centuries.
On your comment of idolatry, which you were in err, to be an idolator, one has to have something physical, a cross or effigy to worship, etc. When I referred to ‘my’ Jesus, I was implying a belief that he was a character very different to the Jesus that you are familiar with. My Jesus according to Jewish tradition was a poor militant, apocalyptic preacher come magician, who learnt his craft in Egypt, and had a tattoos body, etc.[Talmud–Sanhedrin 43/67/107, Shabbath 104, are just a few citations] One also has to remember that throughout the Christian era, many thousands of the Jewish Holy books were destroyed, burnt, and even censured, to destroy the content that referred to a man named, Yeshua (Jesus).
As you correctly stated that at the time the only scriptures Jesus had in his time, was the Old Testament, however, the term you used is an anachronism, as the Hebrew and Greek Old testament were known as the Tanakh, however, by the very early 5th century the Greek version of Tanakh became known as the Septuagint.[Book XVIII, of Augustine’s City of Gold] The Septuagint is another story!
Jero Jones, Mab Cymru
You said that to be an idolater, you have to have a physical object to worship. Again you are wrong. That is the second part of idolatry.
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exodus 20:3 (KJV)
As you can see, this is considered idolatry, however different from Exodus 20:3.
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exodus 20:3 (KJV)
The first thing God tells us to do is worship Him and only Him. Have no other Gods before Him. This is exactly what you are doing! You just said Jesus has tattoos and, learned his “magic” in egypt, this is not the Messiah the Bible tells us about in Gods word, therefore it is idolatry. You also said that you have to study other religions to learn about Christianity. This is absolutely absurd. Scripture will rebuke you.
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Galatians 1:8 (KJV)
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 14:6 (KJV)
Jero Jones says
Noswaith dda/ good evening and Hi
I am a little confused on your idolater theory! To have an idol, it has to be a material thing, such as stone, wood, clay, material, and straw, etc. You cannot worship something that you alone is thinking about, you would end up in a straitjacket. This is what the dictionary say about it.
a carved idol or representation of a god used as an object of worship.
I rest my case, and I am to old to be carrying on with the same topic day after day, so lets get on with our lives, and comment on something else.
Jero Jones, Mab Cymru
Once again you are wrong. The definition of idolatry, according to Webster, is “the worship of idols or excessive devotion to, or reverence for some person or thing. It does not have to be a physical object. As you call it, “my Jesus”, if this is a different Jesus than spoken of in the word of God, then it is 100% idolatry. Notice, it said in the definition, “reverence for some person”. This is exactly what your doing. You keep sticking to the whole “graven image” thing, which your right, this is also idolatry. However, this is different than worship of other gods, which is what your doing, and both are equally idolatry. Worship of Buddha, Allah, Krishna, Confucius etc. is all idolatry. I rest my case. There’s only way to eternal life brother, and your tattooed magician idol won’t get you there! As always, I’m praying for you brother, peace.
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
1 Timothy 3:16 (KJV)
Jero Jones says
Bore da/Good morning and Hi
Without seeming judgemental on your comments (which I am not), you don’t seen to read a lot on biblical issues that concern the Bible as a whole. 1 Timothy, and 2 Timothy are pseudepigraphic Pauline epistles, that means that they are false, forgeries written by someone claiming (in this case) to be Timothy.[Forged by Prof. Bart D. Ehrman, ch. 3, pp 93-102] or any major scholarship, and for ease of access to a citation I have added [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauline_epistles] Sorry to point this out to you, but it is true, as all the leading New Testament scholars, biblical historians, and academia, and most of the churches accept this, as there are several other pseudepigraphic books within the Bible. Including half of all the Pauline epistles, etc. However, I should also point out that the only dissenters from the norm are the ultra conservative Christians/fundamentalist/Creationist. So your argument is void. Also, your argument goes against ‘free thinking,’ and it would also mean that you would be an idolater yourself, as you would of thought about it whilst write your comments to me.
Have a nice day.
Jero Jones, Mab Cymru
Beginning and End says
Once again you make many inaccurate assertions with no proof. Here is your statement:
Like almost all of what you post, this is just false once we actually look for evidence. The only scholar you cite to demonstrate the Paul’s epistles were not written by him is Bart Erhman a notorious Christian-hater who has been roundly refuted by other academics. Here is a sample:
So right here you are wrong. Clearly, not “all leading NT scholars” call the Pauline epistles forgeries. You have continued to provide inaccurate and/or wildly incorrect information to these forums which is frankly, easily disputed.
Another problem Erhman has is that there is no objection in the first or second century church to the Pauline epistles. In the book Forged, Erhman concedes that Christians were extremely careful to sift through epistles and root out forgeries. Yet he presents no evdience of any objections to any of the writings of Paul. He also discounts the fact that Peter endorsed Paul’s writing as scripture on the basis that Peter “must have been illiterate” something again Erhman has no evidence of whatsoever. Erhman endorses the book of Acts as being authentic but ignores Acts 4 which states:
These “unlearned and ignorant men” were speaking like educated scholars. So much that even their enemies marvelled at their knowledge and linguistic skill. So certainly Peter was indeed skilled in language and even if he could not write could dictate to a scribe. And this is all from a book that Erhman calls authentic.
This type of “scholarship” suffers from the fact that it is mostly based on SPECULATION. It is not based on historical proofs. If you found records of church fathers arguing about Paul’s epistles or protesting them, then maybe there would be some real substance. Otherwise it basically comes down to Erhman saying “since the styles in the letters vary, it must be a forgery.” This of course ignores Paul’s statement that “all Scripture is written by inspiration of God..” Paul was not just writing what was on his mind, he was writing under divine inspiration. Erhman of course cannot acknowledge this because he harbors so much ill-will about his Christian upbringing.
And I will not even get into all of the theological mistakes Erhman bases his forgeries on. He does not understand Christianity from a spiritual standpoint and stumbles repeatedly as he tries to “prove” that Paul is making contradictions in different books.
Papias, Justin, Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, among others were first and second century highly educated literary critics who went to painstaking lengths to root out forgeries and pseudopigripha. And they made no objection but instead wrote about Paul endorsing his authorship, while at the same time refuting and exposing dozens of forgeries being passed off as Christian epistles.
So again, Jero, you have stated an absolutely incorrect statement with no evidence. It is your anger at God that sadly fuels your many erroneous posts. You claim that you are a “free thinker” but you have become so blinded by your animus towards God that you will spend time on a Christian website railing against Him. That’s not freedom. That is bondage. And I hope and pray you will be set free.
So after proving to you that your indeed an idolater, you now change arguments and try to bash the scripture I referenced in 1 Timothy. This is getting really sad Jero. Like B&E pointed out, He said your obviously angry at God for whatever reason. I agree, and that’s why I keep pointing out and asking what your hiding from or what are you running from? Your one of those non-believers who have 100 questions about the Bible, I can answer 99 correct, but if I cant find an answer for one, then the whole thing is wrong and I’m a fool for believing. And 1 Timothy doesn’t claim to be written by Timothy, it was written by Paul and addressed to Timothy (1 Timothy 1:1), a young pastor at the time. So what’s next? Let’s talk about your salvation. Come on brother, we love you here, and want nothing more than to see you in heaven with us worshipping the one true God, Jesus Christ!
Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the command of God our Savior and of Christ Jesus our hope,
To Timothy my true son in the faith:
Grace, mercy and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord
1 Timothy 1:1 (KJV)
you make no sense..
Jero Jones says
Noswaith da/Good evening and Hi
Sorry that I make no sense to you, if you check my citation, perhaps it will become more clearer for you. Or you can tell me what the problem is that you are having trouble with understanding.
Jero Jones, Mab Cymru
If I could ever gives a thumbs down to someone like Jero, this is it. It’s not even worth explaining why…
Jan Jones says
Jero I would like to point out a few things.
The Holy Spirit is working within each Christian and the words written are a double edged sword, powerful to divide the soul and the spirit. Accept the word of God and Jesus and your spirit will live forever with God.
So too does the Holy Spirit reach out and prepare the ground for you. Will the seed land and find fertile soil?
The choice is yours.
No argument can ever change God, no argument will ever save your soul. So what is the point in arguing?
As for my fellow Christians on this page, please remember that there are twice as many angels as demons. We give the devil too much attention and glory. The battle is already won.
I find the concept of time fascinating. God is beyond time, He sees us in our full glory, the end result while we grasp and battle with our everyday.
I bless each and every person reading this in the name of Jesus Christ, the son of God who became flesh and died on the cross to bear each of our sins so we can freely approach God and worship in Spirit and in truth.
Jero Jones says
Prynhawn dda/Good afternoon and Hi
Hi Jan Jones
Thank you for your comments, however, with the utmost respect, your blessings are more than half a century too late for me! I went on a voyage of discovery in the mid 1950’s and found my god in knowledge, and found my spirit in truth, and I thank human evolution for a brain that allows me to see superstition and deception for what they are–benighted.
Jero Jones, Mab Cymru
how about knowing more about islam (without any prejudgement)
maybe you’ll find what’s you looking for.
I’m reminded of The Borg from “Star Trek”. They travel around the Galaxy “assimilating” entire planets, people & technology into their collective hive. The Borg believe they’re improving people by forcing them to accept cybernetic implants all over the bodies & in their brains, bringing them closer to “perfection”. And their victims have no say in the matter. Sound familiar?
A Mother says
B & E presented a lot of evidences to believe that Lucy is another movie made to deviate us from the essence of our existence. We are simple human beings with limited abilities because that’s the way God made us and those who believe we can be like Lucy, are against the will of the Lord. Eternal life, after mortality, is what follows.
What a breath of fresh air to read someone with some discernment. I went to see this movie just to continue to keep aware of what lies Satan will deceive the world with when he possesses the Beast. In Thessalonians 2:9-12 “The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.”
It is only conjecture but I believe the Beast will proclaim he has achieved the next phase of human evolution and people will buy it hook, line and sinker. Their minds are being prepped with movies and concepts presented in Lucy.
Also at one point in the movie Lucy says ” we never really die” I commented to my wife that is a direct quote from Satan in the garden. “You surely will not die”. When people buy that lie it blinds them to their need of God in order to live.
If you really look at it, death (although an enemy) is God’s grace in action. Without death, what would prompt a man to turn to Christ. God himself denied Adam and Eve access to the tree of life after they sinned, lest they continue in their fallen state never seeking a relationship with God but choosing to live in sin and suffering for eternity.
Well technically we dont die, our genes are passed on to our offspring so by that notion we are immortal
Jan Jones says
Gee your body would then be very crowed with all the spirits in there..
Open your eyes and receive the truth, Jesus is the way the truth and the life.
You do understand genes are is your genetic code right? Your dna that is passed down to the next generation? So by that humans are immortal our bodies die but our genetic code lives on through our children and so forth.
Dear Beginning and End,
Thank you for this great article…
I’ve heard about this kind of technology and this is creepy!!!! It’s dangerous too! Due to the fact if people follow this belief, the only place it will lead them is straight to hell. Satan is very clever…. It sounds like this technology is coming into place for the Anti-Christ. Like that genetic engineering technology that manipulates the DNA and wants to promote the creation of these weird things. I don’t know but I think the Anti-Christ will not be alone; he might want to bring his demons from the abyss but in some sort of a super race. This is scary and creepy!!! God have mercy on us.
Great article though…
Keep up the good work and spread the truth!!
Beginning and End says
Thanks very much for your comments. And I am in agreement – the Antichrist is not coming alone and will certainly have his demonic hordes and fallen angels with him. And altering humanity into something “greater” and “evolved” will most likely be a part of his agenda. God bless you. -B&E
B&E, take a break from finding the devil in hollywood, it’s getting old. This movie explores interesting but scientifically untestable subjects which makes it merely fun to watch, not great but a solid good. The only reason it finds its way into your hall of shame (on you mainly) is it’s suggestion based on simple logic that a vastly evolved human… say us in 200,000 years, would be to us like a god (how we would appear to cavemen, wielding automatic weapons, sparklers and mardi-gras beads) given his superiority in areas that we barely understand. If evolution takes a different route, well then we can pick up this conversation in a few hundred thousand years but for now, can’t you ever just enjoy a good movie without thinking the non existent devil is out to mess with the non-existent god’s people. short and sweet, seriously over reaching on your “observations” as usual, but at least you kept it respectful for the most part. Cheers, hope to pop back in with my atheist comments soon. Take care
Does Satan take a break?
Dr. O says
Satan is an imaginary enemy of an imaginary god. Get real.
Is but terming invisibility as imaginary.
Dr. O says
If you believe in it, I guess it’s the same. When I say imaginary I mean non existent.
If an imagination be non existent, how then in the first place can one imagine at all.
Dr. O says
That makes absolutely no sense, scientifically or philosophically. You Deen anything imagined as real? Because I am imagining many Victoria’s secret models in my room at this moment… yet, none are here… imagine that.
If you want to match wits I’m happy to, but you need to get real and stop trying to sound like yoda. State your point clearly so I can clearly destroy it
Which means that the imagination be existent( to be imagining it all) but has no truth in it, for neither science nor philosophy are able to prove an imagination hence cannot be counted as gods, which you do, in the same way that one imagines that there is no God is as one denying oneself, at the same time knowing that he exists, & truth calls such as fools irrespective of the so called “Education” one has, for as long as one exists & imagine, he will have his “Education” with him & when he goes to the dust so also will that Education” go along with that person & to this it is not surprising that such are not able to understand their own contradictions, leading to Hypocrisy.
Dr. O says
Again, you make a weak and nonsensical statement. A mental construct or perceived/explained reality has no bearing on presupposed mental delusions. I ask for the last time, make a rational statement worthy of my attention or continue this conversation with your imaginary friend.
One thing about logical fallacies… I can see through them with ease, so please refrain from unsubstantiated claims, claims from authority, ignorance and any post hoc ergo propter hoc statements, I am too intelligent and educated to waste my time with anything less than intellectually honest rational conversation.
Abey has his/her own way of speaking and im not sure anyone on this site no what he/she means so what if i were you i would just let it go
The parable of the “sour grapes” is also called the “devils fart”, egged on by its advocates.
Jero Jones says
Bore da/Good Morning and Hi.
In response to your comments to me, dated 31/07/2014.
It is a sad day when a very small minority of Christians out of the world’s two (2) billion Christians, try to manipulate their brand of Christianity on the rest of Christendom. Claiming that science and moreover, academia, and the majority of world’s authoritative scholarship on the Bible and New Testament, are wrong, and that the Bible is infallible. Criticism on the Bible’s errancy is not a modern phenomena, critics have written in antiquity of their concerns for the various translations, and interpolations, that the scriptures have undergone. With the vast majority of the many forgeries perpetrated by the then de facto Orthodox church, in its quest to gain converts from the Pagan hordes of Rome and its empire, to its man-made doctrines authenticated by various church council. Some scriptures were seen as authoritative before the early 1800’s which scholars of that period and modern now recognised as pseudepigraphic. Many of the claims of spurious canonical scriptures, come from a source that most scholars can point a finger at, namely the Bible, which is controversial and contradictory. Example, the epistles of Peter are seen by the majority of scholars as pseudepigraphic, with several citing the Bible itself as a source for rejection of their [epistles/letters] authenticity. This is was the book of Acts says: Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.[Acts 4:13 KJV] Christian apologetics have over the years come up with some fancy rebuttals on this claim, one being that Peters dictated to a scribe, however, the scholars have all rejected this claim, saying Peter as well as Jesus and all the disciples were Aramaic speakers, and that they or Peter could not have dictated to a scribe in Greek, as the experts state that the Acts of Peter were written by a highly skilled Greek scholar, expert in rhetoric, etc.
Once again B&E malignes and wrongly criticize the authors that I cite as anti-Christian, nothing can be further from the true, especially in the case of the distinguish Prof. Bart D. Ehrman. He is a New Testament scholar, and seen as a world authority by his peers, which includes the Distinguish Evangelical Prof. Craig A. Evans. Bart Ehrman is one of only a few modern scholars, who has actively claimed that Jesus was not a myth, but was a person that actually existed.[Did Jesus Exist? by Bart D. Ehrman (2012)] He is also opponent of Mythicist.
There is no need to comment, as all has been said by both parties.
Jero Jones, Mab Cymru
No not all has been said. You are once again wrong, and are cherry picking scriptures to try and prove a false claim.
This is was the book of Acts says: Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.[Acts 4:13 KJV] Christian apologetics have over the years come up with some fancy rebuttals on this claim, one being that Peters dictated to a scribe, however, the scholars have all rejected this claim, saying Peter as well as Jesus and all the disciples were Aramaic speakers, and that they or Peter could not have dictated to a scribe in Greek, as the experts state that the Acts of Peter were written by a highly skilled Greek scholar, expert in rhetoric, etc.
Once again, you doubt the supernatural power of God and of the Holy Spirit. Lets go back a couple chapters and read what happened on the day of Pentecost. This will reveal why they now had the ability to speak multiple languages.
And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
Acts 2:1-11 (KJV)
As you can see, when they were filled with the Holy Spirit, they now had the ability to speak multiple languages so they could preach the gospel to all the nations. I would imagine, if God has the power to give unknown languages to “unlearned” men, then they would have also been given the ability to write those languages. Jero, God’s supernatural power can give sight to the blind, heal the sick, cast out demons, and give the ability of “unlearned” men to speak and write multiple languages. If you don’t believe any of that, then I wouldn’t expect you to believe that He also has the power to contain and keep His written word true to what it is for thousands of years. It’s very simple, God knows that the word we have today is what he originally breathed, it’s up to you to believe it or not. We as Christians can only present it to you, if you choose not to believe, then that’s your choice. It seems to me that your surrounding yourself with teachers, teaching what your itching ears want to hear, because you’ve already made that choice. I feel sorry for you brother, you think your free, and everything you believe is truth but you couldn’t be farther from it.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2 Timothy 4:3 (KJV)
Jero Jones says
Prynhawn da/Good afternoon and Hi
Sorry about the delay in replying to your comments, I have been extremely busy with one thing and another. I have been to the diabetes clinic in between research a project Y Freuddwyd Daliwr (The Dreamcatcher), which is not a fairytale, although some mythicist would call it that. Its a story of Saul of Tarsus, probably better known as Paul, how had a dream or a vision on his way to Damascus, and it is this dream that authenticates his being an apostle, and its written in Cymraeg (Welsh, the oldest language in Europe).
Sorry for digressing. My gott (German)! Are you seriously saying supernatural forces are behind Christianity, are you honestly saying that god turned all the apostles into wizards or magicians and they took an acid trip, which allowed them to go all gobbledygook. Sorry, I jest! So what you are saying is that the Bible says one thing, but means something else. That is what I have been commenting on all this time. The bible is inconsistent and is in err, as each chapter/book contradict each other.
Example 1, on the subject of death: Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.”[Genesis 6:3]
However, Psalm tell us it is less than 120: The years of our life are seventy, or even by reason of strength eighty; yet their span is but toil and trouble; they are soon gone, and we fly away.[Psalm 90:10] But, Genesis in contradiction itself again’ it says that Methuselah lived for 969 years [Genesis 5:27], Jared lived for 962 years [Genesis 5:20], Noah lived for 950 years [Genesis 9:29], not forgetting Adam who lived for 930 years [Genesis 5:5], and Eve who supposedly lived for 940 years? With lots more biblical figures living to their 800’s, 700’s, 600’s, 400’s, 300’s, 200’s, and 100 + years, etc.
Example 2, about life after death: Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgement, but has passed from death to life.[John 5:24 ESV]
“For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished; nevermore will they have a share in anything done under the sun.”[Ecclesiastes 9:5-6, NKJV]
Example 3: On tongues: 1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. 5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. 7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? 8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? 9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, 10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.[Acts 2-11]
1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. 2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. 5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.[1 Corinthians 14:1-5 KJV]
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.[John 5:24 ESV]
So it is only god that understands gobbledygook, and not mere men!
As I have previously said, that any citations I make will not be acceptable to you or any of the conservative Christians, that hold the view of Biblical inerrancy, however, I will not name names, but I will leave you with this quote from the Oxford Annotated Bible: To provide a good overview of the majority opinion about the Gospels, the ‘Oxford Annotated Bible’ (a compilation of multiple scholars summarizing dominant scholarly trends for the last 150 years) states (pg. 1744): “Neither the evangelists nor their first readers engaged in historical analysis. Their aim was to confirm Christian faith (Lk 1.4; jn 20.31). Scholars generally agree that the Gospels were written forty to sixty years after the death of Jesus. They thus do not present eyewitness or contemporary accounts of Jesus’ life and teachings.”
No disrespect is intended, just the truth as academia and the scholarship are in agreement on this issue.
Jero Jones, Mab Cymru
Are you seriously saying supernatural forces are behind Christianity, are you honestly saying that god turned all the apostles into wizards or magicians and they took an acid trip, which allowed them to go all gobbledygook.Sorry, I jest! So what you are saying is that the Bible says one thing, but means something else.
Of course God has supernatural power, It’s proven all throughout the Bible. But like I said, a non-believer like yourself who seems to have a pre-conceived notion of the one true God Jesus Christ, will believe absolutely anything that claims to disprove it. I’m honestly saying that God gave us (believers) the Holy Spirit just as Jesus said He would (John 14:26, John 16:7). With this Holy Spirit, comes the power to heal the sick, cast out demons, and most importantly, it provides a comforting light that shines in a very dark and evil world filled with blasphemers like yourself. In fact, the Holy spirit is the only thing restraining satan until the rapture happens (2 Thessalonians 2:6-7). And when in my comments did I ever contradict what the Bible says? I made it very clear, that the Bible means what it says and that God absolutely never contradicts himself. Never did I state, “the Bible says one thing but means another”.
As I have previously said, that any citations I make will not be acceptable to you or any of the conservative Christians, that hold the view of Biblical inerrancy
Of course they won’t, BECA– USE YOUR WRONG! The people you give quotes from, want to believe the same thing you do, usually based off of hatred or some other pre-conceived notion that God doesn’t exist. It doesn’t matter how many facts I or anyone else can give you, you just don’t want to believe, your heart is too hardened.
Scholars generally agree that the Gospels were written forty to sixty years after the death of Jesus. They thus do not present eyewitness or contemporary accounts of Jesus’ life and teachings.”
And again, you are 100% wrong as usual. The first gospel was written only 30 years after the resurrection of Christ. If John (which scholars agree was only 19 when he was with Jesus), wrote his Revelation from 90-95 ad, that puts him to only about 80 years old when Revelation was written. I believe the book of Mark and Matthew were written somewhere between 50 and 70 ad (I’ll check my facts when I get home from work), which then is no doubt they were eye witnesses. Brother, if someone is 20 years old when they became a disciple of Jesus, and wrote their testimony only 40 years later, that puts them at 60, do the math Jero. And when you look at history and documents relating to the existence of Julius Caesar, Plato and other figures of antiquity, only 40-60 years is really good. The earliest dated document relating to the existence of Julius Caesar is called the Gallic Wars. And it dates from 900 ad, that is 1000 years after he apparently existed. But I’m sure theres no doubt in your mind that Caesar is a very real figure from history. Same thing with Plato, the earliest dated document dates to about 900 years after Plato existed. Theres actually more documents from history relating to the existence of Jesus Christ than Plato, Julius Caesar and Homer combined. But again, you are so hardened of the truth, that you choose to look past all the facts that prove you wrong.
Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
John 12:39-40 (KJV)
Jero, just wanted to correct you on this statement: “Scholars generally agree that the Gospels were written forty to sixty years after the death of Jesus. They thus do not present eyewitness or contemporary accounts of Jesus’ life and teachings.”
This has been disproven by the discoveries at Qumran, where large fragments of New Testament writings have put to rest any doubt as to their antiquity being within the eyewitness period. Just from Cave 7, discovered in 1972, we know not only were these written by AD 68, but that the Gospel of Mark, Paul’s first letter to Timothy, the letter of James, the Book of Acts, and the second letter of Peter, were all written, copied, and distributed throughout the Roman Empire well before AD 68. This is easily proven. The fact most academics simply choose to ignore this speaks volumes as to their purposes and bias.
Shalom my friend.
Jero Jones says
Bore da/Good morning and Hi
The main finds at Qumran were between 1946-56, and are what are termed ‘the Dead Sea Scrolls.’ What you are referring to is commonly referred to as 7Q5 or Qumran Cave 7, is a fragment the size of a small business card, which was alleged by a Spanish papyrologist and scholar Jose O’Callaghan, as part of the gospel of Mark, however, scholars have now universally rejected it, because what Greek letters or words that are available on the fragment, do not match the purported verses of Mark 6:52-53.
Heddwch, Shalom, and Peace to you my friend.
Jero Jones, Mab Cymru
Ah,Jero,a predictable response. Virtually all critics who have taken pains to comment on the matter of Cave 7 have focused on fragment 7Q5, which holds identifying letters from Mark 6: 52-53. At all costs, they had to ‘prove’ that the identification was false, otherwise fame, fortune, and everything they had ever said or written, were about to go down into oblivion. They therefore took shameful recourse to deception and lied about O’Callaghan’s investigation of the fragment in an effort to persuade the public and all his colleagues that O’Callaghan’s procedures were faulty, inadequate and unreliable. It was a character assassination, a thoroughly nasty thing to do. The evidence was simply too strong that Mark’s Gospel had indeed been found in Cave 7, and if known beyond study walls, it would undo all that higher criticism had striven to attain – the corruption and denigration of the New Testament. It was a shameful business, but who amongst the critics, even now, would ever dare to say so? To contradict the academic status quo would be professional suicide. However, the matter simply will not go away. As O’Callaghan himself noted, the fragment was, and is, a New Testament fragment, and besides, 7Q5 is not the greatest problem the critics are faced with. What of all the other fragments that were found with it?
7Q4, for example, should be easy for the critics to dismiss. It is, in fact, a fragment of Paul’s first letter to Timothy (1 Timothy 3: 16-4: 1, 3), and is somewhat more substantial in size and content than 7Q5. Its lettering is certainly a lot clearer. In other words, there is plenty of material here for the critics to show that O’Callaghan and the rest of us are deceived, and that it is in fact something else entirely.
But there’s another problem for the critic. Like 7Q5, 7Q4 is written on only one side, which means that it is from a scroll. According to the status quo, no New Testament Book was written on a scroll, so I can see the critics’ problem. Once archaeology proves that this or that notion could not have been right, the authority of the status quo collapses, and the entire edifice of higher criticism collapses along with it. It must be very distressing for them, but not as distressing as having to read the New Testament passage of which 7Q4 is merely a portion. It reads: “Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils; speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their consciences seared with a hot iron….” (1 Timothy 3: 16-4: 2) No wonder they shy away from it. For many of them, that must be like looking into a mirror. So much, then, for the higher critics.
On another note, we may interest ourselves in the following facts: 7Q5 and the other Cave 7 fragments offer one distinctive advantage… historically, we know that they must have been written before AD 68, when the Qumran caves were closed, and palaeographically, we have the neutral and unbiased verdict of C. H. Roberts… given before any identification attempt had been made, that 7Q5 is written in a style of writing which came to an end c. AD 50. The same palaeographic evidence belongs, of course, to all the other fragments found in Qumran Cave 7, yet, tellingly, not even criticism’s greatest experts dare attempt to tell us what writings those fragments represent. That’s because they know for a fact that they belong to various Books of the New Testament, but they dare not say so, because even the simplest argument against that fact must involve them discussing evidence which would destroy the critics’ case at a stroke. Hence, the New Testament fragments of Cave 7 are simply no longer mentioned — except for the lie that they remain ‘unidentified’. O’Callaghan identified them years ago.
As for 7Q5, the Spanish mathematician, Albert Dou, has calculated that the chances of the fragment not being that of Mark 6: 52-53 is less than 1 in 900,000,000,000. Need anything further be said?
Jero Jones says
Prynhawn da/Good afternoon and Hi
I am afraid you have academia wrong, it does not work the way you report, scholars submit their findings (publish) to their peers (other scholar or places of learning), etc. History is about finding the truth, every field, be it New Testament scholarship, biblical history, exegetes, papyrologists, and palaeography, etc., would never withhold or sweep under the table evidence that would clear, in this case, the O’Callaghan theory on 7Q5, and other material you have mentioned.
Academia resolved 7Q5 in the late 1990’s, when a microscopic analysis was done one fragment, and I have taken the liberty of typing its finding, the the citation of a book review, which read: …Finally, in line 2 [of the fragment] the proposed reading αυ]τωνη[καρδια is impossible, because the text cannot be transcribed ΤΩΝ but as ΤΩΙ with iota subscript (τῴ), which makes up a completely different grammatical form….79 Therefore, it is definitely impossible that 7Q5 represents the text of Mark I:52-53….. Citation 79 Reads: Thus already, see Baillet, “Grotte 7” (DJD 3), 144, pl. 30. See now also Riesner, Essener und Urgemeinde, 134; and-on the basis of a new microscopic analysis of the fragment–Robert H. Grundy, “No NU in line 2 of 7Q5: A final Disidentification of 7Q5 with Mark 6:52-53. [The Bible and the Dead Sea Scrolls: the Scrolls and Christian Origin, Vol 3, p. 429, Edited by James H. Charlesworth]
Jero Jones, Mab, Cymru
You either believe Jesus was God and saved you from sin or you don’t. End of story.
Jero Jones says
Bore da/Good morning and Hi
Thanks for the mail, and to answer your question on whether I believe that Jesus was God! The answer is a definite No! It took the early orthodox church (aka Catholic church), 3oo years after the death of Jesus, to come up with the Trinity theory, which was voted on at the council of Nicaea in 325 CE (look it up). A council that was at the behest of the belligerent emperor Constantine I (306-37 CE), who committed Familicide, and was a devout Pagan Sun (Sol Invictus) worshipper. However, the liar Eusebius of Caesarea wrote that Constantine was baptised on his death-bed in 337. The other reason for me not believing in Jesus as a god, is the Bible, a book that I have on several occasion acknowledge to be contradictory and is errant. It tells us that he is the son of god, and not God! The god theory as I aforesaid came about at the council of Nicaea in 325. Below are a few citations from the Bible that clearly show Jesus as the Son!
Matthew 3:16-17 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:[also in Mark 1:11, 9:7; Luke 3:21-22, 9:35]
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Matthew 21:11 And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee.
Matthew 26:39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
John 1:32-34 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
One also must not forget Romans 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.[All citations are taken from the KJV]
In addition, you can gather more of the information on God the father, and Jesus the Son for any reputable bible site on the net such as: The Bible Gateway, Bible Hub, openbible, or just follow the link: bibleabookoftruth.com/godthefatherandjesushisson.pdf
Jero Jones, Mab Cymru
Again, all the claims you make about Jesus being made up hundreds of years later, are completely false. And as usual, you give no references to the information you post except, “look it up”. This is starting to get absurd Jero. God the Father, God the Son, and the Holy spirit have been around before time itself. It’s not something that was made up 1700 years ago. It is possible that, 1700 years ago is when they decided to call it a “trinity”, but that doesn’t mean the trinity hasn’t always been there. The word “Bible”, is not anywhere in the Bible. It’s a name that man has given to the word of God. The scriptures themselves are much older than inventing and use of the word “Bible”, and it doesn’t mean that the scriptures didn’t exist before man decided to call the collective works the “Bible”, you see my point? I think deep down, you just have a strong hatred towards the one and only true God Jesus Christ. That’s why you continue to come back to a Christian website to bash the gospel. That’s called bondage my brother. Jesus is considered the “Son”, because HE was born in flesh, He is just the bodily form of God the Father. As far as your concern with Jesus not being God, as always, scripture will rebuke you. God bless.
I and my Father are one.
John 10:30 (KJV)
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
John 14:9 (KJV)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:1 (KJV)
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
1 Timothy 3:16 (KJV)
Dave R says
This is very long after your comments, but I have a few questions for you. Not sure if you’ll get this, but I don’t know any other venue for contact, and your previous comments roused my curiosity.
Firstly, I am curious as to why you would frequent this sites comments section. Your views seem to come from a very different perspective than every other commenter here. As far as I can tell, all you’ve really said about your own beliefs is that you believe in Jesus as a man, that you view the the Bible as a inconsistent document, and I believe you implied that you believe in God.
Do you define yourself as Christian, whatever else others might define that as? Or are you a Theist, Jew, Muslim, Scientologist, agnostic, atheist, or part of some other easily definable group?
I am simply trying to understand, not disputing, arguing, or some other variant.
As I am asking, I’ll provide the same. I stumbled onto this article about Lucy while searching for what other people thought about a sequence near the end of the film, which appeared to be forwarding the idea of panspermia. This is an idea that I thought strange to be included in a film ending with a reverse time sequence to the origin of the universe, since panspermia is relatively unestablished, and many of the other images (while very fanciful) are based on firmly accepted ideas in mainstream science, such as the moon/earth collision, conceptions of quantum foam etc.
I kept reading because the author had such a different perspective to my own, I had to keep going. Like peering into a world I don’t see into often. Likewise with most of the comments. I know people who think like the author, and many of the other commentators here, and I believe I understand them. Your own comments however, leave me perplexed. I agree with much of what you said, but do not understand where you are coming from.
As to what I am: confused with respect to religion. I don’t take the Bible as a document with no historical inaccuracies. I was formerly mormon, then garden variety protestant, and now just lost. I am getting a second degree in genetics right now, trust in empirical evidence, and do not believe that Christianity and Darwinism are necessarily exclusive.
I have a question about born again christians. I read some comments in a forum where this person said they believed in christ but the replied to that comment that she wasnt a true follower of christ cause she wasnt born again. Why would a person being born again again even matter?
Beginning and End says
Hi Child ofRa,
It matters because there will be no sin permitted in Heaven. Our spirits, before we are saved, are corrupted by sin. It will not enter Heaven. When a person is born again, they receive a new spirit, born of God, that cannot sin:
Unless you are born of God, you will not be in God’s Kingdom. A true Christian has a new spirit, born of God. And at the resurrection, also known as the Rapture, the Christian receives a new glorified body, created by God, to be completely redeemed.
Through Christ we are once again reconciled and at peace with God, as our sins are forgiven and we receive a new born spirit indwelling us. Absent this, a person is still guilty of all of their lifelong sins and damned to hell and the lake of fire. Which group do you fall in?
Thank you for the explanation, so would this also apply to children and babies? What if they die young, does their souls go straight to hell since as you stated
“Our spirits, before we are saved, are corrupted by sin.”
Beginning and End says
See this article:
Okay read the article
1. You said
In this passage, God was punishing the ancient Israelites for their disobedience in the wilderness but He specifically exempts the children and allows them to enter the Promised Land because at the time of the sinning they “had no knowledge between good and evil.” Thus children who are too young to understand morality receive God’s Grace and pardon.”
-So children have no knowledge of good and evil and thus because they are too young recieve pardon and grace.
2. Adam and eve were punished because they ate from the tree of good and evil. So my thing is eve was tricked by the serpent aka satan into eating the fruit. Now god said dont eat it but given that god created eve and adam as full grown adults doesn’t mean they are adults mentally. They were just recently born and so everything they experience is pretty much like a child exploring the world for the first time.
3. How wwas adam and eve suppose to know the serpent was a deciever. They dont not have knowledge of good and evil, they know everything that god has created is good, the gardens, the animals etc. So when introduced to the serpent they acted like a child would when a stranger danger offers you free candy
You are projecting. We/You have no idea how they felt or thought. We can only go on what’s given in the Word. Additionally, when Jesus came and died, he brought on the new covenant and/or promise which superseded anything else.
Leeloo, the “perfect” humanoid woman in The Fifth Element sounds first like a reference to Lilith aka Lilitu or Lilu, and is a direct smack in the face to God’s having created Eve perfectly, and the New Eve, the Virgin Mary, whom God created perfectly to bring forth the Savior Jesus. Can’t get anymore blasphemous than that movie.
Nice analysis! Jesus bless you all!
“Ye be as gods” is what the serpent told Eve, meaning to be as the “gods” of the golden calf , now figured by the many alters in the British FREEMASONIC Israeli Supreme court , that where/is to human sacrifices & temple prostitutions, all of this come against the Christ, when the intention of God by His Christ is to the Biblical words “When you see Him you be as He is”. For before the foundations God choose each one in His Christ.
“Because they have not the love for the truth, God sends a strong delusion that they may believe THE LIE”. The Lie of the golden calf “O Israel thy gods that brought thee out of Egypt” for Egypt that enslaved a people Physically then, now comes to enslave the world Spiritually, through a people by the said delusion to be deceived by the Sorcery – the Prophecy , with Lucy playing her part beguiled through the imaginations of satanic minds, in the Enmity against God.
Jero Jones says
Prynhawn Da/Good afternoon and Hi
Reference to your comment on 14/08/2014.
Again you accuse me of falsely stating factual evidence, especially on the citations given. I did not give a citation on the subject of the trinity, I just added “check it out,” as the internet is awash with the information of the Niceae Creed, which was the acceptance of the Trinity by the church council at Nicaea in 325 CE.
However, the church scholar Weaver wrote: what is today referred to as the Niceae Creed is actually not the product of the First Council of Nicaea (325), the first ecumenical council, but of the First Council of Constantinople (381). There is no extant official record of the former council. but unofficial sources, most significantly a letter of Eusebius of Caesarea [263-339], report the actions of the council. Its creed, especially the anathemas, was designed to disallow the Arian subordination of the Son. The Son is of the “same substance” as the father.
As was the case of the council of 325, there are no extant records of the council of 381. The creed associated with it, technically known as the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed, was first used officially seventy years later at the Council of Chalcedon (451), the forth ecomenical council. There it was presented as an elaboration of the faith of 325 made necessary by theological questions that had arisen subsequent to Council of Nicaea. Thereafter the creed of 381 was generally viewed as an enlarged yet trustworthy expression of the faith expressed at Nicaea.
Recent textual studies have demonstrated that the creed of 381, although in accord with the creed of 325, was not simply an expansion of it. Instead, the latter creed was derived from another, perhaps liturgical, sourse, which the members of the council likely amended. Most significantly, it addresses the person and work of the Holy Spirit, leaving no doubt that the Spirit is to be worshiped as God, although the language of “same substance” used with regard to the Son is not repeated.
Language about the origin of the Spirit became a source of controversy between Christians in the East and those in the West. The creed states that the Spirit “proceeds from the Father.” The West latter added the filioque,* thereby amending the creed to read “proceeds from the father and the Son.” That unilateral changed contributed to the eventual split of the church in the East and the West.[under heading Nicene Creed, p. 462, by Rebecca H. Weaver, found in The New Westminster Dictionary of Church History: The Early Medieval and Reformation Eras, ed. Robert Benedetto]
*Definition: Filioque is a Latin word meaning “and the Son” which was added to the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed by the Church of Rome in the 11th century, one of the major factors leading to the Great Schism between East and West.[source: http://orthodoxwiki.org/Filioque%5D
On your verses you quote, 1 Timothy, whereas 1 and 2 Timothy are pseudepigraphic/forgery. I have pointed this out on other occasions, so who is getting absurd, look it up, there is no need to give a citation, as all you need to do is is type in “Epistles of Paul” and you should get 1,000’s of hits.
Jero Jones, Mab Cymru
You Need Schooling says
Blessed is the holy and righteous name of the God and Father of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. The most high God, the living God. The God and Father of Abraham, Isaac and Israel, and my God, too.
Very good report, B&E. As always. I thank God for your Biblical wisdom and insight in everything you report on. I have nothing to add about this movie “Lucy”, except to say that I myself do not wish to ever be a ‘transhuman”, or to have so-called “superhuman” abilities in anything. I do not want to know “everything”; I’m not the type of person who wishes to one day have the ability to fill my brain with knowledge about everything. Some things I don’t really want to know about (a bit of humor there). I do not want to be so physically strong (like the worshipped superhero comic characters/idols) that I could lift a 200-ton skyscraper with one hand. Exaggerated abilities of that nature are not even necessary in life. I wish to remain exactly as I am: made of flesh and bone, weak and mortal because I know that in my weakness, the Lord God is made strong. But sadly, Satan has deceived so many people in this world into believing that they can achieve superhuman abilities, and that it is beneficial for them to be “superhuman”, and that they themselves can become God-like, or can be their own god. That is a trick of the devil and a subtle one at that. I have read that it is the will of God the Father that no man perish, but sometimes I do wonder, especially when I see the sad, worsening state of mankind on this earth. Some people even cuss me out terribly when I try to witness to them about the good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Beginning and End says
Hi You Need Schooling – Thanks so much for your comments. And I praise God for your willingness to share God’s Word with others. We need much more sharing of the Gospel today in the church! There are many great efforts being carried out by churches to assist the poor, aid those in need and provide care but not being done with a clear Gospel presentation. We need to make sure that we give the everlasting bread first and foremost. God bless and keep up the good work.
To jero: by my name, im sure you understand where i stand on religion but, i can stand on your side in the case with collin. I have had a few words with him on another title on this site and i can see that he is doing the samething with you, that he did with me. He completely agrees with anyone the completely disagrees with anyone that is not of the same faith as he is. Everything you put on the table and honestly believe is true, he claims that it is false or you have no proof of your cliams. Even B&E claims “Once again you make many inaccurate assertions with no proof.” Ask them for “proof” of their beliefs. You will get the same “proof” that you have as “proof”. Quotes from a book. No disrespect but, quotes from a book writen by man, is not considered proof of a god for someone like me. Just know, collin and people like him on here, have the “im christian, im right, your wrong lalala” mentality. He got very deffensive in our conversation and even turn to name calling to try justify his arguement. So just be prepared to buck heads with him. He claimed that is was an angry child that was crying because i couldnt have my way, when in reality, i only asked questions, that he had no factual answers for and wouldnt admit it. So, the more i asked the more defensive he got. Until he started calling names and came up with a copout, simply because he wouldnt admit that he had no real answers for my questions.
It is written “Beware of the leaven of of the Pharisees & the Saducees ” which is to “add & subtract” from the truth of God, in this case to the Law , for the law thus leavened is cursed, even all its Agendas that is being brought about, come its marker “Sodom & its Complacency” against the very Truth of life, which curses carried backwards in terms of belief applies to Paganism & Atheism respectively, even unto those Human Sacrifices & Temple prostitutions in its modern Avatars, both on different sides but of the Same coin working in tandem as seen, all but to undermine the truth of life, off that ‘ole lie from the garden “Ye be as gods” , even by the unknown, for atheism itself is a belief like unto Abortion, Lo the “gods” of death eternal ,deceiving themselves. All but to understand the truth of God for when He planted the tree of “Good & Evil’ but forbid taking its fruit is but to the knowledge of Good & Evil WITHOUT indulging in it , to its fruit. The proof is in the Holy Angels of God off the Tree of Life not indulged in the fruit, but knowing for a surety to differenciate by separating the Good from the Evil, as Prophesied.
Why did god plant tree of good and evil? Why did god create evil? Or allow it to be created? Why did god create this universe with one grand master plan? When he knew the worlld would end up as it is today. What logic was behind creating all of this only to destroy it and start all over “without sin”. The first conflict started in heaven, so if the world starts over, why wont it go back to just how it is today? No matter the ammount of hopeing and praying “thy will be done”,right? Why pray if gods plan is already set? If something good happens “oh prsise god” something bad “oh god works in mysterious ways”. Nonsense. Yall got to come up with some new material to convince the people of today, that god exists. Like change the story of jesus around. Say that the holy spirit got joseph pregnant and he gave birth to jesus. Un-wed teenaged mothers happen everyday. Nothing new.
You told Jero that I started calling you names. When did I do that? I said you were filled with childish anger, which is obvious. And I didn’t get defensive, you did! You asked for proof of Gods existence. The proof is located in creation and the gospel of Jesus Christ. However, you completely ignored everything I said about creation proving God exists, and focused all your hatred towards the gospel and the scriptures I referenced. I say hatred because, the more scriptures I referenced the more angry your posts got. Its very clear that you don’t want proof. As I said before, your only here looking for an argument. I believe you stated on the other article, “I can believe in the worship of Horus because I see the sun everyday”. Why is that you can believe in an Egyptian god but not the God of the Bible who states He created the sun (Genesis 1:16, Psalm 136:8)? By the way, I believe the Egyptian sun god is Ra, which in Hebrew means bad,wicked or evil. So it seems to me, your not a true atheist, your just an anti-christian. I’m sure if I told you I was Buddhist or a Muslim, you would be like “oh that’s so cool good for you, no argument here”. But because im a Christian, now theres a problem. This is why I say your lost. Most real atheists have a problem with any religion affecting their lifestyle, you only have a problem with the Christian religion affecting yours. I’m still praying for you brother! Love you!
For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!
1 Corinthians 9:16 (KJV)
For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
Psalm 1:6 (KJV)
The wicked shall see it, and be grieved; he shall gnash with his teeth, and melt away: the desire of the wicked shall perish.
Psalm 112:10 (KJV)
An Atheist is not one who does not believe in God but one who does not want to believe in God, in order to Justify his Evil intent., the truth of the Golden calf . And when these stand before Him in Judgement they ask why does God Judge , not knowing the definition of God. Like when the mixed multitude made the golden calf speaking a lie, Moses pleaded with God not to destroy them, & so God spared them not because Moses pleaded with Him , but because to give them, unto man by his generations a chance with the advent of His Messiah, come.unto the prophecy ”Cause they Love not the truth, God sends a strong delusion that they may believe THE LIE, their own lie, unto the condemnation . This but to say God, is not slack in his words, for time is his, without exceptions. Even unto a people deluded into thinking God to be sitting cross legged chanting ‘Love & Fresh Air”. . For the events & sufferings in the world least suggest that.
Collin i’ll refresh your memory shortly. Wow abey. So i have “evil intent” because im an atheist? Thats the pot calling the kettle black. Like you know me personally. The only reason you would make such an outlandish claim is because im an atheist, no other reason. How many millions of people have been slaughtered over the centuries because they didnt believe in your god? Remember the dark ages? There were countless people murdered and tortued during these times because of your god. Well, because no one would follow your god because they had other religious beliefs that existed before christianity. Christianity was stolen from many other religions and twisted it into what we have today. Christianity is one of the youngest religions created. Yes “created”. In the begining, man created god. The bible provides no proof of creation or the existance of god. All religions are based on authority, hopes and dreams.
Beginning and End says
You have made many baseless accusations and claims in the threads you are posting in. Please provide any evidence of “millions of people slaughtered” by Christians (even nominal, false Christians). What credible historical source lists millions being killed by Christians in the Dark Ages?
But more important than your wildly incorrect statements is your tone. You have pushed this discussion long enough. You are repeating the same questions and antagonizing those who try to answer. And before you cite their harsh words to you, please recall my prior post to you where I quoted your insults and taunts in comments where you were not even in debate with anyone. They were unsolicited and you simply chose to hurl insults at those you disagree with. Please refrain from this going forward. Thanks.
Ok collin, on to you.
“Arguing with you is like arguing with a weeping child, who’s crying because they haven’t gotten their way.”
“What do you have to live for? It must be depressing knowing that this crappy world is all your ever going to have.”
“No wonder your so angry. And yes dude, your a filthy sinner like everybody. And the reason your so angry with God, is because you know for a fact, that your going to be judged, and it pisses you off knowing that, God’s going to tell you that you failed in life!”
“The reason I said you were clinically depressed, is because you spend so much time bashing the gospel and those who put their faith in it.”
“Your like a little child who whines whether they get their way or not.”
“You seem like a fairly intelligent person” im pretty sure that was supposed to be sarcasm. And yes i’ll admit, i may be wrong on that.
Also from David: “Wow! At least your story does reveal the source of your bitterness.”
David: “You’ve held your own quite well against not one, but two cold hearted skeptics”. Many on here will not consider those examples as name calling because it was a christian doing it to an atheist but, comparing someone to something or someone is name calling. You are comparing someone so, therefore you’re calling the person that which you are comparing them to. Also, if you are going to quote me (or anyone) quote the entirty of it. I said, “Now horas, thats a god i could believe in because i see the sun rise everyday but, i dont see any magical aspects of the sun, like that of the god in a bible.” So therefore there is proof of the sun because you and i see it every morning. And no, i would not say “oh that’s so cool good for you, no argument here” if you believed any other type of religion because as i stated before, ALL (say it with me) A-L-L, ALL religions are a copout because everyone (except non-believers and atheists) are affraid to think or believe that there is no afterlife. Nothing after death. Again i ask, why would there be life after death? Again i say, quotes from a book, writen by MAN is NOT proof that god exists. Again i say, christianity is one of the youngest religions CREATED. Again i ask, if its one of the youngest, why is that the right one to follow? I should ask, HOW can it be the right one to follow, being as it was created. And horus is correct, “Horus is one of the oldest and most significant deities in ancient Egyptian religion, who was worshipped from at least the late Predynastic period through to Greco-Roman times. Horus served many functions in the Egyptian pantheon, most notably being the god of the sun, war and protection. In later Egyptian dynastic times, Ra was merged with the god Horus, as Re-Horakhty (“Ra, who is Horus of the Two Horizons”).” Ra was merged with horus so therefore horus came first. And yes collin, i did copy and paste that. I dont have books on it. Have a nice evening, from your friendly neighborhood atheist. Im going to go be an evil person and spend time with my family and play video games with my son.
Atheists/Sodomites are ones who are quick to accuse & spill their hatred on others thereby reflecting their own guilt against their own Conscience, like as said earlier “in order to their evil intents”, which is what the Golden calf is about, not because they know not repentance but because they dont want to/unwilling, due to harness of their hearts or stuck with their heathen beliefs of human sacrifices & temple prostitutions the biggest killer then & today in the modern avatars physically & spiritually like Abortion/sodomy are gods of the atheists, trying to hide under its very name pretending it is their name as if they they have no given names all but reflecting the rebellion at Eden>
In Biblical terms ’cause they sacrificed unto Molech & took up the star of their god remphan & figures they made to worship or unworship to the atheist, & for this reason God turned aside & gave them up to the host of heaven to say according to the desires of their evil hearts, until this day in the continuation. To know that it is God Himself that puts them into these beliefs by their generations according to their own desires giving them over to their reprobate minds clearly seen & then they question God even as the Atheist who does not want to Believe , but by questioning God itself is proof of acknowledging His existence , this is called plain Hypocrisy.. So God is not a crosslegged idealist but to the words of the Savior’ ” Fear not the ones who harm your body but fear the one who can both kill the body & destroy the soul in hell”. & Because they have not the love of the truth God sens a strong delusion ” to that condemnation. For it is given to preach, even the warnings unlike Babylon & its preachers do.
Who has more hatred and evil intent in their hearts other then most religious people? Religious people hate anyone that does not follow the same faith. You call us names like, heretic, lost, blind, evil, fool. Which i might add the bible says not to do, even though there are several verses with jesus calling people fools. Who is more humble? The people that look into the stars and accepts what the universe has to offer with demonstratable proof or the people that read one book and take it as literal truth with no evidence what so ever and have no remorse for the loss of life in the nonbelievers that they slaughter, all for their peace loving god? To be religious is to close your eyes to reason. I can say, by your deffenition, i am evil, only because i dont believe in your god or any for that matter and i question your god, or any. As for the dictionary deffenition, i am not evil. I dont go out and commit malicious acts in life. I wake up, go to work, have good days and bad days. I have a loving family. All without god involved. Its nothing but, blind pride that keeps religious people going.”Rational arguements dont work on religious people. Otherwise there would be no religious people”
Israel worshipped a certain Queen of heavens & were warned by the Prophet & they replied “We have peace” From then till day not a day of peace have they seen , the same pride that blinds, is what that talks through the Atheist, justifying own pride in the manner mentioned, typical of the Jezebel, Pride the origin of sin that deceived mankind from the beginning till now. However Evil by its intents in this case & since man choose to eat of its fruit, are exhibited so that the Good may be discerned, is also true of the Lucy. a projected atheist to their national anthem “Lo were are gods” as if dropped from the sky thinking that they are their own creators in names & nos. other than their given names, except their god be their own backsides that which they cannot see, to the devils agendas. In short as stated the best is to discern the Good, from the projected Evil come by the pride to its cause.
Exactly. “In short as stated the best is to discern the Good, from the projected Evil come by the pride to its cause.” This description fits religious people (christians mostly) to a T. Couldnt have said it better myself. Your blind pride is the cause of millions slaughtered over the centuries for your god. *the dark ages*
So now the no-name, know how God uses their Evil intents, touch not with a bean pole & Lo they disobeyed & one such rotten fruit is seen.. typically Jezebel.
For even the Jezebel was given to repent & she did not & this is Prophecy , to the meaning Typically Jezebel. . Pride the very cause of sin , through satan , not created as such but became one . The dangers of freemind to the word Freemasonry the very Entity off the Enmity & choice by ignoring its limitations , for even David said to be a man after God’s own heart stared to fall by his flesh into the Pride was reminded to be no more than a worm, .reflected by the Herod who on being heard (spiritually) which even the devil does not dare, speaking as God got eaten up alive by worms formed within him, even Solomon being warned twice did not heed the warning & Lo became the biggest Apostate as also the first great Politican reflecting todays Political systems by the kingdoms of this world that sits against the Kingdom of God by His Christ unto the Mark of the beast . The hardships that God had given man from the very beginning to the correction becomes unbearable, just as cures for Physical ailments become unbearable at times, so much so what would it be for Spiritual ailments & more so to those who keep defying Him, given many chances culminating in the Messiah by the Grace in its period , taking advantage of it like the sodomites waving, his own Bow by the colors before him, for even Grace has its time when it be removed, to the Judgement . For if God has not spared his own how much so them who are not ? for there is no other god beside Him, if the lesson of Egypt is to be learned by its Pharaoh & his gods unto the Pharaoh’s of the day. by their godforsaken laws, its signs are showing.
You got it. I know exactly how god uses his evil intent. Through christians. Tipical christians. Sent out into the world to spread the word of god and to ridicule anyone that calls their bluff. I like you abey, your little parables describe the true nature of god and his followers so accurately. Beautiful. I couldnt do a better job myself.
The comments of mine that you posted was not name calling brother. I was trying to make you realize that your anger is not towards religion, but towards Christianity. And just because you don’t believe in the Bible, it doesn’t mean we hate you. Im pretty sure I have told you multiple times recently, that not only am I praying for your salvation, but that I also Love you brother. If any of us here hated you, we wouldn’t be trying to give you the gospel. I believe, sharing the gospel with you is true love, not hate. So with that said, if my words seemed harsh, Im sorry brother, I do love you man. And Im still going to pray for you. May grace, peace and mercy be unto from God our Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.
This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
1 Timothy 2:3-4
The other film is called the Remaining
As i stated, you or others on here wouldnt see that as name calling. I already knew this. I know how christians go and i dont project my thoughts and questions (you call it anger) to just christianity. I mainly use that group as an example because it was that faith that i chose to follow and it was that faith that let me down. And thats all fine and dandy that you love me and pray for me. I dont get anything out of it but, if it helps you sleep at night, then by all means, waste your time. While you pray that i find salvation, i’ll hope that you open your eyes to reason. And i dont think most christian hate people like me, just riticule us. Since you always like to quote the bible, i’ll give you a quote from the bible. “If any man come to me and hate not his father, and mother and wife and children and brethren and sisters, yea and his own life also, he cannot be my desciple” luke 14:26. So i must hate everyone that i should love, including myself, to be a desciple of jesus? Haha real funny guys. Or what about, “god shall send them strong delusions, that they should believe a lie: that they all may be damned” 2 thessalonian 2:11-12. So god will send you a delusion and cause you to be damned? How do you know its not the people that wrote the bible thats not giving you the delusions? Blind faith with no reguard to reason, should be your answer. Or how bout “god said let there be light and there was light…” gen 1:3-5 but, “god made two great lights, the greater to govern the day and the lesser to govern the night” gen 1:16 and then “evening came and morning came on the fouth day” gen 1:19 how could there be light with no sun or moon til day 4?
So I must hate everyone I love, including myself to be a disciple of Jesus?
Hate here hyperbolically expresses the same principle found in Matt. 10:37. Disciples must love Jesus more than they love their own family members.
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
Matthew 10:37 (KJV)
You also made reference to 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12. However you seemed to completely the 3 verses before that. This will explain why God will send unbelievers a delusion.
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2 Thessalonians 2:8-10 (KJV)
Satan’s activities will result in wide-scale deception of the unbelieving world. First, however, unbelievers reject the truth that would have saved them. Therefore God will send them this “strong delusion” after they have already turned Him away. Their condemnation is based on the fact that they did not believe the truth.
You also mentioned the fact that God said let there be light before He created the Sun and Moon. The answer can be found in Revelation. Let’s read!
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Revelation 21:1 (KJV)
And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Revelation 21:22-23 (KJV)
No temple is needed in the new Jerusalem. God the Father and Jesus Christ are its sanctuary. So as there was light from the Lord before the creation of the physical light sources of the universe (Genesis 1:3, 14-15) there is no need for the sun or moon in the new earth. So I can see your confusion with this one. However, if you don’t believe God has supernatural power to light the universe without the physical stars that do it now, then I can see why you don’t believe he can move men with His spirit to write His spoken word. Love you brother!
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
2 Peter 1:21 (KJV)
Stop trying to change the meaning of the word hate. It says hate And hate means hate. And it illogical to have light without tge sun and the moon in those times. Like i quoted “to be religious is to close ones eyes to reason” religious people arent going to let a little thing like ‘reason’, mess up their argumemt
If you can’t agree on anything about religion you can still probably believe that god of nearly every culture is the purest form of good. So if we could become as god is why wouldn’t god want that. Pure goodness feels no jealousy. At the level of all knowing and pure goodness what bad could come of that. Who can say that’s not our purpose in life. That god wants us to discover this. Does every father want their children to grow into the knowledge the father has learned and beyond?
And if you say we cannot know what god wants for us then I ask you how he could ever expect us to achieve a goal we do not know (even by instinct) we were asked to achieve? How can we ever be judged by laws we don’t know exist?
Maybe evil is something you know your doing and not a quiz bowel question answered when you reach the end if your days. Do you really think when die you going to be standing in front of some guy and he’s going to say, “Mormon, the correct answer was Mormon. ” Maybe you think, if you do want you think is right that will be right? Maybe you not the only one that thinks that way?
Do you realize you asking for the stop of learning to which the end goal is to have only spiritual exploration as the frontier? To me seeking knowledge is the greater good. The tree the apple (which of course wasn’t really an apple, probably a pomegranate since apple trees aren’t indigenous to the area the bible described the garden of Eden was in. And it is a translation from Hebrew to English) was in was called the tree of knowledge and also the tree of life. I don’t think that means god wants us to be ignorant and kill ourselves.
Pur e Goodness include the so called god/esses engaging in Sodomic activity among themselves, in which case man has become like these so called gods unto the words of the Devil “Ye be as gods”( for he dare not to say “Ye be as God” The God,) except that he/she are unable to look at their own backsides without aid & still have to die. This is but following the big lie.
I agree with alot of what you said kelly except, for the “god” part. I dont think its god. I think its your conscience. With or without god, you will still have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. For a good person to commit evil deeds, takes religion. I’ve said numerous times on here, the “dark ages” was the time when christianity tried to rule the world. Look in your history books and see how christians tortured and slaughtered people that didnt believe in the christian god. And this is supposed to be a peaceful god? Christians stole alot of their rules from other religions that existed long before christianity. It is one of the youngest religions created. So how could the traditional christian god exist if, there were other gods in place before him?. Like i daid, you made alot of good points just, not the god part.
So indeed as seen, an Atheist is but a hidden Pagan advancing the Jezebel spirit, jealous for its sodomic god/esses through spewing their errors unto the whole world by the hatreds as their slave here profess it, but then best said let the truth be discerned from this to its purpose & that be on record. To a pagan one of her ‘ess showing all things wrong so that what is right may be discerned/understood, for none are born arsewise but some become, is but all are given names, but some making it otherwise like the word atheist to its “ism”,again to say the existant making themselves non-existant using convenient channels, the fiddle hole way. That lie of the devil is indeed a big one- Gigantic in Proposition.
Haha. “There is no reasoning with religious people, otherwise there would be no religious people”. I must say, i still dont see how ‘I’M’ the one spreading evil. Im questioning your religion so, i’m spreading evil? Gotcha. Abey, you are obviously in the same boat with a few other people on here that cant/wont answer my questions. Luke 24:25
And he said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!” Since you all like quoting the bible so much
The reference you made to Luke 24:25. You really need to read form verse 13 to 27 to know why Jesus said this. Lets read!
13And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs.
14 And they talked together of all these things which had happened.
15 And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.
16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.
17 And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?
18 And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?
19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:
20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.
21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.
22 Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulchre;
23 And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive.
24 And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not.
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
Luke 24:13-27 (KJV)
So as you can see, these two men didn’t believe Jesus rose from the dead. All the miracles they saw, and everything Jesus promised them, seemed to these men to not be true. They still doubted and had little faith. So Christ had to tell them all the things concerning Him in the scriptures. From Moses unto all the other prophets. And it was just shortly after, they invited Him in for a meal. When Jesus blessed the bread and broke, then they knew it was Him.
28 And they drew nigh unto the village, whither they went: and he made as though he would have gone further.
29 But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them.
30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.
31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.
32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures.
Luke 24:28-32 (KJV)
After this, they got up and told the disciples exactly what they saw. And Jesus appeared again.
33 And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them,
34 Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon.
35 And they told what things were done in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread.
36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
Luke 24:33-36 (KJV)
I pray that this answers your question concerning this scripture. Love you brother, Peace!
But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed
Isaiah 53:5 (KJV)
” Slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken” is to mean they have not believed or are slow to believe what the Prophets Prophesied even by the words of Jesus unto the disciples of John who came asking “If he was the prophesied Messiah”. In short Jesus answered “Know him by his specific works” that which were foretold by the Prophets of ‘ole. The very reason why many of the Jews missed out the Prophesied Messiah ’cause they were not well versed with what the Prophets said, Even as the Bible says ‘O Jerusalem you who killed your Prophets—‘. how then are they going to listen to what the Prophets foretold, denying it until the day, hiding the guilt, as the Rabbi himself says ‘There has been no Prophecy ever since” unto the Biblically words ‘My people fall because of the lack of Knowledge” to the revelations in the Spirit, for the Spirit is God as God is Spirit, the basis of Life & all that is there in it.
I honestly didnt need to read from anywhere. I quoted the only verse that i needed to. And i wasnt asking a question when i quoted that verse. So i need not your answer but, thanks though. Collin as you and i have both said. There is no winning berween our kind and as i said, people understand things differently and that is why there is no winning with our arguments. Yes in that particular set of scriptures he may have only ment the prophets that spoke to the men but, i’ve seen it over and over. “Prophets”, speaking lies. There is no logical reason of/for god to exist. The bible is a shroud, made to scare and confuse people. I dont see how its possible for someone to believe in ghost stories like this. Do you believe in bigfoot? The mothman? Werewolves? Vampires? Thor? Buddah? Im sure you would say something like “there is no proof they exist” well, your god has the same concept. When you understand why you dismiss ALL other POSSIBLE gods, you will understand why i dismiss yours.
To be dismissive about god is to do the same thing as to believe in god. It is to assume you know that god does or does not exists. No one really knows what is true since there isn’t definitive evidence to support either claim. You can ask anyone if water exists and they will say it does because of the empirical data every human is exposed too. Conversely to say something does not exist because you don’t experience the empirical data other claim too is pompous. Essentially to say you know that answer for or against is equally arrogant.
If the evidence you have experienced for believe in god is enough for you that’s all you need to rightfully have believe. But to say that evidence has to be enough for anyone else is a step over the line. It’s intrusive, bullish, and rude. The sad thing is often it happens and works. Then some sheepish child believes those idea often for the rest of their lives.
If the evidence you have experienced for believe in god is not enough for you that’s all you need to rightfully have no believe. But to say that evidence has to be enough for anyone else is a step over the line. It’s intrusive, bullish, and rude. The sad thing is often it happens and works. Then some sheepish child believes those idea often for the rest of their lives.
What if you said maybe, I believe, or it’s possible instead of telling people how it really is. What if we shared ideas, beliefs, and evidence and really considered what someone was saying instead of holding fast to your own beliefs. Whats the purpose of that? To force, to be angry, to be right? It could be to learn. What if that was the real test? A test of humanity, a test any human of any belief does know for certain is the right course.
Awesome. I wasn’t going to see this, but being that it sends a very interesting message and is a modern garden of eve story like you mentioned isn’t it fascinating how this film draws comparison between the garden of eve, a paradise, and our own world?
Are we not living in a paradise as we speak? :3 The very tree of knowledge surrounds us! We turn its pages daily… literally! Its in our paper, our food, we eat, sleep, and nurture upon its breast. And so, this is in a way our own natural linkage toward the heavens. For if through god we are to find our way baqck, is not the tree and his path carved within knowledge?
I do have to say, it is at least food for thought… but apparently such morsels are to be ignored instead of savored by a handful. A shame really. ^^ It would not surprise me if even this message is withheld, for only the truth is hidden in the minds of heaven’s children. Please, don’t go too hungry.
B&E, since i make “baseless accusations” on the dark ages and christians slaughtering thousands in the name of god. I will let history talk for me: Listed are only events that solely occurred on command of church authorities or were committed in the name of Christianity. (List incomplete)
As soon as Christianity was legal (315), more and more pagan temples were destroyed by Christian mob. Pagan priests were killed.
Between 315 and 6th century thousands of pagan believers were slain.
Examples of destroyed Temples: the Sanctuary of Aesculap in Aegaea, the Temple of Aphrodite in Golgatha, Aphaka in Lebanon, the Heliopolis.
Christian priests such as Mark of Arethusa or Cyrill of Heliopolis were famous as “temple destroyer.” [DA468]
Pagan services became punishable by death in 356. [DA468]
Christian Emperor Theodosius (408-450) even had children executed, because they had been playing with remains of pagan statues. [DA469]
According to Christian chroniclers he “followed meticulously all Christian teachings…”
In 6th century pagans were declared void of all rights.
In the early fourth century the philosopher Sopatros was executed on demand of Christian authorities. [DA466]
The world famous female philosopher Hypatia of Alexandria was torn to pieces with glass fragments by a hysterical Christian mob led by a Christian minister named Peter, in a church, in 415.
Emperor Karl (Charlemagne) in 782 had 4500 Saxons, unwilling to convert to Christianity, beheaded. [DO30]
Peasants of Steding (Germany) unwilling to pay suffocating church taxes: between 5,000 and 11,000 men, women and children slain 5/27/1234 near Altenesch/Germany. [WW223]
Battle of Belgrad 1456: 80,000 Turks slaughtered. [DO235]
15th century Poland: 1019 churches and 17987 villages plundered by Knights of the Order. Victims unknown. [DO30]
16th and 17th century Ireland. English troops “pacified and civilized” Ireland, where only Gaelic “wild Irish”, “unreasonable beasts lived without any knowledge of God or good manners, in common of their goods, cattle, women, children and every other thing.” One of the more successful soldiers, a certain Humphrey Gilbert, half-brother of Sir Walter Raleigh, ordered that “the heddes of all those (of what sort soever thei were) which were killed in the daie, should be cutte off from their bodies… and should bee laied on the ground by eche side of the waie”, which effort to civilize the Irish indeed caused “greate terrour to the people when thei sawe the heddes of their dedde fathers, brothers, children, kinsfolke, and freinds on the grounde”.
Tens of thousands of Gaelic Irish fell victim to the carnage. [SH99, 225]
First Crusade: 1095 on command of pope Urban II. [WW11-41]
Semlin/Hungary 6/24/96 thousands slain. Wieselburg/Hungary 6/12/96 thousands. [WW23]
9/9/96-9/26/96 Nikaia, Xerigordon (then turkish), thousands respectively. [WW25-27]
Until Jan 1098 a total of 40 capital cities and 200 castles conquered (number of slain unknown) [WW30]
after 6/3/98 Antiochia (then turkish) conquered, between 10,000 and 60,000 slain. 6/28/98 100,000 Turks (incl. women & children) killed. [WW32-35]
Here the Christians “did no other harm to the women found in [the enemy’s] tents—save that they ran their lances through their bellies,” according to Christian chronicler Fulcher of Chartres. [EC60]
Marra (Maraat an-numan) 12/11/98 thousands killed. Because of the subsequent famine “the already stinking corpses of the enemies were eaten by the Christians” said chronicler Albert Aquensis. [WW36]
Jerusalem conquered 7/15/1099 more than 60,000 victims (jewish, muslim, men, women, children). [WW37-40]
(In the words of one witness: “there [in front of Solomon’s temple] was such a carnage that our people were wading ankle-deep in the blood of our foes”, and after that “happily and crying for joy our people marched to our Saviour’s tomb, to honour it and to pay off our debt of gratitude”)
The Archbishop of Tyre, eye-witness, wrote: “It was impossible to look upon the vast numbers of the slain without horror; everywhere lay fragments of human bodies, and the very ground was covered with the blood of the slain. It was not alone the spectacle of headless bodies and mutilated limbs strewn in all directions that roused the horror of all who looked upon them. Still more dreadful was it to gaze upon the victors themselves, dripping with blood from head to foot, an ominous sight which brought terror to all who met them. It is reported that within the Temple enclosure alone about ten thousand infidels perished.” [TG79]
Christian chronicler Eckehard of Aura noted that “even the following summer in all of palestine the air was polluted by the stench of decomposition”. One million victims of the first crusade alone. [WW41]
Battle of Askalon, 8/12/1099. 200,000 heathens slaughtered “in the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ”. [WW45]
Fourth crusade: 4/12/1204 Constantinople sacked, number of victims unknown, numerous thousands, many of them Christian. [WW141-148]
Rest of Crusades in less detail: until the fall of Akkon 1291 probably 20 million victims (in the Holy land and Arab/Turkish areas alone). [WW224]
Note: All figures according to contemporary (Christian) chroniclers.
Already in 385 C.E. the first Christians, the Spanish Priscillianus and six followers, were beheaded for heresy in Trier/Germany [DO26]
Manichaean heresy: a crypto-Christian sect decent enough to practice birth control (and thus not as irresponsible as faithful Catholics) was exterminated in huge campaigns all over the Roman empire between 372 C.E. and 444 C.E. Numerous thousands of victims. [NC]
Albigensians: the first Crusade intended to slay other Christians. [DO29]
The Albigensians…viewed themselves as good Christians, but would not accept roman Catholic rule, and taxes, and prohibition of birth control. [NC]
Begin of violence: on command of pope Innocent III (greatest single pre-nazi mass murderer) in 1209. Bezirs (today France) 7/22/1209 destroyed, all the inhabitants were slaughtered. Victims (including Catholics refusing to turn over their heretic neighbours and friends) 20,000-70,000. [WW179-181]
Carcassonne 8/15/1209, thousands slain. Other cities followed. [WW181]
subsequent 20 years of war until nearly all Cathars (probably half the population of the Languedoc, today southern France) were exterminated. [WW183]
After the war ended (1229) the Inquisition was founded 1232 to search and destroy surviving/hiding heretics. Last Cathars burned at the stake 1324. [WW183]
Estimated one million victims (cathar heresy alone), [WW183]
Other heresies: Waldensians, Paulikians, Runcarians, Josephites, and many others. Most of these sects exterminated, (I believe some Waldensians live today, yet they had to endure 600 years of persecution) I estimate at least hundred thousand victims (including the Spanish inquisition but excluding victims in the New World).
Spanish Inquisitor Torquemada alone allegedly responsible for 10,220 burnings. [DO28]
John Huss, a critic of papal infallibility and indulgences, was burned at the stake in 1415. [LI475-522]
University professor B.Hubmaier burned at the stake 1538 in Vienna. [DO59]
Giordano Bruno, Dominican monk, after having been incarcerated for seven years, was burned at the stake for heresy on the Campo dei Fiori (Rome) on 2/17/1600.
from the beginning of Christianity to 1484 probably more than several thousand.
in the era of witch hunting (1484-1750) according to modern scholars several hundred thousand (about 80% female) burned at the stake or hanged. [WV]
incomplete list of documented cases:
The Burning of Witches – A Chronicle of the Burning Times.
15th century: Crusades against Hussites, thousands slain. [DO30]
1538 pope Paul III declared Crusade against apostate England and all English as slaves of Church (fortunately had not power to go into action). [DO31]
1568 Spanish Inquisition Tribunal ordered extermination of 3 million rebels in (then Spanish) Netherlands. Thousands were actually slain. [DO31]
1572 In France about 20,000 Huguenots were killed on command of pope Pius V. Until 17th century 200,000 flee. [DO31]
17th century: Catholics slay Gaspard de Coligny, a Protestant leader. After murdering him, the Catholic mob mutilated his body, “cutting off his head, his hands, and his genitals… and then dumped him into the river […but] then, deciding that it was not worthy of being food for the fish, they hauled it out again [… and] dragged what was left … to the gallows of Montfaulcon, ‘to be meat and carrion for maggots and crows’.” [SH191]
17th century: Catholics sack the city of Magdeburg/Germany: roughly 30,000 Protestants were slain. “In a single church fifty women were found beheaded,” reported poet Friedrich Schiller, “and infants still sucking the breasts of their lifeless mothers.” [SH191]
17th century 30 years’ war (Catholic vs. Protestant): at least 40% of population decimated, mostly in Germany. [DO31-32]
Already in the 4th and 5th centuries synagogues were burned by Christians. Number of Jews slain unknown.
In the middle of the fourth century the first synagogue was destroyed on command of bishop Innocentius of Dertona in Northern Italy. The first synagogue known to have been burned down was near the river Euphrat, on command of the bishop of Kallinikon in the year 388. [DA450]
17. Council of Toledo 694: Jews were enslaved, their property confiscated, and their children forcibly baptized. [DA454]
The Bishop of Limoges (France) in 1010 had the cities’ Jews, who would not convert to Christianity, expelled or killed. [DA453]
First Crusade: Thousands of Jews slaughtered 1096, maybe 12.000 total. Places: Worms 5/18/1096, Mainz 5/27/1096 (1100 persons), Cologne, Neuss, Altenahr, Wevelinghoven, Xanten, Moers, Dortmund, Kerpen, Trier, Metz, Regensburg, Prag and others (All locations Germany except Metz/France, Prag/Czech) [EJ]
Second Crusade: 1147. Several hundred Jews were slain in Ham, Sully, Carentan, and Rameru (all locations in France). [WW57]
Third Crusade: English Jewish communities sacked 1189/90. [DO40]
Fulda/Germany 1235: 34 Jewish men and women slain. [DO41]
1257, 1267: Jewish communities of London, Canterbury, Northampton, Lincoln, Cambridge, and others exterminated. [DO41]
1290 in Bohemian (Poland) allegedly 10,000 Jews killed. [DO41]
1337 Starting in Deggendorf/Germany a Jew-killing craze reaches 51 towns in Bavaria, Austria, Poland. [DO41]
1348 All Jews of Basel/Switzerland and Strasbourg/France (two thousand) burned. [DO41]
1349 In more than 350 towns in Germany all Jews murdered, mostly burned alive (in this one year more Jews were killed than Christians in 200 years of ancient Roman persecution of Christians). [DO42]
1389 In Prag 3,000 Jews were slaughtered. [DO42]
1391 Seville’s Jews killed (Archbishop Martinez leading). 4,000 were slain, 25,000 sold as slaves. [DA454] Their identification was made easy by the brightly colored “badges of shame” that all jews above the age of ten had been forced to wear.
1492: In the year Columbus set sail to conquer a New World, more than 150,000 Jews were expelled from Spain, many died on their way: 6/30/1492. [MM470-476]
1648 Chmielnitzki massacres: In Poland about 200,000 Jews were slain. [DO43]
(I feel sick …) this goes on and on, century after century, right into the kilns of Auschwitz.
Beginning with Columbus (a former slave trader and would-be Holy Crusader) the conquest of the New World began, as usual understood as a means to propagate Christianity.
Within hours of landfall on the first inhabited island he encountered in the Caribbean, Columbus seized and carried off six native people who, he said, “ought to be good servants … [and] would easily be made Christians, because it seemed to me that they belonged to no religion.” [SH200]
While Columbus described the Indians as “idolators” and “slaves, as many as [the Crown] shall order,” his pal Michele de Cuneo, Italian nobleman, referred to the natives as “beasts” because “they eat when they are hungry,” and made love “openly whenever they feel like it.” [SH204-205]
On every island he set foot on, Columbus planted a cross, “making the declarations that are required” – the requerimiento – to claim the ownership for his Catholic patrons in Spain. And “nobody objected.” If the Indians refused or delayed their acceptance (or understanding), the requerimiento continued:
I certify to you that, with the help of God, we shall powerfully enter in your country and shall make war against you … and shall subject you to the yoke and obedience of the Church … and shall do you all mischief that we can, as to vassals who do not obey and refuse to receive their lord and resist and contradict him.” [SH66]
Likewise in the words of John Winthrop, first governor of Massachusetts Bay Colony: “justifieinge the undertakeres of the intended Plantation in New England … to carry the Gospell into those parts of the world, … and to raise a Bulworke against the kingdome of the Ante-Christ.” [SH235]
In average two thirds of the native population were killed by colonist-imported smallpox before violence began. This was a great sign of “the marvelous goodness and providence of God” to the Christians of course, e.g. the Governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony wrote in 1634, as “for the natives, they are near all dead of the smallpox, so as the Lord hath cleared our title to what we possess.” [SH109,238]
On Hispaniola alone, on Columbus visits, the native population (Arawak), a rather harmless and happy people living on an island of abundant natural resources, a literal paradise, soon mourned 50,000 dead. [SH204]
The surviving Indians fell victim to rape, murder, enslavement and spanish raids.
As one of the culprits wrote: “So many Indians died that they could not be counted, all through the land the Indians lay dead everywhere. The stench was very great and pestiferous.” [SH69]
The indian chief Hatuey fled with his people but was captured and burned alive. As “they were tying him to the stake a Franciscan friar urged him to take Jesus to his heart so that his soul might go to heaven, rather than descend into hell. Hatuey replied that if heaven was where the Christians went, he would rather go to hell.” [SH70]
What happened to his people was described by an eyewitness:
“The Spaniards found pleasure in inventing all kinds of odd cruelties … They built a long gibbet, long enough for the toes to touch the ground to prevent strangling, and hanged thirteen [natives] at a time in honor of Christ Our Saviour and the twelve Apostles… then, straw was wrapped around their torn bodies and they were burned alive.” [SH72]
Or, on another occasion:
“The Spaniards cut off the arm of one, the leg or hip of another, and from some their heads at one stroke, like butchers cutting up beef and mutton for market. Six hundred, including the cacique, were thus slain like brute beasts…Vasco [de Balboa] ordered forty of them to be torn to pieces by dogs.” [SH83]
The “island’s population of about eight million people at the time of Columbus’s arrival in 1492 already had declined by a third to a half before the year 1496 was out.” Eventually all the island’s natives were exterminated, so the Spaniards were “forced” to import slaves from other caribbean islands, who soon suffered the same fate. Thus “the Caribbean’s millions of native people [were] thereby effectively liquidated in barely a quarter of a century”. [SH72-73] “In less than the normal lifetime of a single human being, an entire culture of millions of people, thousands of years resident in their homeland, had been exterminated.” [SH75]
“And then the Spanish turned their attention to the mainland of Mexico and Central America. The slaughter had barely begun. The exquisite city of Tenochtitln [Mexico city] was next.” [SH75]
Cortez, Pizarro, De Soto and hundreds of other spanish conquistadors likewise sacked southern and mesoamerican civilizations in the name of Christ (De Soto also sacked Florida).
“When the 16th century ended, some 200,000 Spaniards had moved to the Americas. By that time probably more than 60,000,000 natives were dead.” [SH95]
Of course no different were the founders of what today is the US of Amerikkka.
Although none of the settlers would have survived winter without native help, they soon set out to expel and exterminate the Indians. Warfare among (north American) Indians was rather harmless, in comparison to European standards, and was meant to avenge insults rather than conquer land. In the words of some of the pilgrim fathers: “Their Warres are farre less bloudy…”, so that there usually was “no great slawter of nether side”. Indeed, “they might fight seven yeares and not kill seven men.” What is more, the Indians usually spared women and children. [SH111]
In the spring of 1612 some English colonists found life among the (generally friendly and generous) natives attractive enough to leave Jamestown – “being idell … did runne away unto the Indyans,” – to live among them (that probably solved a sex problem).
“Governor Thomas Dale had them hunted down and executed: ‘Some he apointed (sic) to be hanged Some burned Some to be broken upon wheles, others to be staked and some shott to deathe’.” [SH105] Of course these elegant measures were restricted for fellow englishmen: “This was the treatment for those who wished to act like Indians. For those who had no choice in the matter, because they were the native people of Virginia” methods were different: “when an Indian was accused by an Englishman of stealing a cup and failing to return it, the English response was to attack the natives in force, burning the entire community” down. [SH105]
On the territory that is now Massachusetts the founding fathers of the colonies were committing genocide, in what has become known as the “Peqout War”. The killers were New England Puritan Christians, refugees from persecution in their own home country England.
When however, a dead colonist was found, apparently killed by Narragansett Indians, the Puritan colonists wanted revenge. Despite the Indian chief’s pledge they attacked.
Somehow they seem to have lost the idea of what they were after, because when they were greeted by Pequot Indians (long-time foes of the Narragansetts) the troops nevertheless made war on the Pequots and burned their villages.
The puritan commander-in-charge John Mason after one massacre wrote: “And indeed such a dreadful Terror did the Almighty let fall upon their Spirits, that they would fly from us and run into the very Flames, where many of them perished … God was above them, who laughed his Enemies and the Enemies of his People to Scorn, making them as a fiery Oven … Thus did the Lord judge among the Heathen, filling the Place with dead Bodies”: men, women, children. [SH113-114]
So “the Lord was pleased to smite our Enemies in the hinder Parts, and to give us their land for an inheritance”. [SH111].
Because of his readers’ assumed knowledge of Deuteronomy, there was no need for Mason to quote the words that immediately follow:
“Thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth. But thou shalt utterly destroy them…” (Deut 20)
Mason’s comrade Underhill recalled how “great and doleful was the bloody sight to the view of the young soldiers” yet reassured his readers that “sometimes the Scripture declareth women and children must perish with their parents”. [SH114]
Other Indians were killed in successful plots of poisoning. The colonists even had dogs especially trained to kill Indians and to devour children from their mothers breasts, in the colonists’ own words: “blood Hounds to draw after them, and Mastives to seaze them.” (This was inspired by spanish methods of the time)
In this way they continued until the extermination of the Pequots was near. [SH107-119]
The surviving handful of Indians “were parceled out to live in servitude. John Endicott and his pastor wrote to the governor asking for ‘a share’ of the captives, specifically ‘a young woman or girle and a boy if you thinke good’.” [SH115]
Other tribes were to follow the same path.
Comment the Christian exterminators: “God’s Will, which will at last give us cause to say: How Great is His Goodness! and How Great is his Beauty!”
“Thus doth the Lord Jesus make them to bow before him, and to lick the Dust!” [TA]
Like today, lying was OK to Christians then. “Peace treaties were signed with every intention to violate them: when the Indians ‘grow secure uppon (sic) the treatie’, advised the Council of State in Virginia, ‘we shall have the better Advantage both to surprise them, & cutt downe theire Corne’.” [SH106]
In 1624 sixty heavily armed Englishmen cut down 800 defenseless Indian men, women and children. [SH107]
In a single massacre in “King Philip’s War” of 1675 and 1676 some “600 Indians were destroyed. A delighted Cotton Mather, revered pastor of the Second Church in Boston, later referred to the slaughter as a ‘barbeque’.” [SH115]
To summarize: Before the arrival of the English, the western Abenaki people in New Hampshire and Vermont had numbered 12,000. Less than half a century later about 250 remained alive – a destruction rate of 98%. The Pocumtuck people had numbered more than 18,000, fifty years later they were down to 920 – 95% destroyed. The Quiripi-Unquachog people had numbered about 30,000, fifty years later they were down to 1500 – 95% destroyed. The Massachusetts people had numbered at least 44,000, fifty years later barely 6000 were alive – 81% destroyed. [SH118] These are only a few examples of the multitude of tribes living before Christian colonists set their foot on the New World. All this was before the smallpox epidemics of 1677 and 1678 had occurred. And the carnage was not over then.
All the above was only the beginning of the European colonization, it was before the frontier age actually had begun.
A total of maybe more than 150 million Indians (of both Americas) were destroyed in the period of 1500 to 1900, as an average two thirds by smallpox and other epidemics, that leaves some 50 million killed directly by violence, bad treatment and slavery.
In many countries, such as Brazil, and Guatemala, this continues even today.
More Glorious events in US history
Reverend Solomon Stoddard, one of New England’s most esteemed religious leaders, in “1703 formally proposed to the Massachusetts Governor that the colonists be given the financial wherewithal to purchase and train large packs of dogs ‘to hunt Indians as they do bears’.” [SH241]
Massacre of Sand Creek, Colorado 11/29/1864. Colonel John Chivington, a former Methodist minister and still elder in the church (“I long to be wading in gore”) had a Cheyenne village of about 600, mostly women and children, gunned down despite the chiefs’ waving with a white flag: 400-500 killed.
From an eye-witness account: “There were some thirty or forty squaws collected in a hole for protection; they sent out a little girl about six years old with a white flag on a stick; she had not proceeded but a few steps when she was shot and killed. All the squaws in that hole were afterwards killed …” [SH131]
More gory details.
By the 1860s, “in Hawai’i the Reverend Rufus Anderson surveyed the carnage that by then had reduced those islands’ native population by 90 percent or more, and he declined to see it as tragedy; the expected total die-off of the Hawaiian population was only natural, this missionary said, somewhat equivalent to ‘the amputation of diseased members of the body’.” [SH244]
20th Century Church Atrocities
Catholic extermination camps
Surpisingly few know that Nazi extermination camps in World War II were by no means the only ones in Europe at the time. In the years 1942-1943 also in Croatia existed numerous extermination camps, run by Catholic Ustasha under their dictator Ante Paveli, a practising Catholic and regular visitor to the then pope. There were even concentration camps exclusively for children!
In these camps – the most notorious was Jasenovac, headed by a Franciscan friar – orthodox-Christian serbians (and a substantial number of Jews) were murdered. Like the Nazis the Catholic Ustasha burned their victims in kilns, alive (the Nazis were decent enough to have their victims gassed first). But most of the victims were simply stabbed, slain or shot to death, the number of them being estimated between 300,000 and 600,000, in a rather tiny country. Many of the killers were Franciscan friars. The atrocities were appalling enough to induce bystanders of the Nazi “Sicherheitsdient der SS”, watching, to complain about them to Hitler (who did not listen). The pope knew about these events and did nothing to prevent them. [MV]
Catholic terror in Vietnam
In 1954 Vietnamese freedom fighters – the Viet Minh – had finally defeated the French colonial government in North Vietnam, which by then had been supported by U.S. funds amounting to more than $2 billion. Although the victorious assured religious freedom to all (most non-buddhist Vietnamese were Catholics), due to huge anticommunist propaganda campaigns many Catholics fled to the South. With the help of Catholic lobbies in Washington and Cardinal Spellman, the Vatican’s spokesman in U.S. politics, who later on would call the U.S. forces in Vietnam “Soldiers of Christ”, a scheme was concocted to prevent democratic elections which could have brought the communist Viet Minh to power in the South as well, and the fanatic Catholic Ngo Dinh Diem was made president of South Vietnam. [MW16ff]
Diem saw to it that U.S. aid, food, technical and general assistance was given to Catholics alone, Buddhist individuals and villages were ignored or had to pay for the food aids which were given to Catholics for free. The only religious denomination to be supported was Roman Catholicism.
The Vietnamese McCarthyism turned even more vicious than its American counterpart. By 1956 Diem promulgated a presidential order which read:
“Individuals considered dangerous to the national defense and common security may be confined by executive order, to a concentration camp.”
Supposedly to fight communism, thousands of buddhist protesters and monks were imprisoned in “detention camps.” Out of protest dozens of buddhist teachers – male and female – and monks poured gasoline over themselves and burned themselves. (Note that Buddhists burned themselves: in comparison Christians tend to burn others). Meanwhile some of the prison camps, which in the meantime were filled with Protestant and even Catholic protesters as well, had turned into no-nonsense death camps. It is estimated that during this period of terror (1955-1960) at least 24,000 were wounded – mostly in street riots – 80,000 people were executed, 275,000 had been detained or tortured, and about 500,000 were sent to concentration or detention camps. [MW76-89].
To support this kind of government in the next decade thousands of American GI’s lost their life….
In 1994 in the small african country of Rwanda in just a few months several hundred thousand civilians were butchered, apparently a conflict of the Hutu and Tutsi ethnic groups.
For quite some time I heard only rumours about Catholic clergy actively involved in the 1994 Rwanda massacres. Odd denials of involvement were printed in Catholic church journals, before even anybody had openly accused members of the church.
Then, 10/10/96, in the newscast of S2 Aktuell, Germany – a station not at all critical to Christianity – the following was stated:
“Anglican as well as Catholic priests and nuns are suspect of having actively participated in murders. Especially the conduct of a certain Catholic priest has been occupying the public mind in Rwanda’s capital Kigali for months. He was minister of the church of the Holy Family and allegedly murdered Tutsis in the most brutal manner. He is reported to have accompanied marauding Hutu militia with a gun in his cowl. In fact there has been a bloody slaughter of Tutsis seeking shelter in his parish. Even two years after the massacres many Catholics refuse to set foot on the threshold of their church, because to them the participation of a certain part of the clergy in the slaughter is well established. There is almost no church in Rwanda that has not seen refugees – women, children, old – being brutally butchered facing the crucifix.
According to eyewitnesses clergymen gave away hiding Tutsis and turned them over to the machetes of the Hutu militia.
In connection with these events again and again two Benedictine nuns are mentioned, both of whom have fled into a Belgian monastery in the meantime to avoid prosecution. According to survivors one of them called the Hutu killers and led them to several thousand people who had sought shelter in her monastery. By force the doomed were driven out of the churchyard and were murdered in the presence of the nun right in front of the gate. The other one is also reported to have directly cooperated with the murderers of the Hutu militia. In her case again witnesses report that she watched the slaughtering of people in cold blood and without showing response. She is even accused of having procured some petrol used by the killers to set on fire and burn their victims alive…” [S2]
As can be seen from these events, to Christianity the Dark Ages never come to an end….
Beginning and End says
So in other words, you have NO PROOF from any credible source, that “Christians slaughtered millions during the Dark Ages!!!” This was just a fabricated claim that you have no evidence for. So now you are trying to back out of your claim and lack of evidence by saying “the Dark ages never ended” which of course is just again, made up.
As I told Jero already – all your citing Catholic persecution does is prove the Bible and Christianity CORRECT. The Bible says all people are sinners. All people fall short of the glory of God. Our best “righteousness” is as filthy rags. Christians, myself included, are not exempt. The Catholic Church has certainly committed a number of atrocities over the past 1700 years (although the Crusades were a series of wars and your article you cut and past from does not reflect that), but it is a political organization that has little to do with Biblical Christianity. You even cite the Bible-believing Christian groups (Waldenses, Albigenses, etc.), who they persecuted. None of this does anything to indict Christianity or the Bible. Many people have and will falsely claim to be Christian. Remember, you yourself said you once believed when you went to a church that was teaching false doctrine and selling people on bogus “spiritual experiences.” So there is a perfect example of pseudo-Christianity at work.
I could also easily cite the atheist governments that have committed far more murders than the Catholic Church since its inception. The reign of Mao (an atheistic government) led to the deaths of 100 million alone. Not to mention Stalin, Pol Pot and other atheist regimes which killed tens of millions. Doesn’t that sicken you? Doesn’t that disturb you enough to want to go to atheist forums to tell them of the horrors of their beliefs? And everything I am discussing took place in the past 60 years.
You like Jero, are sitting on a high moral perch, judging the sins of others and condemning them. but what about your sins? Since you are so comfortable listing the sins of others and judging them, what about yours? Have you blasphemed the name of The Lord? Have you stolen? Have you lied? The Lord Jesus says to look upon a woman who is not your wife with lust, is to commit adultery in your heart. Have you ever done that? Will you turn the light of moral judgment on yourself as you have done repeatedly to others? Or do you feel you are above judgment? That is the real issue here. If you are trying to show that Christians or those who call themselves Christians do bad things, my answer is simple – I AGREE. And I put myself at the top of the list. And all this just proves what the Bible says. And I absolutely deserve hell and eternity in the Lake of Fire. Which the Bible also says quite clearly. “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” (Romans 6:23). Trying to point to others as being worse does not somehow erase you own sins that you willingly commit every day. And you will be judged for them. I am not better than you. I am only better off. Why? Because I have humbled myself and acknowledged my sin before God.
Heaven is not earned. It is a gift. And one I hope and pray you receive.
What a list of terrible events! It was a bit unfair at time and a few lies. It said Indians spared woman and children. That is not true, in fact they were know to swing infants by there feet like a bat and smash there heads into trees or structures to kill them.
Christians were very bad people like nearly everyone was in those days. Every single race of people has had members doing every one of those terrible things no matter the religion.
It’s not Christians that are to blame. Not even Christianity. It’s the individuals that commit the crimes.
You make a lot of valid points and your right but what your saying isn’t just true about Christians. It’s true about humans.
Humans that want to do those terrible things are moths to the flame for causes that encourage it. Also humans that want to do those things manipulate causes to fit their desires and call the lambs to help. I think that’s the problem with religions is that they so often create lambs that follow terrible peoples direction. As soon as you start telling people a philosophy on how to be or live it get labeled as a religion and then doom. I think most Christians would agree that their ideals are often interpreted in a way that manipulates people to do bad things. But you have to agree the over all message the bible and nearly every religion is going for is at it’s heart a good one. I believe the message of religion is to be a good person. You don’t need religion to do that and when people start saying you do it become manipulative, bullish, and is probably the number one thing that turns people away from religion. If you want people to take a serious look at your beliefs then you can’t tell them they have to or they are going to burn forever in hell. That doesn’t sound right to me, it doesn’t sound fair. If god is good then he is fair. If your talking about a god that is not good and fair, I am not interested. I am not interested in people that are not good and fair either.
Kelly, i know its not just christians but, this is a christian site. So i will talk about christians. All of those vile acts were done in the name of god, commanded by the church. I have qouted before “with or without god, you will still have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. For a good person to commit evil deeds, takes religion”. To me its not “god”, its my moral conscience. I do good things because it is morally correct, not because god said so. I will give christianity this much, it helps keep people inline with fear, of eternal damnation for doing wrong. Just read the book of revelations, its quite scary. If i believed in ghost stories, i would be terrified after reading that.
Beginning and End says
And what are you writing to Muslims in response to the thousands of murders, beheadings of children, genital mutilation of millions of girls, kidnappings and other atrocities taking place today? Are you posting on Muslims websites challenging the Koran and arguing against the many horrors being carried out today in the name of their god?
I mean wow, that entire list of evil deeds done by christians from an historical site, is no proof? Lol i dont even know what else to say to that. I will agree with you to an extent B&E, when you say the bible is correct. I’ve said it before, the bible is a book of guidelines on how some of us should live. It has some morals but, it teaches that you get rewarded for doing good and severely punished for doing bad. The only reason you follow god is that you are hopeing for this grand reward in the afterlife. So that makes you morally wrong. You are only doing good in hopes of recieveing reward and terrified of the punishment of doing bad. The bible was written by man, from different societies, and they wrote down their own morals. It tells you how to beat your slaves and your slaves should come from your surrounding nations. Is haveing slaves morally correct? Is beating a slave or any person, morally correct? No, i think not. Also, no i dont post anything on muslim sites, i dont know any and i havent looked. I dont know that much about other religions as of yet but, im learning. As i said, i chose to follow christianity and christanity let me down. Its the religion i know most about. Based on the bible and personal events. I am an atheist, i dont believe in any god. And in answer to your ranting questions, yes i have blasphemed the lords name, so therefore there is no chance of me getting into heaven along with my son, being born out of wed-lock. Yes i have lusted in my mind or heart, whatever you want to call it and dont dare tell me you havent. I have never physically lusted with another woman. Im sure that doesnt matter to you, because god said that thinking it, is doing it, right? Yes i have stolen before. No matter the value, i have stolen. No excuses. Of course i’ve lied. And you are no better off then me, just because you professed your sins to your imaginary friend. I have professed my “sins”, wrong doings, to the authorites and i have suffered the consiquences. My conscience is clear and i have straightened out my life and all this happened before and after i was a christian. Having “the fear of god” on your mind is what keeps you inline and quiet. If someone says something to you unneccessarily, i bet you are quick to think,”no, let him be, i have given my heart to the lord and he said turn the other cheek.” “God” keeps you inline. But for someone like me i say, depending on what is said or done, “its not worth my time” or i would say or do something right back at the person. Why? Because im human. No god, controls me
How many people in Communist Russia and China have been killed because of atheism and secularism? None, probably. How can that be? After all, millions and millions of people died in Russia and China under communist governments and those governments were both secular and atheistic, right? So weren’t all of those people killed because of atheism indeed, in the name of atheism and secularism? No, that conclusion does not follow. Atheism itself isn’t a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for. Being killed by an atheist is no more being killed in the name of atheism than being killed by a tall person is being killed in the name of tallness.People were killed in communist nations for a lot of different reasons. Some were communists who disagreed with those in power and were killed because of that. Some were anti-communists opposed the government and were killed for that. Some were simply in the way or inconvenient and were killed for that. These are political disagreements that people were being killed over, not murder in the name of atheism.But weren’t a lot of people killed because they were Christian? Certainly but not simply because they were Christian. Communists typically regarded religious organizations as a hinderance towards the creation of a worker’s paradise. Some religious groups also opposed the communists. Once again, we are generally looking at political issues, not a question of atheism. Even if some people were killed simply because they followed a religion, it does not follow that they were killed in the name of atheism. Why? Because atheism is not inherently opposed to religion: it is possible to be both an atheist and religious and some religions are themselves atheistic. Atheism also isn’t a belief system or ideology which can, by itself, inspire people to do things good or bad.
No one has ever killed anyone in the name of atheism. Stalin and Co may have been atheists but they were quite broadminded and killed anyone that opposed them. Killing in the name of religion is something only theists do.
God is good, whatever you where cruelling about. God its still good to me. Take a good sleep, your father will take care of everything that you can’t handle. Amennn.
God is good to me, whatever you’re cruelling about. He’s good to me. Just go to sleep, your father will take care of you. Nice share my friend…
The Crusades were a series of military campaigns fought mainly between European Christians and Muslims.Christianity, like all the world’s religions, has holy texts and traditions that promote violence as well as love, and Christian institutions and individuals have acted violently as well as peacefully.The relationship of Christianity and violence is the subject of controversy because some of its teachings advocate peace, love, and compassion, whereas other teachings have been used to justify violence and hatred.In the end, the violence, death,destruction and continuing bad blood that last through to the present day would not have occurred without religion. It doesn’t matter so much who “started it,” Christians or Muslims. What matters is that Christians and Muslims eagerly participated in mass murder and destruction, mostly for the sake of religious beliefs, religious conquest, and religious supremacism. The Crusades exemplify the way in which religious devotion can become a violent act in a grand, cosmic drama of good vs. evil — an attitude which persists through today in the form of religious extremists and terrorists. “The consensus among Christians on the use of violence has changed radically since the crusades were fought. The just war theory prevailing for most of the last two centuries — that violence is an evil which can in certain situations be condoned as the lesser of evils — is relatively young. Although it has inherited some elements (the criteria of legitimate authority, just cause, right intention) from the older war theory that first evolved around a.d. 400, it has rejected two premises that underpinned all medieval just wars, including crusades: first, that violence could be employed on behalf of Christ’s intentions for mankind and could even be directly authorized by him; and second, that it was a morally neutral force which drew whatever ethical coloring it had from the intentions of the perpetrators.”
In spite of the many differences among Christians, Jews, and Muslims, they share a fundamental belief in God as compassionate and just. As a result, those communities have often nurtured people of extraordinary kindness and courageous commitment to justice. In contrast to the deep hatred that obviously inspired the September 11 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, the vast majority of Muslims, like their Jewish and Christian counterparts, are appalled and sickened by terrorism, and utterly repudiate the mass murder of innocent people. Religion is clearly not the only catalyst of total war and other forms of indiscriminate violence. People seem to be able to invent all sorts of rationales for mass killing without feeling the need to cite the will of God. For example, just a few days prior to the September 11 attacks, two young men from the Sacramento area each killed half a dozen people, apparently out of personal revenge. And some of the most appalling atrocities in history have been rooted not in religion per se but rather in racial or class hatred. There may even be a genetic tendency in our species, like that of our chimpanzee relatives, to attack and kill others for no reason except that they aren’t “one of us.” But religious violence can take on a particularly intense and ruthless character, if the objects of that violence are seen as blaspheming or insulting God, as the enemies of God or God’s way narrowly conceived. The problem of indiscriminate holy war is particularly difficult for Judaism, Christianity, and Islam to eliminate from within because it’s so deeply rooted in their scriptures and traditions. The same religious traditions that affirm God to be compassionate, merciful, and just, also include more disturbing claims that promote religious hatred and intolerance, and sadly have provided a rationale for aggressive holy war. We need to face these things head-on. Questioning the moral justification of holy war leads, moreover, to troubling questions about the legitimacy of some basic theological claims and the authority of foundational religious scripture.
I am on here now, deeply saddened by what i have just heard. I am not from america but, as a human, i feel the anguish and disgust of the families that lost sotloff and foley. The atrocious acts of ISIS is inexcusable and someone should nuke them til they glow in the dark. There is no reasoning with people like these. Nothing but gratuitous violence is all they understand. Someone should make another example of them like america did hiroshima. “Eye for an eye” right?
2 Galations 4:4 “The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.”
Love Shines Down says
I do not need to become what I already am; I am God. I am immortal because death is merely an illusion, the physical vehicle is something I inhabit and not something I am. Those that believe themselves to be the physical body are imprisoned by the ego. We do not need God because we are God; God needs nothing because God is everything.
Lucy coincidently is also the street name for a substance which brings you to a realisation of the singularity of all things (according to user reports) apparently according to SWIM she is an exquisite teacher.
The reason all the technological advances do not make a difference is because the one thing that has not advanced in two thousand years is theology, we are being guided by a moralistic system that is from the first century.
As one of my greatest inspirations Neale Donald Walsch put it in his thought provoking book “What God wants”
“When it comes to its most sacred beliefs, our society will not tolerate new ideas that violate doctrine – or even question it. Thus, we are trying to build a twenty-first-century reality with first-century moral, ethical, and spiritual tools. This would be akin to a surgeon stepping into a modern day operating room with a very sharp stone”.
And Jero it’s nice to see your still about on here despite the staunch opposition, keep up the good work my friend.
So, god has blinded my mind to the glorious light of his gospel? Then i guess i should be satanic, the devil doesnt turn anyone away. Atleaste the devil will tell you “i am satan, i will give you untold fortune for your soul” god: “ah, he doesnt believe so i’ll blind him and thus condemn him to hell” so looks like either way, im going to hell according to christians. With a god like that, who needs satan? God’ll put that poor guy right out of business.
Beginning and End says
Here is the passage in question:
The “god of this world” IS SATAN. Not the true and Living God, Yahweh. What the verse is saying is that the Devil has blinded you from the Gospel, which by your own testimony, sadly, seems to be true. Your heart is so set on hatred of God that you could not even tell that this verse was talking about Satan. As I have said many times, as long as your heart is so caught up in pride and enmity to God, you will not understand the Gospel or the Bible.
Love Shines Down says
The thing I like about atheists is they do not threaten to torture you forever with eternal suffering and misery for not being an atheist, I think Christianity could learn allot from this approach.
I read so many hate-filled diatribes on here, from both sides. I came here to read some perspectives with an open mind to what’s being said… But enough. Nothing being said here is helping anyone better accept theses concepts, as commonly delivered here.
Good point love shines down. I never actually thought of it that way but, thats how god works (according to the bible). Instead of god, doing something good to help change peoples minds, he does terrible things then expects the person to come crawling back, begging for forgivness. I’ve said it before, with a god like that, who needs the devil?
Love Shines Down says
Yeah it’s never really struck me as a free will choice, if I said to you, you have two choices “either hand me over your wallet and I will leave you to be or you can keep it but I will impale you slowly so you die in agony screaming and crying, would you say this was a choice or a threat? It’s the same with God and his threats of eternal suffering in hell if you don’t beg Jesus for forgiveness for some sin he made you with. Imagine an inventor guilt tripping his invention because it does what he made it to do…seems craziness to me.
You are right who needs the Devil when you have a God that kills millions including woman, children and babies in his great book?
What is Christianity (and other religions of exclusivity) but a justified reason for the massacre of everyone else but you and the other chosen ones/master race whatever words you want to use that all mean the same thing?
I love the diversity of religious beliefs but the ones that promote ethnic cleansing are extremely dangerous and need to be stood up to. There is also allot good about Christianity and the Bible has much value as a book that contains some great wisdom, but one must avoid taking it too literally, history has always shown humans to be wrong in their beliefs because as humans evolve so does their ability to understand and perceive new truths, grander truths.
As an atheist and likely a person of Science you know this.
Christianity will soon die unless it evolves, there is a place for religion but it’s something to come together over, not fight and bully others into sharing your beliefs by threatening them.
Despite the fact I believe in God, I am happy for you that you chose to be an atheist because it means you are free. I would have it no other way.
Well thank you, loves shines down. You have been the most humane person i have spoken to on here, other then childofra. I came on here looking for proof of the christian god and was met with nothing but hostility from the get go and when i got tired of the evading and ducking of my questions, i got angry, then i was called names and provoked and harassed then i was told that it wasnt name calling or harassment. Just childish nonsense. Its christians like most of these on here that make me not believe in the christian god.
Not to mention the lack of evidence. I dont see how faith is enough. I dont believe in the big bang either. I would need just as much faith to believe in that as i would that an invisible super being created us. How could god create us, then create evil, then blame us for committing the evil that it created?
Love Shines Down says
You are welcome atheist, I think your presence here as an opposing opinion should be welcomed and valued, even if they disagree with your ideas. The thing is the God they follow is hostile and angry so this comes natural to them too, and the sad part is they genuinely believe they are trying to save you from eternal hell and that’s why they are so impassioned to the point of being blind. They don’t understand that the more they push you into their beliefs the more you will pull away.
I believe in a more pantheistic approach to God. It is my belief God is perfection, pure unconditional Love but the only way God can know itself as such is to also create their opposites, for you cannot have light without dark, up without down, good without evil. All of it has to exist or none of it can and this is why I don’t see evil as wrong. I don’t believe in sin, only in the basic principle of treating others how you wish to be treated yourself.
I believe in reincarnation because of all the anecdotal evidence around past lives, NDEs etc and I have also experienced past life and between life hypnotherapy personally.
No two of anything is ever exactly the same, even identical twins so I don’t know why people feel the need to follow another’s path to the divine.
But ultimately I don’t care if someone is atheist, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu or believes in the flying spaghetti monster as long as we can all agree to live in peace and freedom with a fair quality of life for All.
Wow. I am completely humbled by how you handle yourself on here love shines down. You are one of the very few prime examples of a kind hearted person. And i will agree with you on the fact that i too dont care what religious sect you follow, as long as we can just get along, but, unfortuneatly, thats seems impossible. Some people call it god but, i call it morals and having a conscience.
Love Shines Down says
Thanks atheist that is a very kind thing to say. I have very much enjoyed this dialogue, and I feel you are a good and kind hearted individual too.
I have this strong inner feeling that everything will turn out just fine, that the human species is but a young child in terms of its evolution and all this fighting and arguing is just a natural process of growing up, I feel that the same intelligence that governs the seasons, the birth of a star, the movement of celestial bodies and allows trillions of cells to work in harmony to create the body is also within the seeming chaos that our world is engulfed in, that there is a majestic order behind the complete chaos. I believe in miracles and a miracle is all about overcoming the impossible, this is my hope for humankind and I have great faith in us.
Yes the conscience is a good word…the inner voice that guides you to do positive things and to be a shining light in the dark night. It is this that I feel will change the world…once people learn to listen that is.
Maybe together we can be an example of someone who is an atheist and someone that believes in God, speaking with respect and not fighting over our differences but seeing the common bond we share as fellow human beings.
Absolutely. I believe in life and of course science. I think if more people were like yourself and i, the world would be very close to perfect. I know alot of people think of that as a pipe dream but, as believers say and i also believe, all things are possible, no matter the origin of the outcome. If its done right and the outcome is just and fair. I have also enjoyed the things we’ve shared. It feels good to be able to have a senseable conversation with someone one here.
Love Shines Down says
Hi atheist apologies I haven’t written back, we had a friend of the family pass away so I haven’t really been on the net much, at times of death it is an opportunity for reflection and contemplation…it is sometimes hard to understand but I always have faith things happen as and when they should and there is a deeper purpose behind it. I hope you are doing well,
I agree that it is possible and we don’t need to agree on what we believe only that we will not force our beliefs onto others. Peace is more important than the need to be right, the truth is so much of life can be debated because we understand such a tiny fraction of what it is, as Thomas Edison said “We don’t know a millionth of one percent about anything”.
Yes it has been an enjoyable conversation, I will check those forums out.
Love shines down, if you are interested in more of my beliefs you can go to the iggy azalea, the monster energy drink and the god particle forums on here
ACTS 4:12 says
The book “Tortured for Christ” will disagree with that claim
written by Rev.Richard Wurmbrand ( Founder Voice of the Martyrs )
going into very graphic detail the horrors of Russian Christians
being murdered by Communist simply for thier faith in Christ
page 98 of this book states ” in their magazine Nauka i Religia ( Science and Religion )
“Religion is incompatible with communism. it is hostile to it ..
the content of the program of the Communist party is a DEATH BLOW to religion “
What I get a kick out of is all those who come on here and try and argue the Bible, the existence of God , Jesus Christ and The Holy Ghost. You all come to this site to bash it and then you want to be hypocrites by stating this site bashes other sites. I have questioned my own faith one time or another, I have looked into other Faiths to see what all the hype was about. One thing I do take pride in, is knowing I am saved due to Christ Jesus and the Word of God being fulfilled. Another thing I have an interest in is psychology, sociology, and enjoy seeing people with high levels of education looking so ridiculous. You make it all so obvious that you set out to disprove the existence of Jesus, what he did, or are in an attempt to disprove the word of God. But by your actions I think there is more to it!
So my understanding of some areas of psychology, etc., is this that you are all clearly confused with what is going on with yourselves, and your own beliefs. And the main reason you come to this website or try and bash people who have faith in God, is simple you want to be proven wrong! I love people who say I am atheist, sorry but atheism does not exist, agnostic on the other hand does. A person who claims atheism might as well say that they don’t even believe they exist themselves! Why do you care you so called atheists what this site posts anyways, for you to not believe in anything (mainly God and the Devil), then why does it even matter? Why does it matter to you what other people choose to believe? Just because your angry that you yourselves cant understand something so simple “FAITH in JESUS CHRIST”, so let me help you out, its because you use your worldly understanding and are definitely not led by the spirit. Besides what concern is it of yours what other people choose to believe?
Has the joy of people who found Christ upset you? You all (atheists) want to say don’t believe this stuff this website posts, ideals, and argue what ever gets posted. I do not believe everything on this website, but B&E brings up valid points, on many subjects, also speaks many truths, and just because you over thinkers and high doubters cant grasp such an easy concept of a free gift provided By Christ, why does it matter to you if someone else can? Your current ideals are what? That when we die we just become dust, and bones right, that or bodies return to the earth and that is it, its all over form there, we just lay there. So why does it matter what someone else believes? it should not matter to you, what people decided to believe in! I can understand other religions trying to impose false messiah’s and their beliefs systems upon another faiths belief system, I am just curious why atheist do as well? That’s why I lean towards the fact, you come here for a small hope of being proven wrong! if I am wrong about your true intentions then please do tell, Right to the point!
I know I know, just answering my questions will seem very difficult, for your first intentions will be to bash me and my faith, your going to try and make me look like a fool, while not even answering the questions! I have lived a worldly life as well, hell I still sin, I am human and that’s Why I thank my God and Jesus Christ for Saving me and giving such a great gift to me. Note I do not use Jesus as a crutch and say its okay for me to sin hence the word “repent” and I am not Catholic. I am not ashamed to say I am not perfect, I have flaws, and I do not know everything! Yet I just find it interesting for atheists to attack people about their faith, especially when it doesn’t even concern you what other people believe in! What if I was to judge you about your traits or decisions you make or how you decide to live? I find atheist (especially the really intelligent ones) to be of my amusement really. You guys really are just as intelligent as two idiots fighting over what is better a Ford or Chevy! So for not believing in God or anything that you all cant grasp does it really matter, What someone else’s faith is? Besides who cares what I drive, as long as the car works, and is safe for my kids, goes and stops, who really cares what I drive. The ones who try and impress others, are not satisfied with themselves, or are looking for attention.
I know you also hate to see people be misled by a persons beliefs, yet you sit here and try to impose your own beliefs upon others, funny how that works right. Ohh and you’ll never find something your not looking for, and if your overwhelmed from looking then your looking to hard and then get even more confused. Kind of like loosing your car keys, you don’t know there lost until you need them, and the harder you look the more you lose track of where they are. Like I said I used to have my own doubts, but not anymore, and for me to say Jesus Christ, is the only way to get to heaven, well it is!
What other faiths out there have changed the timeline? NONE! have I looked into other faiths yes, did I end up ignoring them yes, they are all false faiths, made to detour people, kind of like a fishing lure, compared to live bait, it just can not be compared. And so we are clear I do not believe in religion, religion corrupts and serves mans purposes, for their own good not Gods. I believe in the doctrine/Gospel that was written, and I believe Jesus did what he did, and I wont doubt that! and for those of you who say well its been re-written, well no duhh, if it wasn’t we would not understand a single thing it said, words back then had different meanings then they do now (passion for instance, meant to suffer, hurt, endure, etc) what does it mean now (intense emotions i.e. love, hate, rage, kindness etc. sexual desires, and intense enthusiasm) And yes I know some people changed it to their time frames for control of their societies, that’s why I don’t read with my flesh but ask God to let his spirit discern it for me, some things man cant change, so that is what I ask to see and come to understand while reading scripture, to know who God really is. and as for other religions, well they all promote peace, your right (false peace), and not all of them promote peace, for those of you out there who believe that (everyone not just the atheist), as an Ex soldier for the US Army ill say that first hand. I had to learn and dealt with what they considered peace, and that was peace by force. So what I am getting to is this. Stop being hypocrites, stop worrying about what another persons faith is, and calling us blind sheep, for having that faith! You come and show how ignorant you really are. I can care less how many degrees you have, where you went to school, you still show extreme pride in your ignorance!
When you atheist come to address (if you choose to do so) what I have said, first Ill ask you to answer my questions, then you can take your swings and try and bash what I had to say, through all the books you read, and what you yourselves have come to find to be real, in your perspectives of life, I welcome your false beliefs with open arms. Trust me I have heard it all, I used to hang out with Satanic worshipers, in fact I have hung out with all crowds, and not one has gotten me to change my faith or beliefs or knowledge of knowing that Jesus Christ is God and saved me. I have a few quotes for you. (sources unknown)
1) God gave us the Gospel to read, study, learn from and live by. kind of like how a school teacher gives their students the work they need for the exam coming up. Well there are three types of students, 1st is the one who chooses to read the material and learn it, live it, understand and know it, and passes the exam. 2nd is the student who glances at it, doesn’t take it serious and hopes to get a passing grade, and the 3rd is the one who disregards the material all together and fails the exam. Well when it comes to life and death there is no retaking the exam, that’s it time is up and your chance is over. So honestly I don’t want to be caught with my pants down. (This one is my own).
2) For those who say well if God did all that and loves us so much well why do we go through what we go through as Christians? Simple, when we are born we are like a piece of drift wood, and for those of us that find Christ we then become a piece of coal. And the reason we go through what we go through and don’t have an easy life and are persecuted for our faith is this. God wants us to become diamonds. And for coal to become diamonds it takes time, pressure and heat. If it was not for all those things the coal would stay a piece of coal, weak and brittle, unlike a diamond that shines and is a very strong substance.
3) A four year old girl can hold up to 3000 grains of sand in a handful, and a grown man can hold up to 10,000 grains in a handful. All the sand grains on the Earth combined still don’t equal up to what an eternity equals to.
So as I said bash me all you want but first answer the questions in which I asked, there is a few but each answer you give should be very easy to give, and not take a lot of time. If all you do is bash what I had to say, or give an excuse on why your not going to answer (excuses are like what? We all have them and they smell like crap) Then all you did is confirm everything I have stated your looking for. And you don’t have to look hard, you just have to have faith and believe That Jesus said who he is, did what he did, and ask Him to come into your heart and admit you are a sinner and need Him in your life. Then you have to live it! I can watch a person skydive on tv 100 times, and claim I know how, but that doesn’t make me a true skydiver. and I can say the same things about Christians who claim to be Christians and don’t repent or even walk according to Gods word or will (these are the people who make the word Christian such a vain word), this is another reason I say I disagree with religion, But Ill claim everyday I am a child of God, and a person who has been saved and redeemed by Jesus Christ, Gods only begotten son who Died for me, and also set an example to live by.
Trans-humanism, or New Age, has its roots back from ancient Babylon, the old mystery religion today embedded in Talmud (gnosticism), Kabalah (magic) and Zohar (“demonology”). These teachings, preserved by “rabbis” teaches enlightenment has to be reached through initiation which amongst other things involves demons and angels, and can be very deadly. They are deceived by satan of course, but its core is also the foundation of many movements today including New Age, Freemasonry (or: sons of lights, which is the real meaning of the french name) and Rosicrucian-ism, Hinduism and so forth. The movie depicting a demon possession after the drug enters the body, then she receives knowledge out of “nothing” (just like the basis for the theory of evolution) and gets super-human abilities. I watched the movie well prepared for this being just another propaganda piece for new age, satan and the new world order where normal humans won’t be worthy to be alive under the rule of these super humans (talmud already has this defined, who that is…) – and since there is no sin, no death and so forth in the new age belief system; and human life merely a natural “accident”, killing doesn’t mean so much to conscience (which is why she isn’t bothered in the movie). The “beast” must be worshiped, or the world system, and satan will give the image of the beast the power to speak (AI?). Oh well, just ranting but powerful stuff. Seek and you will find… God bless you all.
1 Timothy 2:14
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
Adam ate the fruit on purpose just like Christ died on purpose.
Adam became sin for Eve.
Theosophy, a philosophy, is a name contrary to itself, by its beliefs, which the Bible calls as the Doctrine of demons & its origins suggest just that. The very iniquity of ‘ole that rules freemasonry(Zech 5 to the flying scroll & the wickedness(theosophy)in an Ephah that governs it & its associates, Gnosticism to occult is its religion, except to the “Golden Calf”, That ‘ole Lie , come as the Strong Delusion from God, ’cause they have not the Love of the truth , coming against the simplicity of the mind of Christ, needless to say Talmudisms & its Kabbalisms derived/depended on it, for the serpents that one plays with are the very serpents that bite..
Hitler deriving his Fascism (“the head that received a deadly wound is seen healing” today coming out of Spiritual Babylon saying “OM”), is centered on the very superior race theory , thus breeding” Superiority Complexes” in short to “Pride”, the very cause for the fall of that “Enlightened one” & theosophy come denoting that very great fall, even through names like great white brotherhood an Aryan Conspiracy in the belief of an outdated Evolutionary term such as “Survival of the fittest’ against which Christ stood & proved, is but falling into the trap of time when tables become turned. All but to know that Heartlessness, void of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is the basis of the term “Transhuman” & unto its ‘Isms”.
The main character’s name is not just “Lucy”, she has surname too – “Miller”
Thank God for the Transhumanists.
C.D. Carney says
Transhumanism is not a great evil satanic deception. Think for a moment of the promise of transhumanism- fixing genetic malformations, fixing any wound without horrific scarring or crippling amputations, extended (not true immortality but an extension) life, potential colonization of other planets to escape the wars of Earth, the creation of new technologies to fix our broken planet that many believe is in a state of climate change, the ability to overcome our genetic limitations by using our own human hands that God Himself gave us. Where in the Bible does it ever say we cannot strive to become more than what we were before? We create skyscrapers and are they modern towers of Babel? We create antibiotics and interferon to save ourselves from bacterial infections and viral infections! We are creating prosthetic limbs that restore the ability of the cripple to walk and the blind to see! What sin is there in becoming BETTER than we were before? Is it not the very nature of humanity that allowed us to come from being exiles from Paradise to mastering the wilds of Earth and the creation of gleaming cities of light? Our God gave this to us. He made it our mission to craft with our human hands and the drive of humanity. He assigned this task to us and us alone! From greatness are we descended and to greatness we must return! Amen.
Jesus is not God. He is the Son of God, Jehovah. This article contains much reality in its analysis, but at the point of discussion of the true nature of Jesus’ sacrifice, the author is still very much deceived by the teachings of the church, which has twisted many true, valuable and vital biblical teachings.
May people know that you, whose name is Jehovah, You alone are the Most High over all the earth.
Jesus said to them: “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I have not come of my own initiative, but that One sent me.
You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I am.
No man has seen God at any time;……
Thank you for your thoughtful analysis on this topic.
“Freemasonry by Theosophy” even contrary to its name, being the revelation of the Biblical false prophet, is The Gnosticism that corrupts the truth, Gnosticism traced to Eden by the words “Ye be as gods” & Ye shall not die’ & they died for it was a lie, likewise to be as gods does mean as the pagan gods (another lie for there are no gods before The God) which are them of the golden calf which Lie come through the mouths of a mixed multitude( for all Israel is not Israel) “Thy gods that brought thee out of Egypt, by the holy cow itself come out of the “Strange fire” as strange as that written in Daniel “He will not regard the god of his fathers but a ” Strange god’ whose gods, out of the golden calf are the many alters figured in the British Freemasonic Israeli supreme court to the Vishnu in the avatar of the Dagon once fallen before the Ark now reinstated, unto its second & final fall with its hands & heads dismembered unto the Biblical words “He who will destroy the Works of the devil with the brightness of his coming & with the spirit of his mouth will consume—” denotes its hands & head respectively.
Officiating this, comes by the false Prophet “Freemasonry by Theosophy’ , Freemasonry established at the time of QE1 off that ‘ole iniquity ruled by Theosophy through Helena Blavatsky (The darling of hilter unto its second event from Ukraine to India , to its roots) is as QE1 with the eyes of the theosophist again to Zech 5 to the wickedness sealed in an Ephah carried by Two women with stork like wings, denoting spiritual uncleanliness lifted up between heaven & earth is the heavenly like places wherein is wickedness, denotes the Tibetian spirits or familiar spirits that fed the theosophical philosophies through Blavatsky & the two women represent Annie Besant & Alice bailey that carried the wickedness( the false prophet) to spread & establish it on her own pedestral represented by the statue in the name of liberty in New York to eventually wind itself in the “Theosophical Prayer hall in the UN” through deceiving the whole world & one such delusion is Transhumanism, meaning going beyond the stated creation just as its mentor tried to go above & everything called God to find that there is nothing above Him, but to the fall.
Gunner Williams says
I just watched Lucy and to me, this movie promotes what mankind will one day become: gods. God wants us to become like Him. Matthew 5:48 – “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father in Heaven is perfect.”
All Lucy gains the power to do is control elements, see the past and the future, understand what’s inside the minds and hearts of others, absorb knowledge, etc. She is as God – “everywhere” and timeless/eternal.
Psalm 82:6 “ye are gods” — because we are children of a God.
I’m not saying God is any less important to us in our lives, just that he intends for us to become like Him, eternal and omniscient. What else would be the point if we were not to learn and grow to become like our Father (just like an earthly child becomes like his/her earthly parent in both knowledge and capacity)? Who’s to say God doesn’t have a Father? Or siblings? And we are just children of our God of many millennia of Gods?
Satan’s plan or deception wasn’t to tell us to compete with God by becoming gods ourselves. Satan’s plan was to give glory to Satan, to abandon/forget God, and give credit to self or to Satan. Transhumanism is not a satanist ideology — it’s actually God’s eternal plan for all his children: the path to godhood. Transcending humanism (putting off the flesh) to become like God (eternal, all-knowing, all-powerful, understanding, mighty).
Lucy is just a glimpse of man’s journey to godhood.
Agree that a lot of what is happening to Lucy in the film is left untold. But there are explanations that can be drawn as to what is happening in end and through the latter half of the movie. Some of the ideas seem to come from Asian philosophies – Dvaitam, Advaitam, etc. Have a look here : http://www.thisisbarry.com/#!Lucy-2014-Explained/ce4s/56a4cf970cf22a61ccc963b7
Cost Of Mac Brush Set says
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I think what you posted made a lot of sense. However, what about this?
what if you added a little content? I ain’t suggesting your information is not solid, but suppose you added
a headline that grabbed folk’s attention? I mean The Lucy Film: Transhumanism's False Promise
To Become A God | Beginning And End is a little vanilla. You should peek
at Yahoo’s front page and see how they create article headlines
to grab people to click. You might try adding a video or a related pic or two
to get people interested about everything’ve written. Just my opinion, it might make your blog a little bit more interesting.
please pray for me. I am guilty of idolatry/ideolatry and now I am old (me and Jesus in my youth). I don’t know what to do now. I’m guilty!
Blair Brown says
You know,I’ve looked over this site bass-ackwards anf forwards and,for a site so concerned with the transhumanism phenomenon,I’m surprised that no one has made mention of Ms. Johansson’s other Transhumanism-themed work,based on a series of manga which predated the writings of Mr. Kurzweil. I speak,of course,of “The Ghost in the Machine,”written and illustrated by Masamune Shirow,which has become a classic frranchise in the sci-fi vein. It has become the subject of much deep analysis and debate-not to mention awhole slew of movies,comic books,tv shows and the like.
It’s right up your ally.